DeSantis files suit against Biden Admin and the CDC

[DCGuy64]

Just found out about this over on the Royal thread a minute ago.

 

[Beardface]

This was always going to be the follow-up to NCL's rebuttal earlier in the week.  Now the CDC is going to have to argue in court on why they are setting a different standard for the cruise industry than they are for the airline industry, for example.  And they're going to have to come with facts.

 

Would not be surprised to either see the CDC settle this out of court and open cruising based on the NCL guidelines, or the lawsuit fasttracked through Florida courts.

[DCGuy64]

I'm glad to see FL pushing ahead with this lawsuit. I read a post on here last week that it was just "saber rattling." Apparently not!

[B Midged]

53 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

Just found out about this over on the Royal thread a minute ago.

What a tool.  

 

[Tippyton]

Just came up in the WH briefing.  Circle-Back deferred as usual and said the CDC works off of data.  Reporter brought up July 4th, the airlines, NCL.  Total BS resonses.

[MichiganBound]

This lawsuit will likely go no-where.  Cruising is a much different environment than flying and, as such, is rightly being treated differently.  It will be easy to argue in a courtroom...if it actually gets that far.  Nothing to see here.

Edited April 8, 2021 by MichiganBound

[Tippyton]

1 minute ago, MichiganBound said:

This lawsuit will likely go no-where.  Cruising is a much different environment than flying and, as such, is rightly being treated differently.  It will be easy to argue in a courtroom...if it actually gets that far.  Nothing to see here.

There is no prolonged contact on a cruise ship.  No more than a restaurant, casino, or airport terminal.

[DaCruiseBug]

3 minutes ago, MichiganBound said:

This lawsuit will likely go no-where.  Cruising is a much different environment than flying and, as such, is rightly being treated differently.  It will be easy to argue in a courtroom...if it actually gets that far.  Nothing to see here.

 

The cruise lines will be able to easily argue that they have had tens of thousands of customers since Covid hit and not a single breakout on any ship.

[harkinmr]

11 minutes ago, DaCruiseBug said:

 

The cruise lines will be able to easily argue that they have had tens of thousands of customers since Covid hit and not a single breakout on any ship.

I don't believe that the cruise lines are a party to this lawsuit, so they will not be able to argue anything.  The State of Florida filed the suit on its own behalf.  Have not read the complaint, so I do not know what the stated grounds are or the kind of relief being sought.  I agree with MichiganBound that it will not be successful.  Courts generally give wide latitude to government agencies, particularly in the area of public health.

 

EDIT:  In addition, while certain cruise lines have started up in Asia and Europe, they have sailed under very restricted and limited circumstances.  They have also been subject to procedures and protocols set out by their host countries.  What the cruise lines are asking the CDC to do is eliminate the CSO and any restrictions and protocols under it.  Not the same.

Edited April 8, 2021 by harkinmr

[DaCruiseBug]

11 minutes ago, harkinmr said:

I don't believe that the cruise lines are a party to this lawsuit, so they will not be able to argue anything.  The State of Florida filed the suit on its own behalf.  Have not read the complaint, so I do not know what the stated grounds are or the kind of relief being sought.  I agree with MichiganBound that it will not be successful.  Courts generally give wide latitude to government agencies, particularly in the area of public health.

 

EDIT:  In addition, while certain cruise lines have started up in Asia and Europe, they have sailed under very restricted and limited circumstances.  They have also been subject to procedures and protocols set out by their host countries.  What the cruise lines are asking the CDC to do is eliminate the CSO and any restrictions and protocols under it.  Not the same.

The cruise lines don't have to be a part of the lawsuit. All they need to file is an amicus brief.

[Mary229]

As pro as I am about let's get this thing moving again.......

I have never understood why the Cruise lines are letting everyone else carry their water.  If I were a politician I would not expend my political capital nor my taxpayers' dollars to help the cruise lines.  I am not going to write my reps to help them make money.  Let them stand up and say something.  At least Del Rio has started speaking up

Edited April 8, 2021 by Mary229

[harkinmr]

4 minutes ago, DaCruiseBug said:

The cruise lines don't have to be a part of the lawsuit. All they need to file is an amicus brief.

