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Power Strips Confiscated?

Band1Mom

By Band1Mom,
in Royal Caribbean International

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Clarea

Clarea

Posted
Posted (edited)
I'm not quite sure what you mean by "always-on" systems, but I'll explain in my limited tech-speak, and maybe you can decipher if you need more info. :o

 

Critical systems use a large 24v battery bank power source as the 2nd backup (the first being the emergency generator). Think a north of ten thousand ampere hours, with a trickle charger on the bank. This power will be connected to the equipment through a switchover circuit, so that if the mains voltage is lost, the 24v power is supplied.

 

Now, for the main servers onboard, and even some of the Engine Control Room interface computers, there will be UPS's dedicated to each. These are, I believe, what you mean by "always on", as they are the primary source of power for these computers, and the inverter is always providing power to the computers and trickle charging the batteries. These will have redundancy in their input, being fed from both main power and emergency power. If either input power fails, the UPS switches to battery.

 

These UPS's are specially designed for marine application. We've tried to buy regular US business type UPS equipment, but it looks for 110v hot to ground, while shipboard only has 55v hot to ground, so it constantly considers the power supply to have failed, and switches to battery. Being a specialty market, they are about 3 times as expensive, of course.

By "always on", I mean there is no switchover time. The inverters are always being powered, like you mentioned in the third paragraph.

 

Most of the UPS systems I have used also have surge protection built in, so that fact that you have to buy special marine units answers my question. I also have to use equipment that switches between utility power and standalone generators, but I suspect that the main difference is that our generators don't have a floating ground.

Edited by clarea
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chengkp75

chengkp75

Posted
Posted
By "always on", I mean there is no switchover time. The inverters are always being powered, like you mentioned in the third paragraph.

 

Most of the UPS systems I have used also have surge protection built in, so that fact that you have to buy special marine units answers my question. I also have to use equipment that switches between utility power and standalone generators, but I suspect that the main difference is that our generators don't have a floating ground.

 

Yes, that pesky floating ground is the whole problem with shipboard electricity. If someone could figure out a way to keep electrolysis from happening between steel and other metals when in sea water, we could do away with the floating ground.

 

Systems that are on the large battery banks will have a switchover time, but they typically have coin or small cylinder batteries to keep the PLC or CPU up during the transition.

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knittinggirl

knittinggirl

Posted
Posted
I wouldn't worry about breaking the rules so much, but I worry about cruisers' safety when using a surge protector. Thermal runaway, and the potential for fire is very real.

 

Most of the cruise lines state that power strips are not allowed, just to simplify it for the security screening process, so the staff don't have to have a marine engineer's license or an electrical engineering degree to figure out if a device is a surge protector. Only Carnival specifically addresses surge protectors in their list of prohibited items. Many cruise lines have power strips and extension cords for use if you ask for one. They may take the squid, or they may not. It is a lot like the water/soda thing, it varies. But for your safety, I recommend leaving the surge protector at home.

While they're refitting the cabins, adding more cabins, and whatever, why don't they add more outlets? If we had enough outlets, we wouldn't need to being our dangerous power items.

 

While we're on the subject of outlets, many rooms have plugs in the bathrooms only for rechargeable shavers. Can we use these to charge our batteries or devices? I would guess the shavers only was to discourage power hogs like hair dryers.

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chengkp75

chengkp75

Posted
Posted
While they're refitting the cabins, adding more cabins, and whatever, why don't they add more outlets? If we had enough outlets, we wouldn't need to being our dangerous power items.

 

While we're on the subject of outlets, many rooms have plugs in the bathrooms only for rechargeable shavers. Can we use these to charge our batteries or devices? I would guess the shavers only was to discourage power hogs like hair dryers.

 

Mainly its a cost/benefit decision. They don't see any benefit to their bottom line, so why expend the cost. Some of the newer ships, like Oasis have a multi-outlet "ball" on the desk, so there is some movement there, and I've heard that Quantum has USB ports at the desk?

 

The outlet in the bath is part of the light fixture, so yes, plugging a high current device like a hair dryer would overload the wiring. You could charge electronics from these, as most wall warts only draw 1-2 amps, but remember that as part of the light fixture, when the light is off, the outlet isn't powered.

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knittinggirl

knittinggirl

Posted
Posted
Mainly its a cost/benefit decision. They don't see any benefit to their bottom line, so why expend the cost. Some of the newer ships, like Oasis have a multi-outlet "ball" on the desk, so there is some movement there, and I've heard that Quantum has USB ports at the desk?

 

The outlet in the bath is part of the light fixture, so yes, plugging a high current device like a hair dryer would overload the wiring. You could charge electronics from these, as most wall warts only draw 1-2 amps, but remember that as part of the light fixture, when the light is off, the outlet isn't powered.

A lot of the ships were built before the devices became so popular.
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chengkp75

chengkp75

Posted
Posted
Does anyone have any recommendation for something similar to the Belkin w/o a surge protector? I mean I want to charge an Ipad and add a couple of outlets.

