Service Charge Breakdown

[wdsted]

It's really not as complicated as folks make it out to be. If you don't tip, request a DSC refund from the service desk and don't leave cash tips. If you don't want to pay 18% of the value for the unlimited booze package, don't select that perk. There's really no reason to be defensive about whether or not you tip and no reason to preach at people who don't. If you feel like judging non-tippers, I guess that's your prerogative.

[BillNY]

Just a few random thoughts and ideas that popped into my head while reading this thread:

What would happen if a passenger balked at paying the 18% "gratuity" or "service charge" on their bar bill or the payment of the UBP (either the "free" version or the paid one)?

 

One of the "free at Sea" amenities I was offered was described as receiving "free gratuities", not "free service charge".

 

I think most of the time when a thread like this is started, the OP is really asking about the charge, not to debate it's appropriateness or "should I pay it if not?", but rather as an attempt to gauge a reasonable "extra" amount to tip, if at all. I see that as a reasonable question to ask.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[NLH Arizona]

Just a few random thoughts and ideas that popped into my head while reading this thread:

What would happen if a passenger balked at paying the 18% "gratuity" or "service charge" on their bar bill or the payment of the UBP (either the "free" version or the paid one)?

 

One of the "free at Sea" amenities I was offered was described as receiving "free gratuities", not "free service charge".

 

With regard to the 18% added to the UBP, I've suggested in the past when someone has complained about it that they tell NCL they don't want to pay it and and they can see for themselves what will happen. Now, if I didn't want to pay it, I just wouldn't pick that as a perk, but that is just me.

 

Someone called and asked why with the "free at Sea" promotion it is call gratuities instead of service charge and NCL said that is how marketing refers to it.

[Two Wheels Only]

What would happen if a passenger balked at paying the 18% "gratuity" or "service charge" on their bar bill or the payment of the UBP (either the "free" version or the paid one)?

The 18% is automatically added to the UBP when purchased or promo.

 

I think most of the time when a thread like this is started, the OP is really asking about the charge, not to debate it's appropriateness or "should I pay it if not?", but rather as an attempt to gauge a reasonable "extra" amount to tip, if at all. I see that as a reasonable question to ask.

This is what is really happening....

The OP already has a tip amount that they are willing to pay (or have paid) in mind and wants to know (from a group of random strangers) if that is a "good" amount.

 

Some will say " you paid the DSC, that's enough".

Some will say "you should still tip if you want to tip".

Some will say "remove the DSC and give cash to the people that you want to tip".

 

At the end of the day, the OP will do whatever they had in mind before posting. Whether or not they get the assurance that they were hoping for depends on who answers.

[Wendy&Grumpy]

No, as noted, their compensation is a combination of wages and "incentive" program, which is the DSC. The reason that all cruise lines use the "service charge" method is two fold: it tries to engender a "team concept" for the hospitality staff, so that failure of one person, resulting in reduction of DSC, affects everyone (to a small extent) in the "team". It also allows the cruise line to shift the onus for reducing a crew member's compensation from the cruise line to the passengers.

 

The only thing that is "guaranteed" to a crew member is the minimum total compensation, which is currently $614/month for a 40 hour work week, plus overtime at 125% of the base wage for hours over 40/week. This totals out to about $1500/month. If the base wage, overtime, and DSC totals more than this, per their contract, they get that much, if the DSC is reduced, their wages can drop to the above minimum.

 

Which at minimum is $18,000 annually - over 2.5X their average annual salary.

 

I find it humorous some of you are such champions of the worker...these folks are at best somewhat marginalized in that respect. There is a reason cruiseline employees are largely from Eastern Europe, Philippines, etc. Yes, working for cruise line is presumably a better opportunity than they have at home, but they are definitely exploited somewhat.

 

If you have that big of a moral obligation and outrage over this you should simply stop cruising. [emoji23]

 

 

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Exactly.

[cruiser1955a]

Right.

 

The difference is that NCL pays real salaries to the crew, and does not use the tipping model that many mass market lines use. That is why it doesn't matter how the DSC is divided, because put simply - it is not shared with the crew, and it is not a tip.

 

Maybe it's just semantics, but "Service charge" to me implies "Tips". "Cruise fare" implies "cost of room, board, and amenities". When resorts charge a "Resort fee", they specifically say it covers your parking, and use of pool, etc., not gratuities. We know that's just a way for them to advertise a lower room price, when you're actually paying more.

