Without Valor- a Mini Review

[Hoosierpop]

42 minutes ago, Jamman54 said:

I'm New Jersey born and raised and I love my state. Nobody's ever called me grumpy! 😁 Sail away from New York is the best bar none. If anyone chooses not to sail from New York due to a perceived people problem,  that is their problem, not ours! 😎

Let’s go with NYC and surrounding areas. Get outside of NYC, good. Get into the garden state part of NJ, also good. But as far as the city goes, Escape From NY had it right.

Edited January 22, 2023 by Hoosierpop

[MJSailors]

@Hoosierpop You said it  in your post. “Why other people being rude affects people is a mystery to me.”

Enough said. 

MJ

[icft]

2 hours ago, Jamman54 said:

... Nobody's ever called me grumpy! 😁

Let me fix that - You are grumpy!

 

😇

[Hoosierpop]

11 hours ago, MJSailors said:

@Hoosierpop You said it  in your post. “Why other people being rude affects people is a mystery to me.”

Enough said. 

MJ

At least we can agree on that. Just surprising how many people complain about what other cruisers say, do, dress, how they look at you, etc. Just grumpy people letting others affect them. Weird. 

[ShakyBeef]

On 1/21/2023 at 8:19 AM, Hoosierpop said:

 

 

Having said that, there has never been a cruise where I’ve let passenger behavior affect my enjoyment. Unless someone physically assaults me, I just don’t care. Why other people being rude affects people is a mystery to me. 

 

I have been shaking my head over this statement since yesterday, and I was going to ignore it and let it go, but you seem to be doubling down with this now:

 

45 minutes ago, Hoosierpop said:

Just surprising how many people complain about what other cruisers say, do, dress, how they look at you, etc. Just grumpy people letting others affect them. Weird. 

 

...and so my resolve to be silent has failed.

 

By its very definition, rude behaviour affects people:

 

rude

adjective

1.

offensively impolite or ill-mannered.

 

of·fen·sive

adjective

1.  causing someone to feel deeply hurt, upset, or angry.

 

 

Perhaps, if one isn't at all affected by rudeness of others, they are inured to it.  Perhaps because they are habitually rude themselves.  Reminds me of a saying something like, "If you can't tell who the jerk in the room is, the jerk might be you."😉 

[Hoosierpop]

3 minutes ago, ShakyBeef said:

 

I have been shaking my head over this statement since yesterday, and I was going to ignore it and let it go, but you seem to be doubling down with this now:

 

 

...and so my resolve to be silent has failed.

 

By its very definition, rude behaviour affects people:

 

rude

adjective

1.

offensively impolite or ill-mannered.

 

of·fen·sive

adjective

1.  causing someone to feel deeply hurt, upset, or angry.

 

 

Perhaps, if one isn't at all affected by rudeness of others, they are inured to it.  Perhaps because they are habitually rude themselves.  Reminds me of a saying something like, "If you can't tell who the jerk in the room is, the jerk might be you."😉 

If you want to let other passengers’ behavior affect you, that’s on you. I don’t get it. I’m too busy having fun in my cruises.

[ShakyBeef]

Just now, Hoosierpop said:

If you want to let other passengers’ behavior affect you, that’s on you. I don’t get it. I’m too busy having fun in my cruises.

 

It's not a choice of "letting it" affect you.  Rude behaviour affects people.  That's why it's called rude.  It's what the word means.  Yeah, all those rude people are also "too busy having fun" on their cruises to be concerned with how their behaviour is affecting others.😏

[Hoosierpop]

30 minutes ago, ShakyBeef said:

 

It's not a choice of "letting it" affect you.  Rude behaviour affects people.  That's why it's called rude.  It's what the word means.  Yeah, all those rude people are also "too busy having fun" on their cruises to be concerned with how their behaviour is affecting others.😏

Ah. I guess I’ve been cruising wrong. So, instead of just having fun and not focusing on people I don’t even know, I should let others’ behavior negatively affect my cruise?

 

Man, I’m sure glad you copied and pasted the definition of rude for me. That way, I can have less fun on cruises but make sure I’m letting rude behavior affect me properly. 
 

And your shaking your head over this since yesterday is delicious irony for me. Appreciate the fun times. 

