Will This Child Be Let Onboard?

[seashore]

I know of a family where the biological father has given up all parental rights. There is also a restraining order whereby he is not to know the whereabouts of the child or the child's family. (I don't know the particulars nor do I want to). The mother wants to take the minor child on a cruise but can not have the biological father sign the "Permission to Travel" document that needs to be noterized. She also does not have any divorce papers. Will her child be able to go on a cruise and get through customs? She want's to travel out of the U.S.

[frequent traveler]

each particular line has its own requirements - however, she should carry a full copy of the restraining order with her in case any question arises. Providing a copy of the restraining order to the line in advance would be helpful also (use TA). I asume the child has a passport and the parent has the passport and will be using for travel.

FT

[Cotton]

Surely the cruiseline would accept the restriction order at face value. (I would also take along the legal document that he signed when giving up the child.) The child does not need a passport - only a certified birth certificate. I don't forsee any problems, but you might want to check with the cruiseline directly.

[GrannyJ]

Definitely check with the cruiseline....in fact, check TWICE, in case you get two different answers. A couple of years ago, I cruised with my granddaughter, who has a different last name than mine, on RCI and even though they told me I would need to bring notarized permission from both parents (which I did), they never once asked to see the forms at check-in. On the other hand, Carnival required me to fax them the signed forms before they would issue our tickets on our last cruise. Better safe than sorry.

[waitin4acruise]

I have a child that will be 16 when we cruise im not the parent but have sole custody guess i should call cc but i dont see any problems ill just bring my custody papers and her birth cert i guess but i will call cc

[jennew]

I have cruised with my 7 year old twice. I never had to provide any type of information about his father. I don't think you can fly out of the country as easily, however the court papers will be all you need. Just prove that you are the sole custodial parent and you are good to go.

[Sheffie]

I have a child that will be 16 when we cruise im not the parent but have sole custody guess i should call cc but i dont see any problems ill just bring my custody papers and her birth cert i guess but i will call cc

 

Also, since she will be 16, you will need a gov't issued picture ID.

 

Have a great cruise!

[seashore]

Thank you for all of your information. The suggestion to check twice is a good one. It seem that she gets a different answer each time. The cruise line has stated that the Port Authority is in charge and that the cruise line is just covering themself by requireing the proper forms.

[Jodyflower]

I am curious about one thing - you state that the father has given up his parental rights to the child. If that is the case, legally, then the mother has sole custody of the child. The child is solely in the rights of the mother and the mother alone. Does she have a court document to prove this? If so, then that document should be presented at check in if she is questioned. If she does not have documentation proving that she is the sole parent/has sole custody of the child, then she must have permission from the biological father.

[jenjens1023]

Do cruise lines ask single/widowed/divorced moms where the father is? I can't imagine that they do. So would this be any different?

 

When passports become required for all international travel it will be necessary to get a release from the father when applying for the passport.

[cherylandtk]

Do cruise lines ask single/widowed/divorced moms where the father is? I can't imagine that they do. So would this be any different?

They don't ask where he is, but they do ask for his written, notarized permission. Varies by cruiseline, and even by port agent, but if you read the fine print under Travel Documentation at each cruiselines site, you will find a variety of requirements.

[Jodyflower]

From personal experience, I can say that being married for the second time with two children from a previous marriage, I have had to submit a notarized letter from the biological father giving his permission for the children to accompany myself and my spouse on our cruises.

 

As for what the poster is asking: she is asking if a parent has given up his parental rights, can the child sail without his permission.

 

Legally, if the parental rights have been given up and the custodial parent can prove this, then no, a notarized letter is not needed. If the custodial parent cannot provide legal documentation of being the sole parent or of having sole custody, then yes, they need a notarized letter from the other parent.

[Jodyflower]

Do cruise lines ask single/widowed/divorced moms where the father is? I can't imagine that they do. So would this be any different?

 

When passports become required for all international travel it will be necessary to get a release from the father when applying for the passport.

