Unhappy people on the Oosterdam 10/15/05

[Allis154]

"If you are not prepared to accept change then HAL is not the line for you".

 

 

This seems like an interesting "customer relations" line.

 

I know they can change ports and schedules, and it is their right to do so. I would prefer visiting my home town instead of the Bahamas, if it meant missing a hurricane.

 

This situation on the O'dam does seem to be pretty bad. It would be iteresting to hear from those people currently on the ship when they get back. I wonder if it is as bad, or worse, as we are envisioning.

 

Groups of any size can cause issues, I think. Larger groups tend to affect more people, more often. I don't think that group cruises will be going anywhere. It is a quick and cheap way for cruise lines to fill their ships.

[jhannah]

HAL tell me officially "If you are not prepared to accept change then HAL is not the line for you".

Are you serious? While I'm sure that's technically true (any line can change things) that's got to be the coldest slap-in-the-face response I've ever heard! It's shameful, IMO. :(

[Copper10-8]

This situation on the O'dam does seem to be pretty bad. It would be iteresting to hear from those people currently on the ship when they get back. I wonder if it is as bad, or worse, as we are envisioning.[quote]

 

Great point!

[peaches from georgia]

Well, we know for sure that late seating dining was cancelled for all pax, even those who had been previously confirmed, except for 'the group'. That, for me, puts the situation in the 'Worst' category without even knowing the other inconveniences. :mad:

[trubey]

Many items will be impacted from the size of this group, but as far as the dinner goes: Well, from a whole ship perspective, 50 percent of the passengers are going to be happy because they wanted the early seating anyway. Probably another 10 percent wanted early but had to take late because that was all that was available. Another 10 percent probably doesn't care. So that leaves maybe 30 percent really angry.

 

My thought, suggestion to HAL. Tell large groups that they can have the dining room only for lunches, not dinners.

 

susana.

[trubey]

Would you mind sharing the exact e-mail with us. Could you do a copy and paste from the e-mail to your reply? susana.

["Wandering Wino's&quo]

I am very serious and would be happy to place here an extract from the e-mail if people are interested. There was also something like - and now I write from memory so you are getting a drift rather than the actual quote "This might not be the information that you wanted to hear but we must make you aware of the facts".

I was a little surprised but it is better to be told the truth - individuals are expendable and not worth consideration if something better comes along.

 

I'm sure we would all be interested in seeing the official response from Holland American.

As the week passes I'm still hopeful that all the problems that confronted my friends when they boarded the O last Saturday have been solved and have proved not to be so overwhelming. But of course I will know more when I see them in San Diego just before we board.

I did received an email from the TA that we all used yesterday, in it she states that the group sailing now had experienced difficulty regarding their shipboard credit. Seems the ship didn't have record of the credit for each of the staterooms. The credit the TA was referring to was promo #267 a $50.00 pp shipboard credit. This promo had been confirmed by email on 09/2004, very frustrating don't you think?

I truly hope that we find this event that took place last Saturday in relationship to the dining times proves not to be as serious as first thought, because again I love the Ships of Holland America.

[peaches from georgia]

Thank you for sharing that. It could not be more clear that above all else HAL values short-term profits versus long-term customer relationships. I'm just surprised that they laid it on the line quite so bluntly.

[1cruiselvr]

I work for a large corporation and I'm sad to say that this attitude is the wave of corporate future. They don't care about customer loyalty. They assume there will always be another to take it's place. Sell now no matter how is their attitude. So it's just not HAL, it's corporate America. Happy Sailing!

[MBeamTX]

I'm guessing the person who wrote that email may not be authoring any more such candid correspondence for HAL in the future. :rolleyes:

[sail7seas]

Was that HAL e-mail response from Customer Service, a reservation agent? What position to they have? Thanks for posting it.

 

[tumeroll]

trubey,

 

thanks for starting the website. It is very informative and should help those of us that are concern with being on a cruise with a large group.

 

I will be on the cruise (Dec 11 Westerdam) that has the "single seniors" group. Does anyone know how large this group will be?

 

Being a single senior, I wouldn't worry about this very much. Most of them will want the early sitting and will be long gone from the publis rooms by 9:00 p.m.

