Beware, No Power Strips Allowed

[NurseDave]

Thanks for your clarification.

 

Please note that I have greatly enjoyed your many expert posts for years regarding ships and their operation - but in this case, I have to respectfully question this - "policy" or not.

 

Any logic behind the rule that excludes surge protection devices is beyond foolish. These are specifically designed to prevent fires, protect costly electronics, and they simply fail intentionally in case of a power surge (no power at all if any surge is received - providing added safety).

 

Undermining those benefits by providing a simple power strip eradicates those safety points, not to mention putting cameras, computers, tablets, and other expensive electronics at great risk.

 

The fine print in the cruising documents already waives any liability by the cruise line for these kinds of electronics onboard (unless you have your own separate insurance), so making things more risky to the passenger seems quite irresponsible.

 

We'll take our chances bringing and using them.

 

You've just proven you haven't read a thing posted by the experts.

 

To quote a TV personality "I reject your reality and substitute my own"

[chengkp75]

And whether you agree with me or not, you're on the other end of the internet, so there's nothing I can do about it, but I will tell you that this is one topic that I will champion harder than any "smoking on the balcony", or "can I bring my steam iron onboard", or any topic about passenger safety, because this is a hidden killer that can cause an emergency without warning.

 

I believe in this so strongly, that I have researched a number of products going as far as e-mailing the manufacturer to get the answer as to whether a particular power strip or USB hub, or even a whole product line are surge protected. And you know what? I don't even use any of these. I use a single "wall wart" provided with my phone/e-reader. So all of this research is for the CC membership, not me. Check my posts, and you can find several where I've recommended products that were not surge protected, but with a disclaimer that I've never used them nor do I vouch for their utility. Just that they are safe to use.

[CRUISEFAN0001]

While what you say about surge protectors is correct for shoreside use, particularly in the US, where the neutral and ground wires are at the same potential, all ships are wired as "wye" connected, where the "neutral" is not at the same potential, as described in the USCG Safety Notice.

I respect that information, but still don't see it as justification for that practice. It puts electronics at risk...period.

And, no, surge protectors do not "simply fail intentionally" when a power surge is detected. You fail to understand how a surge protector works.

Actually, I have extensive knowledge of how they work, and while your details on their circuitry is fundamentally correct, they don't apply across the universe of such devices - there are actually more than a dozen variations on how those devices are designed - they are not all alike. Some literally fail and prevent any electricity to pass by terminating the power circuit via a limited voltage diode. Others trigger an internal "circuit breaker", while still others leverage a semiconductor to halt the surge temporarily (as you correctly stated). There are even units that place a simple microfuse in line with the ground.

 

All that said, I stand by my position that any company (ship or land-based) that knowingly prevents proper protection for expense electronics is grossly negligent towards its customers' property.

[CRUISEFAN0001]

Thank you for posting what I was thinking . After all , isn't the point of surge devices to protect the device ?

And how does a surge protector lead to fires ? My devices at home "clean" the power and if necessary flick off .

 

 

Brilliant ! :D

Bingo.

 

Regardless of the power source, electricity is routinely inconsistent and "unclean". Amazing how companies that sell variations of surge protection and power cleaners offer million dollar electronics protection warranties (including fire protection that requires them to be used 100% of the time), yet what we're being told is that the power on a ship is drastically different enough to avoid using any such protection.

 

It's absolutely irresponsible to tell or expect someone to use power "as is" for expensive electronics - anytime, anywhere.

[novicetraveller]

I love those replies.... "I brought one and it didn't get taken" Good for you. I've also not taken lotion out of my bag when going through TSA screening and not had anything said to me. Does that change the rules? Nope. Should you be telling anyone it's fine since they didn't stop you? Nope.

If you read my response, I did say the issue may be linked to surge protected power strips, as they are forbidden on the ship. Normal power strips, unless the rules have changed, should be ok.

[hapster85]

Funny how people seem to know how many outlets everyone else needs.

 

It appears to stem from the assumption that the only thing one could possibly need, is to charge various devices. Regardless, if you have need, use one approved for shipboard use.

[chengkp75]

I respect that information, but still don't see it as justification for that practice. It puts electronics at risk...period.

Actually, I have extensive knowledge of how they work, and while your details on their circuitry is fundamentally correct, they don't apply across the universe of such devices - there are actually more than a dozen variations on how those devices are designed - they are not all alike. Some literally fail and prevent any electricity to pass by terminating the power circuit via a limited voltage diode. Others trigger an internal "circuit breaker", while still others leverage a semiconductor to halt the surge temporarily (as you correctly stated). There are even units that place a simple microfuse in line with the ground.

