Kids and HAL-Future of Cruising?

[fernaje]

Before I get to the central theme of the post, I wanted to generally express how much I have enjoyed these posts and Cruise Critic as a whole as I have planned and now booked my family vacation to Alaska. As HAL seems to be a product in transition,I though my recent experince in booking a cruise might be instuctive and or helpful to some.

 

Some brief comments before I get started.

 

1. I genuinely feel the pain and frustration of the traditional cruiser. I think we have all experienced the sense of loss and frustration when a product or service we have been loyal to over the years suddenly changes direction and finds the old way of doing things less relevant and profitable. Let me also say that loyal HAL customers have had it pretty good over the years. I don't know of another leisure consumer product this capital intesnsive that has catered to such a narrow demographgic for so long.

 

2. From an outsiders perspective, and I certainly feel like an outsider at this point, the business reasons for attempting to broaden the appeal seem sound. HAL is reaching the same conclusion that almost all of the luxury resort hotel chains have come to. The investment required to produce a market regarded luxury resort product require that the product appeal to the broadest possible cross section of society in order to justify the return on investment. This is why Ritz Carlton and Four Seasons have kids programs and facilities that are second to none.

 

3. Many on this Forum tend to equate catering to families as going downscale or more mass market. Luxury cruisng and familiy friendly need not be mutually exclusive as the above mentioned land resort examples indicate. People are waiting longer to have kids and have more discretionary income when they do. These families often have no more interest in a party boat than a traditional cruiser does. You would be suprised how large this market is.

 

Now to my trip planning experience. My 7 year old boy is learning about glaciers in school and my 5 year old girl loves wildlife. A ligth bulb went on that a trip to Alaska might be fun for them. We have a budget of around 15,000 for the entire trip.

 

As I did my preliminary researched, I quickly came to the conclusion that due to the breadth and depth of product offered HAL is second to none. Our concerns emerged upon reading many of the posts where kids in general seem to be depicted as the primary impediment to loyal customers enjoying their cruise. Our travel agent calmed us down and told us that the ship she booked for us was undergoing a major refit to make it more luxurious and kid friendly and in fact, Holland American's whole marketing push is heading in the "inclusive" direction. With some hesitation we pulled the trigger, but the Agent had to overcome our objections to get us to book. I will say that we are still concerened. Whenever you have such a large discrepancy between what is being marketed and what loyal customers say they want it usually is recepie for problems amongst guests.

 

We now however know what we are getting into and certianly will be following the dress codes. To do anything else, in my view, would be disrecpectfull and in poor taste since they are cleary stated policies in writing.

 

I would ask that if you see a five year old girl politely asking for chocholate milk in the Neptune Lounge this summer you don't instinctivly recoil in horror and make her feel less comfortable for who she is or for the changes she may represent to you.

 

Best regards

[RevNeal]

fernaje,

 

WELCOME! You and your family are most definitely WELCOME! The crew and staff will be gracious and will receive you with open arms. And, dare I say, the vast majority of your fellow passengers will be gracious too. It being an Alaska Cruise, in the summer, you'll find a significant number of children and youth aboard ... you will not be alone.

 

As I did my preliminary researched, I quickly came to the conclusion that due to the breadth and depth of product offered HAL is second to none. Our concerns emerged upon reading many of the posts where kids in general seem to be depicted as the primary impediment to loyal customers enjoying their cruise. Our travel agent calmed us down and told us that the ship she booked for us was undergoing a major refit to make it more luxurious and kid friendly and in fact, Holland American's whole marketing push is heading in the "inclusive" direction. With some hesitation we pulled the trigger, but the Agent had to overcome our objections to get us to book. I will say that we are still concerened. Whenever you have such a large discrepancy between what is being marketed and what loyal customers say they want it usually is recepie for problems amongst guests.