[Linda CruiseDiva]

Groups of any size can cause issues, I think. Larger groups tend to affect more people, more often.

 

Yes, you have a point. However, even a "small" group can make an impact.

 

Just image this situation... a group of about 250 passengers book a cruise and about a dozen of them have adjacent balconies. They ask their stewards to open the balcony partitions so they can have a cocktail party, to which they have invited all the members of their group. Now, imagine your balcony is located above, below, or alongside them. Would you be a happy cruiser? I didn't think so. (BTW, that scenario is an actual example of what was planned to take place on a ship sailing this week!)

 

I don't think that group cruises will be going anywhere. It is a quick and cheap way for cruise lines to fill their ships.

 

It's also an easy way for web sites to make money by signing up their members, as illustrated above :)

[MBeamTX]

Just image this situation... a group of about 250 passengers book a cruise and about a dozen of them have adjacent balconies. They ask their stewards to open the balcony partitions so they can have a cocktail party, to which they have invited all the members of their group. Now, imagine your balcony is located above, below, or alongside them.

 

What I'm imagining is the ship listing to one side! :eek:

[AirGorilla]

If they did that to us, compensation would have no relevance. They would have so severely impacted our enjoyment that an offer of a shipboard credit would be insulting.

 

If they take our reservation, confirm in writing at the time of deposit we have 8:00 seating, if it says 8:00 when we get our documents that is what we expect and have paid for. It matters VERY much to us to not have dinner at 6:15. We would not be in the dining room at that hour and they have, therefore, removed a very important part of our cruise.

 

I would be inflexible in my acceptance of them giving this large group priority over all others.

 

I don't want credits, shipboard credits, soothing words.....I want what I bought and paid for. I would not make a final payment without the confirmation of our dining time.

 

It truly matters that much to us. For those who say, No big deal, great. I'm happy it doesn't matter to you. For DH and me, we would be beserk.

It sure sounds to me like this group is so big that dining hour will not be the only thing that will negatively impact on the other people aboard who are not a part of the group.

 

You're absolutely right!! We are ardent late diners. We would be Royally PO'd if they did this to us. In fact, I think it is fair to say that we would NEVER again sail with a cruise line that did this to us!!

[AirGorilla]

I have just read the entire thread. Here's a little protest idea for the displaced diners, maybe it could be classified as a bit of "civil disobedience": Arrive a little bit late, or maybe later than that! Then EAT REAL SLOW. Then TAKE YOUR TIME with coffee and after-dinner drinks. Stay at your tables until after 9:00 pm.

 

This could be really funny if someone organized it!!

[mechcc]

I have just read the entire thread. Here's a little protest idea for the displaced diners, maybe it could be classified as a bit of "civil disobedience": Arrive a little bit late, or maybe later than that! Then EAT REAL SLOW. Then TAKE YOUR TIME with coffee and after-dinner drinks. Stay at your tables until after 9:00 pm.

 

This could be really funny if someone organized it!!

 

I agree this would be funny. However, this probably won't happen due to the fact that those that are affected are individual passengers and not an organized group. They lack a leader and with the exception of being displaced for only a short time they have very little loyalty to each other. In short they lack organization. Add to that, the "normal" HAL member is a past passenger with wonderful memories of other cruises, tends to follow the dress codes and other rules, and that only about 30% of the regular passengers are unhappy about the time switch, this is extremely unlikely to happen. It would take a very, very strong leader type personality to organize and pull this off successfully. And that type of leader would be in Congress and have their cruise paid for by the 50% group in return for the 15 minute required motivational speech on one evening.

[Two@Sea]

Arrive a little bit late, or maybe later than that! Then EAT REAL SLOW. Then TAKE YOUR TIME with coffee and after-dinner drinks. Stay at your tables until after 9:00 pm.

 

I can only imagine that such actions would cause undue and additional stress for the serving staff, so I would never "follow along" in something like that. We should, however, try to come up with something effective for the future. I am reminded of the old Candid Camera jingle. "Sometime, somewhere, when you least expect it... " Ideas that would stress management, rather than staff, anyone?

[Two@Sea]

Previous post was (so what else is new?) unclear...