 

All that said, I stand by my position that any company (ship or land-based) that knowingly prevents proper protection for expense electronics is grossly negligent towards its customers' property.

 

So, every shipping company in the world, operating every one of the 2 billion tons of shipping, every day, are negligent? And every classification society that underwrite the insurance for every single one of those billions of tons of shipping are negligent for certifying those ships as safe, without a single surge protector? I wonder how we manage to move 75% of the worlds gross production without hitting each other due to failed electronics because they didn't install a $40 surge protector? I'm sorry for the sarcasm, but I just can't get my head around this.

 

Anyway, I recommend you try the same experts as cavediving did for his research, and maybe contact the USCG Cruise Ship National Center of Expertise, here: csncoe@uscg.mil, and address it to LCDR Eric Jesionowski, the National Technical Advisor. Or try the NFPA at nfpa.org. There is also ASTM F1507 which is the standard for surge suppressors used for shipboard use. Why would they have a separate standard if shipboard use was the same as shoreside?

 

If you have an electrical background, as it seems you do, if you know how surge protectors work, then they should be able to solve your dilemma over why surge protectors are not safe onboard ships.

 

I would also like to correct my earlier post, where I say marine systems are wye, when in fact they are delta.

[chengkp75]

Bingo.

 

Regardless of the power source, electricity is routinely inconsistent and "unclean". Amazing how companies that sell variations of surge protection and power cleaners offer million dollar electronics protection warranties (including fire protection that requires them to be used 100% of the time), yet what we're being told is that the power on a ship is drastically different enough to avoid using any such protection.

 

It's absolutely irresponsible to tell or expect someone to use power "as is" for expensive electronics - anytime, anywhere.

 

Gee, and here I thought those wall warts and power bricks on the electronics converted AC to DC. Those by nature have filtering circuits. You can find any number of articles about the boondoggle of surge protection and power filters that are truly not needed with today's electronics. In years past, yes, but the power supplies for the electronics are far better every couple of years, and the only thing you need to protect against are large voltage spikes from blown transformers and lightning.

[CRUISEFAN0001]

So, every shipping company in the world, operating every one of the 2 billion tons of shipping, every day, are negligent?

That's an expansion and broad translation of my point.

 

If you're stating that all ships operate without any surge protection in their circuitry, including controls, motors, cabin televisions, and more important...control room electronics...then that indeed introduces risk into the electrical power ecosystem. Allowing it, supporting it as a shipping standard makes it accepted...but not necessarily right..from a pure technology best practices standpoint. There is no more risk using a surge protector onboard that powering up the cabin TV...in fact...a case could be made the TV has a greater potential (albeit miniscule) of being a potential fire hazard.

 

I understand that the ship power ecosystem is different than land-based power sources and distribution. It's also different in automobiles...yet...power protection is commonplace in the latest auto electronics include expensive GPS, audio systems, and computer-based technology. While generally DC power based...there are some AC conversion electronics onboard some automobiles.

 

On aircraft, it is now also commonplace to have power located at seats, without any issue to use surge protection inline with expensive computers, tablets, etc.

 

If the shipping industry beats to a different drummer...that's OK of course. Yet expecting passengers to risk their electronics on unprotected power when the rest of the world prescribes such protection remains irresponsible despite those ship-based practices.

[cruisinfanatic]

must be pretty safe as I've never heard reported any instance of someone's expensive electronic device being "fried"

[jagsfan]

This is the most stultifying thread I ever exposed my tired brain to. I made a valiant effort to absorb all of this vast knowledge and erudite rebuttals, because fire at sea is horrifying. However, I'm crying uncle.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums mobile app

[chengkp75]

That's an expansion and broad translation of my point.

 

If you're stating that all ships operate without any surge protection in their circuitry, including controls, motors, cabin televisions, and more important...control room electronics...then that indeed introduces risk into the electrical power ecosystem. Allowing it, supporting it as a shipping standard makes it accepted...but not necessarily right..from a pure technology best practices standpoint. There is no more risk using a surge protector onboard that powering up the cabin TV...in fact...a case could be made the TV has a greater potential (albeit miniscule) of being a potential fire hazard.

 

I understand that the ship power ecosystem is different than land-based power sources and distribution. It's also different in automobiles...yet...power protection is commonplace in the latest auto electronics include expensive GPS, audio systems, and computer-based technology. While generally DC power based...there are some AC conversion electronics onboard some automobiles.

 

On aircraft, it is now also commonplace to have power located at seats, without any issue to use surge protection inline with expensive computers, tablets, etc.