Edited January 22, 2023 by Hoosierpop

[meskel503]

Just thought I'd pop in and say we did an 8-day Alaska on Spirit last May and had a great time the food and ship were great.  Seen a couple of the shows and they were good, not great.  We then did 26-days on Spirit September to October. Panama Canal then a b2b in the Carribean 16, 2 and 8 days.  The food in the MDR was generally good sometimes great.  Did not do the buffet for dinner so can't comment.  The ship never seemed crowded.   Had a great steward and the dining team were also great.  Alaska is wonderful and the Spirit is a good ship.  Enjoy.

[jjzblla]

We sailed on the Valor in 2018 and we did not care for the layout or that stadium seating either. The decor is ancient and even 5 years ago the ship didn't seem to be maintained very well.

 

We've also decided that we will no longer do 5 day cruises.  The clientele and the atmosphere are not what we enjoy.

 

We did a 5 day in June and an 8 day at Christmas and on both ships the passengers seemed to be more inconsiderate, rude, and aggressive than on our past cruises.  We would often see people push past waiting passengers to be first in the elevators and would be completely inconsiderate to people on scooters or using walkers.  Initially we thought it was just how it is on 5 day cruises (cheaper cruises) but our 8 day at Christmas wasn't a cheap cruise.  Maybe it's the Carnival clientele, maybe it's just how people are these days.

[Indytraveler83]

3 hours ago, Hoosierpop said:

If you want to let other passengers’ behavior affect you, that’s on you. I don’t get it. I’m too busy having fun in my cruises.

 

Sorry.  No.

 

I'm gay, and gay people have a history of having violence committed against them.  Lately, we've seen plenty of videos of fights, brawls and things like that on cruise ships.

 

Congrats if you don't feel like other people's actions could hurt you.  But guess what? They can and do.  If we get "looks" and are treated rudely, it sends red flags all over the place.  Can we dance together?  Can we hold hands?  What happens if we do?  What happens when one of those people giving us looks has a few too many cocktails?

 

Other people's actions can very well harm you, and paying attention to social cues can help a lot if you want to avoid harm.  Again, congrats if you are in a position that you can't possibly be harmed, or nothing you ever do could offend someone.  But for many of us, it's important to assess the situation we are in. 

[Hoosierpop]

10 minutes ago, Indytraveler83 said:

 

Sorry.  No.

 

I'm gay, and gay people have a history of having violence committed against them.  Lately, we've seen plenty of videos of fights, brawls and things like that on cruise ships.

 

Congrats if you don't feel like other people's actions could hurt you.  But guess what? They can and do.  If we get "looks" and are treated rudely, it sends red flags all over the place.  Can we dance together?  Can we hold hands?  What happens if we do?  What happens when one of those people giving us looks has a few too many cocktails?

 

Other people's actions can very well harm you, and paying attention to social cues can help a lot if you want to avoid harm.  Again, congrats if you are in a position that you can't possibly be harmed, or nothing you ever do could offend someone.  But for many of us, it's important to assess the situation we are in. 

Are you assuming I’m not gay and haven’t been subject to dirty looks? Huh. Anyway, Yes, situational awareness is critical anywhere you go. And if people being rude make you physically afraid, do what you need to do.  As for me, I just don’t let what others are doing bother me until I believe it’s a danger to me physically. And that’s never happened in a cruise. 

[Indytraveler83]

4 minutes ago, Hoosierpop said:

Are you assuming I’m not gay and haven’t been subject to dirty looks? Huh. Anyway, Yes, situational awareness is critical anywhere you go. And if people being rude make you physically afraid, do what you need to do.  As for me, I just don’t let what others are doing bother me until I believe it’s a danger to me physically. And that’s never happened in a cruise. 

 

I'm assuming nothing about you except a lack of social awareness, or just an eagerness to stir the pot (or both).  

 

The bottom line is, if I'm uncomfortable, I'd rather not pay to be there. And for people who have social awareness, they may want to know when/where they may also feel uncomfortable.

[Hoosierpop]

11 minutes ago, Indytraveler83 said:

 

I'm assuming nothing about you except a lack of social awareness, or just an eagerness to stir the pot (or both).  

 

The bottom line is, if I'm uncomfortable, I'd rather not pay to be there. And for people who have social awareness, they may want to know when/where they may also feel uncomfortable.

