Casino Table Limits - Allure of the Seas - Jan 2023 -verified.

[Crapster]

Sessions on Allure of the Seas JAN 2023 7 days cruise.

Observations:

 

CRAPS (2 tables) Open ~1PM – late on sea days - Open ~5-6PM – late on port days (approx.)

•               Sign on table said: Table Min was $10 (never $5 all week)

 

They allowed:

(Standard house edge on a Pass Line is 1.41% with no odds)

•                 $10 Pass line they allowed "SINGLE: Odds (0.85% house edge)  [only single odds but 0.85% is still a good bet!]

•                 $25 Pass line they allowed "Double" Odds (0.61% house edge)

•                 $50 Pass line they allowed "3x4x5" Odds (x3 is 0.47%, x4 is 0.37%, and x5 is 0.33% house edge)

•                 While no sign, Dealers allowed $15 Pass line to add odds of $15(4/10) $20(5/9) and $25(6/8)

 

•                 Field paid Double on 2/12  (5.56% house edge)

•                 Standard Proposition bets with standard payoffs. (aka sucker bets, 9.09% and higher house edge)

 

•                 No ALL Tall/All Small/Win them ALL. No Fire (both have 20%+ house edges).

•                 They DO NOT allow $1 increments of the 4/10, only increments of $5. i.e. $20, $25, $30...

•                 They DO round BUY bets commission and allow up to $25 on $1 vig. (4.0% house edge) A $30 bet went to $2 vig.

•                 Largest denomination chip in front of Boxman was BLACK ($100). If buying in heavy and you’re lucky, you may end up with a pocket full of Black chips.

•                 All of the dealers were quick and accurate. Very few new dealers and they were well watched by the other dealers. I didn't see a bad payoff all week.

•                 Most players seemed to buy in for low to medium bankroll. $25-$500. 

•                 Cruise demographics, the same 8 or so players were at the table each day of the trip at some point during the day and all became acquainted.

 

Also noticed:

 

BLACKJACK

BJ $6 Min paid blackjack at 6/5 (1.98% house edge)

BJ $15 Min paid blackjack at 3/2 (0.6% house edge)

...Dealer HIT on 17 at all tables

“Lucky Ladies” side bet pays: 1000; 125; 19; 9; 4 (HIGH 24.71% house edge)

 

3 CARD POKER $10 Min

paid 4, 3, 1 on Ante Bonus (3.8% house edge) and

paid 40, 30, 6, 3, 1 on Pair Plus (7.3% house edge)    <Higher than most!

 

ROULETTE $5 Min. Double Zero (5.26% house edge)

 

TEXAS ULTIMATE HOLDEM (available but I don’t play and did not obtain info) (House Edge ~2.185%)

 

(house edge references - wizardofodds.com)

 

Personal play/results:

95% time was at Craps. My play times were several sessions each day between open thru 9pm each day. Totaled ~30 hours at table for the week.

Buy in $1,000. Consistent in betting $15 Pass Line + max odds and $30 place on 6 & 8. Keeping the 6/8 Place bets up throughout gameplay and pressing $30 to the winning 6 or 8 each time until roll is over. The highest reached on 6/8 for this sailing was $330 . (i.e. 30, 60, 90, …330) .

Unfortunately, this sailing, I cashed out down $200... but,

Earned 5,000 Casino Royal tier points this sailing.

Earned Cruise Certificate for Balcony/Jr Suite, all ships and sailings listed thru Dec 20, 2023 (except blackout dates), plus +$750 Freeplay. 

 

... WINNER six, came easy, take the don't and pay the line!- 

cheers,

[dna1990]

Happy to hear about Craps opening afternoons on SeaDays, that is sometimes hit/miss on cruise ships.  Then after dinner, no room to elbow your way in. Also glad to see that Craps is being "rated" at least to some degree.  RCCL has been traditionally silent to my play in the past (at a similar level).  Doesn't seem to matter on land, but will try this time to ensure my buyin is more noticeable, I suspect ~30 hours for the week will be my pace as well.

 

Did you happen to catch the table max?  And if that amount was "any way to a number" or was some mushy total amount in play...  Hoping I am faced with such a conundrum.  

 

 

[Crapster]

1 hour ago, dna1990 said:

<snip>

Did you happen to catch the table max?  And if that amount was "any way to a number" or was some mushy total amount in play...</snip>

Sorry I forgot to list it. 

• Table max was $500 per bet/number. 

 

Pit staff was super and had many dealers cross trained.

