COVID Testing on Iona

[zap99]

1 hour ago, terrierjohn said:

Isn't that what travel insurance is supposed to do?

Absolutely, but if there is a risk that they won't cover, folk seem to be saying that you shouldn't go anywhere. Too risky. I'm just pointing out than we can take that risk ourselves. Many mega big companies carry minimum insurance and self insure certain risks. My car has just gone out of warranty, I could park it up in case the engine blows, or take the chance that it won't. Just saying we have choices.

[Harry Peterson]

2 hours ago, Megabear2 said:

And there in a nutshell is the problem: you have to, correctly, have the insurance to book/board the cruise but the cruise lines know one very important element is uninsurable but are willing to let the passenger sail without it.  That missing element weighs heavily on an unknowing passenger. To date it hasn't been too difficult to buy off those affected travellers. Now the trickle has become a stream and once the European cruises from UK start in earnest will most likely become a river.  

 

All very well helping you liaise with your insurer but if the insurer has stated he won't insure that incident then quite simply the passenger has to meet the costs however he can.

 

If you read the UK Government website for entry into countries every section states you must have insurance or sufficient funds to cover medical emergencies.  Currently hardly any British traveller, never mind cruiser, can cover these elements of quarantine.

You’ve raised an extraordinarily useful issue with all this, and - hats off to you - followed it through with insurers and P&O.

 

There’s very clearly an identical issue with SAGA, and indeed all cruise lines. I’ve taken it up with SAGA, and so far they’re being less than straightforward in their responses.

 

It’s very much the elephant in the room with a cloak of invisibility - but a very large elephant if it happens to land on you!

[Megabear2]

I now have a delicate personal situation!  Some of you may have guessed I'm a seasoned campaigner with a lot of experience in cage rattling. As such I'm quite well known by some reporters at the BBC and a couple of newspapers.  I am currently ignoring a voicemail from one such newspaper contact left an hour or so ago. It's a bit rambling but the gist is my "handle" has been recognised.  I intend to ignore and hope the person, who is relatively local, disappears without comment from me.

[Dermotsgirl]

1 hour ago, zap99 said:

Only for the items that your insurance doesn't cover. In this case a few days in a Spanish hotel. That will all change soon as Spain want it treated as endemic.

 

1) And if it turns out to be more than a 'few days' the person who is self insuring is still liable for the costs, so it is wise not to make assumptions

 

2) Endemic doesn't mean pretending the virus has gone away or ignore it.

 

3) has anyone asked the virus if it's considering ending the pandemic

[zap99]

18 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

For the negative close contact that is most likely everything as Dermotsgirl says.

To be honest, many folk will rubbish any positive position. 7 days hotel and a flight home vs locking down until the risk has totally gone away. Their choice. My choice is make the best of things and get on with life. If it costs a bit more, so be it. 

[Dermotsgirl]

2 minutes ago, zap99 said:

To be honest, many folk will rubbish any positive position. 7 days hotel and a flight home vs locking down until the risk has totally gone away. Their choice. My choice is make the best of things and get on with life. If it costs a bit more, so be it. 

There are not just two choices as you are suggesting.

 

There's a whole range of activities that people can do that do not involve self insuring against quarantine overseas or going into lockdown.  

[Megabear2]

4 minutes ago, zap99 said:

To be honest, many folk will rubbish any positive position. 7 days hotel and a flight home vs locking down until the risk has totally gone away. Their choice. My choice is make the best of things and get on with life. If it costs a bit more, so be it. 

As we have discussed for many months (since October I believe) that is an individual choice and you have, as I have, made your choice. You and I weighed the risk at each point, good for us. Everyone is different and I would not be so presumptuous as to tell others to do anything other than what their instincts tell them

 

The hotel is currently 10 days in Spanish ports for cruisers, they dont seem to differ on the 7 like other countries.  If they choose to lessen it for land based passengers they may still treat cruise passengers differently.

[zap99]

1 minute ago, Dermotsgirl said:

There are not just two choices as you are suggesting.

 

There's a whole range of activities that people can do that do not involve self insuring against quarantine overseas or going into lockdown.  

