The reason Celebrity isn't enforcing the dress codes

[Blazerboy]

Andrew (Who never met a dresscode thread he could pass up) ...

:o Guilty as charged!

 

And here's my take on men and dressing, when I'm not trying to be politic in my responses:

 

"Men who resist dressing appropriately, while proffering every excuse in the book, are simply not comfortable enough with their own masculinity to be potentially perceived by other men as caring about fashion."

 

Well, THAT ought start 'em talking!:eek:

 

(going back into my flame-proof bunker now)

 

Andrew

[flashdog_1]

Are we to the point that we need to ask our table mates what they are going to wear on formal night? Or do these same offenders wear cutoffs and tank tops on informal night and bathing suits with thongs on casual night so we'll know without asking?

 

Imagine showing up in a tux/evening gown and your table mates in jeans/tee shirts. Now that would be something, to feel overdressed or weird because you yourself had followed the dress code.

[DrKoob]

WOW, Bob and Andrew on the same thread. I always know I can find Blazer on one of these threads but both of you.

 

We are just off Infinity in the Caribbean and were thrilled to see that we did not see one single dress code violation. In fact, we think we saw more tuxes and formal gowns than ever before. Darn snazzy.

 

And we know there were others who did not dress but they stayed out of the Trellis dining room and the United States on the nights we were there.

[babylene]

You slay me too...especially your last remark!

 

Maybe I am blind. I have sailed Celebrity 8 times already and don't remember anyone dressed offensively...of course, I may have noticed and then soon forgotten.

 

But...to press your buttons further... we travel with far too much luggage. Our cruises are 11-14 days and we add on a few land days (as we get older, we seem to add on one more and one more!). I have found some outfits that "pass". I would never wear them to a wedding at home, but they are comfortable and easy to pack...so no problem there.

 

However, DH's tux and sport jacket are heavy and take up a lot of room...not good for lugging luggage, and not good for airline restrictions.

 

The more we cruise, the more I can see us one day, leaving these items at home and eating in the alternative dining room. We have not yet eaten there, but have spoken to people who have and they like the idea that they can eat at 7 or 7:30, which would be a more normal hour for us. On our last cruise, twice we decided to have sushi for supper. It was a light, refreshing change.

 

Don't flame and tell me to take another cruiseline. We choose Celebrity because so far it has fit the bill (literally and figuratively!!)

 

Bottom line....enjoy, enjoy!

[Blazerboy]

Babylene, no one should flame you for what you've said :) ... sounds like you follow the suggested code, and, when you decide not to, you'll dine in casual dining. Of course, there may come a time when you want more options and decide to try another line- we already do that....when we want MORE formality, we sail on Cunard.:D

 

Now, seriously:

 

I have other ideas for you/your husband, as well. One blue blazer can serve many uses, including the second layer when you're flying, the "this restaurant looks a little too nice for hiking clothes" situation on land, and even, and here the walls start to tremble and the true purists of fashion threads quiver, in the formal dining room on formal nights, worn with a dark pair of grey flannel trousers, a shirt and a tie. No, it's not what's requested exactly, but it certainly wouldn't cause much notice from anyone. And the pants and shirt could be worn again on other casual/informal nights. A dark blue or black suit does the same thing, and there really is no rule that you can't wear the pieces separately.

 

99.9% of the "fashion police" people on here would agree with me that it's not the people who make this kind of effort that we're kvetching about, but the actual jean/t-shirt variety. And if you have a use for the blazer, shirt and pants for other things, the only extra thing is a tie, and it doesn't take up too much room- or buy one of the ones in the gift shop for $10., wear it on board, and then leave behind when you go hiking on the moors, or trekking in the mountains!:)

 

Lastly, for ease of travel, don't forget two things:

 

1. To reuse things on the ship by sending them out to the cleaners! Saves a lot of packing room/weight, and the cost is actually quite reasonable compared with shore-side cleaning. I know, I know, it's easier for men than women to do that.:rolleyes: But I know several women who've got the mix and match thing down to a science.

 

2. Luggage with Wheels! My suit carrier has wheels, my suitcase has wheels. It's so easy now to roll through the airport. Lifting is always the biggest thing, and you do a lot less of that with the wheeled bags. But don't go for the largest one you can get! That's where the weight limits come in. 26"or 27" is about as big as you want to keep the packed weight under the domestic limit of 50 lbs.

