Is 1/2 off 3rd & 4th passengers a scam?

[skyfire53]

I had booked a suite for my DD and family...the kids sailed free....then about a month ago, they wanted to add my step grandson to the mix...the promo for kids sail free was no longer aval, but the 1/2 off for additional people was...I know its not a scam, because we added him for $244 which was more than the KSF price, but not nearly as much as full fare....:)

[Demonyte]

There is also a trick you can utilize regarding this. You can cancel the 3rd and 4th person out of your room FOR A FULL REFUND up until 14 days before the cruise!

 

 

Not 14 days, but until the 100% cancellation period starts - the exact number of days varies by cruise length, time and cabin category.

[schildiams]

Yes, to be clear, the issue is that they claim to have given me a "PROMO" of "½ off 3rd and 4th" BUT, the prices are exactly the same for 3rd and 4th now, after they confirm that the promo has ended.

My gripe is that this seems to be false advertising, doesn't it?

If there is a full MSRP price, the law generally requires that it be available to compare when a sale is offered.

So, when I booked, it should have stated somewhere that my promo price of $xxx.xx is ½ off the regular price of $xxxx.xx.

Since it did not, there was no way for a consumer like me to ascertain if the "promo" was legit.

It seems deceptive, does it not?

Especially since when the sale ended, and the ½ price promo was no longer available (b/c some exciting new promo is now offered), the 3rd and 4th are the EXACT SAME price as when they were allegedly "½ off."

I even asked if the current 3rd and 4th passenger prices are the "regular" non-sale prices, and was told "yes" via the chat window on the NCL site that popped up as I was looking around.

SO how was mine ½ price off if I paid the same as the non-sale price?

I think that a lot of this is going on, and no one has been able to put a stop to it.

I am going to try.

If anyone has had a similar experience, please let me know. Maybe we can join forces and make things fair.

Edited October 15, 2015 by schildiams

[schildiams]

Regarding canceling the 3rd and 4th, it appears that NCL has changed that.

[SeaShark]

Yes, to be clear, the issue is that they claim to have given me a "PROMO" of "½ off 3rd and 4th" BUT, the prices are exactly the same for 3rd and 4th now, after they confirm that the promo has ended.

My gripe is that this seems to be false advertising, doesn't it?

If there is a full MSRP price, the law generally requires that it be available to compare when a sale is offered.

So, when I booked, it should have stated somewhere that my promo price of $xxx.xx is ½ off the regular price of $xxxx.xx.

Since it did not, there was no way for a consumer like me to ascertain if the "promo" was legit.

It seems deceptive, does it not?

Especially since when the sale ended, and the ½ price promo was no longer available (b/c some exciting new promo is now offered), the 3rd and 4th are the EXACT SAME price as when they were allegedly "½ off."

I even asked if the current 3rd and 4th passenger prices are the "regular" non-sale prices, and was told "yes" via the chat window on the NCL site that popped up as I was looking around.

SO how was mine ½ price off if I paid the same as the non-sale price?

I think that a lot of this is going on, and no one has been able to put a stop to it.

I am going to try.

If anyone has had a similar experience, please let me know. Maybe we can join forces and make things fair.

 

Just for the sake of example, let's say that the MSRP (s=suggested, btw) is $600. I decide I want to offer it for $300.

 

• Can I just sell it for $300 or do I HAVE to advertise that my price is 50% off?
   
  
• Am I doing anything illegal if I sell it for $300 this week with no advertising and then sell it for $300 next week with "50% Off" advertising?
   
  
• Once my "50% Off" advertising ends, am I required to double the price, or can I continue to offer the item for the same $300 price with no advertising?
  

 

 

 

You need to understand how pricing and promotions work in the cruise industry. "Seems like false advertising" is not the same as "false advertising". "Seems deceptive" is not the same as "deceptive". Not understanding ("seems") is not indicative of deception.

 

 

If you don't feel that the price offered is a fair price, then simply do not make the booking. It doesn't get any easier than that.

[S.S.Oceanlover]

Just for the sake of example, let's say that the MSRP (s=suggested, btw) is $600. I decide I want to offer it for $300.

 

• Can I just sell it for $300 or do I HAVE to advertise that my price is 50% off?
   
  
• Am I doing anything illegal if I sell it for $300 this week with no advertising and then sell it for $300 next week with "50% Off" advertising?
   