Go back a few posts and you will see somebody else gave us 2 choices. I pointed out there are others, so it seems we agree, as normal 🤣

[Dermotsgirl]

9 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

I now have a delicate personal situation!  Some of you may have guessed I'm a seasoned campaigner with a lot of experience in cage rattling. As such I'm quite well known by some reporters at the BBC and a couple of newspapers.  I am currently ignoring a voicemail from one such newspaper contact left an hour or so ago. It's a bit rambling but the gist is my "handle" has been recognised.  I intend to ignore and hope the person, who is relatively local, disappears without comment from me.

I suppose it confirms that it's not just a few cruisers that read this board !

 

 

[Dermotsgirl]

1 minute ago, zap99 said:

Go back a few posts and you will see somebody else gave us 2 choices. I pointed out there are others, so it seems we agree, as normal 🤣

I was replying to you, no one else 

[Megabear2]

28 minutes ago, zap99 said:

Absolutely, but if there is a risk that they won't cover, folk seem to be saying that you shouldn't go anywhere. Too risky. I'm just pointing out than we can take that risk ourselves. Many mega big companies carry minimum insurance and self insure certain risks. My car has just gone out of warranty, I could park it up in case the engine blows, or take the chance that it won't. Just saying we have choices.

You can of course pay to extend your warranty!  If your car blows up it's an inconvenience but it wont hopefully strand you a thousand miles from home with a bill you have little or no control over.

Edited January 12, 2022 by Megabear2

[Eddie99]

42 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

I now have a delicate personal situation!  Some of you may have guessed I'm a seasoned campaigner with a lot of experience in cage rattling. As such I'm quite well known by some reporters at the BBC and a couple of newspapers.  I am currently ignoring a voicemail from one such newspaper contact left an hour or so ago. It's a bit rambling but the gist is my "handle" has been recognised.  I intend to ignore and hope the person, who is relatively local, disappears without comment from me.

I hope your ignoring works

I have no truck with the press and little more respect for the majority of the broadcast news media.  They’d love to get some free stories from you - though they’d more than likely mangle them to nonsense, not to mention the sub-editor using an oh so funny (not) pun to make an inaccurate headline

 

I’m not planning international travel anytime soon.  If I was I would have been delighted to use the information you have gleaned.  You have been a great help to many - probably many more than actually post here

[zap99]

42 minutes ago, Dermotsgirl said:

I was replying to you, no one else 

And I much appreciate that. Thank you.

[ann141]

50 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

You’ve raised an extraordinarily useful issue with all this, and - hats off to you - followed it through with insurers and P&O.

 

There’s very clearly an identical issue with SAGA, and indeed all cruise lines. I’ve taken it up with SAGA, and so far they’re being less than straightforward in their responses.

 

It’s very much the elephant in the room with a cloak of invisibility - but a very large elephant if it happens to land on you!

Can you let me know if you hear anything Harry.We cruise with Saga in just over a week.I sent them a message via social media yesterday and they are going to get back to me when they have had an answer from their cruise department.We have checked with our bank and we will be covered if we have to disembark even though negative but it is concerning that people who may just be sharing a dinner table may be disembarked too.I have a real fear of flying and obviously accept that I will have to fly home if quarantined due to covid.However I will not be happy if I might be disembarked because I am considered a close contact when I might just have been on the same coach excursion

[kruzseeka]

Megabear.... I am what some will describe as a 'lurker' here.  I used to post regularly getting much valued advice from others and hopefully giving some useful info to others too.  Whilst not active more recently, I still read with interest each day and am particularly keen to keep abreast of issues relating to cruising in the current situation. 

You have been a star - clearly extremely well informed and tenacious.  I would like to thank you for your efforts to provide us with this important insurance information. 

What people choose to do with that information is entirely their choice - but surely best be aware of the implications than oblivious.  

 

(I wish you well with the unwanted attention and hope it blows over)

[Megabear2]

58 minutes ago, Eddie99 said:

I hope your ignoring works

I have no truck with the press and little more respect for the majority of the broadcast news media.  They’d love to get some free stories from you - though they’d more than likely mangle them to nonsense, not to mention the sub-editor using an oh so funny (not) pun to make an inaccurate headline

 

I’m not planning international travel anytime soon.  If I was I would have been delighted to use the information you have gleaned.  You have been a great help to many - probably many more than actually post here

I do most certainly intend to have no comment if I have the misfortune to accidentally take a call.   I have first hand knowledge and been on the other end of having newspapers twist things they hear.

