Tipping

[Maime]

There is no way anyone working at a service level on P&O is earning £35K.

[claudiniusmaximus]

Fwiw I just divided the £6 by 11 hours equalling 55p and added it to the 75p an hour a junior waiter gets.

 

I did actually delete that part from my post as I wasn't sure my maths is correct - straight after I posted it so not sure why it's still showing on your feed - but I think both our maths is wrong (the 35k figure you quote is way out).

 

For accurate maths, the guardian article I posted earlier breaks it down. The lowest anyone gets paid is £250 a month. The most anyone gets is around £1k a month if they meet all performance targets and tips are paid etc says a p&o spokesperson. Of course they don't say which crew that is - some get paid more than others clearly.

 

 

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[claudiniusmaximus]

Let's not work on the assumption that all of the crew are suffering a terrible job. I'm sure at times they get sick of the passengers, the constant smiles, being away from home, the shifts and hard work,but there are flip sides. For some it's a way of earning a decent income with good camaraderie and an opportunity to see the world. I know this doesn't apply to everyone but some of the crew like their job.

 

 

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I concur. Way back in the early 90s as a 21 year old while doing my HND in hotel management I considered working on cruise ships for the reasons you mention. I was aware that it meant working for months at a time without any days off but that the tips meant you could save thousands (with all the work there was nowhere to spend the money was the thinking) and of course there is the romance of travelling the world.

 

Of course, back then cruising was more exclusive, people who cruised knew that tipping - and tipping well - was part of cruising.

 

Also I guess cruise lines recruited waiters and bar staff from the UK back then as well as they were the jobs I was considering applying for. And back then there was no minimum wage in the UK (I was earning £1.20 an hour as a hotel receptionist when I graduated, and got all the way up to the lofty heights of £8k as an assistant manager don'cha know lol).

 

I suppose I've always equated cruise lines with tipping - they go hand in hand for me and have done since back then. And this was in the days when it wasn't common to tip in the UK but it was still de rigeur on cruise liners. Now that they recruit from poorer countries and pay even less than they did when I was applying 30 years ago I just see the tips as even more part of the whole cruise thing I guess.

 

The modern equivalent I guess is young Brits working on luxury yachts for a couple of seasons which is increasingly popular - for the tips, for the adventure, the travel, the experience. Maybe luxury yachts are the modern equivalent of the exclusivity cruises used to give and now the cruise lines are mass market holidays with folk getting upset about their tips as they don't understand the heritage (although admittedly it wasnt auto added back then - maybe there was no need to back then).

 

But yes, I agree, it's an amazing opportunity for many of them (as long as they are fairly compensated of course)

 

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Edited August 7, 2017 by claudiniusmaximus

[Maime]

Ageeed. Modern cruises are the same price as land asked all inclusive package holidays. Therefore appeal to the same market. If you have the money it's nice to tip. I tip chambermaids in hotels because I did that job once z ( and it's horrid). I will pay the service charge but take off the charge for son (13). £6 a day is fine per cabin as it assumes you have had £60 worth of food/ service whatever.

[Florry]

Wow! I didn't know that used to happen. So what was it exactly? Cruise ship staff protesting low wages at the dockside?

 

 

 

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https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/business/2012/jul/01/arcadia-cruise-ship-indian-crew

 

 

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[claudiniusmaximus]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/business/2012/jul/01/arcadia-cruise-ship-indian-crew

 

 

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[emoji50]

 

 

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[Goosebear Mum]

Personally I don't think what they would earn at home is all that relevant - they aren't at home.

 

Yes the salary is more than they'd get if they stayed in, say, India but they aren't in India. They are on an American/British ship serving mostly British people *mostly* sailing European and American waters.

 

 

Also the notion that they are freely choosing to work for p&o while partially true isn't really a completely honest account. Their circumstances are what are driving them to "choose" to work for them. It's a bit like saying that care workers over here on minimum wage on zero hours contracts are "choosing" to do so. It's a Hobson's choice isn't it, really.

 

 

 

 

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The fact they're working on American/ British ships is mostly irrelevant. They are working in international waters, provided with full board and a wage, albeit very low by our standards. Tips on top. This amounts to far more than they can earn at home. The ship crew are not employed by P&O but by an agency in their own home countries. I work with Indian colleagues who are employed by an Indian company. They are paid an Indian Salary. No way would I expect them to be paid a uk salary, else they'd be amongst the most wealthy back home. Though if they were, then maybe our jobs wouldn't have been outsourced... it's all relative. Shoving our culture onto others only creates more issues.

[insanemagnet]

There is no way anyone working at a service level on P&O is earning £35K.

£12 per day per cabin, how much does the cabin steward get? 1/3? If so £4 per day, so £28 per week.