  
• Once my "50% Off" advertising ends, am I required to double the price, or can I continue to offer the item for the same $300 price with no advertising?
  

 

 

 

You need to understand how pricing and promotions work in the cruise industry. "Seems like false advertising" is not the same as "false advertising". "Seems deceptive" is not the same as "deceptive". Not understanding ("seems") is not indicative of deception.

 

 

If you don't feel that the price offered is a fair price, then simply do not make the booking. It doesn't get any easier than that.

 

When they say 50% off the 3rd and 4th I personally would like to see the original price listed somewhere, not the "brochure" price that doesn't exist.

 

Bill

[dd2355]

When they say 50% off the 3rd and 4th I personally would like to see the original price listed somewhere, not the "brochure" price that doesn't exist.

 

Well you could just double the number you see listed as 1/2-off and arrive at the original price... :D

 

Yes, NCL ought to be listing the brochure price themselves, but it's certainly available for the different main categories via third party TA sites.

 

At the end of the day, the dollars on the bottom line either are acceptable or they're not acceptable. It doesn't matter whether the figures are 1/2 of some made up price that's never charged or 1/10th of some other made up price that's never charged.

[SeaShark]

When they say 50% off the 3rd and 4th I personally would like to see the original price listed somewhere, not the "brochure" price that doesn't exist.

 

Bill

 

Sure...but speaking just for myself, I can't see how it could possibly make a difference.

 

NCL can tell me that 3rd & 4th passengers are $400 which is 50% off.

 

OR

 

NCL can tell me that 3rd and 4th passengers are $400 which is 50% off of the brochure rate of $800.

 

 

 

Either way, the cost to book the 3rd and 4th passenger is $400. It doesn't mean squat to me to see the brochure rate....the only rate I care about is the rate I have to pay at that given time.

[NJ7]

You need to understand how pricing and promotions work in the cruise industry. "Seems like false advertising" is not the same as "false advertising". "Seems deceptive" is not the same as "deceptive". Not understanding ("seems") is not indicative of deception.

 

 

If you don't feel that the price offered is a fair price, then simply do not make the booking. It doesn't get any easier than that.

 

I don't know about that - seems what NCL did hear is very similar to what Sears is having to deal with now on the retail side ----- a number of class action suits have been filed for similar things --- would not be surprised if NCL gets added to the list at some point.

 

Law360, Los Angeles (August 26, 2015, 8:07 PM ET) -- A Sears Holdings Corp. unit was slapped with a putative class action on Wednesday in California federal court accusing the retailer of falsely advertising “phantom markdowns” of products in its stores and online based on original prices that were never actually offered.

The suit claims that Sears Roebuck & Co. continually misled customers into thinking they were receiving discounts by advertising prices for items purportedly on sale by comparing them with false prices that were presented as the regular or original price.

 

“The advertised discounts overstated and did not represent a bona fide price at which defendant formerly sold the merchandise and were nothing more than mere phantom markdowns, because the represented former prices were artificially inflated and were never the original prices for merchandise sold at defendant’s retail stores and/or on its Internet website,” the complaint said.

 

Named plaintiff Joshua Teperson also contends that the original prices cited by Sears did not match prevailing market prices within three months of the allegedly false ads, in violation of California business law.

Edited October 15, 2015 by NJ7

[schildiams]

@NJ17 - thanks for that info. It does seem very similar.

[schildiams]

@pokerpro5

THANK YOU SO MUCH!

Thanks to your info, I was able to successfully rectify this situation today.

It is such a pleasure to receive helpful information, when so many other replies are filled with snarky comments and hate.

I really appreciate your reply :)

THANK YOU again!!!

[SeaShark]

I don't know about that - seems what NCL did hear is very similar to what Sears is having to deal with now on the retail side ----- a number of class action suits have been filed for similar things --- would not be surprised if NCL gets added to the list at some point.

 

Law360, Los Angeles (August 26, 2015, 8:07 PM ET) -- A Sears Holdings Corp. unit was slapped with a putative class action on Wednesday in California federal court accusing the retailer of falsely advertising “phantom markdowns” of products in its stores and online based on original prices that were never actually offered.

The suit claims that Sears Roebuck & Co. continually misled customers into thinking they were receiving discounts by advertising prices for items purportedly on sale by comparing them with false prices that were presented as the regular or original price.

