Florida wins so Carnival can sail with kids

[TNcruising02]

7 minutes ago, MamallamaAndDaddy said:

If the judge's ruling stands I see this as a way for the cruise lines to pretty much open up as business as usual. With the caveats that 1, Carnival likes to say we are abiding by the CDC reccommendations and 2, they have already passed final payment and had to cancel people's bookings for the July cruises. Do you think Carnival would say  Oh hey, you can cruise after all or wait until September since they already played out plans through August on what protocols1? Either way will make some people angry. I myself am pro anything that takes us back to normality.

I think it's too late for Carnival to flip flop for July and August cruises.  I think they will move forward with their current plans.  They have no clue when and if the CDC will come back with less restrictive requirements that are accepted by the state of Florida or the judge.  Worst case scenario if they can't use the 5% CDC restriction as an excuse to deny customers over that percentage, they will sail with what they have.  This is my guess.

If the CDC comes back and allows more kids under 12, it's possible that Carnival will adjust the requirements for August cruises.

Edited June 20, 2021 by TNcruising02

[TooManyWakeUpsTilWeSail]

26 minutes ago, MamallamaAndDaddy said:

The Florida law was never about cruising. It was and is about telling the people that want a vaccine passport to stuff it.

Well since vaccine passports exist nowhere in the USA under government issuance 4 months after its first mention, it appears to be a complete waste of legislative effort.  Maybe next time they will wait until Thanksgiving to recommend stuffing anything.

[TNcruising02]

9 minutes ago, regoodwinjr said:

Vaccinations for schools has been accepted because of a Supreme Court decision 100 years ago but it has never been for a business to require them.

This is an excellent point!  Nobody has to show proof of vaccination to eat at a restaurant, go shopping, attend an event, fly on a plane, cruise, or anything like that.  There is a reason.

Edited June 20, 2021 by TNcruising02

[AtSeaWithChris]

18 minutes ago, caniuseit said:

You are correct.  It’s not about cruising.  It’s about DeSantis pandering to his base for political gains

 

if it was truly about the overstep of “vaccine passports” they would have addressed schools also.  
 

look below.  Florida has no problem requiring a whole host of vaccines for lots of activities.  Yup. Pure pandering. 
 

oh.  And there are plenty of “whiny babies” on all sides of this issue

 

 

http://www.floridahealth.gov/programs-and-services/immunization/children-and-adolescents/school-immunization-requirements/index.html

It's not about vaccines in general it's about this particular vaccine. That is why schools are irrelevant in this regard. But it really depends on what the globalist cabal gets accomplished throughout the world that will determine international travel and protocols required. And it's not looking good for freedom to choose.

[BlerkOne]

9 minutes ago, regoodwinjr said:

Vaccinations for schools has been accepted because of a Supreme Court decision 100 years ago but it has never been for a business to require them.

Sure businesses can require them for employees, so why not customers? If you don't want to cruise with us, you can cruise with them. Free enterprise. The American Dream. Not unlike the homophobic baker.

[AtSeaWithChris]

4 minutes ago, TooManyWakeUpsTilWeSail said:

 

Well since vaccine passports exist nowhere in the USA under government issuance 4 months after its first mention, it appears to be a complete waste of legislative effort.  Maybe next time they will wait until Thanksgiving to recommend stuffing anything.

lol I have no argument there. But... maybe what Florida did was posture and that was enough to dissuade the government from pursuing it further?

[sailingships]

5 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

I think it's too late for Carnival to flip flop for July and August cruises.  I think they will move forward with their current plans.  They have no clue when and if the CDC will come back with less restrictive requirements that are accepted by the state of Florida or the judge.  Worst case scenario if they can't use the 5% CDC restriction as an excuse to deny customers over that percentage, they will sail with what they have.  This is my guess.

If the CDC comes back and allows more kids under 12, it's possible that Carnival will adjust the requirements for August cruises.

A thought. Who is it that determined the lower amounts for the passenger capacities etc ? The CDC or the individual cruise lines ? I forget how that came about. If it was Carnival they can adjust the percentage higher for these cruises. Theres lots of available cabins on every ship/week right now.

[lobster1313]

1 minute ago, BlerkOne said:

Sure businesses can require them for employees, so why not customers? If you don't want to cruise with us, you can cruise with them. Free enterprise. The American Dream. Not unlike the homophobic baker.

Employers are required in most circumstances to provide health insurance to their employees so they are already involved in their employees personal healthcare but they have no relationship to their customers healthcare decisions.

[skridge]

7 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

This is an excellent point!  Nobody has to show proof of vaccination to eat at a restaurant, go shopping, attend an event, fly on a plane, cruise, or anything like that.  There is a reason.

Your right.  There is a reason and it's simple.  You don't spend a week on a plane, eating in a restaurant, or shopping at a store with the same group of people.   

[TNcruising02]

20 minutes ago, sailingships said:

A thought. Who is it that determined the lower amounts for the passenger capacities etc ? The CDC or the individual cruise lines ? I forget how that came about. If it was Carnival they can adjust the percentage higher for these cruises. Theres lots of available cabins on every ship/week right now.

misunderstood question

Edited June 20, 2021 by TNcruising02

[BlerkOne]

1 minute ago, regoodwinjr said:

Employers are required in most circumstances to provide health insurance to their employees so they are already involved in their employees personal healthcare but they have no relationship to their customers healthcare decisions.

