Art Auction dilema!!

[zebra36]

First to the Op, you did purchase an eye appealing picture, congratulations and thanks for providing a photo/link. There have been many excellent replies to this saga and I hope the people at PW do not ware you down. I may have missed all of the details but I would think that if the invoice referenced the painting by artist and title that should(?) be sufficient for your claim of ownership regardless of price, for pete's sake it is an auction. Good luck and enjoy YOUR picture.

[coolbolts]

There are pieces of this story that do not make sense. I have been buying art from Park West for years. When they put a piece of art up they know what they are selling as they bring the peice up on the computer based on the number you referenced in the back. An original piece of art is easily identifiable from a print and the auctioneer would quickly notice the difference. The also do a good job in describing the art and artist.

 

In you situation I doubt that is an original.

First most originals are not covered in glass for fear of offsetting the image onto the glass.

 

Second

The back of the picture would probably not be covered and would in fact be on stretched canvas instead of the paper you mentioned.

 

Third

To quickly get an end to this story have the piece authenticated by an art dealer.

 

Fourth

Most original paintings have the are signed in paint and not in pencil.

[Beach4me]

Great painting! Thanks for posting the pic for us all to see.

 

Have you contacted Carnival at all? I'd have a certified letter on its way to Bob Dickinson (cc'ing Guest Relations) in a heartbeat!

 

I complained about Park West. On the Liberty in January, the auctioneer was bidding against himself in the opening bids. AND, the helpers around the room were raising their hands and yelling like they had bids...only to have the piece declared "pass" with "NO BIDS"! Heck, he raised the price on one piece almost $1000 with false (no) bids. It was amazing. They leave a lot to be desired. I'm glad that you got one up on them!

 

Thanks for keeping us posted...and keep the updates coming!

[arabrab]

I did e-mail carnival. I also googled "auction disputes" and finally found one that wasn't online related and e-mailed them to see if they think I have a leg to stand on. So will see. I have a friend of a friend who is a patent lawyer but my husband doesn't think I should bother her with this.

 

I'd suggest you take a look at the Maine Antique Digest's law column for some further explanation of the Uniform Commercial Code, which specifically covers auctions of personal (vs. real estate) property.

 

Look at part 3 of this section: once the goods are sold the auctioneer may not withdraw the goods. Full column at

http://www.maineantiquedigest.com/articles/ethi0600.htm

 

Auction law is some of the very oldest case law, and there has been a LOT of litigation that has made it through the courts. If the picture is the one he held up and you bid on, you ought to keep it.

 

Barb

 

Section 2-328 reads:

(1) In a sale by auction if goods are put up in lots each lot is the subject of a separate sale.

(2) A sale by auction is complete when the auctioneer so announces by the fall of the hammer or in other customary manner. Where a bid is made while the hammer is falling in acceptance of a prior bid the auctioneer may in his discretion reopen the bidding or declare the goods sold under the bid on which the hammer was falling.

(3) Such a sale is with reserve unless the goods are in explicit terms put up without reserve. In an auction with reserve the auctioneer may withdraw the goods at any time until he announces completion of the sale. In an auction without reserve, after the auctioneer calls for bids on an article or lot, that article or lot cannot be withdrawn unless no bid is made within a reasonable time. In either case a bidder may retract his bid until the auctioneer's announcement of completion of the sale, but a bidder's retraction does not revive any previous bid.

[sea_u_onboard]

Wonderful piece - thank you for sharing.

 

Hold on to it.

[zqvol]

There are pieces of this story that do not make sense. I have been buying art from Park West for years. When they put a piece of art up they know what they are selling as they bring the peice up on the computer based on the number you referenced in the back. An original piece of art is easily identifiable from a print and the auctioneer would quickly notice the difference. The also do a good job in describing the art and artist.

 

In you situation I doubt that is an original.

First most originals are not covered in glass for fear of offsetting the image onto the glass.

 

Second

The back of the picture would probably not be covered and would in fact be on stretched canvas instead of the paper you mentioned.

 

Third

To quickly get an end to this story have the piece authenticated by an art dealer.

 

Fourth

Most original paintings have the are signed in paint and not in pencil.

Seems like you might work for Park West.

 

Park West clearly has messed up and are trying to cover themselves. they are not going to be able to do it.

 

I have learned from this mess NEVER to deal with them.

 

As was suggested the OP should contact her state attonrney general to stop this harrassment .

[hobbit81]

That is admitting that they made the mistake and you in fact got the art that you were bidding on. It would be different if you were bidding on a print and they sent you the original by mistake. I'm not a legal expert but I think you own that painting fair and square.