 

If the shipping industry beats to a different drummer...that's OK of course. Yet expecting passengers to risk their electronics on unprotected power when the rest of the world prescribes such protection remains irresponsible despite those ship-based practices.

 

What you are missing is the fact that there are surge protectors designed for shipboard use. What are dangerous are consumer surge protectors, because they do not have the necessary safety features required to be used in shipboard applications. The reason that marine surge protectors are not used is that the safety features are extremely costly and have been shown not to be required. I don't know what kind of voltage surge is more than a direct lightning hit, but as I say, not only didn't anything fail, but nothing even hiccuped, and I've experienced this more than once. Why? Because the lightning goes from the steel of the hull to the sea. But surely, isn't that the ground, just like in my home when it gets hit by lightning? No. The ground wire in shipboard systems is not attached to the hull as a conductor, it is wired all the way back to the neutral connection of the generator windings. The electrical system is insulated from the hull to prevent electrolysis due to the presence of different metals and sea water. This is the same condition you describe in aircraft, where the skin of the plane, which is struck by lightning on occasion, is insulated from the electrical system.

 

If you read the USCG Safety Notice, you will see a mention on the last page about UPS systems:

 

"It should be noted that related issues (mismatches between Delta or WYE systems) have been reported with 120 VAC

Uninterrupted Power Supplies purchased ashore and used onboard vessels. Such devices should be selected to match

the power supply configuration."

 

Now, why would a UPS system have a problem with a shipboard wiring system? Because it looks at the voltage between the hot and the ground, and if it is 120v, then it says power is normal, and continues to pass current to the consumers. However, in a shipboard delta configuration, as noted in the Safety Notice, there is only 60v between the hot and the ground, so the UPS says the voltage has failed and shuts off supply and the unit switches to battery. This is why we cannot use consumer UPS systems onboard ship, but have to get marine ones that recognize the different power supply.

 

As for comparing the TV to a surge protector, the TV does not have MOV's placed across the conductors, and this is by far the most common configuration of consumer surge protector.

 

So, even the ASTM is only following "industry accepted standards" when they create a separate standard for marine surge protectors? The American Bureau of Ships does not require any surge protector anywhere on a ship, the USCG, which uses ASTM and UL standards does not require surge protectors, all these are wrong?

 

As a final thought, if surge protectors were perfectly safe, what is the motivation for banning them, as Carnival has specifically done? Is it just to fry the guests' electronics and then gloat over the fact that the ticket contract doesn't allow for damages? You can be assured of one thing, they wouldn't have gotten into a situation where they tick off a lot of passengers if it wasn't driven by insurance. The class societies and the flag states are behind this, for one reason, to save money by not having fires.

Edited March 24, 2016 by chengkp75

[MNfamilycruiser]

And whether you agree with me or not, you're on the other end of the internet, so there's nothing I can do about it, but I will tell you that this is one topic that I will champion harder than any "smoking on the balcony", or "can I bring my steam iron onboard", or any topic about passenger safety, because this is a hidden killer that can cause an emergency without warning.

 

I believe in this so strongly, that I have researched a number of products going as far as e-mailing the manufacturer to get the answer as to whether a particular power strip or USB hub, or even a whole product line are surge protected. And you know what? I don't even use any of these. I use a single "wall wart" provided with my phone/e-reader. So all of this research is for the CC membership, not me. Check my posts, and you can find several where I've recommended products that were not surge protected, but with a disclaimer that I've never used them nor do I vouch for their utility. Just that they are safe to use.

Thank you! I was searching for information on European outlets when I ran across this thread. I will make sure we do not use anything with a surge protector from now on. :D

[payitforward]

I was always under the impression that extension cords were the problem, and brought along a wall outlet 1 - 3 converter. However, if I were to take what is said on this thread at face value, I would be able to bring an extension cord as long as there's no surge protector. That doesn't make sense either as unreliable/old extension cords always pose a risk. So, am I to understand that something that plugs directly into the wall and does not have a surge protector would be acceptable?

 

So the following should be acceptable?

 

http://www.amazon.com/USB-Wall-Charger-Portable-Tab-Black/dp/B015AHUVV0/ref=sr_1_11?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1458859249&sr=1-11&keywords=Extra+outlet+and+USB+charger

 

http://www.amazon.com/GE-Grounded-Adapter-Spaced-Six-Outlet-Tap/dp/B0009HKEXM/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1458859421&sr=1-1&keywords=Extra+outlet

 

http://www.amazon.com/Triple-Plug-Outlet-Adapter-Switch/dp/B00PXHOP3S/ref=sr_1_25?ie=UTF8&qid=1458859870&sr=8-25&keywords=outlet+adapter

 

http://www.amazon.com/GE-14522-Three-Outlet-2-USB-Adapter/dp/B00HCMPUB8/ref=sr_1_103?s=lamps-light&ie=UTF8&qid=1458860325&sr=1-103&keywords=outlet+adapter

[chengkp75]

I was always under the impression that extension cords were the problem, and brought along a wall outlet 1 - 3 converter. However, if I were to take what is said on this thread at face value, I would be able to bring an extension cord as long as there's no surge protector. That doesn't make sense either as unreliable/old extension cords always pose a risk. So, am I to understand that something that plugs directly into the wall and does not have a surge protector would be acceptable?