 

“The advertised discounts overstated and did not represent a bona fide price at which defendant formerly sold the merchandise and were nothing more than mere phantom markdowns, because the represented former prices were artificially inflated and were never the original prices for merchandise sold at defendant’s retail stores and/or on its Internet website,” the complaint said.

 

Named plaintiff Joshua Teperson also contends that the original prices cited by Sears did not match prevailing market prices within three months of the allegedly false ads, in violation of California business law.

 

Again....the key is knowing and understanding how the cruise industry...of which Sears is not a part...works. That is the key point of my very first sentence. Try not to get stuck on "seems". Lack of understanding by one party does not equate to deception by another.

 

 

If you really honestly believe NCL is operating in an underhanded way, then simply sue them...plenty of attorneys out there who will work on consignment.

You can start with Jim Walker...if a cruise line is breaking the law, he'd be the first one all over it.

 

 

FWIW....Brochure price is such a basic concept in the industry, that Cruise Critic covers it as point #1 for First Time Cruisers: http://www.cruisecritic.com/articles.cfm?ID=89

 

An EDUCATED consumer is the best customer.

Edited October 16, 2015 by SeaShark

[schildiams]

Hey @seashark, do you realize how hard the cruise lines make it to sue them?

It's by no means "simple."

And by the way, if brochure price is so "basic", why can't anyone find it in print anywhere?

And though a lack of understanding does not equal deception, not allowing a consumer to compare a full price with a discounted price IS deceptive advertising. Ask the better business bureau.

PS Though I am highly educated, I can't possibly compete with your knowledge with 5000 plus posts. (Wow, where do you find the time to do anything else?)

[madeditor]

We are sailing Norwegian Star on Nov. 1. There are three of us in a mini-suite. We are paying for two, except for port fees (for three) and, of course, gratuities. We also got the alcohol package for free for two and soda package for one. (Gratuities are also prepaid on the beverage packages).

[NJ7]

 

If you really honestly believe NCL is operating in an underhanded way, then simply sue them...

 

What is sad is that it will probably come to that at some point and someone will sue them. The airline industry advertised in much the same way for years and over the past ten years they have been subject to much scrutiny over how they market and price through various legal actions which resulted in changes.

 

The cruise industry is not above or any different from any other retail or service provider. I worked in the travel industry for years - back when I started brochure prices were actually included in brochures :). Now most lines only provide "Starting at" rates to consumers - making the actually price a "phantom" for the average consumer. This was done so that they could fluctuate rates based on demand - they used to only be able to lower rates but now if demand is high they can raise their rates - kudos to the industry for taking advantage of basic capitalism principles - but what this has resulted in is a cryptic and complex pricing model that the average vacationer would not and should not have to understand.

 

And I fully agree with you that consumers should be educated - but who is going to assist with that education - not the cruise lines :).

[SeaShark]

Hey @seashark, do you realize how hard the cruise lines make it to sue them?

It's by no means "simple."

And by the way, if brochure price is so "basic", why can't anyone find it in print anywhere?

And though a lack of understanding does not equal deception, not allowing a consumer to compare a full price with a discounted price IS deceptive advertising. Ask the better business bureau.

PS Though I am highly educated, I can't possibly compete with your knowledge with 5000 plus posts. (Wow, where do you find the time to do anything else?)

 

I certainly realize a) how easy it is to sue someone who is obviously breaking the law, and b) how easy it would be to find a lawyer willing to do so...including the one I mentioned. Perhaps you should realize that there is a reason why this common, industry-wide business process is not what it "seems" to be in the eyes of the uneducated consumer.

 

I wouldn't say that anyone can't find the brochure price anywhere...just because YOU can't find it, doesn't mean that anyone else cannot. PLENTY of websites out there that even quote the brochure prices...don't you think they are all getting it from someplace??

 

Finally, kudos on the back-handed compliment. Despite your persistent confusion over such a basic issue, nobody here bothered to denigrate you personally. Remember, YOU are the one seeing information, and YOU are the one seeking help in obtaining that information...insults certainly won't get you what you are looking for. Sure, we could simply say: "Here is a link to the place where you can get your own brochure complete with pricing", but seriously, how could we when we don't have time to do anything but post, right?

 

 

Best of luck in resolving your issue and any additional issues that may come along in the future.