 

I've gone direct to the manufacturer for this item, and it is not surge protected. Little larger than Belkin, but does the same thing, for a whole lot less:

 

http://www.walmart.com/ip/44909187?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=0&adid=22222222227032526090&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=64528511216&wl4=&wl5=pla&wl6=111304883336&veh=sem

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lv2bcruzin

lv2bcruzin

Posted
Posted (edited)

chengkp75 - Do you have a list of recommendations?

 

I've traveled with a powerstrip with surge protection on every single cruise I've been on without issue of confiscation or failure/fire. As I'm sure many people have. So, what data is there to backup that this is a valid threat (specifically on a cruise ship). I mean, I agree it could happen and it's better safe than sorry especially since it's not difficult to mitigate the risk with the simple act of not taking one. But, I'm not sure what the probability really is. It seems there is a bigger chance of causing a fire due to cigarettes and cigars and the main reason those are becoming less and less allowed is because of the non-smoker's experience not because of being fire hazards.

 

I haven't seen a single article on this being an issue on cruise ships either (granted I have not done any type of exhaustive search).

 

I am definitely interested in your recommendations as opposed to adding to what can easily become hundreds of "is this one ok" and "what if" posts.

Edited by lv2bcruzin
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FLACRUISER99

FLACRUISER99

Posted
Posted
I've gone direct to the manufacturer for this item, and it is not surge protected. Little larger than Belkin, but does the same thing, for a whole lot less:

 

http://www.walmart.com/ip/44909187?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=0&adid=22222222227032526090&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=64528511216&wl4=&wl5=pla&wl6=111304883336&veh=sem

Thanks, and it's in stock at my local WM.
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chengkp75

chengkp75

Posted
Posted
chengkp75 - Maybe I missed this somewhere, but have you actually recommended any products for use for those who need additional outlets?

 

I've traveled with a powerstrip with surge protection on every single cruise I've been on without issue of confiscation or failure/fire. As I'm sure many people have. So, what data is there to backup that this is a valid threat (specifically on a cruise ship). I mean, I agree it could happen and it's better safe than sorry especially since it's not difficult to mitigate the risk with the simple act of not taking one. But, I'm not sure what the probability really is.

 

I haven't seen a single article on this being an issue on cruise ships either (granted I have not done any type of exhaustive search).

 

I am definitely interested in your recommendations as opposed to adding to what can easily become hundreds of "is this one ok" and "what if" posts.

 

Well, there is the USCG Safety Notice, and the NFPA UL 1449. The USCG Safety Notice is written about two fires on cargo ships, but you'll just have to take my word for it that there is no difference between the wiring of a cruise ship or a cargo ship. The grounding systems are the same, because they both face the same problem when you introduce stray electrical current into the steel hull in sea water: electrolysis. NFPA UL 1449, if you buy a copy of it, lists the additional protective devices required in a surge protector when used in impedence grounded systems, which while not called out specifically as marine, that is what they are. The post by cavediving that is referenced in post #7 has descriptions of the problems caused when using surge protectors onboard ships by a professor of marine engineering at Texas A&M. Not sure what more I can give, and I don't know that there has been a documented case of this kind of fire on a cruise ship, but the lines' insurance companies are interested enough to require the recent changes in policy.

 

I feel strongly enough about this, that I have researched a lot of products, not only on consumer websites, but the manufacturer's websites, and have even gone to e-mailing the manufacturer if I cannot get definitive answers. Two products I have found that are not surge protected are:

 

The above referenced uber product, I am not sure of any other uber product, but this specific one is fine.

 

Zilu 5 USB port hub. This, and this one only, from Zilu is not surge protected. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00V33RCTU

 

Just about any power strip (outlets only) from Home Depot, Walmart, etc., in the $3-5 range (including one from Belkin) are fine.

 

This Monster brand power strip is okay: http://www.amazon.com/Monster-MP-OTG400-BK-Outlets/dp/B000F9YN2M/ref=sr_1_72?ie=UTF8&qid=1453249337&sr=8-72&keywords=power+strip

 

Powercube-usa has a product that is multi-outlet and multi-USB, without a surge protector, but it doesn't get very good ratings for sturdiness.

 

I checked the manufacturer's site on this: http://amzn.com/B003TXRTNG, it is okay.

 

I make no recommendation as to any of the above products performance (sturdiness, usability, convenience, etc.), as I have never actually used any of them (except the Home Depot $3 power strip).

 

I've answered on several threads over the last couple months about this, and if you search those threads (via my posts), you'll see many products that I've researched that are in fact surge protected when not obviously advertised as such.

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motherof

motherof

Posted
Posted
No problem if it's battery operated. However, they may not like it if it has an electric cord.

My battery-operated fan landed my luggage in the naughty room. Once I showed them that it was battery operated, I was allowed to keep it.

 

On the next cruise I asked what I could do to prevent this from happening again, and was told a fan would be provided. Wonderful!