 

However I will however put my hand up and admit if necessary, i have used used media contacts to get me information I have needed in serious personal matters.  The last was following the death of my father following involvement with an abusive care worker who was untrained in medication and generally lacking in how to deal with elderly disabled people. The company providing his care, the local council, the chemist and the GP were asked to detail what they were doing in a formal investigation. It transpired that there was at that time no need for these parties to speak with one other and my father died as a person who slipped through the cracks. 

 

It took me 4 years to get those answers and to allow me to rest and mourn my father.  I have no guilt for using and where necessary manipulating and pushing these parties by using in particular help from the BBC.

 

This case, is of course, totally different and I have no desire to get involved with anyone outside the cruise lines. I would guess another party using these boards may have alerted some media people.  There is no way of knowing who is reading things on here or indeed what their motives might be. 

 

 

Edited January 12, 2022 by Megabear2

[cruising.mark.uk]

Only just catching up with all this.  At first glance the P&O text appears almost identical to that which we debated after Cunard updated their website.  If so, at least CCL is consistent across brands!

Just 2 thoughts:

- The weekly MoneySavingsExpert email (released overnight) has a piece on travel insurance and recommends cover based on minimum criteria including cover for needing to isolate abroad, including associated accommodation etc.  But, the difficulty of being covered in these circumstances if you do not receive a positive test does not seem to be covered.  For anyone who subscribes and is so minded, flagging up this specific problem to them as an issue worthy of further research would be a more subtle approach than a media approach and would, I think, also be more likely to lead to a positive outcome.

- It would be useful to know whether passengers being met with an unexpected bill is really a problem in practice versus being a problem in theory.  Does anyone have any definitive examples of UK P&O or Cunard passengers in this situation who have been forced to meet the costs themselves, i.e. their insurer doesn't cover them and the cruise line won't pay?  I don't want to reignite the NDA debate, but if the cruise line / insurer aren't paying then they've won't have any leverage for an NDA to stop people reporting what has happened.  In which case, surely we'd have heard if any UK travellers had found themselves responsible for all of the costs?  I'm not aware of any reported incidents.  Does anyone know of any?  The answer to that will be important for travellers assessing the pros and cons of travelling with a potentially uninsurable risk.  The risk calculus will be very different if the cruise lines / insurers have - so far - always reached a compromise solution than it will if there are occurrences where they have not and the passengers have had to foot the bill.

[Interestedcruisefan]

3 hours ago, Dermotsgirl said:

There are not just two choices as you are suggesting.

 

There's a whole range of activities that people can do that do not involve self insuring against quarantine overseas or going into lockdown.  

That's correct

 

Cruising certainly has far more risks than most other holidays right now

[Megabear2]

15 minutes ago, cruising.mark.uk said:

Only just catching up with all this.  At first glance the P&O text appears almost identical to that which we debated after Cunard updated their website.  If so, at least CCL is consistent across brands!

Just 2 thoughts:

- The weekly MoneySavingsExpert email (released overnight) has a piece on travel insurance and recommends cover based on minimum criteria including cover for needing to isolate abroad, including associated accommodation etc.  But, the difficulty of being covered in these circumstances if you do not receive a positive test does not seem to be covered.  For anyone who subscribes and is so minded, flagging up this specific problem to them as an issue worthy of further research would be a more subtle approach than a media approach and would, I think, also be more likely to lead to a positive outcome.

- It would be useful to know whether passengers being met with an unexpected bill is really a problem in practice versus being a problem in theory.  Does anyone have any definitive examples of UK P&O or Cunard passengers in this situation who have been forced to meet the costs themselves, i.e. their insurer doesn't cover them and the cruise line won't pay?  I don't want to reignite the NDA debate, but if the cruise line / insurer aren't paying then they've won't have any leverage for an NDA to stop people reporting what has happened.  In which case, surely we'd have heard if any UK travellers had found themselves responsible for all of the costs?  I'm not aware of any reported incidents.  Does anyone know of any?  The answer to that will be important for travellers assessing the pros and cons of travelling with a potentially uninsurable risk.  The risk calculus will be very different if the cruise lines / insurers have - so far - always reached a compromise solution than it will if there are occurrences where they have not and the passengers have had to foot the bill.

