Advise after going - Credit card usage in Europe

[Wembley Fraggle]

Chip and signature cards are indistinguishable from chip and pin cards. They are inserted in the same terminal. The only difference comes in when the transaction is processed, you get a message to enter pin with chip and pin or get a message with signature required with a chip and signature. At that point the transaction has been processed and needs finishing off. Frankly it is a bigger problem for a merchant at this point to void the transaction if they don't want to do signatures and I doubt if merchants want to go through with that.

 

As a cashier... in Europe...

Yes, chip and signature cards are indistinguishable from chip an pin cards when they are handed over and inserted into the terminal. However, I, as the cashier, do not get to decide how the terminal reads your card. If the terminal tells me it needs a pin, pin it is. Sometimes, for a reason unknown to me because I am just the lowly girl at the register and neither program the terminal nor the card, it asks for a pin eventhough the person the card belongs to swears it's a chip & sign card (which do exist in Europe).

In that case, there is nothing I am allowed to do. All I may do is cancel the transaction even if that means foregoing the revenue. Do I know how to switch the terminal from pin to signature? Yes. I do. Actually. But I will not tell you because doing so will get me fired. And I like my job. I also need the income to pay for my cruising. If you think I am stupid because I tell you "Sorry, I can't" then be it. But there is nothing I can do for you (without risking to lose my job).

 

I can also easily void the transaction because I need to push an additional button for your receipt to come out which I am only allowed to push if the signature on the credit card slip matches the signature on the back of the card. I push yes = receipt, I push no = the system automatically cancels the transaction. And if you don't enter your pin (because you say you don't have one or because you don't remember it) I just push the little red stop button... and it cancels the transaction. Magic

 

 

I am already as risk accepting a credit card that has "see ID" instead of a signature because we are required to check that all credit cards we accept are signed and my employer considers "see ID" as unsigned and hence not valid. I will accept it because I know it's more common in the US than here (where that's basically unheard of) but I know that people I work with might not and don't have to (unless they are trying to be really nice). And if we decide to accept your card... please a) have ID on you (not a paper copy because you left your ID on the ship), b) have your ID on you (not your traveling companions'), c) make sure you look as much like you in the picture as possible (show me your driving license rather than your biometric passport), d) the signature on your ID should match the signature on the credit card slip... just saying.

 

We are not being mean. We are trying to keep our minimal wage jobs. And we are in a country where "the customer is always right" has its limits (at "the customer is most likely not right but to make them happy we will bend over backwards" and at least my boss will back me up at that because while he doesn't like his staff much, he dislikes customers even more).

 

 

The fact is, PIN and chip cards are needed in automated/ "non-staffed" machine locations like ticket machines and self pay gas stations. Other than those, you will not need PIN and chip.

 

Our credit card terminal decides to let people with chip & pin cards sign about half the time. Do I know why? No. Do I understand why? Nope. Of course that means that the other half of the time if you have a chip&pin, you will need your pin (no matter if your purchase is 10 or 100 Euros). Sometimes it messes up and decides it wants a pin for a card where the owner swears up and down that it's a chip&sign card and not a chip&pin card. Do I know why it does that? Heck, no. Because technology sucks sometimes. I guess.

 

 

Until recently you could buy a train ticket (regular DB ticket machine) without signature or pin. Stick in your credit card, out comes your ticket. They have finally caught onto credit card fraud (in the year of 2017:o) and are requiring a pin. We are also introducing a system of contactless payment (for purchases up to 25 Euros) where you just hold your credit card to the side of the terminal... no signature, no pin required. And you can now pay on your phone through a nation wide loyalty card program... We still like cash :D

[MATHA531]

As a cashier... in Europe...

Yes, chip and signature cards are indistinguishable from chip an pin cards when they are handed over and inserted into the terminal. However, I, as the cashier, do not get to decide how the terminal reads your card. If the terminal tells me it needs a pin, pin it is. Sometimes, for a reason unknown to me because I am just the lowly girl at the register and neither program the terminal nor the card, it asks for a pin eventhough the person the card belongs to swears it's a chip & sign card (which do exist in Europe).

In that case, there is nothing I am allowed to do. All I may do is cancel the transaction even if that means foregoing the revenue. Do I know how to switch the terminal from pin to signature? Yes. I do. Actually. But I will not tell you because doing so will get me fired. And I like my job. I also need the income to pay for my cruising. If you think I am stupid because I tell you "Sorry, I can't" then be it. But there is nothing I can do for you (without risking to lose my job).