 

It is necessary NOW to get permission from the non-custodial parent if you are applying for a passport for a child. I know because I have had to do this recently. You should check your facts before posting a comment like that as this is a not a matter to be taken lightly. Flame away if you want but your information is not correct.

[Bill S]

I read OP's post several times. As an attorney who has worked in family law issues, I noted she said that dad had given up his parental rights but she did not indicate if there was a court order to that effect. It COULD make a difference on what documents she MIGHT have to show depending on whether it is just an agreement between her and dad or a court order terminating his rights. IMO, the cruiseline will be the best source for what she will need to show.

The US is a signatory to a Hague Convention dealing with prevention of kidnapping of children by parents. For international travel, airlines and cruise lines usually want proof that the non-traveling parent has consented to the child leaving the country. It is not a foolproof system, however.

[dkjretired]

Each cruiseline should be consulted but you may get different opinions from them depending upon where the ship is going. The cruiselines are basically following the laws of various countries that they travel to with their ships and each of these varies. Also, remember that you can have all the legal papers in the world but the country you visit does not have to accept papers from an American court.

[jenjens1023]

I actually do know my facts, I just worded it incorrectly (and no one else has EVER done that on any of these boards!). I was trying to say that if she applies for a passport for this child anytime it will be necessary for her to get a release from the father. I shouldn't have thrown in the information about passports being required in the future for all international travel. My high school English teachers would have crossed that part out as being unnecessary and confusing. Can you ever forgive me?

 

I hesitated to even respond because it looks defensive, but I have major self-esteem issues and I hate feeling stupid.

 

Why is it called flaming??

[cherylandtk]

I was trying to say that if she applies for a passport for this child anytime it will be necessary for her to get a release from the father.

In her case, where she states that the father has given up his parental rights, (although she does not state in what manner) the rules would be different. If she has a legal document to prove sole custody, then only she has to approve the passport application:

 

3. One parents appears, signs, and submits primary evidence of sole authority to apply (such as one of the following):

• Child's certified U.S. or foreign birth certificate (with translation, if necessary) listing only applying parent; or
  
• Consular Report of Birth Abroad (Form FS-240) or Certification of Birth Abroad (Form DS-1350) listing only applying parent; or
  
• Court order granting sole custody to the applying parent (unless child's travel is restricted by that order); or
  
• Adoption decree (if applying parents is sole adopting parent); or
  
• Court order specifically permitting applying parent's or guardian's travel with the child; or
  
• Judicial declaration of incompetence of non-applying parent; or
  
• Death certificate of non-applying parent

The above was taken from the state department website, and applies to minors under the age of 14. Different rules apply to minors between 14-17. http://travel.state.gov/passport/get/minors/minors_834.html

[Jodyflower]

I actually do know my facts, I just worded it incorrectly (and no one else has EVER done that on any of these boards!). I was trying to say that if she applies for a passport for this child anytime it will be necessary for her to get a release from the father. I shouldn't have thrown in the information about passports being required in the future for all international travel. My high school English teachers would have crossed that part out as being unnecessary and confusing. Can you ever forgive me?

 

I hesitated to even respond because it looks defensive, but I have major self-esteem issues and I hate feeling stupid.

 

Why is it called flaming??

Jen - I'm sorry if I came off harsh. This is a sensitive issue personally for me that I have been through. Of course things are worded incorrectly all the time (I am guilty of it as well). I just got concerned about the OP being in a sticky situation and to make sure they have as much correct information as possible so as not to jeopardize their cruise.

 

Flaming is a term that I learned on CC and from what I've seen on the boards, it's when there is a disagreement and people hash back and forth (although that was not my intention with you). You don't need to ask for forgiveness although I ask that of you for my original curt response to your post. :)

[gfsmith]

I always traveled alone with my children. Noone ever asked or said anything. Never thought i would need thier fathers permission....lol If she is the biological mother it shouldn't even be a issue. If you were able to obtain passports i wouldnt think you would need anything else.

