Denied boarding -bevare if you hold a previus us visa

[hawkeyetlse]

While it is ultimately NCL's decision (and the Captain's decision, if he was even made aware of the situation), they are not going to go against the advice of the port agents and board someone who the port agents (rightly or wrongly) have determined to have inadequate travel documents.

 

I agree that all of this "ESTA is invalid on NCL" discussion is both wrong and kind of beside the point as far as the OP's case goes. (But I think they would have completely sidestepped the old visa issue if they had applied for new tourist visas instead of taking a chance with the VWP).

[purepixie67]

I'm sorry but I do not see why it is 'taking a chance' getting an ESTA. It is what the state department and NCL tell a passenger to do.

 

When you apply for an ESTA your previous visa and travel are checked. I know this because a colleague was refused an ESTA and had to attend the American Embassy to get a full visa.

 

If an ESTA is accepted on arrival in the US - and indeed for being allowed to board a plane to the US - then why would it not be accepted when returning from a cruise?

[Tomtom70]

Coming into the United States on ESTA is fine by air but then they are leaving the country by Sea on NCL. Therefore, they will not be permitted entry into USA again after the cruise because per ESTA rules once your 90 days or the date you leave you have to wait another 90 days before coming back into the country on a new ESTA. That's why they recommend a tourist visa with multiple entries so that you can leave and come back.

I wish they informed you of this before you spent all that money but it's all clearly written on the state department website.

 

 

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That is not correct. Sorry. Using ESTA is fine for going out on a cruise and also you are welcome back before 90 days even if on a flight by the way. There are limitations to how many days a year you can stay - not there is no problem coming in on ESTA in November for a week and then going back for another week in December.

[Tomtom70]

Rather than everyone going around in circles.

 

Did you ask what specific documentaton the cruise line need to show proper departure? If so what documentation would they have been willing to accept?

 

After making the decision it was not possible to get anything out of them. As mentioned we tried to show the official I94 electronic records but they would not look at it.

 

What i think they would have accepted was if there was a stamp in the passports showing they have been out of the country.

[Tomtom70]

You were photographed departing from Orlando. By whom? I don't mean to doubt you but don't see how this is possible. If I don't have luggage I might not even talk to anyone in person. So when you check in with a passport from some countries you need to go somewhere else to be photographed and fingerprinted?

 

 

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Some years ago there was in fact som testing of machines checking you out of the US -taking a picture, reading the passport and fingerprints. But they were just "optional" and i guess ended up not beeing implemented. I tested it in Chicago a few times. (maybe 5-6 ish years ago)

[Tomtom70]

I'm sorry but I do not see why it is 'taking a chance' getting an ESTA. It is what the state department and NCL tell a passenger to do.

 

When you apply for an ESTA your previous visa and travel are checked. I know this because a colleague was refused an ESTA and had to attend the American Embassy to get a full visa.

 

If an ESTA is accepted on arrival in the US - and indeed for being allowed to board a plane to the US - then why would it not be accepted when returning from a cruise?

 

Exactly

[momoftwinteens]

After making the decision it was not possible to get anything out of them. As mentioned we tried to show the official I94 electronic records but they would not look at it.

 

What i think they would have accepted was if there was a stamp in the passports showing they have been out of the country.

 

I will NOT go into detail about what I do for a living. However, I will say that I access the National entry and exit system on a daily basis. Several times a day, in fact. It is not always reliable, which I have also seen on almost a daily basis.

[Jetlagged787]

You were photographed departing from Orlando. By whom? I don't mean to doubt you but don't see how this is possible. If I don't have luggage I might not even talk to anyone in person. So when you check in with a passport from some countries you need to go somewhere else to be photographed and fingerprinted?

 

 

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I guess from what you say that you are American. If so, I understand your comments as you have a lot more freedom of movement than folk from outside the US. As was pointed out by another poster, you can travel without a passport to the Caribbean and Mexico amongst others. That is probably one reason why the majority of Americans reportedly do not have a passport.

 

For the majority of the rest of us we need to show a passport whenever we move between countries. So to answer the point that you raised, whether we are travelling with luggage or not, we have to pass through a control point and at a minimum, show a passport. There is an exception which is similar to your own situation in the US. A group of European countries are in what is known as the Schengen area. These people can move freely around the Schengen area with only their own country's ID card. As a resident of Portugal, I carry such a card so can move freely around most of mainland Europe. However, if I want to travel back to my own country of England, I have to show my passport as i leave Portugal and dnter England, as the United Kingdom is not a member of Schengen. Crazy eh?