 

It is so good to read about a Travel Agent who doesn't take the stereotype -- even the stereotype that we have generated here on this board! -- as if it were the absolute truth. Please do not be concerned about how you and your family will be received. I suspect that you will find that most of the posters here have a bark that is much worse than their bite. :D

 

Alaska is GLORIOIUS ... and, truly, nothing beats the Decks of a HAL ship for experiencing it! Cruise ... and have a blessed, safe, and AMAZING time.

[NapTown Jim]

Hiya Fern

 

Don't let a few grumpy old curmudgeons spoil your impression here. My family will be looking very hard at an Alaskan cruise sometime within the next 3-5 years. It will be a family vacation the likes of which we have never taken and it is my hope that my now 2 year old nephew will enjoy it.

 

May I suggest you take a look at Oosterdam and Westerdam first? My impression is that those are the two ships that has the best kid facilities in the HAL fleet. Those ships will be the ones I suggest to my mother and sister if/when we decide to book.

 

Have a great time!

[jhannah]

I have met and observed lots of kids on Holland America ships. They are welcome, and get lots of attention from the crew and "grandparental" attention from older passengers. As a general rule, there is no real issue. Like many things in life, a scant few can taint the impressions of many. A couple of experiences with out-of-control kids whose parents don't give a fig sadly burns a very negative image in the minds of many folks.

 

I think it's wonderful to take kids on a cruise. They need to be introduced to this upscale experience when they're young, so they will be well equipped for similar social conditions later on in life. The learning opportunities in Alaska are significant.

 

So go and enjoy your family cruise. You'll have a great time. While I'm sure there's an occasional perpetual grump out there who doesn't like the sight of kids, you will find the vast majority of HAL passengers very receptive to properly behaved young people.

 

Good luck!

[bepsf]

Fern--

 

Welcome to our little slice of heaven!

 

There was an article in the recent Mariner's magazine about a family whose two children have over 150 days on HAL - the boy even learned how to swim in the swimming pool aboard Rotterdam(VI)

 

You sound like a very caring type of parent - the kind who is has an active interested in your kids and keeps them engaged by taking trips like this. We need more parents like you.

 

Alaska is probably one of the best places to take kids cruising - there's so much interesting history and natural scenery. I'm sure you'll have a great time on your HAL cruise!

 

BTW - If I see your daughter hanging out in the Neptune, I might challenge her to a game of Scrabble

;)

[ekerr19]

Welcome!

 

We have been cruising with our kids (as I posted on another thread) for many years. The each have about 75 days on HAL and have made a number of friends they are in touch with today.

 

A few days ago, my son told me he met a girl on myspace that he cruised with 4 years ago! She remembered him.

 

I think having the ability to cruise with your children is a wonderful thing. In addition to spending time together as a family, they are able to experience a great deal.

 

I think a good family cruise is experience depends on how much you prepare and educate your child(ren) for life on board. A ship is not necessarily a "playground", though it may feel that way at times, lol - and in my opinion those children whose parents take the time to teach them certain things about what is expected of them will have a better time.

 

Of course, very young children may be the exception - but it's important to know your childs limitations and not expect too much from them and put them in situations where they will be overwhelmed or tired (like a long dinner in the D/R).

 

As for the Neptune lounge, our kids frequently get juice, snacks, pastries etc. - we always make certain to introduce them to the concierge staff and advise which cabin we are in - again, good manners will go along way - sounds like you are on the right track. :)

 

I only witnessed one occassion in the Neptune that somewhat upset me, but the concierge handled herself quite well in spite of a passenger demanding to be helped "ahead of the kid." My son graciously agreed to let the other passenger ahead of him, but the concierge said no, my son was next in line (he was checking out a dvd) which I thought was great. It's difficult enough instilling good manners in children without having to explain the boorish behavior of some adults. :)

 

Happy family cruising - we are taking our children to Europe for the first time this summer. We will be on the Noordam - they can hardly wait, they are excited about the new ship, as we made them cruise on the old Noordam a few times and it was not their favorite ship. :)

[fridayeyes]

They need to be introduced to this upscale experience when they're young, so they will be well equipped for similar social conditions later on in life.