 

How many cabins do they work? 15? If so £420 a week which is £1,820 a month from the service charge and then add on to that the basic pay £250 a month on the numbers others have quoted.

 

Add on the additional tips people say they give, no idea but an estimate of 1/5 of the cabins giving £20, so £60 a month doesn't seem beyond reality.

 

That would give £2,130 a month.

 

As their pay will be tax free add on that notional element, and something for the board and lodging they get, the total is a fairly significant amount.

[whoops]

Genuinely puzzled by this.

 

What service do you get from a cabin steward that deserves additional tipping, but more importantly can deteriorate?

 

They make the bed, give a quick clean around, stick in fresh towels, and are gone.

 

I'll help you out. Previously the room was always ready when we returned from breakfast. We had fresh towels when placed in the bath. Tea/Coffee was not renewed. OK these are minor things but found it strange that things that were previously done before tipping stopped as soon as the tip was given.

[whoops]

Totally agree. Strange post, so uncouth, particularly to mention the amount proffered.

 

I'm sorry you found my mentioning the amount of tip given "uncouth". It was mentioned in anticipation of someone suggesting that I had tipped an insulting amount and no wonder the service fell short. I have answered the other point in my previous post. You just can't win with some people.

[claudiniusmaximus]

The fact they're working on American/ British ships is mostly irrelevant. They are working in international waters, provided with full board and a wage, albeit very low by our standards. Tips on top. This amounts to far more than they can earn at home. The ship crew are not employed by P&O but by an agency in their own home countries. I work with Indian colleagues who are employed by an Indian company. They are paid an Indian Salary. No way would I expect them to be paid a uk salary, else they'd be amongst the most wealthy back home. Though if they were, then maybe our jobs wouldn't have been outsourced... it's all relative. Shoving our culture onto others only creates more issues.

 

 

 

 

Your Indian colleagues are paid Indian wages because they are based in India.

 

 

But the point is not about relative wages between countries it's about the service charge and whether or how to pay it.

 

Recognising that the staff on board earn as little as 75p an hour as an objective fact. And then recognising that I'm spending £5k on my cruise as an objective fact. And then recognising that when those two figures are compared side by side then I'm more than willing to pay my £6 a day service charge.

 

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Edited August 8, 2017 by claudiniusmaximus

[claudiniusmaximus]

£12 per day per cabin, how much does the cabin steward get? 1/3? If so £4 per day, so £28 per week.

 

How many cabins do they work? 15? If so £420 a week which is £1,820 a month from the service charge and then add on to that the basic pay £250 a month on the numbers others have quoted.

 

Add on the additional tips people say they give, no idea but an estimate of 1/5 of the cabins giving £20, so £60 a month doesn't seem beyond reality.

 

That would give £2,130 a month.

 

As their pay will be tax free add on that notional element, and something for the board and lodging they get, the total is a fairly significant amount.

 

 

 

I repeat. The guardian article gives the amounts earned. Why keep on repeatedly quoting the same made up numbers when you admitted in your earlier post you had "no idea" if the figures you're using are correct.

 

 

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[claudiniusmaximus]

Duplicate

[claudiniusmaximus]

Oh. I've got an idea....

 

Every time someone posts a thread on tipping we should all immediately start making comments about Donald Trump. Every time that happens on the celebrity forum the administrators delete the thread [emoji38][emoji38][emoji38][emoji38][emoji38]

 

For my part I just want to apologise about banging on and on. As Florry and others have said these threads always get a bit iffy. I shall *try*'to restrain myself from commenting further lol.

 

 

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[whoops]

One useful thing I discovered on my last trip is that if you have a large amount of onboard spend you can remove your tips and donate the equivalent amount (or any amount you have left over) from your spend allocation 24 hours before the cruise ends. You can only spend so much on goods from the shops, meals and trips so this seems to me to be a good option for some people.

[Millers]

One useful thing I discovered on my last trip is that if you have a large amount of onboard spend you can remove your tips and donate the equivalent amount (or any amount you have left over) from your spend allocation 24 hours before the cruise ends. You can only spend so much on goods from the shops, meals and trips so this seems to me to be a good option for some people.

 

 

 

That's fine "if you have a large amount" of onboard spend in the first place. Which if you do that, you are not exactly paying the tips, P and O are.

