Accessible Cabins Re Classed on Iona.

[Selbourne]

4 minutes ago, Cpt Pugwash said:

It's not a Scooter issue it's about Full Time Wheelchair Users and as you know not every Full Time Wheelchair user uses a Scooter.

In post #5 you stated “it looks like if you are a Full Time Wheelchair user you cannot travel on (the) Iona as they don't have any cabins big enough”. I don’t believe that this is true.
 

From what I can gather, the issue appears to relate to some or all of the accessible inside cabins. As I have stated, I have seen a comprehensive review on YouTube of an accessible balcony cabin on Iona and there is plenty of room for a wheelchair user. I cannot comment on scooters as my wife doesn’t use one, but I know that they are not as manoeuvrable as a manual wheelchair, hence my comment. We have booked a Deluxe Accessible balcony cabin on Iona, which is even bigger than the one shown in the review, so I have no doubt that my wife, who is a full time wheelchair user, will be fine.  

[Cathygh]

There was a lot of discussion on social media when Iona was launched about this very issue so P&O has finally taken action about it. I believe that by law, to be accessible, there must be room to turn a wheelchair, so a 1 metre width is required. It's a huge design fault, something missing in the original spec, but should have been picked up before the build began. I recall some of the cabins have a step to the bathroom as well.

[Selbourne]

7 minutes ago, Cathygh said:

There was a lot of discussion on social media when Iona was launched about this very issue so P&O has finally taken action about it. I believe that by law, to be accessible, there must be room to turn a wheelchair, so a 1 metre width is required. It's a huge design fault, something missing in the original spec, but should have been picked up before the build began. I recall some of the cabins have a step to the bathroom as well.

Whilst P&O probably aren’t governed by U.K. planning laws, we have always found them to be very accommodating in so far as accessibility is concerned. The accessible balcony cabin on Iona that we have seen the review of had moved this even further forward, with initiatives such as an electrically operated balcony door, a height adjustable basin and pull down top rails in wardrobes, all of which are a godsend for full time wheelchair users such as my wife. With all of these thoughtful touches on Iona, I really struggle to believe that they would render the bathroom inaccessible  by having a step into it but, if true, that would indeed be a reason why they shouldn’t be classified as accessible cabins. 

[Cpt Pugwash]

Accessible Balcony Staterooms customers now having there bookings cancelled and are being told it is because not enough turning space for Full Time Wheelchair Users.

See post and answers which started last year when people thought it was for Covid Isolation but not anymore.

[Selbourne]

@molecrochip Can you shed any light on this issue? 

[Selbourne]

This is the YouTube review that I was referring to. It shows a standard Accessible Balcony Cabin on Iona. As can clearly be seen, there is plenty of room for a wheelchair user, both in the main cabin and the bathroom. There are no steps anywhere, with level access into the bathroom and out onto the balcony. We have booked a deluxe balcony cabin, which is bigger again than the one shown in this video.

 

I have asked @molecrochip who works for Carnival / P&O to shed some light on this issue. My booking is for three adjacent deluxe balcony cabins, so in the unlikely event that we cannot go we would cancel all three cabins. 
 

 

[Selbourne]

This seems to have gone quiet. In the absence of any concrete information to the contrary, is it safe to assume that this declassification issue only applies to some or all of the accessible inside cabins? I was hoping for a response from @molecrochip who is usually able to quash any false rumours. We have heard nothing about our accessible deluxe balcony cabin booking on Iona.

[molecrochip]

On 2/13/2022 at 11:37 AM, Cathygh said:

There was a lot of discussion on social media when Iona was launched about this very issue so P&O has finally taken action about it. I believe that by law, to be accessible, there must be room to turn a wheelchair, so a 1 metre width is required. It's a huge design fault, something missing in the original spec, but should have been picked up before the build began. I recall some of the cabins have a step to the bathroom as well.

There is an issue with certain cabins. I understand that this is not a design issue. These cabins were designed as partially accessible and have enough room for a wheelchair or scooter to enter but not to move through the entire room hence the 'not enough turning space for full time wheelchair users' comment.

 

They were never meant to be sold as fully wheelchair accessible however they do appear to have been sold as such. You may notice a previous version of the booking website asked if you wanted fully accessible, partially accessible or hearing/visually adapted however accessible cabins are now only bookable by phone again.

 

As a UK registered ship, UK accessibility requirements apply. Additionally, cabin layouts are the same across all brands receiving the class of ship. One of those brands is Carnival Cruise Lines therefore the fully accessible cabins will have had to meet the ADA requirements, which frankly, are more stringent than the UK requirements.

 

On 2/13/2022 at 10:01 PM, Cpt Pugwash said:

Accessible Balcony Staterooms customers now having there bookings cancelled and are being told it is because not enough turning space for Full Time Wheelchair Users.

See post and answers which started last year when people thought it was for Covid Isolation but not anymore.

Two separate issues. Most of the cancellations have been on Ventura/Britannia because their quarantine areas changed.

