Awkward Tipper

[Rh2458]

They can do whatever they want with the money:confused:

 

Carnival has made it clear how the tips are distributed. If they don't follow through with that distribution the auditors would be all over it and make them rectify it immediately. Not sure if fraud would be the right word but something like that.

[LMaxwell]

Carnival has made it clear how the tips are distributed. If they don't follow through with that distribution the auditors would be all over it and make them rectify it immediately. Not sure if fraud would be the right word but something like that.

 

What auditors? Internal auditors?

[Rh2458]

What auditors? Internal auditors?

IRS, or any other agency they may be paying taxes and other fees to. If I were an employee, and I was listed in the tips pool distribution and I wasn't getting a piece of that pie I would, in a heartbeat go to the proper authorities and let them know they are deceiving the public. No way Carnival is going to risk that.

[ducklite]

it must be hard going through life not being able to control everyone else's hard earned money. :rolleyes:

 

 

 

if my pants are so tight then the problem is with carnival and maybe they should increase the standard tip percentage as that is what i pay and not a penny less or a penny more. or maybe the problem is that you were so quick to start throwing mud that you didn't even take the time to read my post.

 

 

 

don't forget to wash your hands after slinging that mud. :p

 

 

 

If Carnival raised the tip to 30%, you would be one of the first people howling about it.

[LMaxwell]

IRS, or any other agency they may be paying taxes and other fees to. If I were an employee, and I was listed in the tips pool distribution and I wasn't getting a piece of that pie I would, in a heartbeat go to the proper authorities and let them know they are deceiving the public. No way Carnival is going to risk that.

 

The IRS? Foreign employees on a foreign ship.

 

Carnival can tell you how much they collect for any given division but how they distribute it and to whom and how much is solely at their discretion and is based on internal metrics. The best are rewarded the most, the worst the least (to help weed them out).

 

But don't for a second believe there is stringent auditing or recourse involved here.

[LMaxwell]

If Carnival raised the tip to 30%, you would be one of the first people howling about it.

 

Carnival should actually make the tip a fixed percentage of cruise fare, not just ancillary items like drinks. I support that. It is much more fair to guests.

[firemanbobswife]

Carnival should actually make the tip a fixed percentage of cruise fare, not just ancillary items like drinks. I support that. It is much more fair to guests.

 

 

I believe we have visited this idea before and it was deemed unfavorably.

[Rh2458]

The IRS? Foreign employees on a foreign ship.

 

Carnival can tell you how much they collect for any given division but how they distribute it and to whom and how much is solely at their discretion and is based on internal metrics. The best are rewarded the most, the worst the least (to help weed them out).

 

But don't for a second believe there is stringent auditing or recourse involved here.

 

Conveniently left out the "OR OTHER AGENCY" No way they will advertise on their website how the tips are distributed (how much to each group, dining staff, cabin staff) and then not follow through. I would also imagine their US stockholders would be entitled to an auditing statement of where the collected monies go, as well as how it's distributed. Now it appears as though you are backpedaling a little as well. I'm reading your new statement to mean the money goes to the different pools, but then how it's specifically distributed may or may not be exactly how people think. You, or whomever it was I was originally addressing suggested Carnival was just keeping portions of the tip pool.

[LMaxwell]

I believe we have visited this idea before and it was deemed unfavorably.

 

Yes, deemed unfavorable by you and one or two others who discussed it.

 

I'm not sure why the restaurant model would be so unfavorable in this situation though. Seems equitable and fair to me. Now, as to what the percentage should be; 10% seems low. 30% seems high. Somewhere in the teens to 20% is probably about right; just like the restaurant model.

 

I'm all ears though as to your opinion of why you do not like this model.

[ducklite]

Carnival should actually make the tip a fixed percentage of cruise fare, not just ancillary items like drinks. I support that. It is much more fair to guests.

 

 

 

I disagree. A 200 s/f cabin on the first or 10th deck takes the same amount of effort to clean, but one will cost substantially more than the other. Suites typically pay more in standard service charges/gratuities to begin with. Service in the dining room is the same regardless of your cabin (unless you are in a class based ship like Cunard or some of the NCL(?) ships with private dining rooms only for certain suites). Additionally a person could book a year out and get the same cabin as someone who booked a week out during a fire sale and pay double or even triple.