 

So the following should be acceptable?

 

http://www.amazon.com/USB-Wall-Charger-Portable-Tab-Black/dp/B015AHUVV0/ref=sr_1_11?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1458859249&sr=1-11&keywords=Extra+outlet+and+USB+charger

 

http://www.amazon.com/GE-Grounded-Adapter-Spaced-Six-Outlet-Tap/dp/B0009HKEXM/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1458859421&sr=1-1&keywords=Extra+outlet

 

http://www.amazon.com/Triple-Plug-Outlet-Adapter-Switch/dp/B00PXHOP3S/ref=sr_1_25?ie=UTF8&qid=1458859870&sr=8-25&keywords=outlet+adapter

 

http://www.amazon.com/GE-14522-Three-Outlet-2-USB-Adapter/dp/B00HCMPUB8/ref=sr_1_103?s=lamps-light&ie=UTF8&qid=1458860325&sr=1-103&keywords=outlet+adapter

 

Extension cords are a problem if they are the light "lamp cord" side by side type, as these will not carry full rated amperage of the outlet with several appliances plugged in. As I've stated above, I believe RCI has decided that they would prefer to supply safe, inspected cords rather than allow power strips with surge protectors onboard.

 

The first item you link is surge protected (description lists over voltage protection)

 

the second item most likely would not fit the outlet, especially where there is only one US outlet, as this needs a duplex outlet.

 

The third item may or may not work, depending on the outlet's position relative to the desktop.

 

I haven't been able to determine whether the last is surge protected, and it may or may not fit on the outlet.

[jrmende63]

Thank You for posting this information. I did not know that my belkin was not allowed. I will def remove it from my bag. I have used it on numerous cruises not knowing it was a fire danger.

[payitforward]

Extension cords are a problem if they are the light "lamp cord" side by side type, as these will not carry full rated amperage of the outlet with several appliances plugged in. As I've stated above, I believe RCI has decided that they would prefer to supply safe, inspected cords rather than allow power strips with surge protectors onboard.

 

The first item you link is surge protected (description lists over voltage protection)

 

the second item most likely would not fit the outlet, especially where there is only one US outlet, as this needs a duplex outlet.

 

The third item may or may not work, depending on the outlet's position relative to the desktop.

 

I haven't been able to determine whether the last is surge protected, and it may or may not fit on the outlet.

 

Thanks for the information. I have always just taken a 3 outlet plug-in type before. Ironically, the last one is the one I thought might be most helpful, but I also did not see any information on surge protection and the reviews are not great. What are your thoughts on just something like this?

 

http://www.amazon.com/Anker-Charger-PowerPort-Multi-Port-Samsung/dp/B00VH8ZW02/ref=sr_1_9?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1458862520&sr=1-9&keywords=usb+hub

[chengkp75]

Thanks for the information. I have always just taken a 3 outlet plug-in type before. Ironically, the last one is the one I thought might be most helpful, but I also did not see any information on surge protection and the reviews are not great. What are your thoughts on just something like this?

 

http://www.amazon.com/Anker-Charger-PowerPort-Multi-Port-Samsung/dp/B00VH8ZW02/ref=sr_1_9?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1458862520&sr=1-9&keywords=usb+hub

 

Didn't even need to open the link, since I've contacted Anker, and all their products are surge protected.

 

Here is a post where I've found things that are definitely not surge protected:

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=49476307&postcount=65

[The Grumpus]

As I said, I guess I was just fortunate. I was not implying anyone should bring one if it's not allowed. Since mine were not confiscated on several occasions, I did not know they were not allowed. I also never checked the list of forbidden items so this is probably the reason I did not know. By all means people should follow rules.

 

 

I've been on 30 something cruises and brought one with me every time and no one ever batted an eye. Never noticed anything in the cruise docs about them but then I've never completely read them either.

 

Guess I'm an outlaw too. [emoji41]

[hapster85]

It can actually vary between 23 & 25 depending on which way your transatlantic ship is head. Of course if you are flying, things can really get messed up.

