Hawaii calls for 60 day cruise ship ban

[erin21497]

1 hour ago, cartman3132 said:

Thank you!  I've been saying this to everyone who asks me if I'm cancelling any of my trips.  I have the same odds to get it down the street at the grocery store as I do on vacation because mass transit is still happening.  In the 10 day incubation someone could jump on a plane from Seattle with 2 layovers to Boston and cross 20,000 people.  But no, the media thinks that cruising is the worst thing ever but being packed A to D in the NYC subway after 5% of them just got off a plane from Orlando is perfectly acceptable.

Exactly.  The media for some reason has decided to make cruises a scapegoat in this.  Pretty unfair if you ask me.

[TSUmom]

16 minutes ago, erin21497 said:

Exactly.  The media for some reason has decided to make cruises a scapegoat in this.  Pretty unfair if you ask me.

I agree.  We are flying to Cancun tomorrow and I would feel much better if I were getting on a cruise ship instead of an airplane...

[GA Dave]

Maybe he is following history.  Here is a snip from the Wikipedia article on the 1918 Flu Pandemic.  Note the last part in bold:

 

Several Pacific island territories were particularly hard-hit. The pandemic reached them from New Zealand, which was too slow to implement measures to prevent ships, such as the SS Talune, carrying the flu from leaving its ports. From New Zealand, the flu reached Tonga (killing 8% of the population), Nauru (16%), and Fiji (5%, 9,000 people).^[100]

Worst affected was Western Samoa, formerly German Samoa, which had been occupied by New Zealand in 1914. 90% of the population was infected; 30% of adult men, 22% of adult women, and 10% of children died. By contrast, Governor John Martin Poyer prevented the flu from reaching neighboring American Samoa by imposing a blockade.^[

[Isabella Benjamin]

Let's be clear about why Italy has put their entire country under quarantine.

 

Their hospitals are at 200% of capacity right now.  When someone shows up with double interstitial pneumonia and is over 65, they are not being treated at all.  If someone shows up with double pneumonia under 65 with certain underlying health conditions they do not get treated.  Only the people with a very good chance of surviving are getting treated, and almost everyone who is bad enough to show up at the hospital with the virus already has pneumonia.

 

Italy has a superior health system to the US and are far more ready to handle the virus and it is crushing them.  

 

We are so far behind in every way.  It still may be weeks before we can adequately test.  The WHO offered the US tests, but for some odd reason we refused them.  

 

We have no way to gauge how bad the virus is here, because we have no way of testing people.  The way the virus spreads on a plane is mainly to the people directly around the sick person.  We're talking about the two rows in front, back,  and next to that person.  Being captive on a cruise ship for a full week exposes hundreds of people who then can expose hundreds more within the week. Plus the crew who can start infecting passengers the moment they get on the boat.  

 

Because people are not heeding the inadequate warnings, I'm afraid that after spring break we are going to be in a far worse place than we are today. 

 

[Farts]

6 minutes ago, Isabella Benjamin said:

Let's be clear about why Italy has put their entire country under quarantine.

 

Their hospitals are at 200% of capacity right now.  When someone shows up with double interstitial pneumonia and is over 65, they are not being treated at all.  If someone shows up with double pneumonia under 65 with certain underlying health conditions they do not get treated.  Only the people with a very good chance of surviving are getting treated, and almost everyone who is bad enough to show up at the hospital with the virus already has pneumonia.

 

Italy has a superior health system to the US and are far more ready to handle the virus and it is crushing them.  

 

We are so far behind in every way.  It still may be weeks before we can adequately test.  The WHO offered the US tests, but for some odd reason we refused them.  

 

We have no way to gauge how bad the virus is here, because we have no way of testing people.  The way the virus spreads on a plane is mainly to the people directly around the sick person.  We're talking about the two rows in front, back,  and next to that person.  Being captive on a cruise ship for a full week exposes hundreds of people who then can expose hundreds more within the week. Plus the crew who can start infecting passengers the moment they get on the boat.  

 

Because people are not heeding the inadequate warnings, I'm afraid that after spring break we are going to be in a far worse place than we are today. 

 

That seems weird. Why wouldn't you put them on the vent if they needed it? your statement in red makes no sense

 

I am an American doc. IDK if italy has a superior health care system than the states. Their government support them a lot more. Testing is a joke here in the states.

[Isabella Benjamin]

2 minutes ago, Farts said:

That seems weird. Why wouldn't you put them on the vent if they needed it? your statement in red makes no sense

 

I am an American doc. IDK if italy has a superior health care system than the states. Their government support them a lot more. Testing is a joke here in the states.

They aren't putting them on vents because they have run out.  You have to choose who gets the vents and who does not.  200% capacity means there simply isn't enough to go around.

 

This is one of several things I've read about what's going on in Italy:

 

"From a well respected friend and intensivist/A&E consultant who is currently in northern Italy: 1/ ‘I feel the pressure to give you a quick personal update about what is happening in Italy, and also give some quick direct advice about what you should do.