 

I don't think they will legally pursue the matter, but you never can tell. I'd think the bad press would outweigh the small monetary loss they'll take by letting you keep what (to me) seems to be rightfully yours. It might not hurt to mention that their actions are being discussed on the Cruise Critic message board and that you're thinking about contacting your local news station about what they're doing. I also think it is wise to let Carnival know that P.W. is trying to renege on a piece of art they sold to you. Maybe there is a lawyer here on C.C. that is willing to help you out?

 

John

 

It would have to be worth a whole lot for them to go to court over due to what it would cost. If they do actually start legal preceedings, then you'll know it's worth a bunch. Then figure out what you really want - the painting, or your next few cruises in the owners suite???

 

This is really exciting. I finally got to the end of this thread. Good luck and please keep us posted.

[ILov2cruise]

There are pieces of this story that do not make sense. I have been buying art from Park West for years. When they put a piece of art up they know what they are selling as they bring the peice up on the computer based on the number you referenced in the back. An original piece of art is easily identifiable from a print and the auctioneer would quickly notice the difference. The also do a good job in describing the art and artist.

QUOTE]

 

Unless he read the price wrong. Could be one zero was rubbed away.

 

$1500 or $150 Maybe he drank to much of the free champagne.

[idocdlw]

When they put a piece of art up they know what they are selling as they bring the peice up on the computer based on the number you referenced in the back. An original piece of art is easily identifiable from a print and the auctioneer would quickly notice the difference. The also do a good job in describing the art and artist.

 

They don't always know what they are selling. On the elation I bought a artist's proof by Barry Leighton Jones that the auctioneer called "The Eye Doctor". Being an eye doctor, it was an easy buy for me as no one else was bidding. The COA I received also referred to the A/P as "The Eye Doctor".

 

In consulting Barry Leighton-Jones' official website, I found the same A/P, but there it is called "The Eyes Have It". That title was confirmed by two independent art dealers.

 

I have spent almost two years making phone calls and mailing letters with continuing responses saying "We'll have to look into that", but then I get forgotten.

 

It really doesn't matter to me as this is a piece I bought for enjoyment rather than investment, but it is evidence that things are not always "ship-shape" (pardon the pun) at the art auctions.

 

I still love em, will still go cuz the champagne's free and I've been fortunate enough to win several raffled pieces.

[SqueakyDust]

Lovely picture, very serene.

On our last cruise (UK ship) DH went for the free champagne. No idea who the auctioneers were, but there was no way we'd bid on anything as it was all awful and very highly priced.

 

Could you not ask a local dealer to come round and appraise the picture, as if you were thinking of selling it? You are under no obligation I'm sure, I also doubt they'd charge you anything.

If Park West want to see the painting so badly then they should come to you. However, I'd not let them cross my door without having representation - even if it is your local Police Officer. I'd tape everything they say too, and tell them so - bet their attitude would change.

 

Wishing you the best of fortune Arlanamay. I think you are in a win/win situation. :)

[Kendra]

I wouldnt give it back.

 

They are using intimidation to get thier way. If I were you I would take this to the press.

[sea_u_onboard]

Any update?

[Smithgirl2]

 

My DH and I were at an auction on the Inspiration. I wasn't felling well and was half asleep during most of the auction. It was getting towards the end and the auctioneer placed a piece on the eisle and explained about the work. He asked, "What should we start the bid at?" and a woman across the room yelled "FIVE DOLLARS". He responded $5 - that's barely a Happy Meal - you could tell he was kicking himself for asking. Someone bid and he was held to selling that piece. Next came $10, then $15, then $20. It gets to $30.00 and no one is bidding. My DH has been talking the whole time and I'm half looking. He says he likes the shadowing and just as the auctioneers is about to say sold I bid $35.00 on it. I won and it cost me $30 to have it shipped home. It is a Seriolithograph by Douglas K Gifford, Seaside Inn. http://islandstudio.com/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=14&products_id=201&osCsid=a516bd3df607c96dc0f3b77c2ae53e1c (picture doesn't do it justice - much nicer in person).

 

Later in the week they were having the bargain sale (in the cabin that they store the art) and we went to see what they had. We were looking for other things by the same artist. We found one (don't remember the name) and ask how much. He told us $75.00 - we realised that he didn't recognize us so we asked about the one we bought. He looks it up and says, "Well I sold one for $35 this week, but you're not getting it for that!" He quoted $75 for that one also.

 

I left feeling I really got a bargin - but boy was I wrong. Hang on to it and don't let it go. All sales are final and it's not your fault that the staff messed up. I believe that even if they noticed it after bidding started they were bond by the bid and could not retract the offering. At least not this late in the game. Maybe while you were still on the ship.