 

However, when I arrived in the room, there was no fan. I asked the cabin steward about it, and he promised to look into it. When DH and I returned from dinner, there was a huge floor fan at the foot of the bed. Thank goodness we had a Junior Suite -- we would have had to keep moving it to get around the room otherwise.

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Clarea

Clarea

Posted
Posted
My battery-operated fan landed my luggage in the naughty room. Once I showed them that it was battery operated, I was allowed to keep it.

 

On the next cruise I asked what I could do to prevent this from happening again, and was told a fan would be provided. Wonderful!

 

However, when I arrived in the room, there was no fan. I asked the cabin steward about it, and he promised to look into it. When DH and I returned from dinner, there was a huge floor fan at the foot of the bed. Thank goodness we had a Junior Suite -- we would have had to keep moving it to get around the room otherwise.

Nice to know, I had not realized the cruise line would provide a fan.

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jackson bernard

jackson bernard

Posted
Posted
chengkp75 - Do you have a list of recommendations?

 

I've traveled with a powerstrip with surge protection on every single cruise I've been on without issue of confiscation or failure/fire. As I'm sure many people have. So, what data is there to backup that this is a valid threat (specifically on a cruise ship). I mean, I agree it could happen and it's better safe than sorry especially since it's not difficult to mitigate the risk with the simple act of not taking one. But, I'm not sure what the probability really is. It seems there is a bigger chance of causing a fire due to cigarettes and cigars and the main reason those are becoming less and less allowed is because of the non-smoker's experience not because of being fire hazards.

 

I haven't seen a single article on this being an issue on cruise ships either (granted I have not done any type of exhaustive search).

 

I am definitely interested in your recommendations as opposed to adding to what can easily become hundreds of "is this one ok" and "what if" posts.

 

 

Haven't you heard there's a spate of surge protectors blowing up on ships all the time.? LOL.

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FLACRUISER99

FLACRUISER99

Posted
Posted
Well, there is the USCG Safety Notice, and the NFPA UL 1449. The USCG Safety Notice is written about two fires on cargo ships, but you'll just have to take my word for it that there is no difference between the wiring of a cruise ship or a cargo ship. The grounding systems are the same, because they both face the same problem when you introduce stray electrical current into the steel hull in sea water: electrolysis. NFPA UL 1449, if you buy a copy of it, lists the additional protective devices required in a surge protector when used in impedence grounded systems, which while not called out specifically as marine, that is what they are. The post by cavediving that is referenced in post #7 has descriptions of the problems caused when using surge protectors onboard ships by a professor of marine engineering at Texas A&M. Not sure what more I can give, and I don't know that there has been a documented case of this kind of fire on a cruise ship, but the lines' insurance companies are interested enough to require the recent changes in policy.

 

I feel strongly enough about this, that I have researched a lot of products, not only on consumer websites, but the manufacturer's websites, and have even gone to e-mailing the manufacturer if I cannot get definitive answers. Two products I have found that are not surge protected are:

 

The above referenced uber product, I am not sure of any other uber product, but this specific one is fine.

 

Zilu 5 USB port hub. This, and this one only, from Zilu is not surge protected. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00V33RCTU

 

Just about any power strip (outlets only) from Home Depot, Walmart, etc., in the $3-5 range (including one from Belkin) are fine.

 

This Monster brand power strip is okay: http://www.amazon.com/Monster-MP-OTG400-BK-Outlets/dp/B000F9YN2M/ref=sr_1_72?ie=UTF8&qid=1453249337&sr=8-72&keywords=power+strip

 

Powercube-usa has a product that is multi-outlet and multi-USB, without a surge protector, but it doesn't get very good ratings for sturdiness.

 

I checked the manufacturer's site on this: http://amzn.com/B003TXRTNG, it is okay.

 

I make no recommendation as to any of the above products performance (sturdiness, usability, convenience, etc.), as I have never actually used any of them (except the Home Depot $3 power strip).

 

I've answered on several threads over the last couple months about this, and if you search those threads (via my posts), you'll see many products that I've researched that are in fact surge protected when not obviously advertised as such.

Would you be OK with me posting this information on another Board (not CC)?
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lv2bcruzin

lv2bcruzin

Posted
Posted
Be my guest. As I say, I can't vouch for the utility, suitability, or strength of any unit, I'm just reporting on which are not surge protected.

 

Legal disclaimer over. :D

Sorry to threadjack real quick, but I just noticed your avatar. One of my best friends went to Kings Point ('96 - '00). He became a Seahawk pilot and is now up for Commander this year. Small world.

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  • 2 months later...
poncho1973

poncho1973

Posted
Posted

So what exactly can you look for to tell you if your device is good/bad?

 

 

The link says UL Marine 1449 is made up, so what are you asking the manufacturers or looking for specifically in the manual?

 

 

I have several models of Anker USB multi-ports and would like to know if any of them are good or bad.

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