 

Hear, hear! I was told (on a different board) that children did not belong aboard a cruise ship, and that my family and I should hie ourselves to Disneyland or Chuck E Cheese. My immediate thought was "How will children ever learn proper social graces if they are never exposed to anything more rarefied than Chuck E Cheese? And do you really want to be around the product when a child so raised becomes an adult?"

 

Whenever we cruise with our son, we spend literally months beforehand 'practicing' for the ship, learning the silverware arrangements, saying please and thank you, which bread plate is whose, pulling mom's chair out for her, etc.

 

In order for traditions to survive, they must be passed on from generation to generation. IMHO, the best way for HAL to remain the stately, traditional line it is now is to welcome young families so that new generations will come to love HAL as dearly as the current passengers do.

 

Cheers,

 

Friday

[jhannah]

Whenever we cruise with our son, we spend literally months beforehand 'practicing' for the ship, learning the silverware arrangements, saying please and thank you, which bread plate is whose, pulling mom's chair out for her, etc.

How wonderful! Your son is very lucky, and your investment in training will serve him well throughout life. Oh that more parents would teach their kids these critical skills.

 

My son graciously agreed to let the other passenger ahead of him, but the concierge said no, my son was next in line (he was checking out a dvd) which I thought was great.

How wonderfully gracious of him! That's truly showing class. You're right ... it IS hard to teach kids when they often see poor examples from some of us oldsters.

[trixiee]

Hear, hear! I was told (on a different board) that children did not belong aboard a cruise ship, and that my family and I should hie ourselves to Disneyland or Chuck E Cheese. My immediate thought was "How will children ever learn proper social graces if they are never exposed to anything more rarefied than Chuck E Cheese? And do you really want to be around the product when a child so raised becomes an adult?"

 

Whenever we cruise with our son, we spend literally months beforehand 'practicing' for the ship, learning the silverware arrangements, saying please and thank you, which bread plate is whose, pulling mom's chair out for her, etc.

 

In order for traditions to survive, they must be passed on from generation to generation. IMHO, the best way for HAL to remain the stately, traditional line it is now is to welcome young families so that new generations will come to love HAL as dearly as the current passengers do.

 

Cheers,

 

Friday

 

This is exactly what we did to prepare our children for their first cruise. My sons were 12 and 15. And we were very proud of their behaviour. They may not ALWAYS remember their manners at home, but I do know, that at the very least, they know which utensils to use and when!

 

Proper table ettiquette must be learned at home first, and then practised!

 

I don't mind well-behaved children at all! It's the unruly one's that curl my backteeth!

[nevis92]

When given the choice to eat dinner in the dining room, or the Lido, my 8 and 10 year old enthusiastically choose the dining room. They love the experience of being served the different courses, choosing their menu items and interacting with the servers. The good manners they practice there definitely carry over to our dinner table at home!

[kryos]

I would ask that if you see a five year old girl politely asking for chocholate milk in the Neptune Lounge this summer you don't instinctivly recoil in horror and make her feel less comfortable for who she is or for the changes she may represent to you.

You have two very lucky kids. I only wish my parents had had the means to take me cruising when I was young.

 

A trip to Alaska would be a wonderful educational, not to mention fun, experience for kids your age, and believe me ... HAL will welcome them with open arms. So will most of the passengers. Staying in a suite entitling them to Neptune Lounge privileges is even better! :)

 

Your kids will find lots of others to pal around with since an Alaska cruise will be packed with families during the summer months.

 

The problem most passengers on HAL have with young kids is when the parents let them run amok all over the ship. Well-behaved kids just out to have a fun cruise are a pleasure to have around.

 

Frankly, my opinion would be that if someone who doesn't want to sail with children under any circumstances chooses to book an Alaska cruise during the summer months (when any idiot would realize that lots of families will be traveling together) then it's their tough apples if the presence of kids wrecks their cruise experience for them.