NCL is already charging an automatic 18% on food and beverages for "gratuities". People wondering how much extra to tip certain employees has every right to question how much of their money has already been given as a "gratuity" from DSC to their steward, or butler, or whoever else. It's just practical financial sense.

NCL has explained that it goes toward crew incentives, so there is no set breakdown of who gets what, and I'm fine with that. I just think it confuses the issue when they call it a "service charge", because people assume that means "gratuity".

[NLH Arizona]

NCL has explained that it goes toward crew incentives, so there is no set breakdown of who gets what, and I'm fine with that. I just think it confuses the issue when they call it a "service charge", because people assume that means "gratuity".

Actually NCL says it goes toward their salary and incentive programs, not just incentives.

[cruiser1955a]

 

The argument that it's anyone's business where a tip goes is another one that I don't understand. When I eat in a restaurant I don't grill the owner about where the tip goes that I left on the table. I know it's split between a number of people, but I don't know who gets what, and I don't care. I figure they have a system that works for them, so why should I care? But, the argument goes on...

 

In my state, if the restaurant or bar owner puts any portion of his employees tips in his business's pocket, he breaks the law. You should be asking your favorite servers (on land or sea) whether they have to split their tips. Servers aren't offended by the question. They appreciate you asking. Just because a "tip system" works for the business, it doesn't mean it works for the servers. They need the job, and are afraid to complain.

[fshagan]

In my state, if the restaurant or bar owner puts any portion of his employees tips in his business's pocket, he breaks the law. You should be asking your favorite servers (on land or sea) whether they have to split their tips. Servers aren't offended by the question. They appreciate you asking. Just because a "tip system" works for the business, it doesn't mean it works for the servers. They need the job, and are afraid to complain.

 

US tax laws and state laws really don't coincide with what the cruise lines do. For instance, the IRS can force restaurants to apply a "service charge" instead of allowing tips and force all employees to claim the amount of the "service charge" that is given to them (the restaurant is allowed to keep a portion of the "service charge"). This is rarely used, but if the IRS notes a large portion of the employees claiming less than 8% of their meal bookings in tips during an audit they can impose it, and it can be done in all 50 states.

 

A similar sounding system is when you have large parties, and a mandatory "service charge" is added to the bill by the restaurant that is then split to the servers. The restaurant can take a portion of it in some states, but evidently not in your state.

 

In all of the restaurants I know of here in California the servers split their tips with the hostess, bar tender and busser "voluntarily". I don't know if the practice is common in other states, but in California servers get California minimum wage at $10.50 for all hours worked, plus tips. And tipping custom is higher here than elsewhere (I would never tip less than 15% for lunch, and never less than 20% for dinner, and often move up to 22%).

 

Cruise lines don't adhere to our individual laws, though, so our understanding of the words "gratuity", "tip" and "service charge" don't really apply. For the US and Canada, NCL applies a charge to your bill daily that you have the option of removing. It doesn't matter what they or we call it because it is what it is.

[BunnieBear]

We've paid our DSC up front which represents almost 10% of our cruise price, for this reason I consider we have already adequately tipped. This isn't parsimony, I've had to work hard to afford this holiday and the DSC rewards everyone that's worked hard for you rather than just those lucky enough to be in the customer facing roles.

 

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[POA1]

US tax laws and state laws really don't coincide with what the cruise lines do. For instance, the IRS can force restaurants to apply a "service charge" instead of allowing tips and force all employees to claim the amount of the "service charge" that is given to them (the restaurant is allowed to keep a portion of the "service charge"). This is rarely used, but if the IRS notes a large portion of the employees claiming less than 8% of their meal bookings in tips during an audit they can impose it, and it can be done in all 50 states.

 

Cite the law. I mean the real IRC Title 26 sections.

[Love my butler]

Apparently they matter to certain cruisers as well.

 

I'll never understand the people who will spend thousands on a cruise but then turn around and complain about $13 a day. Just leave the DSC as is and tip extra as you feel it's appropriate. It ain't Rocket Science...

 

Jim

 

Principles matter to some people. Others are more than happy to take the easy way.