 

 

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[FluffyFiFi]

I am sorry as I didn't want this to become a debate on the rights and wrongs of tipping as I know people feel strongly on both sides of the argument. My question was based on the assumption that the tip/service charge was to reward those you come in contact with who make your cruise special. I would not want to give my money to surly waiters or cabin stewards who are not competent which is what we had on Arcadia. I know the amount on P&O is reasonable and I always felt strongly that we leave the auto gratuities on as it makes life simple and is fair. As for how much the staff are paid is up to the cruise line and their conscience. I was thinking of tipping my cabin steward on a daily basis in the region of £5 a day, bar staff £1 per drink, wine waiter £3 an evening and our table waiters £5 per night but this would be dependent on service and I was trying to find out if people got better service by tipping directly as that what I was considering. Although we are freedom dining we always have a table for two so we could easily pay as we go. Not sure about the Maitre D but after reading the positive reports on this thread about Britannia it doesn't matter as I'm going to leave the tips on and stop overthinking the situation.

[Florry]

Some of the maths assumes that everything we tip goes to the exact people who served us, in the same proportion as it used to in the old system.

 

 

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[Millers]

A little OTT me thinks

 

 

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[grapau27]

Let's not work on the assumption that all of the crew are suffering a terrible job. I'm sure at times they get sick of the passengers, the constant smiles, being away from home, the shifts and hard work,but there are flip sides. For some it's a way of earning a decent income with good camaraderie and an opportunity to see the world. I know this doesn't apply to everyone but some of the crew like their job.

 

 

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Good post i agree with you.

 

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[dgs1956]

Oh. I've got an idea....

 

Every time someone posts a thread on tipping we should all immediately start making comments about Donald Trump. Every time that happens on the celebrity forum the administrators delete the thread [emoji38][emoji38][emoji38][emoji38][emoji38]

 

 

 

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I'm all for that . I can't believe that this has kicked off again.

The OP gave up after one more post and this is now well over 100.

[grapau27]

I'm sorry you found my mentioning the amount of tip given "uncouth". It was mentioned in anticipation of someone suggesting that I had tipped an insulting amount and no wonder the service fell short. I have answered the other point in my previous post. You just can't win with some people.

I agree with you.

I give an amount first time i meet cabin steward and a little if they get something for me.

I autopay tips and give extra on last night.

Sometimes i wonder if they think they have been given enough because the next time you see them they actually speak or ignore you.

 

 

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[grapau27]

Oh. I've got an idea....

 

Every time someone posts a thread on tipping we should all immediately start making comments about Donald Trump. Every time that happens on the celebrity forum the administrators delete the thread [emoji38][emoji38][emoji38][emoji38][emoji38]

 

For my part I just want to apologise about banging on and on. As Florry and others have said these threads always get a bit iffy. I shall *try*'to restrain myself from commenting further lol.

 

 

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You have every right to post and IMO the ones who complain the most probably give little or no tips.

 

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[daiB]

I am sorry as I didn't want this to become a debate on the rights and wrongs of tipping as I know people feel strongly on both sides of the argument. My question was based on the assumption that the tip/service charge was to reward those you come in contact with who make your cruise special. I would not want to give my money to surly waiters or cabin stewards who are not competent which is what we had on Arcadia. I know the amount on P&O is reasonable and I always felt strongly that we leave the auto gratuities on as it makes life simple and is fair. As for how much the staff are paid is up to the cruise line and their conscience. I was thinking of tipping my cabin steward on a daily basis in the region of £5 a day, bar staff £1 per drink, wine waiter £3 an evening and our table waiters £5 per night but this would be dependent on service and I was trying to find out if people got better service by tipping directly as that what I was considering. Although we are freedom dining we always have a table for two so we could easily pay as we go. Not sure about the Maitre D but after reading the positive reports on this thread about Britannia it doesn't matter as I'm going to leave the tips on and stop overthinking the situation.

The bar staff are tipped already it is in the price of the drinks you buy.

 

The problem with this thread is that there is so much misinformation.

 

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[grapau27]

I am sorry as I didn't want this to become a debate on the rights and wrongs of tipping as I know people feel strongly on both sides of the argument. My question was based on the assumption that the tip/service charge was to reward those you come in contact with who make your cruise special. I would not want to give my money to surly waiters or cabin stewards who are not competent which is what we had on Arcadia. I know the amount on P&O is reasonable and I always felt strongly that we leave the auto gratuities on as it makes life simple and is fair. As for how much the staff are paid is up to the cruise line and their conscience. I was thinking of tipping my cabin steward on a daily basis in the region of £5 a day, bar staff £1 per drink, wine waiter £3 an evening and our table waiters £5 per night but this would be dependent on service and I was trying to find out if people got better service by tipping directly as that what I was considering. Although we are freedom dining we always have a table for two so we could easily pay as we go. Not sure about the Maitre D but after reading the positive reports on this thread about Britannia it doesn't matter as I'm going to leave the tips on and stop overthinking the situation.

I would leave the tips on but report whoever gave you poor service to Guest Services or the relevant supervisor and let them sort it.

 

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