 

Take your kids on HAL to Alaska ... and don't forget to post about your experiences when you return.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[kryos]

Our concerns emerged upon reading many of the posts where kids in general seem to be depicted as the primary impediment to loyal customers enjoying their cruise. Our travel agent calmed us down and told us that the ship she booked for us was undergoing a major refit to make it more luxurious and kid friendly and in fact, Holland American's whole marketing push is heading in the "inclusive" direction.

During a presentation given by the cruise director and his staff on the Amsterdam this past month, he specifically told us that HAL's future marketing directions were two-pronged ... the longer, more exotic voyages demanded by their long-time older clientele (the folks with the time and means to take such a voyage), and the family market with their larger ships ... offering popular destinations geared to families traveling together ... generally seven-day itineraries.

 

It's this second market that is the precise reason why HAL has upgraded the children's facilities and programs on most of their ships, including all the Vista-class ones. Believe me, that Oasis is gorgeous ... palm trees, hammocks, a waterfall, etc. ... and it is totally off-limits to adults. I was only lucky enough to get to spend some time there on my recent Amsterdam sailing because we had no children aboard to utilize the facility. It was a 30-day itinerary.

 

If any of HAL's longtime loyalists really have a problem with children on their sailing, then it is incumbant on them to carefully select their itinerary and voyage length. Common sense would tell most people that a seven-day Alaska sailing in the summer months would not bode well for a children-free sailing.

 

Take your kids. They'll have a ball. And believe me, HAL will make them feel more than welcome ... as well most of the other passengers onboard.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[babyher]

Fernaje,

 

I think you will have a wonderful time, and what a great experience for your kids.

 

You are a wonderful parent:)

 

If I had shown an interest in glaciers and wildlife when I was 5 or 7, my parents would have gotten me an issue of National Geographic *LOL* but certainly not a cruise.:)

 

Have a great time and Enjoy:)

[fernaje]

Thanks for all of the advice and strongs word of encouragement.

 

Look forward to sharing the after trip review on the forum.

[mildavis]

My Husband and I and 2 children, ages 10 (almost 11) and 12 and 2 other families with 2 children each, all about the same ages, will be sailing the Zuiderdam on June 10th out of Vancouver. I was a little worried about the kids being the only ones and am glad to hear that hopefully there will be a boat load (pardon the pun) of kids. (Well-behaved of course) You have all eased my mind. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

 

Mildavis

[BobMartha]

Fern

 

All I can add is that we sailed to alaska last summer with our 10 and 8 yr old girls (who having been cruising since they are 2 and 4) and we as a family had the most amazing time that we are back on HAL for a second alaska sailing this summer. My wife and I in our early 40's became hooked with HAL several cruises ago and ask my daughters - HAL hands down for them and we have sailed on rc, carnival and celebrity. I can honestly say with great pride that my two girls enjoy the hal experience just as much as we do - dressing up and having dinner AS A FAMILY, starting with a cocktail/COKEtail and appetizers before dinner, the shows, the excursions, and I have to say they used the hand sanitizers in the lido more then any adult I saw (and I don't mean they were playing around!) they knew what they were for and why. Hey Ferm - when are you sailing!

 

Enjoy and welcome to the boards...they are addictive!

[NORTHSHOREPAIR]

Fern,

 

You will love cruising on HAL with the children. I think you will find that the families that travel HAL are not the same ones that allow their children to run amuck at Walmart and consider it a family outing.

We recently did the Oosterdam to the Mexican Riveria with our 14 year old son. He has been raised to say please and thank you, use an indoor voice, be respectful of others, and hold open doors for ladies and your elders. He had a wonderful time. Although there weren't as many in his age group as there would have been on maybe a Carnival ship, we knew this going in. (I contacted HAL about 2 weeks prior to sailing to ask how many were in the 13-17 age group). We also took this trip the third week of January which seems more of an adult vacation time verses spring break. However, he did meet 3 very nice kids in his age group and they spent a lot of time together. All 3 were also very polite and well mannered.

Our son was treated by the cruise line staff as being as important as anyone else, which threw our son a bit of a curve. Whether it was in the dining room, a Lido buffet, or just getting a pop at a bar, he felt he was important.