Excellent points.  As far as we know none on P&O/Cunard are out of pocket because CEO office and Molecrochip have confirmed.

 

There are however Marella, Fred and RCI passengers who are apparently fighting for repayments of these monies.  Some are on the relevant boards on CC, some apparently on social media sites.

 

I am doing the research we discussed on the Cunard board re EU policies, it's quite time consuming to date!

[Interestedcruisefan]

30 minutes ago, cruising.mark.uk said:

Only just catching up with all this.  At first glance the P&O text appears almost identical to that which we debated after Cunard updated their website.  If so, at least CCL is consistent across brands!

Just 2 thoughts:

- The weekly MoneySavingsExpert email (released overnight) has a piece on travel insurance and recommends cover based on minimum criteria including cover for needing to isolate abroad, including associated accommodation etc.  But, the difficulty of being covered in these circumstances if you do not receive a positive test does not seem to be covered.  For anyone who subscribes and is so minded, flagging up this specific problem to them as an issue worthy of further research would be a more subtle approach than a media approach and would, I think, also be more likely to lead to a positive outcome.

- It would be useful to know whether passengers being met with an unexpected bill is really a problem in practice versus being a problem in theory.  Does anyone have any definitive examples of UK P&O or Cunard passengers in this situation who have been forced to meet the costs themselves, i.e. their insurer doesn't cover them and the cruise line won't pay?  I don't want to reignite the NDA debate, but if the cruise line / insurer aren't paying then they've won't have any leverage for an NDA to stop people reporting what has happened.  In which case, surely we'd have heard if any UK travellers had found themselves responsible for all of the costs?  I'm not aware of any reported incidents.  Does anyone know of any?  The answer to that will be important for travellers assessing the pros and cons of travelling with a potentially uninsurable risk.  The risk calculus will be very different if the cruise lines / insurers have - so far - always reached a compromise solution than it will if there are occurrences where they have not and the passengers have had to foot the bill.

I've seen it mentioned in posts. 

 

But right now won't there be many people paying the expenses and food costs and flights home when quarantined thinking they will be able to claim back from insurance and in for a shock when they can't in due course?

 

The cruiselines and insurers were made aware of the loophole several months ago Mark

 

They've had long enough to find solutions by now

 

Right now the solution seems to be load the risk on to the unsuspecting passengers

 

But cover ourselves a bit more with some less than transparent statements

 

I think the P and O statement is more transparent than Cunard

 

But neither go as far as warning any of their customers that negative cases disembarked alongside positive cases are not insurable

 

And thats very very poor

 

Nobody should be relying on gestures. This is too serious for that 

Edited January 12, 2022 by Interestedcruisefan

[Harry Peterson]

2 hours ago, ann141 said:

Can you let me know if you hear anything Harry.We cruise with Saga in just over a week.I sent them a message via social media yesterday and they are going to get back to me when they have had an answer from their cruise department.We have checked with our bank and we will be covered if we have to disembark even though negative but it is concerning that people who may just be sharing a dinner table may be disembarked too.I have a real fear of flying and obviously accept that I will have to fly home if quarantined due to covid.However I will not be happy if I might be disembarked because I am considered a close contact when I might just have been on the same coach excursion

 

No problem, Ann, though I don't think our exchanges so far really cover your point.  Good to see, though, that your own cover will deal with the situation I'm trying to get an answer from SAGA on - though I think I know what it will be.  There will be a lot of people who think, not unreasonably, that they're insured, but prove not to be.  P&O half-answered the question of whether they'll step in, but appear to have backtracked.  I'm curious to know what SAGA's approach is.

 

Emails set out below in chronological order, in case they're of any help.  I'm sure you'll have a great cruise, though, and statistically it's likely to be uneventful - exactly as you want it to be.  Have fun - perfect time of year to be getting away from the UK to somewhere warmer!

_______________________________________________________________________________________

"I am concerned at what might happen if I, or a family member, had to be put into quarantine at the next port if one of us tested positive for Covid during the cruise.