[SeaShark]

What is sad is that it will probably come to that at some point and someone will sue them. The airline industry advertised in much the same way for years and over the past ten years they have been subject to much scrutiny over how they market and price through various legal actions which resulted in changes.

 

The cruise industry is not above or any different from any other retail or service provider. I worked in the travel industry for years - back when I started brochure prices were actually included in brochures :). Now most lines only provide "Starting at" rates to consumers - making the actually price a "phantom" for the average consumer. This was done so that they could fluctuate rates based on demand - they used to only be able to lower rates but now if demand is high they can raise their rates - kudos to the industry for taking advantage of basic capitalism principles - but what this has resulted in is a cryptic and complex pricing model that the average vacationer would not and should not have to understand.

 

And I fully agree with you that consumers should be educated - but who is going to assist with that education - not the cruise lines :).

 

I don't see the pricing model as cryptic and complex.

 

The price is simply what they are offering at a point in time. If you feel the price justifies the offering, then book the cruise. If you don't feel it is a value, then simply move along...find another alternative or wait to book until the price falls within your budget. Simple.

 

"Understanding" pricing does nothing.

 

A cruise can be $500

 

A cruise can be 50% off $1000 ($500)

 

A cruise can be 1/3rd off $750 ($500)

 

Bottom line is that the cruise is $500 and what the "regular" price is doesn't matter. The only price in play is the one that you have to pay. The rest is meaningless advertising meant to confuse the unaware consumer. IOW, it doesn't matter what the price "could" be, it only matters what the price IS.

 

 

And you ALWAYS have the option to simply NOT book. At any price.

[NJ7]

I don't see the pricing model as cryptic and complex.

 

The price is simply what they are offering at a point in time. If you feel the price justifies the offering, then book the cruise. If you don't feel it is a value, then simply move along...find another alternative or wait to book until the price falls within your budget. Simple.

 

"Understanding" pricing does nothing.

 

A cruise can be $500

 

A cruise can be 50% off $1000 ($500)

 

A cruise can be 1/3rd off $750 ($500)

 

Bottom line is that the cruise is $500 and what the "regular" price is doesn't matter. The only price in play is the one that you have to pay. The rest is meaningless advertising meant to confuse the unaware consumer. IOW, it doesn't matter what the price "could" be, it only matters what the price IS.

 

 

And you ALWAYS have the option to simply NOT book. At any price.

 

 

You are correct consumers always have the choice not to purchase - for example for cruises where I have 3 or 4 people booked - I choose cruises where the 'free' promotion was offered and got some great deals.

 

I actually agree with most of your post above - my only issue is when something is being advertised - that changes things a bit legally. And I wouldn't be surprised if this was already sitting on some lawyers desk out in CA (where most class action suits for deceptive advertising are born) - I guess we will all find out in a few years. Lol

[S.S.Oceanlover]

Not 14 days, but until the 100% cancellation period starts - the exact number of days varies by cruise length, time and cabin category.

 

Pokerpro5 actually had the correct information which i didn't know before i read this thread.

 

Bill

[gerapau]

I wonder if those that are so accepting of this would accept it in other situations? Let's say a hotel advertises "stay one night second night is half off" and then saw that the first night was $350 and second was $325 with the excuse that the normal rack rate is $650. Would that be OK? If nothing else it is more than a bit misleading because we have been programmed to think half-off means half-off of the current normal rate that people are paying, not some rack rate that no one ever pays.

[dd2355]

we have been programmed to think half-off means half-off of the current normal rate that people are paying, not some rack rate that no one ever pays.

 

You may have been programmed to think that, but I sure haven't.

 

Maybe I've been around too long to ever take advertising at face value. Maybe studying marketing at university all those years ago rid me of my naiveté. What I do know is that any time I see big flashing letters claiming some great deal, I'm looking for the catch. If I see "half off" I wonder what it's half off of and never assume.

 

The one thing that is never misleading is the bottom line price once you've tracked down and added in all the small-text and footnoted add-ins.

 

Yes it'd be a lovely world if you could trust the marketing messages, we'd all sit around singing kumbaya basking in the glow of our saved money. That isn't the world we live in though and it's improbable it would become so in our lifetimes, so best to deal with the world we do live in today. And that means basically ignoring that the marketing says and stick to the numbers.