 

During the sea days, and after 1PM, if the Craps table emptied, they would shut it down and reassign dealers. Each time I came up to the closed Craps to ask when it would reopen, they said 5 min and reshuffled idle card dealers over to open it up. They would start with only one side, with a Stickman and single Dealer and part time Boxman. Once they only had 1 Dealer, so the Pit Boss played Dealer until someone replaced them. I've been on Allure several times and give their staff an A+ on their ability to shuffle "well cross trained" dealers every time I'm there. 

 

what you don't want to hear... SEVEN OUT, line away, pay the don'ts, last come, pay behind

cheers,

Edited February 7, 2023 by Crapster

[aubreyc1988]

you don't remember what UTH min was? I am assuming 20.00? 

[pittnh]

Dealer hits on 17 in BJ?  Don't think I've seen that before.  Disappointed to see 6/5 payout.

[Crapster]

44 minutes ago, aubreyc1988 said:

you don't remember what UTH min was? I am assuming 20.00? 

I did forget to check Ultimate Texas Holdem minimums were this Jan sailing, but it was $10 a little over 2 months ago while on Allure.

[Crapster]

1 hour ago, pittnh said:

Dealer hits on 17 in BJ?  Don't think I've seen that before.  Disappointed to see 6/5 payout.

I agree and only play 3/2 BJ tables. I’m also disappointed because I’m spoiled after decades of 3/2. But at the end of the day it only adds just under 1.5% house edge and it’s still one of the lowest bets in the Casino. 

 

Spoiled the same with Craps. I’m used to my sweat spot of 3/4/5

When I first sailed, I was a bit disappointed that Royal Craps only offers a meager Single Odds. Peel back the onion and SINGLE ODDS is 0.85% house edge and still a GREAT bet. I only lost a quarter of a percent by not having 3/4/5.

I always get a chuckle of the guys that cause a scene when told their $10 bet can only have SINGLE ODDS 0.85% house edge - and follow the rant with “And give me a $5 (fill in the blank +9% Proposition Bet)”

 

With regard to SINGLE ODDS, for me, I just redirected my focus to Placing the 6/8 in liew of what I would have used for behind the line Free ODDS.

[dwHokie]

5 hours ago, pittnh said:

Dealer hits on 17 in BJ?  Don't think I've seen that before.  Disappointed to see 6/5 payout.

Soft 17.  Dealer always stands on hard 17.

 

$15 tables and higher are always 3:2, so I always just find one of those.  Difference between $10 and $15 min is worth it to get 3:2.

[pittnh]

2 hours ago, dwHokie said:

Soft 17.  Dealer always stands on hard 17.

 

$15 tables and higher are always 3:2, so I always just find one of those.  Difference between $10 and $15 min is worth it to get 3:2.

 

my math is terrible, can you give an example of a 6:5 blackjack payout vs a 3:2 on a $6 bet?

[Crapster]

9 hours ago, pittnh said:

 

my math is terrible, can you give an example of a 6:5 blackjack payout vs a 3:2 on a $6 bet?

Sorry pittmh, I left off the "S". I should have wrote  "...Dealer HIT on S17 at all tables

 

With regard to paying off a $6 bet on a 6.5 BJ...  
Casino will rounddown to nearest 0.50 cents. A $6 bet would win $7.20 but only pays $7. You loose another $0.20. 
To minimize the house edge on a 6/5 table one should always bet in $5 increments. 

 

My thoughts are the $6 min on a 6/5 table is a marketing ploy as it's attractive for those on a low budget that may not understand their getting shorted on a BJ when betting $6.
 

Edited February 8, 2023 by Crapster

[SHIP TRAVELER]

Thanks for taking your time to give us this detailed report.  We leave on the Allure on Sunday and I appreciate it.

[pittnh]

1 hour ago, Crapster said:

Sorry pittmh, I left off the "S". I should have wrote  "...Dealer HIT on S17 at all tables

 

With regard to paying off a $6 bet on a 6.5 BJ...  
Casino will rounddown to nearest 0.50 cents. A $6 bet would win $7.20 but only pays $7. You loose another $0.20. 
To minimize the house edge on a 6/5 table one should always bet in $5 increments. 

 

My thoughts are the $6 min on a 6/5 table is a marketing ploy as it's attractive for those on a low budget that may not understand their getting shorted on a BJ when betting $6.
 