 

I can also easily void the transaction because I need to push an additional button for your receipt to come out which I am only allowed to push if the signature on the credit card slip matches the signature on the back of the card. I push yes = receipt, I push no = the system automatically cancels the transaction. And if you don't enter your pin (because you say you don't have one or because you don't remember it) I just push the little red stop button... and it cancels the transaction. Magic

 

 

I am already as risk accepting a credit card that has "see ID" instead of a signature because we are required to check that all credit cards we accept are signed and my employer considers "see ID" as unsigned and hence not valid. I will accept it because I know it's more common in the US than here (where that's basically unheard of) but I know that people I work with might not and don't have to (unless they are trying to be really nice). And if we decide to accept your card... please a) have ID on you (not a paper copy because you left your ID on the ship), b) have your ID on you (not your traveling companions'), c) make sure you look as much like you in the picture as possible (show me your driving license rather than your biometric passport), d) the signature on your ID should match the signature on the credit card slip... just saying.

 

We are not being mean. We are trying to keep our minimal wage jobs. And we are in a country where "the customer is always right" has its limits (at "the customer is most likely not right but to make them happy we will bend over backwards" and at least my boss will back me up at that because while he doesn't like his staff much, he dislikes customers even more).

 

 

 

 

Our credit card terminal decides to let people with chip & pin cards sign about half the time. Do I know why? No. Do I understand why? Nope. Of course that means that the other half of the time if you have a chip&pin, you will need your pin (no matter if your purchase is 10 or 100 Euros). Sometimes it messes up and decides it wants a pin for a card where the owner swears up and down that it's a chip&sign card and not a chip&pin card. Do I know why it does that? Heck, no. Because technology sucks sometimes. I guess.

 

 

Until recently you could buy a train ticket (regular DB ticket machine) without signature or pin. Stick in your credit card, out comes your ticket. They have finally caught onto credit card fraud (in the year of 2017:o) and are requiring a pin. We are also introducing a system of contactless payment (for purchases up to 25 Euros) where you just hold your credit card to the side of the terminal... no signature, no pin required. And you can now pay on your phone through a nation wide loyalty card program... We still like cash :D

 

Believe me, I understand how you feel. I could explain why 99.9% of US cards will require a signature and your terminal will flash signature required. But it's boring and frankly unnecessary.

 

Also these people who write "see id" on their cards instead of signing don't realize they have basically invalidated their cards. Besides, it's not lost or stolen cards that cause the problem but cloned cards. So what good does it do to write see id when that will not be the card presented!

 

Sometimes just pressing the green button if one does not have a pin does the trick. And also, and this is totally understandable, nobody checks signatures in the USA any longer nor asks for id. On small purchases here, they don't even bother to have you sign.

 

I guess it's different strokes for different folks, no pun intended!

[Charles4515]

Believe me, I understand how you feel. I could explain why 99.9% of US cards will require a signature and your terminal will flash signature required. But it's boring and frankly unnecessary.

 

Also these people who write "see id" on their cards instead of signing don't realize they have basically invalidated their cards. Besides, it's not lost or stolen cards that cause the problem but cloned cards. So what good does it do to write see id when that will not be the card presented!

 

 

 

People not signing the card or writing see ID on it represents cluelessness but is fairly common in the US.

 

Chip and Signature instead of Chip and Pin in the US is hilarious. Almost all major store terminals have a keypad and a digital signature pad. So instead of a pin you write your signature on a pad with a clunky digital pen or with your finger and it looks hardly anything like your signature. At gas stations you enter your zip code on the keypad. At restaurants they take your card and bring back a paper receipt to sign and a pen. Restaurants are about the only place you sign with a pen and it will look anything like your signature on the card. Which almost no one actually looks at to compare.

[MATHA531]

People not signing the card or writing see ID on it represents cluelessness but is fairly common in the US.

 

Chip and Signature instead of Chip and Pin in the US is hilarious. Almost all major store terminals have a keypad and a digital signature pad. So instead of a pin you write your signature on a pad with a clunky digital pen or with your finger and it looks hardly anything like your signature. At gas stations you enter your zip code on the keypad. At restaurants they take your card and bring back a paper receipt to sign and a pen. Restaurants are about the only place you sign with a pen and it will look anything like your signature on the card. Which almost no one actually looks at to compare.

 

All this has been discussed adnauseum on various travel blogs and the like and nobody is going to disagree with you regarding the worthlessness of a signature as a security factor in preventing credit card fraud. The banks, however, will cite statistics showing that lost or stolen credit card fraud is relatively low and simply not worth converting the whole system. You can argue with them; I am only acting here as the messenger. Restaurants do not want to spring for the portable terminals needed to implement pins with our tipping expectations in restaurants and it's considered less formal to pay as you exit a la Denny's. Another myth is the USA is the only chip and signature country. Japan and Hong Kong, for example, are not chip and pin.

 

What's done is done. It is simply not worth arguing over. Will US credit cards work in Europe? They will work almost all the time and that's the best one can say.

[debeni]

I chatted online with American Express and was told they only issue chip and signature credit cards. I was told there should be no problem in Europe.

 

I asked if I could setup a PIN just in case and was told there was no longer a mechanism to setup PINS for their chip and signature cards.