 

Good Luck - Let us know what happened and tell your DH to lighten up.

 

I complained about Park West. On the Liberty in January, the auctioneer was bidding against himself in the opening bids. AND, the helpers around the room were raising their hands and yelling like they had bids...only to have the piece declared "pass" with "NO BIDS"! Heck, he raised the price on one piece almost $1000 with false (no) bids. It was amazing. They leave a lot to be desired. I'm glad that you got one up on them!

 

 

The auctioneers are allowed to bid against you with a price from the house. It's sort of the same thing as the "reserves" on ebay. Although they start the auction very low, the house still has a reserve price, which is why some pieces get "passed" even though they have bids--it didn't reach the reserve.

[Beach4me]

The auctioneers are allowed to bid against you with a price from the house. It's sort of the same thing as the "reserves" on ebay. Although they start the auction very low, the house still has a reserve price, which is why some pieces get "passed" even though they have bids--it didn't reach the reserve.

 

I know all about reserves. I attend several auctions every year throughout the Southeast. There is a difference between having a reserve and the auctioneer upping the bid AFTER A LEGITIMATE BIDDER ACTUALLY BIDS on an item and what my post was referencing. What I'm talking about is a case where the auctioneer opens with a bid and NO ONE in the room bids - the auctioneer is falsely raising the price, the helpers are 'bidding' from the floor (not calling to the auctioneer when a bid is made by an attendee), and creating a false frenzy in an attempt to get people caught up in the moment and bid - when in fact, there are NO BIDS! Again, I'm not talking about the frenzy of actual bids - I'm talking about what I consider unethical behavior.

 

I think Park West is showing their true colors with arlanamay - and all of my feelings/thoughts while on the Liberty in January are just being confirmed with the crap they are pulling on her.

 

arlanamay - you go, girl!!! You've got your own personal cheering section here in SC!

[b8tzm]

So is this an original or a print? Is it signed and numbered? What a great thread almost to good to be true -hummmmmmmmmmm

 

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/marlana_r_effertz/detail?.dir=/9df9&.dnm=1007scd.jpg&.src=ph

[Fury1995]

You all don't know how much it means to me to have your support. I'm not budging unless a judge or someone of authority tells me to fork it over.

 

 

Sorry for skipping all of the remaining posts after this one, but I just had to comment.

 

I and several friends and neighbors have spent thousands over the last 5 years or so on the art auctions on board ($7,000 in one cruise alone). I have at least 20 works hanging in my home as I type this. I am 100% behind you keeping the art you were PRESENTED, BID ON, and CARRIED off the ship. Regardless of the verbal description that was stated by the auctioneer, the lot# you paid for was physically shown and sold as-is, final, and required you to take possesion immediately (correct?).

 

If I recall correctly, the COA was an extra charge ($25) that you can optionally pay (seperately, much like frames for unframed art). You have fulfilled your end of the terms of the sale.

 

Let them keep the COA for the piece you have in your possession, return the incorrect COA, and be done with it.

 

See if you can have the piece certified by a third party, much like someone would if the piece had been bought at a yard sale.

 

I will eagerly continue following this thread to see the outcome, however if Park West continues to try to take the piece or bully you in any way, I will never buy from them again.... If it can happen to you, it can happen to me.

 

I genuinely hope someone at Park West is paying attention to this thread. If they choose the wrong course of action, this will cost them much more than $5000.

[MEOWSMURPHY]

Well Said>>>>>>>>>

[sjbdtz]

Well...this IS an interesting thread.

 

I have several comments, relating to a few different posts....

 

 

1. I bought several prints from an on-board auction on NCL, including two different prints by the same artist. When they were Fedex'd to my house, I noticed that the two by the same artist were actually the same print. HOWEVER, they had different labels on the back.

 

SO....had one of these actually been on the ship, the auctioneer would have faithfully read the numbers from the label and sold the wrong piece. Once at home, a phone call was all it took for them to say "oops, we'll send you the correct print, and a 'return waybill' for you to send back the mistaken one at our cost. Not only that, but I also had buyer's remorse over 1 of the prints, and I explained I really wasn't as enamored as I had been....they said...well send it back to, and we'll refund your money. And they did....in less than 2 weeks.

 

 

2. Your print (or original). You bought it, paid for it, and own it. Sounds like a $5,000 home-run. Next time PW calls, ask them for an amended invoice showing the correct information for the work, including their new price ($5150??). Take that, plus the artwork to a dealer and get the dealer's appraisal. You may have a fraud case worth tens of thousands of dollars! :)

 

3. Someone asked, and was never answered....is there a number at the bottom of the work ? (e.g. 5/75) ? If there is, then you definately have a print.