 

thank you for the detailed explanation

[4hunters]

Thanks for the detailed info, Crapster!  I play craps exclusively and am disappointed to hear about the $10 minimum and only offering single free odds.  We're taking our first ever cruise on Royal this September - I guess I won't be playing.  The good news is that I won't have to risk my normal craps bankroll. 🙂

 

For anyone interested, Carnival Corp. ships (Princess, Holland, Carnival, etc.) still offer $5 pass line minimums with double odds.

 

Again, thanks much for the craps report and stay away from any bets in the middle of the table. 😉

[JupiterTwo]

Noobie here...

 

Is it legal to have a pass line bet and then at some point switch to a don't come bet, having both up at the same time?

[Liljo22]

On the Oasis, the roulette mins were $2 chips with a min of $10 on the inside and a $10 min bet on the outside.  

Edited February 8, 2023 by Liljo22

[4hunters]

4 hours ago, JupiterTwo said:

Noobie here...

 

Is it legal to have a pass line bet and then at some point switch to a don't come bet, having both up at the same time?

Absolutely. Just can’t take your original pass/don’t pass bet down (but you can always take down your free odds bet). 

[Crapster]

On 2/8/2023 at 10:23 AM, 4hunters said:

<snip>am disappointed to hear about the $10 minimum and only offering single free odds.  We're taking our first ever cruise on Royal this September - I guess I won't be playing.</snip>

I really prefer x3/4/5 or x5. But... single odds at 0.85% is still a good bet! While a x3/4/5 house edge is 0.37%, you only lose 0.48% house edge with SINGLE.

Certainty no reason not to play. Without getting into the the dark side, the PASS LINE with no ODDS is one of the best bets in a casino at 1.41%. With SINGLE ODDS it's below 1 percent at 0.85%. So, PLAY and have FUN! Ship Craps is GREAT because you end up playing with a handful of regulars. SINGLE ODDS should not be a deal breaker. 

 

To put Craps bets house edge in perspective, take a look at this table of the most common Craps bets.
The proposition bets in the middle START at 9% thru 16%. 

Edited February 10, 2023 by Crapster

[4hunters]

10 hours ago, Crapster said:

"SINGLE ODDS should not be a deal breaker."

It definitely IS a deal breaker for me when I'm risking double what I normally would on the original even-money pass/don't pass bet ($10 versus $5).  The odds bet (taking or laying) is the only bet in the casino that pays true odds and has zero house edge (by itself).  I choose to play where I can maximize that particular bet. 

 

In short, different strokes for different folks.

[Crapster]

There was a guy that gave the Craps dealer a hard time about Royal's 1x odds 0.85% and as he's complaining, he pitches out a $5 YO. 🤔.    

[nimbex1970]

thanks so much!  Newbie to craps, but fell in love with it over the slots... that winning percent was just better for my pocketbook!  Excited to play again. 

[Crapster]

On 2/7/2023 at 1:32 PM, aubreyc1988 said:

you don't remember what UTH min was? I am assuming 20.00? 

Well, I was cleaning up my phone of excessive photos from the cruise and found one I took of the UTH limits. ... on Allure as of Feb 2023 

Cheers,  

Edited February 12, 2023 by Crapster

[klextra2]

Casino on Allure:  are there any non-smoking tables in the Casino?

[resetjet]

On 2/7/2023 at 9:52 AM, Crapster said:

Sessions on Allure of the Seas JAN 2023 7 days cruise.

Observations:

 

CRAPS (2 tables) Open ~1PM – late on sea days - Open ~5-6PM – late on port days (approx.)

•               Sign on table said: Table Min was $10 (never $5 all week)

 

They allowed:

(Standard house edge on a Pass Line is 1.41% with no odds)

•                 $10 Pass line they allowed "SINGLE: Odds (0.85% house edge)  [only single odds but 0.85% is still a good bet!]

•                 $25 Pass line they allowed "Double" Odds (0.61% house edge)

•                 $50 Pass line they allowed "3x4x5" Odds (x3 is 0.47%, x4 is 0.37%, and x5 is 0.33% house edge)

•                 While no sign, Dealers allowed $15 Pass line to add odds of $15(4/10) $20(5/9) and $25(6/8)

 

•                 Field paid Double on 2/12  (5.56% house edge)

•                 Standard Proposition bets with standard payoffs. (aka sucker bets, 9.09% and higher house edge)

 

•                 No ALL Tall/All Small/Win them ALL. No Fire (both have 20%+ house edges).

•                 They DO NOT allow $1 increments of the 4/10, only increments of $5. i.e. $20, $25, $30...

•                 They DO round BUY bets commission and allow up to $25 on $1 vig. (4.0% house edge) A $30 bet went to $2 vig.