 

Saga, along with all other cruise operators, is required under international agreements to offload any passenger testing positive at the next port, as you know, along with any close contacts. 

 The passenger testing positive would be covered under insurance, but most policies would not cover any passengers also offloaded because of contact, but not testing positive.

 

Is Saga undertaking to reimburse all the costs of the quarantine hotel, plus flights home, in this situation please?"

__________________________________________________________________________

 

"In the unlikely event of you testing positive for COVID-19 whilst onboard the ship, you will be safely disembarked at the next suitable port, which may be upon your return to the UK. If you have our included insurance policy, you are covered for medical and repatriation costs. If you have your own insurance with another provider, you will need to check the cover that you hold. We recommend that all guests hold insurance which covers COVID related claims.

 

Your travelling companions have the choice to go with you or not (if negative).

Just to also clarify, if you or your travelling companions test positive, you wont always be debarked it all depends on how you are, and if it is medically required. This is why we say this could be on arrival back to the UK as you would then be in the isolation zone, until then.

 

If you have our included insurance – 
Please be aware that this policy will only provide cover for any claims caused by or relating to Coronavirus Disease (COVID-19), or any mutation of, under the 'Emergency medical associated expenses' section of your policy book. This section provides insurance for emergency medical and associated costs not covered by the NHS or any reciprocal health agreement.

 

I hope all the above has answered your questions, and provided you with more reassurance.

If you have any other questions or queries, please don’t hesitate to contact us again."

 

______________________________________________________________________________________

 

"Thanks for your reply.

 

What you appear to be confirming, then, is that if a passenger is required to be disembarked but does not produce a positive COVID-19 test result SAGA will not cover any of the costs?
 

I need to be very clear on this point, because most insurance policies, and even, I believe, your own insurance, will cover only the costs of those actually testing positive - and not anyone else who is required to be disembarked."

 

[Response awaited]

________________________________________________________________________________________________

[Megabear2]

12 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

But right now won't there be many people paying the expenses and food costs and flights home when quarantined thinking they will be able to claim back from insurance and in for a shock when they can't in due course?

That's an interesting point. We have the Iona Christmas/New Year people assumedly just starting their claims.  I dont think we will have any P&O/Cunard Caribbean claimers but we may well have Iona and Ventura ones.

Edited January 12, 2022 by Megabear2

[Interestedcruisefan]

10 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

 

No problem, Ann, though I don't think our exchanges so far really cover your point.  Good to see, though, that your own cover will deal with the situation I'm trying to get an answer from SAGA on - though I think I know what it will be.  There will be a lot of people who think, not unreasonably, that they're insured, but prove not to be.  P&O half-answered the question of whether they'll step in, but appear to have backtracked.  I'm curious to know what SAGA's approach is.

 

Emails set out below in chronological order, in case they're of any help.  I'm sure you'll have a great cruise, though, and statistically it's likely to be uneventful - exactly as you want it to be.  Have fun - perfect time of year to be getting away from the UK to somewhere warmer!

_______________________________________________________________________________________

"I am concerned at what might happen if I, or a family member, had to be put into quarantine at the next port if one of us tested positive for Covid during the cruise.

 

Saga, along with all other cruise operators, is required under international agreements to offload any passenger testing positive at the next port, as you know, along with any close contacts. 

 The passenger testing positive would be covered under insurance, but most policies would not cover any passengers also offloaded because of contact, but not testing positive.

 

Is Saga undertaking to reimburse all the costs of the quarantine hotel, plus flights home, in this situation please?"

__________________________________________________________________________

 

"In the unlikely event of you testing positive for COVID-19 whilst onboard the ship, you will be safely disembarked at the next suitable port, which may be upon your return to the UK. If you have our included insurance policy, you are covered for medical and repatriation costs. If you have your own insurance with another provider, you will need to check the cover that you hold. We recommend that all guests hold insurance which covers COVID related claims.

 

Your travelling companions have the choice to go with you or not (if negative).

Just to also clarify, if you or your travelling companions test positive, you wont always be debarked it all depends on how you are, and if it is medically required. This is why we say this could be on arrival back to the UK as you would then be in the isolation zone, until then.