First, Lumbardy is the most developed region in Italy and it has a extraordinary good healthcare, I have worked in Italy, UK and Aus and don’t make the mistake to think that what is happening is happening in a 3rd world country.

The current situation is difficult to imagine and numbers do not explain things at all. Our hospitals are overwhelmed by Covid-19, they are running 200% capacity.

We’ve stopped all routine, all ORs have been converted to ITUs and they are now diverting or not treating all other emergencies like trauma or strokes. There are hundreds of pts with severe resp failure and many of them do not have access to anything above a reservoir mask.

Patients above 65 or younger with comorbidities are not even assessed by ITU, I am not saying not tubed, I’m saying not assessed and no ITU staff attends when they arrest. Staff are working as much as they can but they are starting to get sick and are emotionally overwhelmed.

My friends call me in tears because they see people dying in front of them and they con only offer some oxygen. Ortho and pathologists are being given a leaflet and sent to see patients on NIV. PLEASE STOP, READ THIS AGAIN AND THINK.

We have seen the same pattern in different areas a week apart, and there is no reason that in a few weeks it won’t be the same everywhere, this is the pattern: 1)A few positive cases, first mild measures, people are told to avoid ED but still hang out in groups, everyone says not to panick 2)Some moderate resp failures and a few severe ones that need tube, but regular access to ED is significantly reduced so everything looks great

3)Tons of patients with moderate resp failure, that overtime deteriorate to saturate ICUs first, then NIVs, then CPAP hoods, then even O2. 4)Staff gets sick so it gets difficult to cover for shifts, mortality spikes also from all other causes that can’t be treated properly. Everything about how to treat them is online but the only things that will make a difference are: do not be afraid of massively strict measures to keep people safe, if governments won’t do this at least keep your family safe, your loved ones with history of cancer or diabetes or any transplant will not be tubed if they need it even if they are young. By safe I mean YOU do not attend them and YOU decide who does and YOU teach them how to.  Another typical attitude is read and listen to people saying things like this and think “that’s bad dude” and then go out for dinner because you think you’ll be safe. We have seen it, you won’t be if you don’t take it seriously. I really hope it won’t be as bad as here but prepare."

[Farts]

52 minutes ago, Isabella Benjamin said:

They aren't putting them on vents because they have run out.  You have to choose who gets the vents and who does not.  200% capacity means there simply isn't enough to go around.

 

This is one of several things I've read about what's going on in Italy:

 

"From a well respected friend and intensivist/A&E consultant who is currently in northern Italy: 1/ ‘I feel the pressure to give you a quick personal update about what is happening in Italy, and also give some quick direct advice about what you should do.

First, Lumbardy is the most developed region in Italy and it has a extraordinary good healthcare, I have worked in Italy, UK and Aus and don’t make the mistake to think that what is happening is happening in a 3rd world country.

The current situation is difficult to imagine and numbers do not explain things at all. Our hospitals are overwhelmed by Covid-19, they are running 200% capacity.

We’ve stopped all routine, all ORs have been converted to ITUs and they are now diverting or not treating all other emergencies like trauma or strokes. There are hundreds of pts with severe resp failure and many of them do not have access to anything above a reservoir mask.

Patients above 65 or younger with comorbidities are not even assessed by ITU, I am not saying not tubed, I’m saying not assessed and no ITU staff attends when they arrest. Staff are working as much as they can but they are starting to get sick and are emotionally overwhelmed.

My friends call me in tears because they see people dying in front of them and they con only offer some oxygen. Ortho and pathologists are being given a leaflet and sent to see patients on NIV. PLEASE STOP, READ THIS AGAIN AND THINK.

We have seen the same pattern in different areas a week apart, and there is no reason that in a few weeks it won’t be the same everywhere, this is the pattern: 1)A few positive cases, first mild measures, people are told to avoid ED but still hang out in groups, everyone says not to panick 2)Some moderate resp failures and a few severe ones that need tube, but regular access to ED is significantly reduced so everything looks great

3)Tons of patients with moderate resp failure, that overtime deteriorate to saturate ICUs first, then NIVs, then CPAP hoods, then even O2. 4)Staff gets sick so it gets difficult to cover for shifts, mortality spikes also from all other causes that can’t be treated properly. Everything about how to treat them is online but the only things that will make a difference are: do not be afraid of massively strict measures to keep people safe, if governments won’t do this at least keep your family safe, your loved ones with history of cancer or diabetes or any transplant will not be tubed if they need it even if they are young. By safe I mean YOU do not attend them and YOU decide who does and YOU teach them how to.  Another typical attitude is read and listen to people saying things like this and think “that’s bad dude” and then go out for dinner because you think you’ll be safe. We have seen it, you won’t be if you don’t take it seriously. I really hope it won’t be as bad as here but prepare."

geez. not even intubate ppl with dm?

 

there are literally millions with dm in the us