[dd2355]

I wonder if those that are so accepting of this would accept it in other situations? Let's say a hotel advertises "stay one night second night is half off" and then saw that the first night was $350 and second was $325 with the excuse that the normal rack rate is $650. Would that be OK?

To answer the specific question:

Would it be okay? It wouldn't bother me at all. I consider such marketing claims superfluous and irrelevant. The room is priced at $675 for two nights. I don't care how they arrived at that number. All I care about is how that the total number (plus any add-ins) compares to other properties I'm considering for that particular time and destination while also factoring in any value adjustment appropriate for differing amenities and other non-monetary details.

[S.S.Oceanlover]

You may have been programmed to think that, but I sure haven't.

 

Maybe I've been around too long to ever take advertising at face value. Maybe studying marketing at university all those years ago rid me of my naiveté. What I do know is that any time I see big flashing letters claiming some great deal, I'm looking for the catch. If I see "half off" I wonder what it's half off of and never assume.

 

The one thing that is never misleading is the bottom line price once you've tracked down and added in all the small-text and footnoted add-ins.

 

Yes it'd be a lovely world if you could trust the marketing messages, we'd all sit around singing kumbaya basking in the glow of our saved money. That isn't the world we live in though and it's improbable it would become so in our lifetimes, so best to deal with the world we do live in today. And that means basically ignoring that the marketing says and stick to the numbers.

 

It's a shame we weren't all lucky enough to go to university and study marketing. Then we'd all be able to see through this not so transparent shell game.

 

Unfortunately not everybody is like you and will jump when they see the words "sale" or "50% off".

 

My father had a store and put a sign in the window stating, "going out FOR business" not going out of business but you should have seen the extra foot traffic that created with people thinking they were going to get a bargain.

 

He also sold womens tops for $8.00 or 3 for $$25.00. Again a lot of people bout the 3 thinking they were saving money.

 

BTW I didn't agree with his tactics either.

 

Bill

[dd2355]

It's a shame we weren't all lucky enough to go to university

 

Luck had nothing to do with it. I sacrificed and busted my azz working while in school paying for my business education of which marketing was one part. No handouts here, so get off your high horse and stick your condescension.

 

No university education is required to develop the basic skill of critical thinking that is so sorely lacking in today's society.

 

I can understand some kid getting misled by signs like the one your father's store displayed, but there's no excuse for any grown adult to do so. Any who were inattentive enough to be fooled are the ones at fault. Yep, the sign is misleading if one doesn't pay attention, but there's a phrase about fools and their money. Caveat Emptor is a phrase that's been around a very long time.

[SeaShark]

I wonder if those that are so accepting of this would accept it in other situations? Let's say a hotel advertises "stay one night second night is half off" and then saw that the first night was $350 and second was $325 with the excuse that the normal rack rate is $650. Would that be OK? If nothing else it is more than a bit misleading because we have been programmed to think half-off means half-off of the current normal rate that people are paying, not some rack rate that no one ever pays.

 

I think DD2355 gave a pretty good answer, so I won't elaborate on that too much. However, I have to agree...the first thing I'd always ask is "Half off what exactly?"

 

You have to learn to ignore the marketing and pay attention to the math instead...and your question provides a perfect example of why.

 

 

Using your example, let's examine the issue:

 

What we know is that the normal rack rate is $650.

Price for night one is $350.

Price for night two is $325.

 

The marketing hype is "stay one night second night is half off".

 

The unknowing consumer would take that to mean that since night one is $350, that night two should only be $175.

 

In this were actually the case, the consumer would be paying the full price of $350 for night one...which is a 0% savings. On the second night, the consumer would be saving 50%. The total savings for the two nights would be 25%.

 

 

However, in the example you provide, the consumer is NOT paying 100% the first night. In this example, the consumer is saving 46% ($300/$650) the first night. Further, the consumer is saving 50% the second night ($325/$650). This means that the consumer saves a grand total of 48% over the two nights.

 

 

So...Saving 48% is certainly better than saving 25%, right? :D

 

 

Well....not in this case. :eek: In BOTH cases, the consumer pays the exact same amount of $675 for the two rooms. The ONLY difference is in the marketing hype. Half off the second night only saves 25% in total...while half off of the rack rate saves 48% in total.

 

Only the math speaks the truth....Two nights in the room costs $675.00. EXACTLY the same amount in both examples.