Most controversial cruise opinion??

[cruiseny4life]

1 minute ago, scooter6139 said:

My NEW controversial opinion:  All gambling chat should get it's own thread.  😛

I was writing a response earlier about controversial opinions...it was going to be more cruel (and likely run afoul of the censors)....thank you for stating what should be obvious!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[UKstages]

15 minutes ago, tetleytea said:

By "spent", do you mean gambling losses, or they bet a sum total of $20k?   I am not making any assumptions:  I am asking you.   How much do you estimate they would have gotten comped?   On that $20k they lost?  Or bet?

 

respectfully, it has been suggested many times, many ways that you should just hang it up... that you either have no genuine interest in learning how this works or you are incapable of understanding how it works. you do, after all, believe in "the law of averages," which isn't a law and isn't a thing.

 

the terms you use above to try to figure out loss and comps are contradictory. 

 

i would assume if somebody "spends" 20K, then it's gone... it has been spent. it ain't coming back. but that number only tells you how much they lost. unless they made one 20K bet and lost, it's meaningless. it doesn't tell you what their theoretical average is. 

 

so if somebody says they "bet" 20K, it still tells you nothing.

 

and if somebody tells you they "lost" 20K, it still tells you nothing.

 

what the casino wants to know is what is your average bet, what machines or games do you play, what is the hold of those machines and how long do you play.

 

i would guess, but i have no way of knowing for sure, that a person who "lost" 20K playing slot machines, probably cycled 150K - 200K through the machines. of course, if the 20K is simply their "bankroll," it's also possible they could have won. in any case, they would likely be rewarded with a comped haven suite. but the suggestion that you have to lose an amount equal to the value of your comped suite is a nonstarter. as should be evidenced by this thread... there are people on here getting haven comps and discounts with losses that are far, far, far, far less. and some have reported big wins.

[Sailing12Away]

3 hours ago, weltek said:

Controversial opinion: A standard balcony isn't worth it, unless you can get a corner one that has a little more space. If the price difference is substantial, I'd rather pay for an oceanview and use the money for VIBE passes.

Large balconies are worth it.

For those of us who need fresh air and prefer the privacy of a balcony for it, I'll take any balcony over an oceanview any day. Vibe is nice, but an extra cost. And I can't just stumble out to Vibe in my PJs like I can with my own balcony.

[cruiseny4life]

18 minutes ago, Sailing12Away said:

For those of us who need fresh air and prefer the privacy of a balcony for it, I'll take any balcony over an oceanview any day. Vibe is nice, but an extra cost. And I can't just stumble out to Vibe in my PJs like I can with my own balcony.

Does Vibe have a dress code? I'd totally stumble my way there in my PJ's...hmm controversial opinion - I wear my PJ's everywhere on board...because they're athletic shorts and a t-shirt. 🙂

[sid_9169]

22 minutes ago, cruiseny4life said:

Does Vibe have a dress code? I'd totally stumble my way there in my PJ's...hmm controversial opinion - I wear my PJ's everywhere on board...because they're athletic shorts and a t-shirt. 🙂

For men, I assume that a speedo that covered the Frank and beans would be the minimum. For women, I guess that a skimpy string bikini, preferably paired with a recent wax job...

[Beach Life 1]

53 minutes ago, tetleytea said:

How do you perceive that as misread?   Yes, of course it was their money (prior to spending it, of course).  That's what spending is.   But you said that if they spent $20k, then they would have gotten a lot more than $5k in comps.   By "spent", do you mean gambling losses, or they bet a sum total of $20k?   I am not making any assumptions:  I am asking you.   How much do you estimate they would have gotten comped?   On that $20k they lost?  Or bet?

 

 

"I think if these people he was talking to,  are Elite status,  and get comps,  they really don't need his help figuring out how much the Casino will give them.  A non gambler,  telling someone how the Casino comps work, is like a civilian telling a fire fighter how to put out fires. I think a fire fighter would know more about  how to put out fires; more then a stranger he just met on the street."

 

Not exactly.  Gambling is a potentially addictive behavior.   It's more like a non-drug user telling a drug user how drugs work  (which has been done to me before, by the way.  I was told I was in no position to talk about drugs unless I did them.  Which obviously I summarily rejected that idea).

 

 

"But when I look at the points on my Casino card,  on the last day of a cruise,  I can pretty much figure what kind of comped Cruise I can get next time.  Also,   we plan how much money we are going to spend based on how much the cruise would have cost if we paid outright.  If we are in a suite that would have cost $10,000 for two people,  and we don't go over that amount,  then it's a wash.  If we spend more then  $10,000 of OUR money,  then,  yes,  we lost."

 

That.   That data.   How many points on your casino card?   What did you net?   What is your estimated total amount of bets (I say "estimated", because more often than not gamblers don't know the exact sum total of their own bets, either).  

