Carnival Shows - slight rant

[DallasGuy75219]

38 minutes ago, Colorado Beach Bum said:

I suppose it depends on your criteria.  From 2010-2019 Carnival blew RCL away in Net Income $20.7 Billion vs $9.7 Billion.  

Carnival Corp has a much larger total fleet than Royal Caribbean Group, so my "criteria" is something not biased towards Carnival Corp's larger fleet size.

 

Come back with something comparable that adjusts for fleet size, like total revenue per ship in service, and we'll talk.

[BlerkOne]

4 minutes ago, DallasGuy75219 said:

Carnival Corp has a much larger total fleet than Royal Caribbean Group, so my "criteria" is something not biased towards Carnival Corp's larger fleet size.

 

Come back with something comparable that adjusts for fleet size, like total revenue per ship in service, and we'll talk.

Carnival Corp is about 90 ships and Royal about 60? Neither corporation releases figures like you suggest, so that is a nonstarter.

[DallasGuy75219]

1 hour ago, CruizinSusan70 said:

Maybe forethought is the wrong word, but the bean counters had to realize they were always a follower and never an innovator.  They were getting their lunch handed to them for years by RCI and NCL and even MSC was starting to bypass them with certain builds.  Taking delivery of the Excel Class ships doesn't really come into play that much since all of their entry level competitors have also been taking new ships into their fleets and all have additional ships in their respective pipe lines.  As a matter of fact, all of their competitors have more ships in the pipeline compared to the two Excel ships that Carnival has.

I think we're essentially making to the same point. 

 

Somewhere around the late 2000s or early 2010s some Carnival executive gave an interview or speech and publicly said they weren't going down the same road as Royal and NCL, i.e. they were going to do their own thing and weren't going to be an innovator or even a follower.  

 

Fast forward ~10 years... Carnival sees the revenue premium its competitors are getting for their innovative ships meanwhile Carnival's newbuilds are still souped up copies of the 20+ year old Destiny class, and Carnival can't compete with hard product so has to compete with price. 

 

But when you're competing on price and can't differentiate your product to get any sort of revenue premium over your competitors, the only way to increase profits is to cut costs, so Carnival got into a downward spiral of more and more cuts and even less and less pricing power.  Then throw in a 1.5 year total shutdown of cruising and Carnival is in the worst financial position of the big 3 cruiseline holding companies. 

[DallasGuy75219]

22 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

Carnival Corp is about 90 ships and Royal about 60? Neither corporation releases figures like you suggest, so that is a nonstarter.

Both publish total revenue and total fleet size in their annual reports.  Or use comparable published numbers like passenger fare revenue for the numerator, number of double occupancy lower berths for the denominator, etc. 

 

Not that hard to calculate but I'll let @Colorado Beach Bum do that analysis over the 10-year period he alluded to, lest this cruising hobby become too much like my real job.

[Colorado Beach Bum]

3 minutes ago, DallasGuy75219 said:

Both publish total revenue and total fleet size in their annual reports.  Or use comparable published numbers like passenger fare revenue for the numerator, number of double occupancy lower berths for the denominator, etc. 

 

Not that hard to calculate but I'll let @Colorado Beach Bum do that analysis over the 10-year period he alluded to, lest this cruising hobby become too much like my real job.

All I said was it depends on your criteria.  You have valid points but net income is valid is well.  McDonald’s blows away any restaurant in income but others offer legit better offerings just as Carnival vs RCL.  It’s the great thing about competition and free enterprise - many choices for us as consumers.  

[BlerkOne]

35 minutes ago, DallasGuy75219 said:

Both publish total revenue and total fleet size in their annual reports.  Or use comparable published numbers like passenger fare revenue for the numerator, number of double occupancy lower berths for the denominator, etc. 

 

Not that hard to calculate but I'll let @Colorado Beach Bum do that analysis over the 10-year period he alluded to, lest this cruising hobby become too much like my real job.