[Quilting_Cruiser]

In my state, if the restaurant or bar owner puts any portion of his employees tips in his business's pocket, he breaks the law. You should be asking your favorite servers (on land or sea) whether they have to split their tips. Servers aren't offended by the question. They appreciate you asking. Just because a "tip system" works for the business, it doesn't mean it works for the servers. They need the job, and are afraid to complain.

 

 

I "should" be asking them? I completely disagree. It's none of my business and TBH I don't care. I'm a good tipper and tip even more for great service. That's all I need to be concerned about--not what happens to the money after I've laid it on the table. Once I give my tip, it's no longer my money and IMO no longer my business. I can honestly say I have never on any occasion questioned nor even wondered about it. My son was a server and he would not have appreciated someone asking him about his tips. If the "tip system" hadn't worked for him, he would have looked for another job. It baffles me that people think another person's compensation is any of their business. And, I don't believe it matters that my tip is part of their compensation--what I pay for a product or service to any business is always part of someone's salary, but that doesn't mean I have the right to question them about it. Others may not see that as rudeness, but I certainly do so I wouldn't do it.

[IrieBajan54]

Shareholders of NCL and many other companies in the service industry are laughing all the way to the bank. The DSC is the tip and is automatic. No worries as it makes the process simple for me. Tipping EXTRA is an individual decision and that person's money to do as he/she wants.

[Scatterbrain42]

You are correct, I guess you will be stuck paying for it. But on the brighter side, many from across the pond have been asking that their not be a DSC and all crew's wages should be included in their cruise fare and that is what NCL gave you.

 

I am not stuck with it, i am fine with it.. but for most europeans this makes more sense just include it in the price don't tell us pay people enough and use whatever internal rules you have.

 

Then i on top of that can decide when/who to tip. Since now for example it was unclear take the UBP package it seems some countries got 18% added some didn't i can promise you last 2 times i didn't get it added my guess because under our laws you can't call something 'free' and then ask money for it unless you add 99 ** signs explaining it all and NCL just didn't want to bother as a result prices of the cruise are higher.

 

Its also a culture thing as a dutchie i don't mind tipping (for some reason we have that rep.) but i don't like the fact i need to pay simple because the person needs it to make a normal living that he/she deserves.

 

So this new NCL rule is a good step if you ask me since it means they are paying them more normal in the first place.

 

Daniel.

[NLH Arizona]

I am not stuck with it, i am fine with it.. but for most europeans this makes more sense just include it in the price don't tell us pay people enough and use whatever internal rules you have.

 

Then i on top of that can decide when/who to tip. Since now for example it was unclear take the UBP package it seems some countries got 18% added some didn't i can promise you last 2 times i didn't get it added my guess because under our laws you can't call something 'free' and then ask money for it unless you add 99 ** signs explaining it all and NCL just didn't want to bother as a result prices of the cruise are higher.

 

Its also a culture thing as a dutchie i don't mind tipping (for some reason we have that rep.) but i don't like the fact i need to pay simple because the person needs it to make a normal living that he/she deserves.

 

So this new NCL rule is a good step if you ask me since it means they are paying them more normal in the first place.

 

Daniel.

I just don't see the logic that folks will complain about paying the DSC, but then have no issue paying it if it is included in the fare....it just boggles my mind.

 

I also think including the DSC in the fare for some non-tipping countries is a very good move, since they can no longer removed it, and I really wish they would do it here in the US.

[Porky55]

Would you feel any better if they simply rolled the DSC into the cruise fare raising the price by $13.99 a day (or whatever it is now). It is simply an internal accounting issue and something very silly to get worked up over.

 

I just don't see the logic that folks will complain about

 

 

 

I also think including the DSC in the fare for some non-tipping countries is a very good move, since they can no longer removed it, and I really wish they would do it here in the US.

 

This is exactly what they do on cruises departing Australia and we accept it with a smile (and sometimes gritted teeth) - and we do not then tip. We trust the employer (cruise line) to care for their employees.

Edited August 20, 2017 by Porky55

[Two Wheels Only]

I just don't see the logic that folks will complain about paying the DSC, but then have no issue paying it if it is included in the fare....it just boggles my mind.

Ostrich Syndrome.

[Scatterbrain42]

I just don't see the logic that folks will complain about paying the DSC, but then have no issue paying it if it is included in the fare....it just boggles my mind.

 

I also think including the DSC in the fare for some non-tipping countries is a very good move, since they can no longer removed it, and I really wish they would do it here in the US.