 

Lol touché. Get the International Dateline involved, and it really gets interesting.

[BeachChik]

I respect that information, but still don't see it as justification for that practice. It puts electronics at risk...period.

Actually, I have extensive knowledge of how they work, and while your details on their circuitry is fundamentally correct, they don't apply across the universe of such devices - there are actually more than a dozen variations on how those devices are designed - they are not all alike. Some literally fail and prevent any electricity to pass by terminating the power circuit via a limited voltage diode. Others trigger an internal "circuit breaker", while still others leverage a semiconductor to halt the surge temporarily (as you correctly stated). There are even units that place a simple microfuse in line with the ground.

 

All that said, I stand by my position that any company (ship or land-based) that knowingly prevents proper protection for expense electronics is grossly negligent towards its customers' property.

 

It's amazing to me that someone who has the knowledge explains why something is dangerous and yet you say they are wrong.

 

Makes me think of all the people that claim vaccines cause autism even though doctor after doctor has said it isn't true.

 

Why listen to an expert when you can say you read something on the internet so it must be true.

[BeachChik]

Extension cords are a problem if they are the light "lamp cord" side by side type, as these will not carry full rated amperage of the outlet with several appliances plugged in. As I've stated above, I believe RCI has decided that they would prefer to supply safe, inspected cords rather than allow power strips with surge protectors onboard.

 

The first item you link is surge protected (description lists over voltage protection)

 

the second item most likely would not fit the outlet, especially where there is only one US outlet, as this needs a duplex outlet.

 

The third item may or may not work, depending on the outlet's position relative to the desktop.

 

I haven't been able to determine whether the last is surge protected, and it may or may not fit on the outlet.

 

I for one appreciate all your posts and have learned a bit not only about this but how the ships water system works. I find it unbelievable that someone would feel that their electronics are more valuable then every other person on the ship and completely disregard the fact that they bring something on board that could cause a fire.

 

Maybe the cruise lines need to stop allowing any type of cord or plug to be brought on because clearly being told it isn't safe isn't a good enough reason for some.

[Cuizer2]

Extension cords are a problem if they are the light "lamp cord" side by side type, as these will not carry full rated amperage of the outlet with several appliances plugged in. As I've stated above, I believe RCI has decided that they would prefer to supply safe, inspected cords rather than allow power strips with surge protectors onboard.

 

The first item you link is surge protected (description lists over voltage protection)

 

the second item most likely would not fit the outlet, especially where there is only one US outlet, as this needs a duplex outlet.

 

The third item may or may not work, depending on the outlet's position relative to the desktop.

 

I haven't been able to determine whether the last is surge protected, and it may or may not fit on the outlet.

 

Well, maybe that is why my extension cord gets through. It is not a lamp type cord. Still, how much amperage can a phone, a camera, and a laptop generate. I'm not bringing an iron, a heater, and an oven.

Edited March 25, 2016 by Cuizer2

[CRUISEFAN0001]

I've been on 30 something cruises and brought one with me every time and no one ever batted an eye. Never noticed anything in the cruise docs about them but then I've never completely read them either.

 

Guess I'm an outlaw too. [emoji41]

No outlaw...just smart.

I for one appreciate all your posts and have learned a bit not only about this but how the ships water system works. I find it unbelievable that someone would feel that their electronics are more valuable then every other person on the ship and completely disregard the fact that they bring something on board that could cause a fire.

 

Maybe the cruise lines need to stop allowing any type of cord or plug to be brought on because clearly being told it isn't safe isn't a good enough reason for some.

That's just incredibly misguided in terms of what was said.

 

There is virtually no risk whatsoever in using a UL approved surge protector on the ship, so your misleading statement is just that. Anyone who claims there is any risk to others is simply uniformed. As for being an expert - I am one when it comes to this kind of electronics. I don't profess to be one on ship's electronics, but stating that there is any danger using a UL approved surge protector anyplace, anytime is simply wrong.

 

Just for kicks...I called an associate at our company who is an IEEE certified electrical engineer, and when I told him about these claims he thought I was joking. Then he told me that "whoever is making such claims has no clue about these devices or how they can be used". Enough said. End of conversation.

Edited March 25, 2016 by CRUISEFAN0001

[janrey1234]

It can actually vary between 23 & 25 depending on which way your transatlantic ship is head. Of course if you are flying, things can really get messed up.

 

The issue with power strips is the surge protection. If you have multi outlets that clearly do not have surge protection you should be okay. Try something like this ...

 

 

Y

 

This is what the outlets on the Allure look like ...

 

 

Follow the cord to that multiplug under the desk there is another outlet. I plugged a multi usb charger under the desk for more charging ability.