 

I would rather see a flat, set per person charge based on the square footage of the cabin. That--to me--would be a reasonable way of looking at it.

Edited June 11, 2016 by ducklite

[LMaxwell]

I'm reading your new statement to mean the money goes to the different pools, but then how it's specifically distributed may or may not be exactly how people think.

 

I'm not backpedaling, and that is precisely what I was saying.

 

And I am not the person who said Carnival does not distribute any of it.

 

But only Carnival knows how much is in the pool, and they select who is in the pool, and they base how much of a share each person in the pool gets based on internal performance metrics. Those in the pool have no way of knowing how big the pool is. Who are they going to request audit it? The flag country of the ship? Their home country?

 

:confused:

[ducklite]

Conveniently left out the "OR OTHER AGENCY" No way they will advertise on their website how the tips are distributed (how much to each group, dining staff, cabin staff) and then not follow through. I would also imagine their US stockholders would be entitled to an auditing statement of where the collected monies go, as well as how it's distributed. Now it appears as though you are backpedaling a little as well. I'm reading your new statement to mean the money goes to the different pools, but then how it's specifically distributed may or may not be exactly how people think. You, or whomever it was I was originally addressing suggested Carnival was just keeping portions of the tip pool.

 

 

 

I am not sure that stockholders have the right to access line items in the books of a corporation. They are entitled to the annual reports, 10K's, etc. I could be wrong in the level of access, I have never really had a want or need to delve so deeply into a companies records that I knew how much they spent in TP each year.

[LMaxwell]

I disagree. A 200 s/f cabin on the first or 10th deck takes the same amount of effort to clean, but one will cost substantially more than the other. Suites typically pay more in standard service charges/gratuities to begin with. Service in the dining room is the same regardless of your cabin (unless you are in a class based ship like Cunard or some of the NCL(?) ships with private dining rooms only for certain suites). Additionally a person could book a year out and get the same cabin as someone who booked a week out during a fire sale and pay double or even triple.

 

I would rather see a flat, set charge based on the square footage of the cabin. That--to me--would be a reasonable way of looking at it.

 

Yes, but as a percentage of cruise fare someone in an interior cabin may be paying 25%, while someone in a suite is paying, say, 8%.

 

I see your point though.

 

But then why aren't restaurants operated on a fixed charge? You take up the same space and utilize the same opportunity time of the wait staff. If you order $40 of food your tip may be $8, but if someone orders $80 of food the tip may be $16 for largely the same amount of service and time.

[Rh2458]

Yes, deemed unfavorable by you and one or two others who discussed it.

 

I'm not sure why the restaurant model would be so unfavorable in this situation though. Seems equitable and fair to me. Now, as to what the percentage should be; 10% seems low. 30% seems high. Somewhere in the teens to 20% is probably about right; just like the restaurant model.

 

I'm all ears though as to your opinion of why you do not like this model.

 

Please explain more. Am I to understand you are suggesting that rather (come September) $12.95 per person per day go for tips on a 7 day cruise $90.65, you'd rather pay (just for numbers sake) on a 1,000 @15% $150.00 or @20% $200.00. I missed all the previous discussion regarding this.

[ducklite]

Yes, but as a percentage of cruise fare someone in an interior cabin may be paying 25%, while someone in a suite is paying, say, 8%.

 

 

 

I see your point though.

 

 

 

But then why aren't restaurants operated on a fixed charge? You take up the same space and utilize the same opportunity time of the wait staff. If you order $40 of food your tip may be $8, but if someone orders $80 of food the tip may be $16 for largely the same amount of service and time.

 

 

 

Typically the higher the check the more work a server has done. I suppose a single diner could come in and order the most expensive entree and bottle of wine and have a $600 tab for sitting in a small table and reading the paper while they ate and drank for 90 minutes while a party of six could take a larger table, ordering appetizers and beers one round at a time and stay for a few hours with a tab of $200, but that is probably the exception to the norm in both cases.

[LMaxwell]

Please explain more. Am I to understand you are suggesting that rather (come September) $12.95 per person per day go for tips on a 7 day cruise $90.65, you'd rather pay (just for numbers sake) on a 1,000 @15% $150.00 or @20% $200.00. I missed all the previous discussion regarding this.

 

Yes, that is the proposal. Treat it like a restaurant. Tie the tip to the spend amount.