 

Its not that i disagree with you but there is one effect. Now under the new program you pay the DSC (we assume) as part of the price of the ticket (prepaid) and don't see these things on your bill each day while on the trip i prefer that. I never liked the idea of tips as punishment idea (since if you don't tip or recall it you are cutting in their base wages if you ask me) its a tool for bosses in that way for them to make sure people are nice to clients if not you simple don't get full pay. While if its a real tip its a extra/bonus and its me sharing my good mood you have created with me. It might be a small difference and probably very culture based but it always has bothered me about underpaying people this way.

 

I guess the reason why this stays such a hot topic on boards and in real life is because of these differences in culture and i think NCL's step is good since it removed the 'fake' including and now means you really have to complain or talk to the person if something is really off and you feel the need to go stronger then not tipping instead of directly effect their base income.

 

Daniel.

[Two Wheels Only]

Ostrich Syndrome.

 

 

... don't see these things on your bill each day while on the trip i prefer that.

See what I mean? ;p

[Scatterbrain42]

See what I mean? ;p

 

Its a very human reaction, i also dislike the tax people to keep taking more money at different time points. Its nothing against taxes just take it and don't keep reminding me. Again i consider this 'tip' unreal its just part of their pay and part of what i pay for their work should have been included in the bill in the first place.

 

Daniel.

[fshagan]

I guess the reason why this stays such a hot topic on boards and in real life is because of these differences in culture and i think NCL's step is good since it removed the 'fake' including and now means you really have to complain or talk to the person if something is really off and you feel the need to go stronger then not tipping instead of directly effect their base income.

 

Some of it is cultural, especially for those in "non-tipping" cultures where, evidently, only Americans have been tipping and they have all been giggling behind our backs (Google "London tipping guide" for examples of what Americans are told, whereas Brits assure us giving a tip in England is tantamount to insulting the worker). Rolling it into the fare for people from the EU, the UK, and Australia makes a lot of sense.

 

For new cruisers I think it's a "surprise" (yes, we all know you can read the cruise contract, do your research, etc.) And no one likes surprises that cost you money. Most of us were surprised after our first cruise; maybe it was the total cost of the drinks we had, or the tips we gave out in little envelopes on the last night. Or the things on board that cost when you don't think they should (we know a couple who is upset that the RCL "movies under the stars" charged for little boxes of popcorn).

 

Next, they can quit lying about the price of the cruise and, when you search, let you put in the size of your party and see the "from" cost for actual available cabins, for your whole party, including port fees and taxes, like Disney does.

Edited August 21, 2017 by fshagan
A non-profane word was starred out because CC does not know the King's English. So I made it "giggling".

[Porky55]

Ostrich Syndrome.

 

 

Honestly have no idea what a DSC is!!! Don't think there is a ship that leaves from an Australian port that charges this!! Again it must be included?? So unable to comment or complain about it.

And that would be "Emu Syndrome" in this part of the world [emoji57]

The only thing that staff openly ask of passengers is that we complete the cruise questionnaires, and give them credit there, as this is the only way they can be graded while cruising in Southern waters, I assume. Very simple [emoji106]

Unfortunately we do still pay the 18% ship tax [emoji83]on drinks......and there's lots of those!!!!

Edited August 21, 2017 by Porky55

[txagfan]

If only we could get a separate board for discussions of DSC, 18% gratuity, etc..:

 

 

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[Scatterbrain42]

Honestly have no idea what a DSC is!!! Don't think there is a ship that leaves from an Australian port that charges this!! Again it must be included?? So unable to comment or complain about it.

And that would be "Emu Syndrome" in this part of the world [emoji57]

The only thing that staff openly ask of passengers is that we complete the cruise questionnaires, and give them credit there, as this is the only way they can be graded while cruising in Southern waters, I assume. Very simple [emoji106]

Unfortunately we do still pay the 18% ship tax [emoji83]on drinks......and there's lots of those!!!!

 

Well that 18% will also be 'included' once the 'premium all inclusive' will be standard (and non optional) in all countries as is their plan here is the list :

 

https://www.ncl.com/fr/en/all-inclusive

 

On a practical level i can see NCL saving lots of time in their systems to allow for all the current different ways per country and having it unified also probably will cut down on the questions at the service desk.

 

Daniel.