Amicus briefs are generally allowed in federal and state appellate courts only.  In federal or state trial courts they are only allowed by permission of the judge.

[DaCruiseBug]

It's also important to understand that the State of Florida is most likely working together with the cruise industry to amass pressure against the CDC. Just the other day Carnival said they were looking at moving their ships outside of the US and now Florida is filing a lawsuit.

 

The reality is that lawsuits take months and years. This is meant to pressure the CDC into allowing cruise lines to sail by this summer.

[Yesimapirate]

24 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

As pro as I am about let's get this thing moving again.......

I have never understood why the Cruise lines are letting everyone else carry their water.  If I were a politician I would not expend my political capital nor my taxpayers' dollars to help the cruise lines.  I am not going to write my reps to help them make money.  Let them stand up and say something.  At least Del Rio has started speaking up

You would if thousands of your states jobs were dependent on it.  

 

I don't think many truly understand the economic impact cruising has on the Florida economy.   From hotels, buses, farmers,  food distributors,  line suppliers, that are obvious to less obvious things like parking attendants, the cruise line office staff,  even audio-visual suppliers all take a significant hit when ships aren't sailing. You better believe we want our politicians to keep us safe.   And safe means giving us a means other than the paltry $265/wk Florida unemployment.   Let people work!

[DCGuy64]

After reading multiple posts last year saying, among other things, that the major cruise lines would be bankrupt by the end of the year and that there would be no sailings anywhere in the world in 2020, or that it would be "years" until a vaccine, I've learned to be cautious about predicting what I "know" will or won't happen in the future. It's too easy to be proven wrong.

[njhorseman]

Per this article the cruise lines were caught off guard by this suit and several legal experts have already weighed in calling it a political stunt that isn't legally viable.

 

https://www.tampabay.com/news/florida-politics/2021/04/08/desantis-sues-cdc-to-get-cruises-restarted-experts-call-it-a-political-stunt/

Edited April 8, 2021 by njhorseman

[DCGuy64]

Just now, Yesimapirate said:

You would if thousands of your states jobs were dependent on it.  

 

I don't think many truly understand the economic impact cruising has on the Florida economy.   From hotels, buses, farmers,  food distributors,  line suppliers, that are obvious to less obvious things like parking attendants, the cruise line office staff,  even audio-visual suppliers all take a significant hit when ships aren't sailing. You better believe we want our politicians to keep us safe.   And safe means giving us a means other than the paltry $265/wk Florida unemployment.   Let people work!

Correct! Various estimates I've seen put the figure at about $53 billion annually, and that's just Florida. I'm amazed at the number of people who seem oblivious to just how devastating the pause in sailings has been for that state.

[drew69]

5 minutes ago, Yesimapirate said:

You would if thousands of your states jobs were dependent on it.  

 

I don't think many truly understand the economic impact cruising has on the Florida economy.   From hotels, buses, farmers,  food distributors,  line suppliers, that are obvious to less obvious things like parking attendants, the cruise line office staff,  even audio-visual suppliers all take a significant hit when ships aren't sailing. You better believe we want our politicians to keep us safe.   And safe means giving us a means other than the paltry $265/wk Florida unemployment.   Let people work!

Perhaps the politicians in Florida should raise the ridiculously low unemployment benefits in the state if they really cared.

[harkinmr]

13 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

Per this article the cruise lines were caught off guard by this suit and several legal experts have already weighed in c goinalling it a political stunt that isn't legally viable.

 

https://www.tampabay.com/news/florida-politics/2021/04/08/desantis-sues-cdc-to-get-cruises-restarted-experts-call-it-a-political-stunt/

Agreed.  This is more political theatre from the Governor.  If a lawsuit were to be brought it should first and foremost have been by the cruise lines, or the state joined by the cruise lines.  The suit is not likely to be successful.  They are asking that the court declare the CSO unlawful.  Not going to happen.  The alternative relief sought is for the court to order that cruise lines can sail with "reasonable" safety protocols.  The court is not going to determine what's "reasonable" and would throw it back at the CDC and the cruise lines leaving things as they are now and maybe taking even longer to resolve.