 

 

I don't want to get flamed i am just telling from my personal experience. I never needed anything but my childrens Birth Certificate to travel.

 

With the new passport laws coming into effect, i did check into getting a passport and it states that i will need to prove that i have sole custody if the absent parent can not attend to obtain a passport for the child.

 

I did at one time take a friend of my son with us on one cruise and then we had to have a noterized statement from the father of the child because i was not his parent or gaurdian.

 

Once again this is just my experience, just hope it helps answer some of your questions.

[seashore]

Thank you all for your input... To compound the situation, she has re-married and I believe that her child does not know that her husband is not his father. My fear is that there may be a drama scene at the port in front of the child if she is questioned about the whereabouts of the biological father. She has stated that she has no court papers and that the lawer is in another state. She also fears that the biological father could find out the whereabouts of his child (that he has given up all parental rights) if she contacts the lawyer.

I also fear that she may have difficulty in the foreign country when she attempts to reboard the ship.

This party has already made final payment so they would be under penalty with the cruiseline if they were to cancel. What a mess!

[SWEETNLOW2005]

I just carry my custody paper staing i have sole custody. I also took 1 of my daughters friend and we had letters from mother and father, they didnt even bother to ask for either child's info. My friend also brought along her 13 year old granddaughter not a problem didnt have to show any documents. Althought this was on Carnival not sure about any other lines

[Timmys_mom]

I read OP's post several times. As an attorney who has worked in family law issues, I noted she said that dad had given up his parental rights but she did not indicate if there was a court order to that effect. It COULD make a difference on what documents she MIGHT have to show depending on whether it is just an agreement between her and dad or a court order terminating his rights. IMO, the cruiseline will be the best source for what she will need to show.

 

The US is a signatory to a Hague Convention dealing with prevention of kidnapping of children by parents. For international travel, airlines and cruise lines usually want proof that the non-traveling parent has consented to the child leaving the country. It is not a foolproof system, however.

Excellent information. I was a paralegal and worked with family law.

 

Everyone seems to be confusing the issues. As Bill stated above, there is a big difference between a man walking out of the house saying "Keep the kid, he's yours" and a court terminating his parental rights. If a court terminated his rights, it is as if she conceived and delivered this child by herself. The father has no rights.

 

Even if she was awarded "sole physical custody" and "sole legal custody" that does not terminate his parental rights, just severely restricts them.

 

She has stated that she has no court papers and that the lawer is in another state. She also fears that the biological father could find out the whereabouts of his child (that he has given up all parental rights) if she contacts the lawyer.

If her attorney disclosed her whereabouts to a man whom she not only has a restraining order against, but who has also "given up all parental rights" he would probably be disbarred.

 

If she is concerned about her attorney leaking information, she should contact the clerk of court for the county in which the legal actions were filed and get a copy. She never even has to tell her attorney that she is requesting these documents.

[Nliedel]

Copy of the restraining order and a note from the judge, notorized, should be MORE than sufficiant. Any lawyer should be able to get this for you.

[Timmys_mom]

Regardless of her intention to cruise, for someone in her situation, it is imperative that she get herself certified copies of her divorce papers, restraining order, and the order terminating parental rights (if one exists). It makes a lot of sense to have more than one copy stored at home.

 

As I mentioned, this can be accomplished by contacting the Clerk of Court's office in the county in which the actions were filed.

[jenjens1023]

Jen - I'm sorry if I came off harsh. This is a sensitive issue personally for me that I have been through. Of course things are worded incorrectly all the time (I am guilty of it as well). I just got concerned about the OP being in a sticky situation and to make sure they have as much correct information as possible so as not to jeopardize their cruise.

 

Flaming is a term that I learned on CC and from what I've seen on the boards, it's when there is a disagreement and people hash back and forth (although that was not my intention with you). You don't need to ask for forgiveness although I ask that of you for my original curt response to your post. :)

 

Of course I forgive you...consider it water under the bridge ('scuse the pun).