Tim Roberts is joining Seabourn

[St Pete Cruiser]

Thanks for the info TampaMike. I'm not surprised that the S class ships are being dealt before Prinsendam as we were told several times the S class were not profitable compared to the Prinsendam. Do you think HAL will give up on the more exotic itinerarys?

[Modern_Viking]

Are there any other smaller ships on other lines going out of service that could replace her? Or is the era of purpose-built smaller ships over for mass market cruise lines.

 

The only two ships of roughly the same size that come to mind are the Pacific Princess and the ship operating as Fathom. I'm not sure the Carnival Group is too keen on keeping them over the long term, but if HAL sells Prinsendam, I suppose they might possibly be willing to take over one of those ships if Carnival hasn't sold them as well.

 

Just idle speculation on my part.

[Modern_Viking]

I've sailed on two Prinsendam cruises while Capt. Roberts was serving as master. On one, in the Explorer's Lounge one evening, he expressed his fondness of previously working on board Windstar ships. The Windstar brand was of course once owned by HAL, but is no longer. So it seems to have joint HAL from a linked company, and now has moved over to another linked company (within the HAL group).

 

One thing that I have wondered about is the possible future British exit from the EU. I know the referendum was to encourage that to happen, but the Brexit hasn't actually been scheduled, to my knowledge. Also, since HAL ships are flagged in the EU, the master must be a citizen of the EU (as I understand things). An allowance seems to be made for citizens of the English Commonwealth, as they seem to be accepted as long as the UK is part of the EU.

 

In the past, HAL had a mix of Dutch and Bahamian flagged ships, with the British captains only on the Bahamian flagged ships. HAL only re-flagged all their ships under the Dutch flag once the EU passed a rule that member countries could not have rules favoring their own citizens over other EU citizens. Once that was true, Brits could command Dutch flagged ships.

 

In the future, if the Brexit actually happens, HAL will either need to re-flag some ships outside the EU once again or recruit more EU citizens as captains and send their current English Commonwealth captains to other lines with ships flagged outside the EU.

 

I see Seabourn ships are flagged in the Bahamas. So Tim Roberts would be welcome there. Perhaps more British/Canadian/New Zealand officers now at HAL will move to Seabourn and Norwegian (or EU officers) might move to HAL.

 

This is all just a theory. I have no idea how much longer English Commonwealth citizens will be able to serve on EU ships, and it might be indefinitely. But if we see more senior deck department officer swaps between HAL and Seabourn, that might hint as to what the executives of the HAL Group are thinking.

[OlsSalt]

I've sailed on two Prinsendam cruises while Capt. Roberts was serving as master. On one, in the Explorer's Lounge one evening, he expressed his fondness of previously working on board Windstar ships. The Windstar brand was of course once owned by HAL, but is no longer. So it seems to have joint HAL from a linked company, and now has moved over to another linked company (within the HAL group).

 

One thing that I have wondered about is the possible future British exit from the EU. I know the referendum was to encourage that to happen, but the Brexit hasn't actually been scheduled, to my knowledge. Also, since HAL ships are flagged in the EU, the master must be a citizen of the EU (as I understand things). An allowance seems to be made for citizens of the English Commonwealth, as they seem to be accepted as long as the UK is part of the EU.

 

In the past, HAL had a mix of Dutch and Bahamian flagged ships, with the British captains only on the Bahamian flagged ships. HAL only re-flagged all their ships under the Dutch flag once the EU passed a rule that member countries could not have rules favoring their own citizens over other EU citizens. Once that was true, Brits could command Dutch flagged ships.

 

In the future, if the Brexit actually happens, HAL will either need to re-flag some ships outside the EU once again or recruit more EU citizens as captains and send their current English Commonwealth captains to other lines with ships flagged outside the EU.

 

I see Seabourn ships are flagged in the Bahamas. So Tim Roberts would be welcome there. Perhaps more British/Canadian/New Zealand officers now at HAL will move to Seabourn and Norwegian (or EU officers) might move to HAL.

 

This is all just a theory. I have no idea how much longer English Commonwealth citizens will be able to serve on EU ships, and it might be indefinitely. But if we see more senior deck department officer swaps between HAL and Seabourn, that might hint as to what the executives of the HAL Group are thinking.

 

Interesting considerations. Thanks for writing this.

[TampaMike]

Thanks for the info TampaMike. I'm not surprised that the S class ships are being dealt before Prinsendam as we were told several times the S class were not profitable compared to the Prinsendam. Do you think HAL will give up on the more exotic itinerarys?

 

I do not think HAL will have any major change in itinerary offerings when Prinsendam leaves. As far as the S-Class, they can be replaced with a Vista for the most part - and Vista's are already sailing former S & R class itineraries (i.e Australia, Caribbean from Tampa, Tahiti, Europe & Alaska).

 

I do expect HAL will replace the Prinsendam with some other smallish 'Elegant Explorer' type for those Kiel Canal transits, and the Amazon. With Seabourn's newbuilds, it is possible that should Seabourn not be able to fill them one could easily transfer to HAL as a Prinsendam III. Again, HAL, Seabourn and Princess are merging Maritime Operations.