A couple of nights he elected to eat with his new friends in the Lido for dinner, which was fine as long as he gave us notice. However, on formal nights he was expected to schedule his time to be clean, dressed, and present for formal dining. Although dinners in the dining room were probably a little drawn out for him, there was never a complaint. He learned a little about patience in waiting for the next course and had a great time enjoying the dinner table conversation - where again he was treated like an adult because he behaved like one.

The youngest on our cruise was probably a year old, and I swear the happiest baby I've ever seen. The oldest - who knows. Some of those older people really hide their age well because they're so active. We had a great mix of people.

I think you'll have a wonderful cruise:)

 

Deb

[caviargal]

I began cruising at the age of 9. My 7 year old brother was also aboard and we both still very much enjoy cruising.

 

I believe that cruising is a wonderful family vacation. That being said, as an adult, I do try to plan my trips around times when the kids will be in school and not aboard This is mainly because of some really awful experiences with out of control children that were a major detriment to my enjoyment in the past. I prefer ships and lines that do not cater to families, such as Radisson, but cannot always afford to cruise with them.

 

I will also only cruise on ships were there are adults only areas, as my quiet time is important to me and I enjoy an all adult atmosphere. I want to lay by the pool with a book, nap and enjoy tranquility, as that is my idea of a perfect afternoon. It is difficult to come by when there are kids diving and splashing in the pools, so ships with adult pools are my preference.

 

When I do a land based trip to the Caribbean, it is to an adults only resort for the same reasons. When I am home, I tend to frequent restaurants where there are not a lot of children. Again, this is simply my preference.

 

I have a three year old niece whom I adore. When we spend time together, we go to parks, the beach and restaurants where kids are welcomed. I enjoy my time with her, but these are not places I would choose when not in her company. I do not let her bother other folks and also take her outside if she acts up when in a restaurant. Unfortunately, all too often I encounter others, on ships and on land, who are not as considerate. This is, IME, what turns people off on cruising where there are likely to be a lot of families.

[skylar64]

Bravo to you! Our family is about to go on our third HAL cruise, some have not been as family friendly catered as they are trying to get now. The Noordam is supposed to be very family/kid oriented and we hope to be very pleased. There are six kids all together with ages 5-14. They have always been respectful and courteous to fellow cruisers and I hope that those fellow cruisers will treat our youngsters with manners and kindness as well.

[ryansmemom]

We took our 3 year old grandson on a cruise with us. We also brought his parents along. (Unbeknownst to us his sister was there too!) He is also a very well mannered, well behaved child. Not perfect, but well behaved and mannerly. He was universally welcomed onboard. The Captain called him Shy Ry. His cabin was right across from the Neptune so he was able to run in by himself for cookies. Passengers and crew alike smiled and greeted him with pleasure.

 

Of course, our cruise was child oriented. We did not expect him to engage in adult activities. Nor did we expect to have those ourself. He ate in the dining room each evening, late seating. He is used to a late dinner at home. We tried early seating and it was actually too early for him. He was a late napper and a late morning sleeper.

 

He enjoyed wearing his tux and his blue blazer because he looked like his father and grandfather and got to spend the evening with princesses (his mother and I)

 

Enjoy your HAL cruise. You and your family will be welcome and treasured as much as my family were.

 

Linda

[grannynurse]

From all I've read on this board and others, and seen on cruise ships, it's not children that present problems, even when they are involved. It usually is parents who don't want to be parents.

 

The posts on this thread indicate that this attitude is certainly not present here.

 

As an example, we have friends who are long-time princess cruisers who had an encounter with a running and screaming 7 year old in the Horizon court at 2am. the child knocked over the wife, broke her glasses and spilled hot coffee .

The parents were no where in sight.

There are many other horror stories about UN-supervised children. This is the problem, NOT kids on cruise ships.

GN

[jhannah]

... the child knocked over the wife, broke her glasses and spilled hot coffee.

Ah! The perfect candidate for keelhauling. Where's revneal when you need him??? ;)