[molecrochip]

On 2/12/2022 at 10:24 AM, Rammers said:

9228 PF grade is one of them.

It is, its a different shape room, shorter but slightly wider. 9222, 9223 and 9229 are the other three cabins affected I believe.

[Selbourne]

Thanks @molecrochip. We have Accessible Deluxe Balcony Cabin 10437 booked on Iona for next year. Are you able to confirm that this cabin is not affected by the declassification issue and that neither this cabin or 10441 and 10447 Deluxe Balcony Cabins (which I have also booked for our daughters) could be affected by quarantine issues if, God forbid, this is still an issue next year? Thanks in anticipation. 

[Cpt Pugwash]

2 hours ago, molecrochip said:

There is an issue with certain cabins. I understand that this is not a design issue. These cabins were designed as partially accessible and have enough room for a wheelchair or scooter to enter but not to move through the entire room hence the 'not enough turning space for full time wheelchair users' comment.

 

They were never meant to be sold as fully wheelchair accessible however they do appear to have been sold as such. You may notice a previous version of the booking website asked if you wanted fully accessible, partially accessible or hearing/visually adapted however accessible cabins are now only bookable by phone again.

 

As a UK registered ship, UK accessibility requirements apply. Additionally, cabin layouts are the same across all brands receiving the class of ship. One of those brands is Carnival Cruise Lines therefore the fully accessible cabins will have had to meet the ADA requirements, which frankly, are more stringent than the UK requirements.

 

Two separate issues. Most of the cancellations have been on Ventura/Britannia because their quarantine areas changed.

1- I made my booking by phone not TA filled i filled in all the paperwork and was given the cabin i asked for.

2- And if all the stateroom bookings being cancelled because of quarantine areas you would think after Covid being around for what is it 2 years now P&O would have got there act together by now. 

[Cruisemeister2002]

Fortunately I am able bodied enough at present to not need a wheelchair or any form of help with walking. But you would have thought that a brand new ship would be better designed for all that would like to cruise. Recent reports have highlighted the problems concerning certain balcony cabins where people can gawp into the cabin. All a bit disconcerting when taking into account the amount of money spent on building these ships.

[Fionboard]

Think Iona is badly designed all over. Atrium like an airport terminal (no atmosphere), The Quays like a McDonalds,  and too crowded on open decks even operating at half capacity (hate to think what it will be like when full). Thought cabins cramped too, could hardly open wardrobe door as so close to bed! But she seems very popular so obviously just not to my taste.

[davecttr]

9 minutes ago, Fionboard said:

Think Iona is badly designed all over. Atrium like an airport terminal (no atmosphere), The Quays like a McDonalds,  and too crowded on open decks even operating at half capacity (hate to think what it will be like when full). Thought cabins cramped too, could hardly open wardrobe door as so close to bed! But she seems very popular so obviously just not to my taste.

I don't think you can say it is an atrium as the Glass House and Keel & Cow occupy a lot of what used to be open space. If captains officer intros etc even return the only suitable place would be the Skydome. I found the Quays very pleasant if you avoid busy times. The internal layout in a lot of balcony cabins depends on the bathroom location. If it is to the right of the door the layout is bathroom/sofa/bed/balcony. Bathroom on the left gives bathroom/bed/sofa/balcony. 

 

The promenade deck cabin arrangements are awful with the balconies being overlooked by people passing. I wonder how they will fill those cabins, especially the conservatory suites. Maybe they hope to attract exhibitionists or the unwary new cruisers. IMO better to have those cabins designed as 'insides' without a window or a mirrored glass window.

 

The smaller passenger/deck space ratio falls as ships get bigger so expect more of the same with future ships.

[molecrochip]

On 2/17/2022 at 8:09 PM, Cruisemeister2002 said:

Fortunately I am able bodied enough at present to not need a wheelchair or any form of help with walking. But you would have thought that a brand new ship would be better designed for all that would like to cruise. Recent reports have highlighted the problems concerning certain balcony cabins where people can gawp into the cabin. All a bit disconcerting when taking into account the amount of money spent on building these ships.

This argument doesn't work. These rooms are no different to ground floor hotel rooms, pool side rooms etc which often sell for a premium. It sounds harsh but, if you don't like them, don't book them, someone else will. They are purely different to what's gone before.

13 hours ago, Fionboard said:

Think Iona is badly designed all over. Atrium like an airport terminal (no atmosphere), The Quays like a McDonalds,  and too crowded on open decks even operating at half capacity (hate to think what it will be like when full). Thought cabins cramped too, could hardly open wardrobe door as so close to bed! But she seems very popular so obviously just not to my taste.

The atrium feels a little cold - agreed but the design is based upon extensive customer focus group feedback. 

[molecrochip]

On 2/16/2022 at 10:40 PM, Cpt Pugwash said:

1- I made my booking by phone not TA filled i filled in all the paperwork and was given the cabin i asked for.

2- And if all the stateroom bookings being cancelled because of quarantine areas you would think after Covid being around for what is it 2 years now P&O would have got there act together by now. 