[LMaxwell]

Typically the higher the check the more work a server has done. I suppose a single diner could come in and order the most expensive entree and bottle of wine and have a $600 tab for sitting in a small table and reading the paper while they ate and drank for 90 minutes while a party of six could take a larger table, ordering appetizers and beers one round at a time and stay for a few hours with a tab of $200, but that is probably the exception to the norm in both cases.

 

That's an extreme example.

 

If I go to dinner and order an appetizer and my wife and I both order soft drinks and we order dessert we can easily double our bill, which we would tip on. If we don't order those items and just stick to entrees and have a lower bill the waiter/waitress tip is also lower in real dollars, but at a static percentage.

[ducklite]

That's an extreme example.

 

 

 

If I go to dinner and order an appetizer and my wife and I both order soft drinks and we order dessert we can easily double our bill, which we would tip on. If we don't order those items and just stick to entrees and have a lower bill the waiter/waitress tip is also lower in real dollars, but at a static percentage.

 

 

 

And by not ordering appetizers and dessert you are creating less work for the server and (hopefully) faster turn of the top. See my point?

[LMaxwell]

And by not ordering appetizers and dessert you are creating less work for the server and (hopefully) faster turn of the top. See my point?

 

I see your point, my response to which is "Maybe".

 

But my point remains the more you spend, the more you tip (at a fixed percentage). The less you spend, the less you tip.

 

Why should those in suites be tipping 5% - 8%, while those in interiors effectively are tipping 20% - 30%?

 

Do you see the point I'm driving at?

[Je Souhaite]

Yes, that is the proposal. Treat it like a restaurant. Tie the tip to the spend amount.

 

Sorry, but your basic logic is flawed. NO ONE pay the same for staterooms, even though they could be next to each other. They can go ANYWHERE from FREE, to a premium price. And everything in between.

 

Additionally, no one eats the same in the DR. No one presents me with a bill if I eat one appetizer, to double every course, including two entrees. And could you actually be suggesting they include prices next to their meals. You'd be shocked on what they actually cost.

 

I wonder how the tipping works in those who are suggesting in their businesses. :rolleyes:

Edited June 11, 2016 by Je Souhaite

[firemanbobswife]

Yes, deemed unfavorable by you and one or two others who discussed it.

 

 

 

I'm not sure why the restaurant model would be so unfavorable in this situation though. Seems equitable and fair to me. Now, as to what the percentage should be; 10% seems low. 30% seems high. Somewhere in the teens to 20% is probably about right; just like the restaurant model.

 

 

 

I'm all ears though as to your opinion of why you do not like this model.

 

 

I already explained it before. Now if I could just find which thread it was in.......

[Rh2458]

Yes, that is the proposal. Treat it like a restaurant. Tie the tip to the spend amount.

 

Plenty of people are already cheapskates and take off the prepaid tips. Would your idea include the premise people could still remove it?

[LMaxwell]

Sorry, but your basic logic is flawed. NO ONE pay the same for staterooms, even though they could be next to each other. They can go ANYWHERE from FREE, to a premium price. And everything in between.

 

Additionally, no one eats the same in the DR. No one presents me with a bill if I eat one appetizer, to double every course, including two entrees. And could you actually be suggesting they include prices next to their meals. You'd be shocked on what they actually cost.

 

I wonder how the tipping works in those who are suggesting in their businesses. :rolleyes:

 

I'm not suggesting a price list in the dining room. But for that sake at restaurants no table is likely to order the same exact items as another table, so different bills, taking up the same space, similar amount of time, tip roughly the same percentage, but different amounts.

[LMaxwell]

Plenty of people are already cheapskates and take off the prepaid tips. Would your idea include the premise people could still remove it?

 

Sure, it is a tip. I'm in favor of equity and fairness to guests, but that also includes the guest having discretion if service is poor. I'm not willing to penalize 98% of guests for the 2% that subvert the system entirely.

[Je Souhaite]

I'm not suggesting a price list in the dining room. But for that sake at restaurants no table is likely to order the same exact items as another table, so different bills, taking up the same space, similar amount of time, tip roughly the same percentage, but different amounts.

 

Yup. That's how it works.

 

But the same thing happens on the ship between the MDR and the steakhouse. They serve the same way, on plates, from the right, yet charge 7 times the tip that they do in the MDR. And most people forget to remove that tip for the uneaten meal in the MDR, for work not performed.