 

Have fun, and hope you find a satisfactory way to stay with Celebrity!:)

 

Andrew

[babylene]

Andrew, you are really a sweet guy! Thanks for all the tips. Actually, come May, I just may call on your help. We are going to Greece for 3 weeks (no cruise, this time) and...I HAVE to pack light. But DH won't bother with tux or sport jacket!!And we should have fairly warm weather ( a cover-up for evenings should do it). I know people who manage to pack beautifully...and I have to LEARN.

 

If my husband would consent to wear a sport jacket and tie formal night...not a bad idea. I don't think he owns a blazer these days.

 

I don't know how women bring ball gowns. It would take up an entire suitcase...and then be crushed.

 

As for the jeans, t's etc....you usually don't see too much of that evenings shipboard....I think some posters just like to FUSS!!!!! I have fun reading them!

[dkjretired]

I am new to these boards but perhaps everyone should review the "Dress Code" from the Celebrity web site before complaining.

 

You will note men are REQUESTED to wear a jacket and tie on informal nights and for formal nights men and women MAY PREFER more dressy attire. From my school years English classes both "requested" and "may" indicate an option to comply or not.

 

I don't seen how once can "demand" the cruise line enforce a dress code when clearly there is none except for requested and suggested guidelines.

 

From the website:

 

"A gentleman's choice for casual nights includes a sport shirt and slacks, while women will be comfortable in a pants suit, skirt and blouse, or casual dress.

 

On informal nights, men are requested to wear a jacket, shirt and tie, while women may want to wear a suit or dress.

 

For the formal nights, including the Captain's Welcome Aboard Cocktail Party, dinner on the second night, and the Captain's Farewell Dinner held the next-to-last night of the cruise; both men and women may prefer more dressy attire, such as an evening gown for women and a tuxedo or dress suit for men."

 

I don't care what other people wear however you should be aware that if you do not wear the suggested or requested attire, you may be denied entry into certain venues including the dining room,. That is really what this thread is about, why Celebrity is not enforcing the dress codes. When they did enforce the codes I have seen people denied entry into the dining room and the theater.

[Leela]

babylene, you've given me a great idea...there are so many beautiful PACKABLE fabrics out there -- fabrics that can just be rolled up in a ball and won't wrinkle. However, the available off-the-rack designs made out of these fabrics tend to be...lacking. They're either really bland and sack-like, or are so "body conscious" that only people with amazing figures can wear them. I've got a number of years of gown design/construction experience, I think I should get with the program and work up some knockout numbers for my next cruise. I've never actually worn anything that I've designed or made on a a cruise! Bermuda, here I come!

[babylene]

Good for you, Leela. I am not so talented! But..I did find some Chico mix and match especially from their travellers collection...and I am very happy with them. At home I would wear them to a restaurant...on a ship...a little glitzy jewellery...et voila!

[Andy]

Just today I received an online Celebrity survey...hmmm how timely. There was a section that I responded to that asked what could be improved. I went into detail stating that the requested/required dress codes should be enforced, WITHOUT penalizing any staff members, if reported by a disgruntled passenger.

 

Karyn

 

Hi Karyn !

 

If I ever get that survey, I will do the same thing. I totally feel that the Dining Room staff should not be penalized for enforcing the dress code.

 

Here is one problem I see. Suppose someone was kicked out of the Dining Room for the Dress Code.... What prevents them from taking down the name of the person who kicked them out, and make all sorts of FALSE allegations to get back at him/her. How would Celebrity ever know what is fact, and what is fiction ???

 

I do want the Dress code enforced, but I am sure we can all see the can of worms that is opened.

[Trail46]

Another voice in favor of enforcing the dress codes! Understand the problems of the crew, but there's always a way around that if management perceives it as important. Assuming many are correct that these boards are monitored by Celebrity, keep the pro-dress code postings coming!

[canderson]

We spoke to several staff members, asking why Celebrity wasn't enforcing the dress codes, and from the assistant maitre 'd to the waiter, assistant waiter the bar servers, the resounding response was that when a staff member attempts to enforce the dress codes, the offending passengers often write nasty things about them on the comment cards, not even related to the enforcement of the dress codes, and some staff have actually been fired as a result.

This problem has been brought up before, and I cannot be convinced that Celebrity hasn't already resolved this in any of several SIMPLE ways.