When I say they were sold as fully accessible rather than partially accessible, I mean they were entered in the system as fully accessible so whoever offered you the cabin on the phone would have been none the wiser.

 

Regarding quarantine cancellations. There is no crystal ball which dictates when the quarantine cabins will be reduced or eliminated. These are done so many weeks ahead of the cruise - once its confirmed that the current level of quarantine arrangements are being kept in place. P&O could cancel all those cabins for all future bookings and then you get unhappy customers with 2023 cancellations, when in practice, no quarantine areas may remain by then.

 

Since quarantine areas were established, where vacant cabins existed, sufficient have been retained to relocate passengers however, especially with accessible cabins, these were sometimes already fully booked therefore relocation is not an option. So, P&O have two options a) cancel some cains now and risk quarantine protocol's being dropped and therefore cancellations unnecessary, or b) wait until specific protocols for each cruise confirmed.

[molecrochip]

On 2/16/2022 at 8:35 PM, Selbourne said:

Thanks @molecrochip. We have Accessible Deluxe Balcony Cabin 10437 booked on Iona for next year. Are you able to confirm that this cabin is not affected by the declassification issue and that neither this cabin or 10441 and 10447 Deluxe Balcony Cabins (which I have also booked for our daughters) could be affected by quarantine issues if, God forbid, this is still an issue next year? Thanks in anticipation. 

Sorry Selbourne, too far out to confirm anything. Hope is no quarantine by then.

[Selbourne]

8 minutes ago, molecrochip said:

Sorry Selbourne, too far out to confirm anything. Hope is no quarantine by then.

Yes I hope so too. In fact, if the risk of quarantine still remains we would probably cancel anyway. I guess I am most keen to know that Deluxe Balcony Cabin 10437 isn’t affected by the ‘declassification’ issue mentioned earlier in the thread, as my wife is a full time wheelchair user.

[MaisieMoo123]

9228, 10331, 16326, 16327 and 16331 have been reclassified as PARTIALLY ACCESSIBLE.  This is due to the turning circle not being big enough for certain mobility aids.  To say Iona only has 55 accessible cabins to start with this is terrible especially when you also take into account all those that are currently in the isolation zones.  Let's hope that they take all this into consideration when they build Arvia!

[Selbourne]

5 minutes ago, MaisieMoo123 said:

9228, 10331, 16326, 16327 and 16331 have been reclassified as PARTIALLY ACCESSIBLE.  This is due to the turning circle not being big enough for certain mobility aids.  To say Iona only has 55 accessible cabins to start with this is terrible especially when you also take into account all those that are currently in the isolation zones.  Let's hope that they take all this into consideration when they build Arvia!

Thanks for that info. If that’s the totality of the affected cabins it is worth noting that they are all inside cabins, so we can hopefully assume that none of the other grades of Accessible cabins are affected by this reclassification?
 

My understanding is that there are some passengers who book an accessible cabin because they use a scooter to get around the ship (and ashore) but just park them inside the cabin door and don’t use them at all within the cabins. Presumably, these passengers would still be able to use these declassified cabins, leaving the other accessible inside cabins for those who need a wheelchair or similar to move within the cabin?

[molecrochip]

3 hours ago, MaisieMoo123 said:

9228, 10331, 16326, 16327 and 16331 have been reclassified as PARTIALLY ACCESSIBLE.  This is due to the turning circle not being big enough for certain mobility aids.  To say Iona only has 55 accessible cabins to start with this is terrible especially when you also take into account all those that are currently in the isolation zones.  Let's hope that they take all this into consideration when they build Arvia!

To far past that point re Arvia. I have slightly different cabin numbers to you, but fundamentally the same reason and all inside cabins.

[Cpt Pugwash]

Sadly the list of cabin No's being listed on here as now Partially Accessible is not complete as my cabin has been reclassified and have been informed by P&O and is not included in the lists.

[davecttr]

8 hours ago, Cpt Pugwash said:

Sadly the list of cabin No's being listed on here as now Partially Accessible is not complete as my cabin has been reclassified and have been informed by P&O and is not included in the lists.

If you check the list on the Iona deck plans you will see that not all apparently identical cabins in a block have been reclassified. I would have thought that apart from being a mirror image those cabins would all be the same internal layout

[Cpt Pugwash]

2 hours ago, davecttr said:

If you check the list on the Iona deck plans you will see that not all apparently identical cabins in a block have been reclassified. I would have thought that apart from being a mirror image those cabins would all be the same internal layout

So why list cabins that have been reclassified if list not complete, it would be like part listing the cabins being used for Isolation.

[Denarius]

On 2/18/2022 at 10:09 PM, molecrochip said:

This argument doesn't work. These rooms are no different to ground floor hotel rooms, pool side rooms etc which often sell for a premium. It sounds harsh but, if you don't like them, don't book them, someone else will. They are purely different to what's gone before.

The atrium feels a little cold - agreed but the design is based upon extensive customer focus group feedback. 

But it does. There is imo a world of difference between a poolside hotel room giving easy access to a swimming pool area and a ships cabin open to, but giving no access to a public walkway.