[TampaMike]

I've sailed on two Prinsendam cruises while Capt. Roberts was serving as master. On one, in the Explorer's Lounge one evening, he expressed his fondness of previously working on board Windstar ships. The Windstar brand was of course once owned by HAL, but is no longer. So it seems to have joint HAL from a linked company, and now has moved over to another linked company (within the HAL group).

 

One thing that I have wondered about is the possible future British exit from the EU. I know the referendum was to encourage that to happen, but the Brexit hasn't actually been scheduled, to my knowledge. Also, since HAL ships are flagged in the EU, the master must be a citizen of the EU (as I understand things). An allowance seems to be made for citizens of the English Commonwealth, as they seem to be accepted as long as the UK is part of the EU.

 

In the past, HAL had a mix of Dutch and Bahamian flagged ships, with the British captains only on the Bahamian flagged ships. HAL only re-flagged all their ships under the Dutch flag once the EU passed a rule that member countries could not have rules favoring their own citizens over other EU citizens. Once that was true, Brits could command Dutch flagged ships.

 

In the future, if the Brexit actually happens, HAL will either need to re-flag some ships outside the EU once again or recruit more EU citizens as captains and send their current English Commonwealth captains to other lines with ships flagged outside the EU.

 

I see Seabourn ships are flagged in the Bahamas. So Tim Roberts would be welcome there. Perhaps more British/Canadian/New Zealand officers now at HAL will move to Seabourn and Norwegian (or EU officers) might move to HAL.

 

This is all just a theory. I have no idea how much longer English Commonwealth citizens will be able to serve on EU ships, and it might be indefinitely. But if we see more senior deck department officer swaps between HAL and Seabourn, that might hint as to what the executives of the HAL Group are thinking.

 

The HAL ships are all registered in Rotterdam. Although the Netherlands are part of the EU, the Maritime certifications are aligned by country, not the EU as a whole. The Netherlands and UK have complimentary certifications which permits UK Officers to serve on Dutch registered ships. This was a purposeful alignment, as HAL could not recruit sufficient Dutch maritime candidates (who tend to gravitate towards better paying merchant & oil shipping positions). You are correct that UK Officers could contract to Bahamian registered HAL ships - but that was too limiting. Also being part of Carnival Corp, there were already a pool of UK officers from Cunard, P&O & Princess. This would permit assignments across brands as needed. In fact several UK HAL officers are still with the P&O Pacific Even and Pacific Aria (former Statendam & Ryndam) which are no longer registered in Rotterdam but now UK registered. This was all decided and arranged well before Brexit was on the radar. It occurred several years ago when HAL registered the entire fleet in Rotterdam.

 

But again, the maritime regulations are specific by country and not necessarily reciprocal. You will not find Greek certified captains (part of the EU) on HAL ships unless they have acquired additional certifications from the Netherlands or UK.

 

Also, FYI - The Arison Maritime Training Center in Amsterdam this past July to serve training for all 10 Carnival brands (over 6,500 bridge officers).

Edited September 12, 2016 by TampaMike

[drowelf]

Good points Copper. AND didn't they just spend a LOT of money on her at her drydock? I think I remember reading that. Sounds to me like she may be around for a bit but....who knows?

 

We're waiting for the 2018 itineraries to come out. If she has one like the 2017 I see, will be sorely tempted ;)

 

Just off the Prinsendam September 6. We got a virtual Engineering tour, where the Chief Engineer remarked that they spent over $3 Million on Engineering upgrades alone. That does not include the Lido Market place upgrades or other work in the last drydock.

[jos12]

With Tim leaving It must be getting closer for the Prinsendam to leave Holland America.

 

Thats for sure!

 

Probably the Prinsendam is the best HAL ship indeed. We like the small shiops (about 760 geusts here) better than the other ones, starting from about 1400.

But also on the Prinsendam the overall experience is decreasing every year.

Read my review of the cruise around Ireland august 2016 and you will see.

 

Some points:

Sometimes unnecessary early leaving a port.

When you don't understand a decision by HAL, the answer is always: "IT'S ALL ABOUT THE MONEY".

Lying crew when you critisize something.

Food on board just average quality.

New but very hard matrasses on your bed.

During all sea days we heard hammering and/or noise from tank cleaning from 8.00 a.m. A clock or wake up call was not necessary.

The multiple announcements with repeating "news" like "keep your keycard out" were very annoying. Especially at 7.00 a.m.

The chaotic bridge director was a big fat man with an awful smell.

Most shows were poor, but the Irish comedian was fabulous.

 

At least Captain Roberts is very nice and has a has a great sense of humor and most crew members were friendly and ready to help if needed.

 

For me, after 10 HAL cruises no reasson to sail with HAL again.

[rafinmd]

I just saw on the Seabourn Forum that Captain Roberts has just joined the Sojurn in Rome. I wish it had been the Odyssey.

 

Roy

[Gail & Marty sailing away]

Does he know the Fate of the

 

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[Gail & Marty sailing away]

Prinsendam will be 30 years old in 2018 and must go through several inspections.

 

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