 

I respect that it is YOUR money to lose, spend, whatever...and indeed, it helps me anyway.  After all, the more money the casino pulls in, the lower my own cruise fare.  But a few things:

 

1)   If you have family members who are not on board with it, that is not victimless behavior.  And they are not necessarily here, on CC, to defend themselves.    And....

2)   We all know that, indeed, the casinos are making money, and we know where they are making it from:   from you.   And that means there is no way the total of all the comps they give out exceeds people's average losses.  

 

My issue is that these comps are being marketed as somehow exceeding people's losses when we know that cannot be true, and then other people go off and spend THEIR money on that non-truth.   The variance aspect of people's individual results only serves to further obfuscate that fact.  

 

If I meet you, a stranger in a cruise bar, I don't know whether you are a victim of that marketing, a perpetrator, know and don't care, or...what....   That's why I ask the question.

 

OMG,  give it a rest.   I don't know what you want me to explain to you.  Comps are based on your points.   Whether you got those points by spending your own money,  or by winning money and then spending that,  you are going to get comped something.    For every point you have,  that means $5.00 was either put through a machine,  or bet at a table.  If you have 10,000 points,  that means $50,000 was put through the machines or bet at a table game.   That does not mean,  the player SPENT $50,000 of their own money.   You can sit at a slot machine,  and put a $100 bill into it,  and spin and spin and spin.  Win lose, win lose, win lose.  Maybe you sat there for an hour.  In that hour you got 100 points.  That means,  even though you only put $!00 dollars into the machine,  your points show as $500 played.    So, if these people lost $20,000,  that means they would have played $100,000.  Are they going to get a $100,000 comped room?   Of course not,  but they would get more then  $5,000 in comps.   Nobody should be playing just to get comps,   but if you're going to play,  and you know how much you have to spend,  and that amount does not exceed the comp you got,  what is the problem?  Like I said,  if I have a $10,000 comped cabin,  and I spend $10,000,  it's the same as me just paying for a cabin and not gambling.  If I spend more,  then it's up to me to know how much I'm willing to "lose".  Because if I spend more then the comp,  I consider that a loss.

 

[tetleytea]

45 minutes ago, UKstages said:

 

respectfully, it has been suggested many times, many ways that you should just hang it up... that you either have no genuine interest in learning how this works or you are incapable of understanding how it works. you do, after all, believe in "the law of averages," which isn't a law and isn't a thing.

 

the terms you use above to try to figure out loss and comps are contradictory. 

 

i would assume if somebody "spends" 20K, then it's gone... it has been spent. it ain't coming back. but that number only tells you how much they lost. unless they made one 20K bet and lost, it's meaningless. it doesn't tell you what their theoretical average is. 

 

so if somebody says they "bet" 20K, it still tells you nothing.

 

and if somebody tells you they "lost" 20K, it still tells you nothing.

 

what the casino wants to know is what is your average bet, what machines or games do you play, what is the hold of those machines and how long do you play.

 

i would guess, but i have no way of knowing for sure, that a person who "lost" 20K playing slot machines, probably cycled 150K - 200K through the machines. of course, if the 20K is simply their "bankroll," it's also possible they could have won. in any case, they would likely be rewarded with a comped haven suite. but the suggestion that you have to lose an amount equal to the value of your comped suite is a nonstarter. as should be evidenced by this thread... there are people on here getting haven comps and discounts with losses that are far, far, far, far less. and some have reported big wins.

 

Not true on several counts.  In fact I could say the same about a number of people here:  a disinterest in the facts.  And would be right.   

 

However, breaking off the gambling thread into its own thread--I don't think that is controversial.   Does anyone here really disagree with that?

 

[tetleytea]

4 minutes ago, jezabel80 said:

OMG,  give it a rest.   I don't know what you want me to explain to you.  Comps are based on your points.   Whether you got those points by spending your own money,  or by winning money and then spending that,  you are going to get comped something.    For every point you have,  that means $5.00 was either put through a machine,  or bet at a table.  If you have 10,000 points,  that means $50,000 was put through the machines or bet at a table game.   That does not mean,  the player SPENT $50,000 of their own money.   You can sit at a slot machine,  and put a $100 bill into it,  and spin and spin and spin.  Win lose, win lose, win lose.  Maybe you sat there for an hour.  In that hour you got 100 points.  That means,  even though you only put $!00 dollars into the machine,  your points show as $500 played.    So, if these people lost $20,000,  that means they would have played $100,000.  Are they going to get a $100,000 comped room?   Of course not,  but they would get more then  $5,000 in comps.   Nobody should be playing just to get comps,   but if you're going to play,  and you know how much you have to spend,  and that amount does not exceed the comp you got,  what is the problem?  Like I said,  if I have a $10,000 comped cabin,  and I spend $10,000,  it's the same as me just paying for a cabin and not gambling.  If I spend more,  then it's up to me to know how much I'm willing to "lose".  Because if I spend more then the comp,  I consider that a loss.