[MATHA531]

I chatted online with American Express and was told they only issue chip and signature credit cards. I was told there should be no problem in Europe.

 

I asked if I could setup a PIN just in case and was told there was no longer a mechanism to setup PINS for their chip and signature cards.

 

The interesting thing, of course, is Amex issues chip and pin cards to cardholders outside the USA! How do you like dem apples.

[Pet Nit Noy]

I chatted online with American Express and was told they only issue chip and signature credit cards. I was told there should be no problem in Europe.

 

I'm sorry to have to tell you the the issue with American Express will be acceptance of the cards themselves not the chip and signature part. (There are some specific exceptions which are discussed in the links below.)

 

Here's what Fodor's Editor wrote on the topic: I’ve never had problems using a Visa or MasterCard in any part of the world and their exchange rates beat AmEx—not to mention most currency exchange services. (In general, you’re better off using a credit card than exchanging cash over the counter.) Discover cards fall short overseas. And while American Express has a strong presence in specific markets like Asia, you will likely encounter resistance in some places to the 3 percent transaction fee they charge."

 

http://www.fodors.com/news/best-credit-cards-for-international-travel_1-5428

 

Here's a link to Rick Steves' Forum where a poster asked, " I am an avowed Amex fan but finding that VISA is being asked for more often. Mainly asking how available others have found Amex?" Over a dozen posters replied, so you don't have to take my word alone.

 

Link to the discussion:

https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/food-drink/american-express-vs-visa-use-in-europe

[LondonTowner]

If travelling in Europe best to have Visa or MasterCard as many places won't accept Amex.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

[Charles4515]

If travelling in Europe best to have Visa or MasterCard as many places won't accept Amex.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

 

 

 

I always bring at least one of each, Visa, MC and Amex. I don't usually use the Amex for charges but it has had some perks I might want to use. I take at least three cards. I take two cards ashore and leave two in the safe. You need back up. A card could be declined even though you have notified the card issuer of your travel plans. Or worst case a card lost or stolen.

[Kingsbridge]

The Chase cards are Chip and Signature. FYI, I have had no difficulty using it in other parts of the world.

 

I have 2 Chase cards and a Barclaycard (US). The fact that your card is a chip and signature does not mean you can't add a pin to it. I asked the banks to assign me a pin for each card. While it is true that the pins are intended for cash advances only, you can use them in unattended kiosks in Europe and the bank does not treat the charge as a cash advance. I have used the pin feature in several European countries without incurring any extra charges.

[Charles4515]

I have 2 Chase cards and a Barclaycard (US). The fact that your card is a chip and signature does not mean you can't add a pin to it. I asked the banks to assign me a pin for each card. While it is true that the pins are intended for cash advances only, you can use them in unattended kiosks in Europe and the bank does not treat the charge as a cash advance. I have used the pin feature in several European countries without incurring any extra charges.

 

 

 

Good to know. I will ask for a pin for the Chase card that I have that has no transaction fees. The other one I won't be taking. Never asked for the pins. I also now have two Barclaycard's with no transaction fees and do have pins for those. So I think I am in good shape for two weeks in Europe next month. Also have Apple Pay which I will use next month when I am in London for four days when I have the chance.

[JMHamburg]

Banks in Germany already started to issue new CCs only with PIN. Better be prepared to be asked for your PIN. Much better: you can pay cash in Germany ...

[Charles4515]

Banks in Germany already started to issue new CCs only with PIN. Better be prepared to be asked for your PIN. Much better: you can pay cash in Germany ...

 

 

 

It is the terminals that matter. I have been in a bunch of countries that have only PIN cards issued. Still was able to use my non PIN card. As far as Germany is concerned as I recall, it has been a few years, it did seem like you needed cash because credit cards of any kind were not widely accepted.

[debeni]

I try to use my AMEX as often as possible since I get Delta Air-miles but I am well aware that it is not a universal card. I always bring at least two other cards (VISA and MC). My VISA ATM card has a PIN, of course, so I can always use that if a PIN is required.

[debeni]

Another card I bring along is the Bank of America Travel Rewards card which doesn't charge a foreign exchange fee. I found that I could create a PIN from my online account. I should be all set now just in case it's needed somewhere.

 

Click on Account

then “Manage card settings”

then “Create or change PIN”

[cpl100]

Another card I bring along is the Bank of America Travel Rewards card which doesn't charge a foreign exchange fee. I found that I could create a PIN from my online account. I should be all set now just in case it's needed somewhere.

 

Click on Account

then “Manage card settings”

then “Create or change PIN”

 

Thank you. I did not know that.

[CRHeel94]

Just came back from a couple weeks. We had PIN issues a couple times, usually at machines (luggage locker in Stockholm train station, some automated kiosk in Copenhagen). My card did not work, but my wife's did.