[SquishTheWhale]

Saying that they should have applied for a US visa instead of an ESTA is a load of tosh. Hundreds, if not thousands of UK and EU residents will travel and board a cruise every day in the US using an ESTA.

[UserNameCreativity]

I will NOT go into detail about what I do for a living. However, I will say that I access the National entry and exit system on a daily basis. Several times a day, in fact. It is not always reliable, which I have also seen on almost a daily basis.

 

...and what is it you do for a living? :D Sorry, I couldn't resist!

[momoftwinteens]

...and what is it you do for a living? :D Sorry, I couldn't resist!

 

I could tell you but, then I would have to kill you and that would be a horrible way to end the year!:D

[hawkeyetlse]

I'm sorry but I do not see why it is 'taking a chance' getting an ESTA. It is what the state department and NCL tell a passenger to do.

First of all, I was talking specifically about the OP's two children who had expired student visas in their passports. If they had contacted NCL or the Stare Department about their particular situation ahead of the cruise, they may have received different advice.

 

 

Second, holding a valid ESTA does not guarantee that you will be admitted into the US, and it does not oblige any carrier (airline, cruise line, etc.) to allow you to board, if they have reason to believe that you will be turned away on arrival.

[RDC1]

After making the decision it was not possible to get anything out of them. As mentioned we tried to show the official I94 electronic records but they would not look at it.

 

What i think they would have accepted was if there was a stamp in the passports showing they have been out of the country.

I agree with you here. I suspect that any stamp dated after the visa entry stamp was probably all that was needed.

 

Did you try calling the local number for CBP?

 

I can see both sides in this. The cruise line process requires documentation thus that there cannot be a problem when the ship comes back. I suspect they may have run into this issue in the past. However, unless one has run into this the need for a stamp in the passport would not be obvious.

[Jetlagged787]

 

 

Second, holding a valid ESTA does not guarantee that you will be admitted into the US, and it does not oblige any carrier (airline, cruise line, etc.) to allow you to board, if they have reason to believe that you will be turned away on arrival.

 

If that is the case, what is the purpose of the ESTA? Can it be right that we follow procedures to obtain an ESTA, then go to the expense of booking travel, only to be refused entry? I know it happens from personal experience, but why aren't checks made before granting the ESTA?

[firstcarib]

I guess from what you say that you are American. If so, I understand your comments as you have a lot more freedom of movement than folk from outside the US. As was pointed out by another poster, you can travel without a passport to the Caribbean and Mexico amongst others. That is probably one reason why the majority of Americans reportedly do not have a passport.

 

For the majority of the rest of us we need to show a passport whenever we move between countries. So to answer the point that you raised, whether we are travelling with luggage or not, we have to pass through a control point and at a minimum, show a passport. There is an exception which is similar to your own situation in the US. A group of European countries are in what is known as the Schengen area. These people can move freely around the Schengen area with only their own country's ID card. As a resident of Portugal, I carry such a card so can move freely around most of mainland Europe. However, if I want to travel back to my own country of England, I have to show my passport as i leave Portugal and dnter England, as the United Kingdom is not a member of Schengen. Crazy eh?

 

No, not crazy at all! Best thing we (UK) as a country NEVER did...ie we used our right not to sgn up to the Schengen agreement. A passport is a much safer means of ID still, although obviously even these can get forged! In thse sad terrorist -ridden times, its getting more & more necessary to have stringent border checks, but I really do feel extremely sorry for the passengers denoed boading their cruise by NCL....it seems officialdom at its worst to me! And at its most ignoran!!:rolleyes:

[RDC1]

If that is the case, what is the purpose of the ESTA? Can it be right that we follow procedures to obtain an ESTA, then go to the expense of booking travel, only to be refused entry? I know it happens from personal experience, but why aren't checks made before granting the ESTA?

 

It really has nothing to do with the ESTA. What you have is a fairly unique circumstance arising from systems migrating from stamp and paper to electronic. As a result many entries are no longer stamped so the passport did not contain any proof that they had left the country after their student visas. A single dated entry after their student visa would have probably been sufficient.

[Demonyte]

If that is the case, what is the purpose of the ESTA? Can it be right that we follow procedures to obtain an ESTA, then go to the expense of booking travel, only to be refused entry? I know it happens from personal experience, but why aren't checks made before granting the ESTA?