 

If you have our included insurance – 
Please be aware that this policy will only provide cover for any claims caused by or relating to Coronavirus Disease (COVID-19), or any mutation of, under the 'Emergency medical associated expenses' section of your policy book. This section provides insurance for emergency medical and associated costs not covered by the NHS or any reciprocal health agreement.

 

I hope all the above has answered your questions, and provided you with more reassurance.

If you have any other questions or queries, please don’t hesitate to contact us again."

 

______________________________________________________________________________________

 

"Thanks for your reply.

 

What you appear to be confirming, then, is that if a passenger is required to be disembarked but does not produce a positive COVID-19 test result SAGA will not cover any of the costs?
 

I need to be very clear on this point, because most insurance policies, and even, I believe, your own insurance, will cover only the costs of those actually testing positive - and not anyone else who is required to be disembarked."

 

[Response awaited]

________________________________________________________________________________________________

They've been clear I think!

 

Basically the negative person isn't insured as theyve just CHOSEN to disembark with their positive close contact?

 

Which is insurance not fit for purpose! 

 

We are going to be seeing loads about this on holiday watchdog tv programmes etc in due course

Edited January 12, 2022 by Interestedcruisefan

[clearblueseas]

Totally agree. Insurance not fit for purpose. I asked on my online chat to insurance company why aren’t you advising customers clearly in your contract that if they’re offloaded as a close contact they may not be covered for all costs. Their response was to phone the helpline !  Done that to no avail. Very grey area which needs to be addressed. Going around in circles here. 

[ann141]

27 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

 

No problem, Ann, though I don't think our exchanges so far really cover your point.  Good to see, though, that your own cover will deal with the situation I'm trying to get an answer from SAGA on - though I think I know what it will be.  There will be a lot of people who think, not unreasonably, that they're insured, but prove not to be.  P&O half-answered the question of whether they'll step in, but appear to have backtracked.  I'm curious to know what SAGA's approach is.

 

Emails set out below in chronological order, in case they're of any help.  I'm sure you'll have a great cruise, though, and statistically it's likely to be uneventful - exactly as you want it to be.  Have fun - perfect time of year to be getting away from the UK to somewhere warmer!

_______________________________________________________________________________________

"I am concerned at what might happen if I, or a family member, had to be put into quarantine at the next port if one of us tested positive for Covid during the cruise.

 

Saga, along with all other cruise operators, is required under international agreements to offload any passenger testing positive at the next port, as you know, along with any close contacts. 

 The passenger testing positive would be covered under insurance, but most policies would not cover any passengers also offloaded because of contact, but not testing positive.

 

Is Saga undertaking to reimburse all the costs of the quarantine hotel, plus flights home, in this situation please?"

__________________________________________________________________________

 

"In the unlikely event of you testing positive for COVID-19 whilst onboard the ship, you will be safely disembarked at the next suitable port, which may be upon your return to the UK. If you have our included insurance policy, you are covered for medical and repatriation costs. If you have your own insurance with another provider, you will need to check the cover that you hold. We recommend that all guests hold insurance which covers COVID related claims.

 

Your travelling companions have the choice to go with you or not (if negative).

Just to also clarify, if you or your travelling companions test positive, you wont always be debarked it all depends on how you are, and if it is medically required. This is why we say this could be on arrival back to the UK as you would then be in the isolation zone, until then.

 

If you have our included insurance – 
Please be aware that this policy will only provide cover for any claims caused by or relating to Coronavirus Disease (COVID-19), or any mutation of, under the 'Emergency medical associated expenses' section of your policy book. This section provides insurance for emergency medical and associated costs not covered by the NHS or any reciprocal health agreement.

 

I hope all the above has answered your questions, and provided you with more reassurance.

If you have any other questions or queries, please don’t hesitate to contact us again."

 

______________________________________________________________________________________

 

"Thanks for your reply.

 

What you appear to be confirming, then, is that if a passenger is required to be disembarked but does not produce a positive COVID-19 test result SAGA will not cover any of the costs?
 

I need to be very clear on this point, because most insurance policies, and even, I believe, your own insurance, will cover only the costs of those actually testing positive - and not anyone else who is required to be disembarked."

 

[Response awaited]

________________________________________________________________________________________________

Thank you Harry.I tried to post a reply earlier but obviously CC gremlins at work!