 

One would be to assign one member of the staff to this job such that their ONLY job with public interface in the dining area is to address this issue. To be fair to the individuals selected, the job should be rotated from cruise to cruise, and Celebrity will be fully aware of this person's "special" job, providing immunity from scurrilous attacks by pax on the comment cards. The Maitre d' should be invited to observe as necessary from a distance to assure that proper protocol is followed.

 

Any number of equally effective options come to mind -- so again, I don't believe Celebrity is even trying.

[canderson]

 

Here is one problem I see. Suppose someone was kicked out of the Dining Room for the Dress Code.... What prevents them from taking down the name of the person who kicked them out, and make all sorts of FALSE allegations to get back at him/her. How would Celebrity ever know what is fact, and what is fiction ???

See above, Andy. If the person tasked with this job on a given cruise has only one "public face" job for that cruise, that of paying attention to whether this particular rule is followed each evening, it's going to be VERY hard for people to come up with additional accusations that hold any water. There are any number of staff members whose "day job" you will never know on a cruise. That's why I particularly like this approach.

[Karynanne]

Hi Karyn !

 

If I ever get that survey, I will do the same thing. I totally feel that the Dining Room staff should not be penalized for enforcing the dress code.

 

Here is one problem I see. Suppose someone was kicked out of the Dining Room for the Dress Code.... What prevents them from taking down the name of the person who kicked them out, and make all sorts of FALSE allegations to get back at him/her. How would Celebrity ever know what is fact, and what is fiction ???

 

I do want the Dress code enforced, but I am sure we can all see the can of worms that is opened.

 

Andy, the only way we'll ever see change, is when we respond to inquiries from Celebrity. They have asked for passenger opinions...and we should give them, in order to achieve positive results.

 

Karyn

[Palms2Pines2Sea]

SO many of you have suggested that Celebrity assign the responsibility of "fashion police" to one of the (preferably higher ranking) shipboard staff.

After a long and successful career in the hospitality industry, please allow me to state that it is EXTREMELY unlikely that we will ever see that happen.

The competition in our industry is at an all-time high, and only growing by leaps and bounds each and every day. Hotels, restaurants, resorts, and cruise lines are all fighting for your dollar. The consumer has more information available to him/her than ever before, and frequently that information arrives with the potential of what we call a "more, better, different" experience from a competitor.

In a nutshell, we in the hospitality industry feel that ANY confrontation with a customer is a losing one. And although many of you seem to feel that it is not only possible but necessary to "redirect" a cruise customer's choice of clothing, that subject could, possibly, result in a confrontation. And even the possibility of confrontation is unacceptable to the people calling the shots.

The REAL reason Celebrity is not enforcing the dress code: COMPETITION.

They know, and you know too, that you are just a phone call (or a mouse click) away from booking with another cruise line. See Gail's (Tuggers) recent thread if you are under the impression that your multiple cruises with them are more important than the booking of a Celebrity virgin.

I think that Celebrity does an exceptional job in so many areas. But I also understand that they are a wing of a major publicly-traded company that needs to maximize sales and minimize costs. And those needs only escalate as competition drives the market.

[jerseyjohn711]

Anyone who wants the final answer on what Celebrity is really saying when they "request" certain attire should read Wolfgang Howell's post on page 1 of this thread.

 

A literal reading of the word "request" would seem to allow for someone to wear a Hawaiian shirt and speedos to a formal dinner. Come to think of it, that sounds like something a dopey lawyer would wear to prove a point.

 

Celebrity is merely using the word "request" in lieu of "require" because that is what etiquette dictates under the circumstances. The contextual implication is "require"....albeit a requirement that appears to be unenforced.

 

I always hate seeing lawyers and their briefs. ho ho ho (let me stop before my own license to practice law gets suspended for making bad puns.

[canderson]

 

Celebrity is merely using the word "request" in lieu of "require" because that is what etiquette dictates under the circumstances. The contextual implication is "require"....albeit a requirement that appears to be unenforced.

Depending upon which Celebrity document you read, the word REQUIRE is indeed used, not simply REQUEST. Not, of course, that this matters at all to some, as they'll scream "Foul!" and "Ambiguity!" and take the lesser of the choices to their advantage given any opportunity.

[Andy]

SO many of you have suggested that Celebrity assign the responsibility of "fashion police" to one of the (preferably higher ranking) shipboard staff.

After a long and successful career in the hospitality industry, please allow me to state that it is EXTREMELY unlikely that we will ever see that happen.