I totally agree with your point. If people are not comfortable, especially when they are paying to be somewhere, they shouldn’t do it. But that’s each person’s decision. It seems like some people have an issue with the fact that I don’t worry about what others are doing on a cruise. I don’t care that people don’t. I have a blast on every cruise. 

Edited January 22, 2023 by Hoosierpop

[Indytraveler83]

7 minutes ago, Hoosierpop said:

I totally agree with your point. If people are not comfortable, especially when they are paying to be somewhere, they shouldn’t do it. But that’s each person’s decision. It seems like some people have an issue with the fact that I don’t worry about what others are doing on a cruise. I don’t care that people don’t. I have a blast on every cruise. 

 

I think it's perspective.

 

I don't care if someone is wearing a hat in the dining room, a t shirt on formal night, or has 4 Guys Burgers sitting in front of them. Other people's actions that do not interfere with me don't matter.  And I totally understand how some people have gone overboard trying to police other people's behaviors.

 

At the same time, there also has to be an understanding that if a rude action is directed toward me, or if someone is having a shouting match directly behind my lounge chair (both things happened on this cruise), that their actions do affect me, and make my cruise worse.

 

I've chuckled and laughed at other passenger's behavior in the past, and not let it affect me.  My point about this cruise, and the reason I mentioned it, is that the bad behavior was so over the top and so noticable that it did make my cruise worse, when these things normally don't.  

[Hoosierpop]

3 minutes ago, Indytraveler83 said:

 

I think it's perspective.

 

I don't care if someone is wearing a hat in the dining room, a t shirt on formal night, or has 4 Guys Burgers sitting in front of them. Other people's actions that do not interfere with me don't matter.  And I totally understand how some people have gone overboard trying to police other people's behaviors.

 

At the same time, there also has to be an understanding that if a rude action is directed toward me, or if someone is having a shouting match directly behind my lounge chair (both things happened on this cruise), that their actions do affect me, and make my cruise worse.

 

I've chuckled and laughed at other passenger's behavior in the past, and not let it affect me.  My point about this cruise, and the reason I mentioned it, is that the bad behavior was so over the top and so noticable that it did make my cruise worse, when these things normally don't.  

And I get that. My point wasn’t directed at what you specifically endured. I get you likely have had to deal with that before. I agree with your conditions about what you want when you cruise. Especially the shorter cruises. 

[icft]

5 hours ago, ShakyBeef said:

 

I have been shaking my head over this statement since yesterday, and I was going to ignore it and let it go, but you seem to be doubling down with this now:

 

 

...and so my resolve to be silent has failed...

 

Same boat for me.

 

Apparently someone coming up to his partner and saying "God you're ugly" doesn't bother him. Apparently when stepping to get off the elevator when the doors open and finding a few guys walking in so stopping expecting them to let him by he is instead told to "get out of the way" it doesn't bother him.

 

I have seen both these things on recent cruises and even though I was not involved it bothered me. I can't and don't want to understand those who it doesn't bother.

[Eli_6]

This was very similar to our experience on the Pride...only add sheets that literally weren't washed from the prior guests, a shower that never worked the entire sailing, and my son getting left with a bruise after an employee manhandled him. Then we came home with Covid.  The only reason I am continuing to cruise with Carnival is because guest services did attempt to make it right. Here on CC, I was raked over the coals for sharing my experience. I am glad some other Carnival cruisers are seeing that, in fact, a cruise can literally be worse than being at home/work. It can be much worse.

[Eli_6]

As an aside, I would like to point out that Valor is the ship that so many people keep jumping off of...Now we know why. 

[Eli_6]

I just read this entire thread and I have to say that no matter how much you say that other people's actions don't affect you, if nastiness is aimed directly at you, it does affect how you feel.  In one instance, I watched a couple literally push my elderly mother with a walker out of the way and cut in front of not only her but a paraplegic in a wheelchair he was controlling with his mouth for an elevator and nearly knock her over. When I said something to them about the fact that people who were mobility impaired were waiting before them, I was called a "fat ass" by the man.  I burst into tears as I had relatively recently had a baby and was sensitive about my weight.  I am sure these type of situations are all the more sensitive for people who are LGBTQ or people of color, etc.   