•                 Largest denomination chip in front of Boxman was BLACK ($100). If buying in heavy and you’re lucky, you may end up with a pocket full of Black chips.

•                 All of the dealers were quick and accurate. Very few new dealers and they were well watched by the other dealers. I didn't see a bad payoff all week.

•                 Most players seemed to buy in for low to medium bankroll. $25-$500. 

•                 Cruise demographics, the same 8 or so players were at the table each day of the trip at some point during the day and all became acquainted.

 

Also noticed:

 

BLACKJACK

BJ $6 Min paid blackjack at 6/5 (1.98% house edge)

BJ $15 Min paid blackjack at 3/2 (0.6% house edge)

...Dealer HIT on 17 at all tables

“Lucky Ladies” side bet pays: 1000; 125; 19; 9; 4 (HIGH 24.71% house edge)

 

3 CARD POKER $10 Min

paid 4, 3, 1 on Ante Bonus (3.8% house edge) and

paid 40, 30, 6, 3, 1 on Pair Plus (7.3% house edge)    <Higher than most!

 

ROULETTE $5 Min. Double Zero (5.26% house edge)

 

TEXAS ULTIMATE HOLDEM (available but I don’t play and did not obtain info) (House Edge ~2.185%)

 

(house edge references - wizardofodds.com)

 

Personal play/results:

95% time was at Craps. My play times were several sessions each day between open thru 9pm each day. Totaled ~30 hours at table for the week.

Buy in $1,000. Consistent in betting $15 Pass Line + max odds and $30 place on 6 & 8. Keeping the 6/8 Place bets up throughout gameplay and pressing $30 to the winning 6 or 8 each time until roll is over. The highest reached on 6/8 for this sailing was $330 . (i.e. 30, 60, 90, …330) .

Unfortunately, this sailing, I cashed out down $200... but,

Earned 5,000 Casino Royal tier points this sailing.

Earned Cruise Certificate for Balcony/Jr Suite, all ships and sailings listed thru Dec 20, 2023 (except blackout dates), plus +$750 Freeplay. 

 

... WINNER six, came easy, take the don't and pay the line!- 

cheers,

Did all these 5000 points come from craps?  That is not an easy task.  I play around the same as you and they hardly give me anything.  I bet the don'ts most of the time and the does when the table warms up. So I usually win.  However, I don't press like you do, maybe thats the secret.  I talked to the host and craps pays the worst comps in the casino, BJ and roulette pay alot more and I have found this to be the case.  

 

Also ship casino's don't usually raise the limits when it gets busy.  

[dna1990]

23 hours ago, klextra2 said:

Casino on Allure:  are there any non-smoking tables in the Casino?

Half of the casino is designated non-smoking, and contains about the equal amount of slots/tables.  They have one Craps table on each side, that was plenty for me.

 

But - many of the the non-smoking tables were not often not open during SeaDays until the mid evening.  So day-time Craps is only on the smoking side.

 

I didn't find the smoke as bad as many claim about the Allure.

[Crapster]

On 3/5/2023 at 10:02 AM, resetjet said:

Did all these 5000 points come from craps?  That is not an easy task.  I play around the same as you and they hardly give me anything.  I bet the don'ts most of the time and the does when the table warms up. So I usually win.  However, I don't press like you do, maybe thats the secret.  I talked to the host and craps pays the worst comps in the casino, BJ and roulette pay alot more and I have found this to be the case.  

 

Also ship casino's don't usually raise the limits when it gets busy.  

As DNA mentioned, Smoking side opened first and they only open the non-smoking side as it gets later and busier. 

 

With regard to ratings, average 7 day is around 3,000. Allure and Grandeur rate nicely. Liberty not so much. I play Craps about 95% of the time... BJ only when tired (not often) 

 

PlayRating: While I'll pass 1 number, to offset the limited Pass/Come ODDS, I always cover the 6 & 8 with a $30 PLACE. Each time it wins I press $30. So, 30, 60, 90, 120, until roll ends... I also keep a $1 Dealer bet alongside my 6/8. It often reaches $300 (playing with Casino money at this point). Most of the time the crew "tunes" the ratings after each roll but MY SUSPITION is that the crew are a little liberal resetting my rating when high and each roll looks like $600+ even though we started over. Maybe the tips help. 
None the less, it translates to more free cruises than I can take in a year (4). 

 

Using the betting play mentioned above, here shows how they were rating each day.

Seems to average 5 sail days to make Prime this way.