I believe you were the first to assert the Royal was eating Carnival's lunch, so that would be a head to head competition between cruise lines, not corporations, but please enlighten us with what figures you have to support your speculation.

[Itried4498]

4 hours ago, CruizinSusan70 said:

The fact about where particular shows started has nothing to do with the fact that the Excel Class ships have two showrooms to put on two different shows at the same time.  Just like the MG can have two comedy shows going on simultaneously and they also have more live music venues than anything on the Vista Class.

I never said anything about the age of the ship, the comparison is the size of the ship and because of the size difference, the Excel Class has twice the venues that can do multiple shows simultaneously compared to the Vista Class.  Once I sailed on the Mardi Gras, the rest of the fleet is permanently in my rear view mirror.

Enjoy the Panorama and the Navigator on the west coast.  In 15 months you'll have 3 Excel Class ships east of Galveston to choose from unless you just wish to cruise from Cali, which is totally your option.

The MG is better because its duel show rooms enable it to perform two shows at once?  Yet it maintains virtually the same entertainment program as the Panorama so presumably if it’s performing two shows at the same time, they will repeat at some point.  Which is largely a derivative of its sheer capacity.  A Fantasy ship, for example, lacks the capacity to do so.

 

I’m sure the MG is an awesome ship, but it’s 90% the same experience that I enjoyed on the Holiday as a kid on my first Carnival cruise in the mid-90s, or as a small kid on my very first every cruise on the Seaescape in the mid-80s.  Roller coasters, laser tag, zip lining, etc. are great perks but mean nothing if you don’t utilize them.  Many of us cruise to cruise. 

[CruizinSusan70]

32 minutes ago, Itried4498 said:

The MG is better because its duel show rooms enable it to perform two shows at once?  Yet it maintains virtually the same entertainment program as the Panorama so presumably if it’s performing two shows at the same time, they will repeat at some point.  Which is largely a derivative of its sheer capacity.  A Fantasy ship, for example, lacks the capacity to do so.

 

I’m sure the MG is an awesome ship, but it’s 90% the same experience that I enjoyed on the Holiday as a kid on my first Carnival cruise in the mid-90s, or as a small kid on my very first every cruise on the Seaescape in the mid-80s.  Roller coasters, laser tag, zip lining, etc. are great perks but mean nothing if you don’t utilize them.  Many of us cruise to cruise. 

I also cruise to cruise and don't utilize Bolt, or the ropes course with the small zip line or go laser tagging.  Don't even play mini golf or ping pong or any other peripheral stuff that you brought up. 

 

You have not cruised on the Mardi Gras, I have cruised on it for 28 days.  It is nothing like the rest of the fleet. 1) Over 40 + comedy shows over 6 days of a 7 day cruise in 3 different venues. 2) Multiple different shows going on  in the main theater as well as Grand Central at the same time.  3) Live music going on by a multiple piece band, not a solo performer at Pig & Anchor. 4) Three live showings as well as tryouts for the Family Feud.  5) Live music at the Pig & Anchor, Brass Magnolia, Fortune Teller and Havana Bars, usually 3 of them at the same time in the evening.

 

I am only comparing what the entertainment offerings are on the  Mardi Gras versus what is offered on the Vista Class ships now, let alone what was on the Holiday in the mid 90's.  You are 100% clueless if you think what is offered on the Mardi Gras today is 90% of what was on the Holiday 27 years ago.  And I won't even start to compare the food offerings on the MG versus the Holiday of 1995.  LOL.

 

There is so much to see, do and enjoy on the MG that it's impossible to do it all in 7 days.  Just ask anybody that has cruised on her and they will confirm this.

[BlerkOne]

18 hours ago, CruizinSusan70 said:

 

 

There is so much to see, do and enjoy on the MG that it's impossible to do it all in 7 days.  Just ask anybody that has cruised on her and they will confirm this.

I have sailed on Mardi Gras and agree. I also don't plan on sailing on the ship again. And a b2b cruise is no substitute for a single cruise of sufficient length. It doesn't matter how much is offered above what is possible to do