The competition in our industry is at an all-time high, and only growing by leaps and bounds each and every day. Hotels, restaurants, resorts, and cruise lines are all fighting for your dollar. The consumer has more information available to him/her than ever before, and frequently that information arrives with the potential of what we call a "more, better, different" experience from a competitor.

In a nutshell, we in the hospitality industry feel that ANY confrontation with a customer is a losing one. And although many of you seem to feel that it is not only possible but necessary to "redirect" a cruise customer's choice of clothing, that subject could, possibly, result in a confrontation. And even the possibility of confrontation is unacceptable to the people calling the shots.

The REAL reason Celebrity is not enforcing the dress code: COMPETITION.

They know, and you know too, that you are just a phone call (or a mouse click) away from booking with another cruise line. See Gail's (Tuggers) recent thread if you are under the impression that your multiple cruises with them are more important than the booking of a Celebrity virgin.

I think that Celebrity does an exceptional job in so many areas. But I also understand that they are a wing of a major publicly-traded company that needs to maximize sales and minimize costs. And those needs only escalate as competition drives the market.

 

Hi Palms !

 

I would say your comments are very accurate. I am sure it is not what most of us want to hear, but the bottom line is.... Celebrity (Via Royal Caribbean) is a public company, and revenues and profits are what it is all about. They have to walk a very fine line, as to not offend passengers. Competition is huge, and will likely get stronger in the next few years. I am sure every Cruise Line feels a strong need to try to keep everyone as happy as possible.

 

I know Canderson feels the solution is simple, and I do like Canderson's idea, but somehow, I doubt it would happen. We can hope though.

[Dan and Sally]

I enjoy the dress up nights but have often cruised with people that don't want to dress up. They have not come to dinner on formal nights so as not to offend. That is sad. I do not wish any passengers not to enjoy their cruise experience due to stuffed shirt - hoity toities. On our last cruise a couple at dinner decided to stay on for another 11 days, but they just did not care to dress up anymore. They were told, by all at table, that they should come to dinner and there was no offense taken.

 

While thoroughly enjoying a wonderful back to back on Constellation, we noticed some (not a great many, thankfully) passengers that flatly disregarded Celebrity's evening dress codes. We saw one young man at dinner in the San Marco restaurant on formal night in parachute pants and nike t-shirt. We spoke to several staff members, asking why Celebrity wasn't enforcing the dress codes, and from the assistant maitre 'd to the waiter, assistant waiter the bar servers, the resounding response was that when a staff member attempts to enforce the dress codes, the offending passengers often write nasty things about them on the comment cards, not even related to the enforcement of the dress codes, and some staff have actually been fired as a result.

 

I sincerely hope those passengers sh*t their beds upon returning home.:cool:

[Ma Bell]

Sally,

 

I can understand the feelings you have for others but I think the point you miss is that there are plenty of opportunities for people who don't like to dress for dinner. There are lots of cruiselines that have a more casual atmosphere and there are other venues on board Celebrity ships for those who don't want to dress up. Most of the evenings are more relaxed and if there are those who don't want to dress up on formal nights it is their choice to eat elsewhere. There is no need to feel sad about it. I guess we could feel sad for those who take the time and trouble to do what is requested to spend an evening that has a more formal ambience. I wonder if you would feel sorry for a bridesmaid who showed up at the wedding wearing smart casual clothing instead of her bridesmaid dress because she didn't feel like dressing up.;) It really has nothing to do with being "hoity toidy".

[jessemon]

Now I'm confused. I went to one of my files from our last cruise with Celebrity (It was the 12/20/04 Christmas cruise on the Horizon) pulled out the daily Celebrity Today paper and the daily events and activities sheet.

Here we go...

Dress Code in The Starlight Restaurant: Jeans, T-shirts, tanktops, swimsuits, robes and bare feet are not permitted in the Starlight restaurant at any time. Shorts are not permitted at dinner. Guests are expected to respect this sailing tradition for the ambiance of the cruise.

In the daily activities it said...

This Evenings Dress Code: Formal...Ladies: A dressy outfit...Gentlemen: Dark suit & tie, dinner jacket or tuxedo. What's a dressy outfit?:confused: I also thought that dress code means exactly that. you will dress according to code. We had dress codes in school...if you didn't dress according to code...you got to go home and explain it to your father.:eek:

This all started with someone saying that a pax was wearing a T-shirt in the diningroom. Note: T-shirts are not allowed in the diningroom at any time. That means breakfast, lunch and dinner. So that means for those of us throwing stones...no T-shirts ever in the diningroom.