 

 

 

To simplify;    

 

a) comps are based on points.   Obviously....

b)  So you are saying the $20k is in losses, on probably a $100k "bankroll", or sum total of all bets combined (which is an assumption...theoretical...estimated...average...etc. etc.)

c)   You believe the end result is, that person would probably get comped more than $5k--or more than 25% on those $20k in losses/$100k in bankroll.  

d)   You are saying 1 point is deposited for every $5 you bankroll.   Which means you would get 20k points on that $100k bankroll.   And those 20k points should translate into more than $5k in rewards.    I would actually agree--NCL should comp back significantly more than 25% in free cruises.  

e)    If you get comped back 100% of your spending (which is defined to be your gambling losses), then what is the problem?   

 

To which my answer to e) is, that simply does not happen, on average.  We seem to be in agreement that you get comped back more than 25%, but still much less than 100%.

 

 

I'm not going to apologize for not "giving it a rest" until we get to the bottom of some really basic questions.  You guys can't tell me to "give it a rest"  *AND* say I am not interested in "understanding" it.   You can't have it both ways.

 

[ChiefMateJRK]

1 hour ago, scooter6139 said:

My NEW controversial opinion:  All gambling chat should get it's own thread.  😛

I doubt that thought will be considered "controversial" at this point.

[ChiefMateJRK]

1 hour ago, Sailing12Away said:

And I can't just stumble out to Vibe in my PJs like I can with my own balcony.

Some of us don't even wear PJs.  🐀

[ChiefMateJRK]

1 hour ago, cruiseny4life said:

Does Vibe have a dress code? I'd totally stumble my way there in my PJ's...hmm controversial opinion - I wear my PJ's everywhere on board...because they're athletic shorts and a t-shirt. 🙂

My PJs are boxers, and a fellow CC member once suggested that they spotted me at the Mojito bar in said boxers.

 

 

(I've never denied it 🤣🥳)

[Travelling2Some]

1 hour ago, cruiseny4life said:

Does Vibe have a dress code? I'd totally stumble my way there in my PJ's...hmm controversial opinion - I wear my PJ's everywhere on board...because they're athletic shorts and a t-shirt. 🙂

I have deliberately acquired several pairs of "pajamas" that totally look like regular street clothes for cruising (they also work in a pinch if I'm running short on laundry).  Like a lot of non-morning people I desperately need coffee the minute my feet hit the floor (and, no, I don't know what time that will be so room service doesn't work on sea days).  I don't eat breakfast so a quick trip to the nearest coffee is all I want. 

[wil e coyote]

5 hours ago, weltek said:

Controversial opinion: A standard balcony isn't worth it, unless you can get a corner one that has a little more space. If the price difference is substantial, I'd rather pay for an oceanview and use the money for VIBE passes.

Large balconies are worth it.

Thanks @weltek! We'll get this thread back on topic if it's the last thing we do! 🤪

 

I LOVE balconies - even small ones. For me there is nothing like sitting out there by myself first thing in the morning with a book and a cup of coffee. Lots of times I get so wrapped up looking at the birds/ flying fish/ocean that I don't bother with the book. The sound of the ocean totally makes the balcony worth it for me - but that is just my opinion...😉

[tetleytea]

Balconies depend on the itinerary.   I used to be in the "I'm never in the cabin anyway; might as well get an inside cabin" crowd, but then I did an Alaska on a balcony.   ...but then I did a Caribbean on a balcony, and was never there.  Vibe would have made more sense.

[pcakes122]

1 hour ago, tetleytea said:

I'm not going to apologize for not "giving it a rest" until we get to the bottom of some really basic questions.  You guys can't tell me to "give it a rest"  *AND* say I am not interested in "understanding" it.   You can't have it both ways.

 

OK, I wasn't going to do this because I didn't want to throw you to the wolves, but I think you need to take this to the actual casino forum on Cruise Critic.  There you will find a whole group of serious players who will find you and your assumptions entertaining. Head over there with your questions if you really want to understand how it works: https://boards.cruisecritic.com/forum/455-cruise-casinos/

 

Good luck & God speed.

[tetleytea]

20 minutes ago, pcakes122 said:

OK, I wasn't going to do this because I didn't want to throw you to the wolves, but I think you need to take this to the actual casino forum on Cruise Critic.  There you will find a whole group of serious players who will find you and your assumptions entertaining. Head over there with your questions if you really want to understand how it works: https://boards.cruisecritic.com/forum/455-cruise-casinos/

 

Good luck & God speed.