 

 

Purpose of ESTA is pre-screening and data warehousing and self-service. As said (and as ESTA website makes very clear), having an approved ESTA does not guarantee entry.

 

ESTA is merely an electronic system to handle and screen through passenger data automatically instead of scanning the green paper forms that were used (and still are as a backup for offline use) before ESTA was introduced - the person or machine at the actual entry point is still going to make the ultimate decision about entry, even with n approved ESTA application.

[Jetlagged787]

No, not crazy at all! Best thing we (UK) as a country NEVER did...ie we used our right not to sgn up to the Schengen agreement. A passport is a much safer means of ID still, although obviously even these can get forged! In thse sad terrorist -ridden times, its getting more & more necessary to have stringent border checks, but I really do feel extremely sorry for the passengers denoed boading their cruise by NCL....it seems officialdom at its worst to me! And at its most ignoran!!:rolleyes:

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy with the way our system works, but would be even happier if they would only introduce ID cards. My "crazy" remark related to the way Americans must view our system.

[Jetlagged787]

Purpose of ESTA is pre-screening and data warehousing and self-service. As said (and as ESTA website makes very clear), having an approved ESTA does not guarantee entry.

 

ESTA is merely an electronic system to handle and screen through passenger data automatically instead of scanning the green paper forms that were used (and still are as a backup for offline use) before ESTA was introduced - the person or machine at the actual entry point is still going to make the ultimate decision about entry, even with n approved ESTA application.

 

Thanks for that. I understand now.

[UserNameCreativity]

I could tell you but, then I would have to kill you and that would be a horrible way to end the year!:D

 

That would also ruin my Escape escape in 9 days!!! Can't have that!!! :eek:

[Tomtom70]

I agree with you here. I suspect that any stamp dated after the visa entry stamp was probably all that was needed.

 

Did you try calling the local number for CBP?

 

I can see both sides in this. The cruise line process requires documentation thus that there cannot be a problem when the ship comes back. I suspect they may have run into this issue in the past. However, unless one has run into this the need for a stamp in the passport would not be obvious.

 

Didnt have any number to call, and - I must say - not really a very customer friendly face to help us at NCL either. Really an extraordinary bad experience. No help what so ever.

[Tomtom70]

It really has nothing to do with the ESTA. What you have is a fairly unique circumstance arising from systems migrating from stamp and paper to electronic. As a result many entries are no longer stamped so the passport did not contain any proof that they had left the country after their student visas. A single dated entry after their student visa would have probably been sufficient.

 

You are probably right. I am still very surprised that they didnt even want to look at the onoine i94 form and history that would make this clear though.

 

Hopefully i can file a complaint that makes them do some changes.

Edited December 29, 2016 by Tomtom70

[Cruise Junky]

You are probably right. I am still very surprised that they didnt even want to look at the onoine i94 form and history that would make this clear though.

 

Hopefully i can file a complaint that makes them do some changes.

 

I wish you luck. This was a disaster and 100% on NCL. Please report back with your results.

[razor7_us]

Going on Escape next May with my wife and daughter theses stories make me worry a little. Me and my wife have only been once before on US soil, 8 years ago for a professional co convention. It will be my daughter's first visit. We will be applying for ESTA and thought that was just enough.

Now I will certainly print every single document I get.

I would also like to see that site with our travel info.

 

 

 

Bracarense, if it has been 8 years, your current passport might not pass muster. Effective April of this year you mus have an E-passport to enter the US by plane or sea.

[RDC1]

Didnt have any number to call, and - I must say - not really a very customer friendly face to help us at NCL either. Really an extraordinary bad experience. No help what so ever.

 

Have you sent a question to CPB in the US to get their view of official requirements and how to avoid it in the future.

https://help.cbp.gov/app/ask

 

As far as needing to try and reach them in port.

You would probably need to get it from directory information? Any information desk for a port should also know it. Can also do a search on line to find the telephone number.

 

I don't recall what port you were sailing from but for example if I do a google search for customs boarder protection Miami I get

 

Miami Seaport

Port Information

Port Type: Port of Entry

Location Address:

903 South America Way

Terminal H

Miami, FL 33132

Mailing Address:

Operational Hours:

6:00 AM-10:00 PM (Eastern)

Weekdays (Monday-Sunday)

 

Port Code: 5201

Phone: (305) 536-4758

Fax: (305) 536-4878

Port Director: Dylan J. DeFrancisci

Edited December 29, 2016 by RDC1