We always dress. We don't get to do it often here at home in Tampa. It feels great to look good. If someone does not dress the proper way at dinner, I'm not going to let it drive me nuts. If they are at my table...I will asked to be moved or ask to have them moved to another table. Maybe what the lines in general need to do is on the first night that is formal or informal weed out these people and put them all in a corner with each other. Making sure that the table or tables are next to the kitchen door.:p

[babylene]

You know what? I don't think it is our business what other people wear....even the one in a nike t-shirt. We are all passengers and "in the same boat"! It's only dress code. If someone doesn't want to follow it, that's their problem, not mine. Another person's outfit is not going to spoil my vacation. You see all kinds of so-called "formal" outfits...some look great, others don't. I saw people dressing formally on casual nights...to me, that looked equally out of place. It is human nature to try to conform.

 

Why don't they enforce the dress code? The posters here who want a fashion police are most likely in the minority. I am willing to bet that most pax just want to have fun and don't give this issue too much thought.

 

Ma Bell...a bridesmaid? I don't think so. She has to wear a chosen colour, maybe fabric and maybe even the style. Even a formal wedding...much more exciting and glamourous than Celebrity formal night...can't compare. And if someone showed up dressed ridiculously....no one would say anything. I have a few relatives that have to "make a statement"....so...we know what they are like! It really is their problem, no one else's...and they don't manage to spoil a thing!

 

I can't believe I got into this...but I have a terrible cold...I have to go to bed...but I cough when I lie down....I didn't cough once while writing this...so it is medicinal!!!

[BTDookie]

My partner and I only cruise X. Now, we are not the dressy-uppy types. While we will attend casual and informal meals in the dining room, we draw the line at the formal night. Just not into it at all. We cruise to relax and unwind not to be seen and dress to impress. And we are cool with that and yes prior to departure pax are well informed about specific dress requirements.

 

I must report that on my recent trip on Connie, a very casually dressed couple was refused service in the dining room on formal night and escorted by a staff member to the Casual Dining area and seated at a table, right next to us.

 

Now on same trip one afternoon I saw the following:

1. A woman walking though the buffet with a lit cigarette taking a drag

2. A man in swim trunks and no shirt

3. A man in shorts with no shirt

4. A woman in a bikini top.

 

I found this disgusting and I did not see any attempt by the staff to address it. To me, this is almost worse than jeans on a formal night.

[spearmint]

Sally,

 

I can understand the feelings you have for others but I think the point you miss is that there are plenty of opportunities for people who don't like to dress for dinner. There are lots of cruiselines that have a more casual atmosphere and there are other venues on board Celebrity ships for those who don't want to dress up. Most of the evenings are more relaxed and if there are those who don't want to dress up on formal nights it is their choice to eat elsewhere. There is no need to feel sad about it. I guess we could feel sad for those who take the time and trouble to do what is requested to spend an evening that has a more formal ambience. I wonder if you would feel sorry for a bridesmaid who showed up at the wedding wearing smart casual clothing instead of her bridesmaid dress because she didn't feel like dressing up.;) It really has nothing to do with being "hoity toidy".

 

--

Well said, Ma Bell. By the way, I took my own advice and sent an e-mail to Celebrity on this topic/thread. Even if they do not respond to me, I hope that they really do check out these boards. There are some great ideas and comments here.

[lysolqn]

On our Century cruise in December the evening dress code was such a joke that for the most part those who complied with it actually looked out of place, particularly on informal nights. Passengers were allowed into the dining room at night dressed in shorts, tee shirts, bathing suit cover-ups, sweat pants, jogging suits, tank tops, and the like. Not only didn't they pass muster for dress on formal and informal nights, they didn't even pass for casual night attire.

I don't fault the passengers - they're either too stupid or too arrogant to be embarrassed by their rudeness. I place the blame solely on X for not having the courage of its own convictions.

I also find it curious that many people who have no problem ignoring the dress code altogether often complain about chair hogs, passengers smoking in non-smoking areas of the ship, people cutting in front on them on line, saving seats in the theater and so on. Guess there's a double standard when it comes to wanting others to respect rules and guidelines that are important to you, while you can simply pick and choose those you wish to live by.