Likewise.   You may head there as well if you're interested in how it works.   And if you want the gambling topic dropped here, no cheap shots or ad hominem attacks.

 

 

[Travelling2Some]

1 hour ago, wil e coyote said:

Thanks @weltek! We'll get this thread back on topic if it's the last thing we do! 🤪

 

I LOVE balconies - even small ones. For me there is nothing like sitting out there by myself first thing in the morning with a book and a cup of coffee. Lots of times I get so wrapped up looking at the birds/ flying fish/ocean that I don't bother with the book. The sound of the ocean totally makes the balcony worth it for me - but that is just my opinion...😉

All of that makes total sense.  The only reason I don't routinely book balconies is that I live very close to the water and see all of that routinely.  If I lived in a place away from the ocean it would be a different story.  But since I live near the ocean and see it every day I don't usually want to double my cruise fare to see it.  Alaska or a few other places where the scenery is both constant and very different from home are exceptions though.  On those itineraries I have been known to pony up for the balcony.  Otherwise I feel like I am paying double for a very small patch of real estate that may not be value for money.

[pcakes122]

1 hour ago, tetleytea said:

Likewise.   You may head there as well if you're interested in how it works. 

I've been posting there for years.  Whether or not we see you there will be an indicator of how interested you truly are in the topic. See you there!

[tetleytea]

1 hour ago, pcakes122 said:

I've been posting there for years.  Whether or not we see you there will be an indicator of how interested you truly are in the topic. See you there!

I've got a pretty good idea of how these comps actually work, just as I also have a feel for how you SAY comps work (the two don't necessarily match, BTW).   I also don't necessarily view heavy gamblers as the experts on gambling--I consider more the statisticians, insurance actuaries, and the people who actually made the machines the experts (just as I consider the rehab doctors the experts on drug use--not the drug users).   So I will go there on my own time, as I see fit.  But thanks for the invite.

[UPNYGuy]

10 hours ago, jezabel80 said:

Not trying to cause a controversy.   I don't know how the subject of comps came up in your discussion,  but if I was  having a conversation with you,  about comps and Casino play,  and you made that remark to me,  I think I would have promptly left too.  Not because what you said was right,  but because  your remark sounded rather condescending and rude.   You have no idea how much they spent,  and believe me,  if they had spent $20,000 of their own money,   they would have received a cabin and comps worth much more then $5,000.

 

It was deliberately meant to be perceived that way. and like I said, 20k was a rough figure. The comps came up because they were making small talk with DW and I. 

Edited August 16, 2022 by UPNYGuy

[UPNYGuy]

7 hours ago, tetleytea said:

Gambling is a potentially addictive behavior.   It's more like a non-drug user telling a drug user how drugs work  (which has been done to me before, by the way.  I was told I was in no position to talk about drugs unless I did them.  Which obviously I summarily rejected that idea).

 

 

this is exactly why I thumbed my nose and made a snarky comment. I felt like they were addicted to gambling. 

[The Shrike]

The Godfather is overrated.  There, I said it and I don't regret it.

Oh...I thought we were taking this "Controversial cruise opinion" thing completely off the rails.

No?  We should stay on topic?  What a controversial stance to take!  😉  Well, then, how about this:  Viking has it right, no kids under 18.

[PATRLR]

6 hours ago, The Shrike said:

The Godfather is overrated. 

Now those are fighting words right there...

 

[Sailing12Away]

8 hours ago, The Shrike said:

No?  We should stay on topic?  What a controversial stance to take!  😉  Well, then, how about this:  Viking has it right, no kids under 18.

Isn't Viking a bit hoity toity with their actual fancy nights and such, unlike NCL where we can walk for coffee in our PJs/Undies? We've been eyeing Virgin Voyages for such a reason... just haven't found one that fits our schedule yet.

 

I would love to see NCL have an adult-only (but not a winky winky "adult only") cruise one day. We tend to book our trips at the opposite times when kids and families will be on board, so we haven't experienced many in our travels. It's more so because they're cheaper than to specifically avoid the germ mongers, but that's a nice plus. 

 

Not anti-children per se, but when the free at sea drinks package is flowing, I don't want to have to constantly watch my sailor mouth.

[PATRLR]

1 hour ago, Sailing12Away said:

Isn't Viking a bit hoity toity with their actual fancy nights and such, unlike NCL where we can walk for coffee in our PJs/Undies? We've been eyeing Virgin Voyages for such a reason... just haven't found one that fits our schedule yet.

<snip>

Not anti-children per se, but when the free at sea drinks package is flowing, I don't want to have to constantly watch my sailor mouth.

I think most of us are more concerned about you coming for coffee in your undies than about your sailor mouth 🙂  🙂😉