[Indytraveler83]

17 minutes ago, Eli_6 said:

 I am glad some other Carniv in fact, a cruise can literally be worse than being at home/work. It can be much worse.

 

13 minutes ago, Eli_6 said:

As an aside, I would like to point out that Valor is the ship that so many people keep jumping off of...Now we know why. 

 

Yeah, this ship has some bad, bad karma right now.  And agreed on it being worse than being at home.  I haven't read your review, but I understand what you mean.

 

If it's of any consequence, I was looking at the Celebrity boards to see if that's a line we might be interested in... And boy the complaints are fierce there too!  I was also at the Hertz car rental counter on Saturday when the RCI ship came in, and the passengers there were rampantly complaining as well.

 

I really feel like the issues are industry wise, and it feels like the cruise lines are putting 110% effort on their best known ships, while letting their issues (financial, maintenance, staffing) show on the older ships.  

[momof3cruisers]

On 1/21/2023 at 4:30 PM, Indytraveler83 said:

 

Out of curiosity, was your Spirit cruise to Alaska or a Caribbean port?  A lot of what I've been reading had her initial Caribbean return to service as awful, while reviews seem to have trended better since she started in Alaska again.   

Caribbean and yes, it was maybe the third cruise back. I’m honestly shocked to read what eastoftheboston wrote above. There was NO consistency in the dining room at all. Whole sections were virtually ignored by waitstafff for significant periods of time. We waited in the theater with the other back to back people for well over an hour after the meeting time with literally no one coming to tell us anything. This was after they literally refused to give us any info about what to do that morning when we asked two days before upon receiving the regular debarcation letter. About 30% of the B2B folks hadn’t gotten any info about where or when to meet.  It took a report to our invisible room steward (who didn’t clean our room if we weren’t out by 9:30 in the morning btw and who was nowhere to be found the first day when we  had absolutely no toilet paper in our cabin) and three trips to guest services to get our balcony door that didn’t stay shut while at sea to be fixed. It was truly the worst Cruise experience I have ever had.

[momof3cruisers]

On 1/21/2023 at 6:19 PM, Jamman54 said:

Currently on the Spirit and having a great time with no real issues. Can I ask why the Spirit was so bad for you.  You didn't give any reasons why you were so unhappy. 😎

I am so glad service seems to have improved. I answered with some of it above. Dinner was consistently over 2 hours long with long periods spent sitting with dirty plates in front of us, often never received the bar drinks we ordered.  Incorrectly prepared drinks in the comedy club were a frequent problem, (I got a Midori sour that was simply midori over ice and a “Kailua and cream with a splash of club soda” that was cream over ice)  no bar staff anywhere in the main show room, the lobby during pre dinner music or anywhere on deck.  This was my 4th cruise since the restart and I was stunned. 

[Indytraveler83]

14 minutes ago, momof3cruisers said:

Caribbean and yes, it was maybe the third cruise back. I’m honestly shocked to read what eastoftheboston wrote above. There was NO consistency in the dining room at all. Whole sections were virtually ignored by waitstafff for significant periods of time. We waited in the theater with the other back to back people for well over an hour after the meeting time with literally no one coming to tell us anything. This was after they literally refused to give us any info about what to do that morning when we asked two days before upon receiving the regular debarcation letter. About 30% of the B2B folks hadn’t gotten any info about where or when to meet.  It took a report to our invisible room steward (who didn’t clean our room if we weren’t out by 9:30 in the morning btw and who was nowhere to be found the first day when we  had absolutely no toilet paper in our cabin) and three trips to guest services to get our balcony door that didn’t stay shut while at sea to be fixed. It was truly the worst Cruise experience I have ever had.

 

That's terrible that you this experience, but I'm glad to see that it's improved.  Maybe Carnival has been slowly switching to more experienced staff for the highly competitive Alaska cruises?

[momof3cruisers]

1 minute ago, Indytraveler83 said:

 

That's terrible that you this experience, but I'm glad to see that it's improved.  Maybe Carnival has been slowly switching to more experienced staff for the highly competitive Alaska cruises?

Didn’t they come back from Alaska in Sept? We sailed in October. Pretty sure they are currently sailing from Miami. It’s very cold in Alaska right now. 😂