 

4. The auctioneer on NCL said that items with white cardboard protectors on the four corners are prints, and are typically mass-produced. Original works don't have protective cornerguards. Did yours?

 

5. If you don't want to pay for an appraisal, take it to your local auction house, and ask if they'd be prepared to list it in an upcoming auction, and what price-range they think it might get. This is a free service. It won't give you a CoA, but then again...you don't need one.

 

6. Just ignore PW. You don't need a CoA. A CoA has limited value in a resale (there's limited resale value of prints anyway).

 

7. Sea_u_onboard...I was confused by your posting... you said you paid $35 for a print they were later willing to sell for $75 (and which is listed on the internet at $99) but you claim "I left feeling I really got a bargin - but boy was I wrong" How were your wrong? Sounds like you got a great bargain. Unless I misread what you wrote....you DID only pay $35 for it, didn't you?

 

8. To COOLBOTS, watercolors are not typically painted on canvas, but on poster-board or paper. While I agree that oils & acrylics typically wouldn't have glass in the frame, I have seen original watercolours with glass. Of course...a watercolour wouldn't have the texture referred to by the OP.

 

 

That's all.

 

Stephen

[zotzer]

Anyway I looked at my reciept to help me with my search and on it was a different title than what was on the painting itself.

 

IMO, this is the one sticky part of the whole thing. Your receipt seems to be for the wrong item. The mix-up occured very early on in this process....misidentification of the item put up for bid.

 

That said, I'd just discontinue any conversation with them about it. It's not like they are going to break into your house in the middle of the night and take it back. If you are interested in doing so, you can have it re-certified by a third party, but otherwise hang it in your house and enjoy it.

 

The problem will arise if they decide to send you a bill for $5000. After all, there IS a mistake on the invoice. The invoice is for a different item....if that is the leg they choose to stand on.

 

Frankly, this is *their* mistake, and the 'right' thing to do is to admit it and send you the proper COA, or just let it drop. Like someone else said....they could swing it in their favor and have it be good publicity. Probably more valuable to them than $5000.

 

I've got to say, reading this thread has been a great way to kill an hour this morning. Keep us posted for sure!!

Tracy

[ricko1]

Can't wait to see the outcome.

[beachlovergirl]

I think this has to be the most interesting thing I've ever read on CruiseCritic!

 

It's yours - don't let them take it !

 

Keep us posted.

[MEOWSMURPHY]

7. Sea_u_onboard...I was confused by your posting... you said you paid $35 for a print they were later willing to sell for $75 (and which is listed on the internet at $99) but you claim "I left feeling I really got a bargin - but boy was I wrong" How were your wrong? Sounds like you got a great bargain. Unless I misread what you wrote....you DID only pay $35 for it, didn't you?

 

 

Stephen...bet Sea was comparing "his" bargain to Arlanamay's...in that case his "bargain" was'n't so great .....when compared to hers..;)

[GinaDucey]

PW is not following what their receipt says on the Conditions on the back. Now, if your receipt did not match what you bid on - yeah that is their major mess up. You received the one you bid on and won - did they not go over your receipt with you when you went to pick up your art? My guy went over my receipt just as if I was signing a mortgage or something - very detailed.

 

Bottom line - the painting is your - regardless of it is an original or not! They have the burden of proof - NOT YOU! Whoever said a judge would frown upon you is not right! They will continue to try to bully you - do not give in - in the same aspect you cannot allow this to come between you and your husband. I hope he will come around and understand the big picture here and back you. If I were you - I would contact a lawyer and see what can happen with this - most of the time you can do this over the phone (for a few free minutes) and see if PW even has a leg to stand on.

 

I stand behind you and hope this all works out well for you. Please keep in information coming. Keep your spirits up and know that we are all behind you here!

[arlanamay]

Well they haven't called me since Wed and that's fine by me. I hope they never will but I doubt it. It is definately an original the lady said so. It is done in acrylic. To the person worried about it being behind glass. Well it sits back from the glass recessed and doesn't touch it. I don't know enough about how art galleries do things to know if that's normal or not. To be honest it doesn't matter to me. I will definately keep you all posted. My husband didn't like when I told him to not answer the phone when they called or tell them I'm not here. I told him they can contact me via e-mail or letter. I just get too worked up and nervous when they call me. It puts me in a mood the rest of the day. I'm not a dramatic person really and my husband is surely not. He would have given it back just so there was no hassle. I just don't think I'm wrong and I don't want to be a door mat.

[LHP]

Arlanmay:

 

Another reason not to answer the phone, is that you really need all correspondence in writing. That settles the "he said she said" issue.

 

If they do ever call again, simply tell them that all communication from now on will be by email or letter. period.