 

 

1202000920_FLORIDALAWSUIT.pdf

[njhorseman]

6 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

Correct! Various estimates I've seen put the figure at about $53 billion annually, and that's just Florida. I'm amazed at the number of people who seem oblivious to just how devastating the pause in sailings has been for that state.

No,  CLIA's guesstimate of economic impact for 2019 was $55.5 billion for the entire US, not Florida,  and less than half, $ 25.1 billion, was direct spending. The remaining $30 billion is a largely  unverifiable estimate of indirect economic impact.  While $ 25.1 billion isn't chump change, it's drop in the bucket of the US GDP, which was $21.43 trillion in 2019.

 

Here's the full CLIA public relations puff piece:

 

https://cruising.org/-/media/research-updates/research/2019-usa-cruise-eis.ashx

 

[DCGuy64]

This article puts the cost to FL at around $22 billion and is from February. Regardless of the actual number, it's been devastating to Floridians and the sooner the ban (or whatever you choose to call it) is lifted, the better.

https://wusfnews.wusf.usf.edu/economy-business/2021-02-07/cruise-industry-recovery-in-florida-likely-to-be-a-long-haul

 

[Yesimapirate]

25 minutes ago, drew69 said:

Perhaps the politicians in Florida should raise the ridiculously low unemployment benefits in the state if they really cared.

Yes, maybe they can pay for it with the payroll taxes generated by all the cruise releated jobs that aren't currently working. 

 

Let's try to function in the real world and not in a political blog.   The solution to lost jobs isn't paying people more money to not work.

 

Let me add,  I really hope you don't have any friends,  family,  neighbors or customers who rely on those businesses or they might change their opinion of you.

Edited April 8, 2021 by Yesimapirate

[DCGuy64]

6 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

No,  CLIA's guesstimate of economic impact for 2019 was $55.5 billion for the entire US, not Florida,  and less than half, $ 25.1 billion, was direct spending. The remaining $30 billion is a largely  unverifiable estimate of indirect economic impact.  While $ 25.1 billion isn't chump change, it's drop in the bucket of the US GDP, which was $21.43 trillion in 2019.

 

Here's the full CLIA public relations puff piece:

 

https://cruising.org/-/media/research-updates/research/2019-usa-cruise-eis.ashx

 

Thank you for the correction. I remember reading the $53 billion figure sometime last year, in various media, but I don't remember which one. In any event, there's a lot of money invested in the services and infrastructure of cruising in Florida, and the longer this pause drags on, the worse it is for those whose livelihoods depend on it.

[DCGuy64]

6 minutes ago, Yesimapirate said:

Yes, maybe they can pay for it with the payroll taxes generated by all the cruise releated jobs that aren't currently working. 

 

Let's try to function in the real world and not in a political blog.   The solution to lost jobs isn't paying people more money to not work.

 

Let me add,  I really hope you don't have any friends,  family,  neighbors or customers who rely on those businesses or they might change their opinion of you.

I'm tempted to screenshot people on Cruise Critic who apparently think cruise industry workers are expendable, then on my next cruise, I'll say to the waiters, stewards, etc. "this individual doesn't care if you starve." It's a good thing people don't have to reveal their actual names on here. 🤣😆

[MichiganBound]

53 minutes ago, Yesimapirate said:

I don't think many truly understand the economic impact cruising has on the Florida economy.   From hotels, buses, farmers,  food distributors,  line suppliers, that are obvious to less obvious things like parking attendants, the cruise line office staff,  even audio-visual suppliers all take a significant hit when ships aren't sailing. 

Of course people understand this.  Many industries all over the country have been impacted negatively by COVID.  The hotel industry in most places is really suffering.  The restaurant industry in most places is really suffering.  Most things that are travel-related are doing poorly.  This is in no way unique to Florida. Also the entertainment industry (concerts/theatre/sports venues) has mostly ground to a halt everywhere.  Not just in Florida.  Sadly, many jobs in many places have been impacted.

 

Anywhere large groups gather is a risky environment.   It's simply a fact.