Employers certainly aren't required to provide healthcare, hence the ACA. But foreign flagged ships are exempt in any case.

[TNcruising02]

4 minutes ago, skridge said:

Your right.  There is a reason and it's simple.  You don't spend a week on a plane, eating in a restaurant, or shopping at a store with the same group of people.   

Cruise lines have never required proof of vaccination or proof of good health to cruise in the Caribbean.  There have always been contagious diseases.

Edited June 20, 2021 by TNcruising02

[sailingships]

Just now, TNcruising02 said:

This is just a guess, but since the executive order states that businesses can use Covid-19 screening protocols, then possibly Carnival was going to use the CDC's 5% unvaccinated guidance as a way to deny passengers instead of denying them based on their vaccination status.  They would be denying them based on the CDC guidance.  Totally a guess.  

If the CDC comes back with something else that is approved in July, who really knows how Carnival will proceed.  But as of now, I think they have pretty much flushed out the majority of unvaccinated people from July and August cruises, other than some of the 12 and under asking for exemptions.

This had nothing to do with the vax. They lowered the passenger capacities down to 30-50% so it was hard to get a cabin unless you booked real early and then the prices were much higher. I think the prices will come down a lot when they increase the percentages or do away with that policy and go 100% again. 

[BlerkOne]

1 minute ago, TNcruising02 said:

Cruise lines have never required proof of vaccination or proof of good health to cruise in the Caribbean.  There have always been contagious diseases.

It was fine when cruise lines were going to require a doctor's approval before old people could cruise.

[balcony bound]

11 minutes ago, sailingships said:

A thought. Who is it that determined the lower amounts for the passenger capacities etc ? The CDC or the individual cruise lines ? I forget how that came about. If it was Carnival they can adjust the percentage higher for these cruises. Theres lots of available cabins on every ship/week right now.

I believe the lessening of passengers was to provide more space, social distancing.

[BlerkOne]

Just now, sailingships said:

This had nothing to do with the vax. They lowered the passenger capacities down to 30-50% so it was hard to get a cabin unless you booked real early and then the prices were much higher. I think the prices will come down a lot when they increase the percentages or do away with that policy and go 100% again. 

They lowered it so they could control social distancing, mobs, etc. And to have somewhere to quarantine passengers and patients.

[TooManyWakeUpsTilWeSail]

12 minutes ago, MamallamaAndDaddy said:

lol I have no argument there. But... maybe what Florida did was posture and that was enough to dissuade the government from pursuing it further?

Absolutely agree back & can’t think of a more likely reason than posturing.  

[AtSeaWithChris]

2 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

It was fine when cruise lines were going to require a doctor's approval before old people could cruise.

I disagree, I don't think it was fine with most people but we were all mostly in shock back then and didn't know what we know now. It was more of a desperate move to restart sailing.

[lobster1313]

14 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

Employers certainly aren't required to provide healthcare, hence the ACA. But foreign flagged ships are exempt in any case.

The employer healthcare mandate is still part of the ACA and it requires employers to provide health care coverage for businesses with over 50. Even small businesses with 25 employees still are required to offer coverage to get the small healthcare tax credits. Businesses also pay Medicare taxes so if they don't offer health coverage they still are involved in their healthcare.

Edited June 20, 2021 by regoodwinjr

[sailingships]

4 minutes ago, balcony bound said:

I believe the lessening of passengers was to provide more space, social distancing.

So if it wasnt the CDC, Carnival can change that at any time.  Even my cruise in Sept 2023 was effected.. I've been watching for that to change and we get a nice lower price due to all the extra available cabins. 

[TooManyWakeUpsTilWeSail]

5 minutes ago, regoodwinjr said:

The employer healthcare still part of the ACA and it requires employers to provide health care coverage for businesses with over 50. Even small businesses with 25 employees still are required to offer coverage to get the small healthcare tax credits. Businesses also pay Medicare taxes so if they don't offer health coverage they still are involved in their healthcare.

Just to clarify (and a lot of employers have moved positions down to part-time to circumvent):

 

The ACA defines a full-time employee as an individual who works an average of at least 30 hours per week

[SRQbeachgirl]

11 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

It was fine when cruise lines were going to require a doctor's approval before old people could cruise.

 

Actually no, it wasn't fine and there are plenty of CC threads blasting that proposal. Seems some people are fine with discriminating against a group of people as long as it isn't them being discriminated against.

[lobster1313]

9 minutes ago, TooManyWakeUpsTilWeSail said:

Just to clarify (and a lot of employers have moved positions down to part-time to circumvent):

 

The ACA defines a full-time employee as an individual who works an average of at least 30 hours per week

Yes. Understand that and it's irrelevant to the discussion. Employers have a long standing relationship to their employees healthcare but businesses have not for their customers.

[BlerkOne]

22 minutes ago, regoodwinjr said:

The employer healthcare mandate is still part of the ACA and it requires employers to provide health care coverage for businesses with over 50. Even small businesses with 25 employees still are required to offer coverage to get the small healthcare tax credits. Businesses also pay Medicare taxes so if they don't offer health coverage they still are involved in their healthcare.

Contractors aren't employees of a company. But you continue to argue about something irrelevant to foreign flagged cruise ships.

[AtSeaWithChris]

1 minute ago, BlerkOne said:

Contractors aren't employees of a company. But you continue to argue about something irrelevant to foreign flagged cruise ships.

What does that have anything to do with?