 

What I meant was that the same situation could happen to any of us "when we least expect it" and it would be nice to have a unified plan ahead of time.

[Bramcruiser]

My thought, suggestion to HAL. Tell large groups that they can have the dining room only for lunches, not dinners.

 

susana.

 

 

God NO! I escaped to the dining room at lunch time to escape the crowd in the Lido deck. Loved the fact it was quiet and we still had that elegant touch towards dining.

[Cruiseoften]

I have to agree with you Sail. A free dinner just wouldn't cut it for me either.

 

OK - it's great that HAL is listening - but is it paying attention! The 'bean counters' are sitting there with well sharpened pencils!

 

Free dinner anywhere and a paltry 'on board credit' is not compensation for being bumped from the dinner sitting (booked and confirmed many months ago) of our choice. We're not "last minute" people and do not accept early seating dinner. Just HATE this 4 seatings nonsense!

 

That said, we, like many others, are not in a financial position to walk off the ship and lose the cost of the cruise - and the cruise line knows it! So, realistically, we'd have to make the best of it. Most certainly real compensation would be sought on our return...but I wouldn't be holding my breath on the outcome :(

 

The saying 'the customer is always right' no longer holds true - at least not with cruise lines.

 

I'm no lawyer but isn't there something about 'disclosure' somewhere?

It's probably in favor of the line anyway :( :rolleyes:

[kryos]

I'm no lawyer but isn't there something about 'disclosure' somewhere?

It's probably in favor of the line anyway :( :rolleyes:

Believe me, if HAL has not covered themselves in regard to assigned dining times in the past, they will after this week.

 

Sadly, your cruise contract covers the line for almost anything ... changing an entire itinerary, changing length and order of port stops, cancelling ports, etc. Why shouldn't changing confirmed dining times be added to the list too? :(

 

Unfortunately, I think we're stuck. If we get onboard and find a card in our stateroom stating a dining time we don't like, there really won't be much we can do about it other than leave the ship. Otherwise, we have to "adjust" as best we can.

 

It's kind of sad, but I think cruising is changing. Unlike a land vacation, where you can always stay at another hotel, or get up and leave a certain restaurant and go somewhere else if you don't like the service, with a cruise you are kinda stuck. It's a take it or leave it attitude that we are being presented with.

 

These folks onboard this week were offered paltry "consolations" when their dining times were changed to favor the large group. What choice did they have to accept them? What were their alternatives?

 

I for one will be very interested to hear from some of these folks next week after they return. I'm frankly surprised that we haven't heard more from them this week, and that fact leaves me wondering if perhaps some sort of acceptable compromise had been reached to appease the folks onboard.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[kryos]

Being a single senior, I wouldn't worry about this very much. Most of them will want the early sitting and will be long gone from the publis rooms by 9:00 p.m.

LOL ... now, now ... don't sterotype seniors. I would have thought that too, but I'll never forget a land vacation I took to the Jersey shore with a friend of mine about 15 years back. We were both in our mid-thirties at the time, and neither of us was the "partying" type. We booked our room after Labor Day, figuring all the kids would be back in school by then. Since only "seniors" really took advantage of the shore during the weekdays after Labor Day, we figured the hotel would be nice and quiet.

 

Wrong! These older folks would sit out by the pool drinking and socializing sometimes until 2:00 or 3:00 in the morning! One night, in exasperation, my friend went out on our balcony and yelled down "Can you quiet down a bit out there? The younger folks are trying to sleep!" :)

 

Those seniors sure know how to have a good time. :)

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[heavenly]

While I had Ship Services on the line today regarding the 10/22 sailing of the Oosterdam, I asked about the 10/15 sailing. This group was no surprise to them, they had contacted all the other groups about the dining changes but never contacted the individual passengers. This is just so wrong...

[stanford's girl]

I leave on my Oosterdam cruise on Saturday so I'll miss the fireworks from this weeks cruisers. I hope someone starts a thread about the fiasco so I can read all about it when I return.:)

I'm sure if the dining times do get changed on my cruise, that someone will start a thread about it when we get back.;)

What a crazy couple of weeks this is going to be on the HAL board!! :eek: