Opinion on Pinnacle Class ships, particularly Nieuw Statendam - did you find it too large/crowded?

[Banditswife]

We were on NS last year for 2 weeks ( right after Thanksgiving week) & 2 weeks this year (March 25 - April 8.)  The difference was night & day, last year we loved the ship, service & didn't feel crowded at all.  This year it felt under staffed, crowded & loud.  So it might depend on the time of year you sail.  I thought spring break was early March- but found out it is later for most of the country.  We had 150 kids, mostly teens one of our weeks & more on the other week.  I will still sail NS again, but not over a holiday.

[washiotter]

2 hours ago, croozen said:

The two Pinnacle ships we are trying in future are Nieuw Statendam (Baltics/10 day this summer) and Rotterdam (Carribean 9 day) w the latter being during March break. We will thus be experiencing larger ships at HAL. The largest cruise ship we have been on to date has been w Celebrity and we didnt notice the "largeness" too much save for getting on and off it just seemed generally more of a hassle. 

Are you by any chance on the June 8 Baltics sailing? I will also be on that cruise with a 14-year-old!

[AFNavigator]

3 hours ago, croozen said:

Agree. My parents very first cruise experience was a super crowded school March Break Carnival (!) cruise that was absolutely overloaded w kids. They were running amuck everywhere according to my mom and the ship felt really crowded and loud. I think it really soured them going forward from ever cruising again as that was their impression of what cruising was/is. Unfortunate. Personally we still have offspring (14 yo) travelling w us who is subject to school breaks so we are somewhat limited to going at more busy times. The two Pinnacle ships we are trying in future are Nieuw Statendam (Baltics/10 day this summer) and Rotterdam (Carribean 9 day) w the latter being during March break. We will thus be experiencing larger ships at HAL. The largest cruise ship we have been on to date has been w Celebrity and we didnt notice the "largeness" too much save for getting on and off it just seemed generally more of a hassle. 

 

I have really appreciated reading all the feedback and opinions on this topic. thank you!

If you've been on Celebrity, you'll probably find the Pinnacle class ships to be about the same size.  If your 14 YO will be going with you on your Rotterdam Spring Break cruise, he or she might really like the experience because there will be some other teens the same age onboard.  One plus to HAL when their ships are crowded and have a lot of kids onboard is that the kids for the most part are very well behaved.  That's very different from your parents' experience on Carnival where the kids were running amuck.  That's a bad trend Carnival.is trying to get under control but still has work to do.

Edited April 12, 2023 by AFNavigator
Typo

[Maya_C]

1 hour ago, AFNavigator said:

If you've been on Celebrity, you'll probably find the Pinnacle class ships to be about the same size.  

One difference between the largest Celebrity ships and HAL's Pinnacle class ships is the Passenger to Space ratio--the enclosed space (measured in cubic feet) per passenger. The higher the space ratio, the more guests will have a sense of spaciousness on board. The ratio for almost all of Celebrity's ships is in the 35 to 37 range. Most of HAL's ships are in 34 to 36 range. Not a big difference there. But K-dam, Rotterdam, and NS have a ratio of 31.

 

I have only anecdotal evidence to suggest this number matters. Friends of ours were on the Konigsdam after several cruises on Celebrity ships. They reported that the K-dam felt crowded and they had trouble finding any public area that wasn't full of people. 

 

If you want to know more about this subject, google passenger space ratio. The only HAL ships I've been on,  Veendam and Zaandam, have the highest space ratios in the fleet--36. The Celebrity ships I've taken have a ratio of 35. I never felt crowded on either line. 

 

The space ratio is based on a ship's capacity, so if a ship is less than full, passengers will feel it is more spacious. Your mileage may vary, as the saying goes.

[CNSJ]

14 minutes ago, Maya_C said:

One difference between the largest Celebrity ships and HAL's Pinnacle class ships is the Passenger to Space ratio--the enclosed space (measured in cubic feet) per passenger. The higher the space ratio, the more guests will have a sense of spaciousness on board. The ratio for almost all of Celebrity's ships is in the 35 to 37 range. Most of HAL's ships are in 34 to 36 range. Not a big difference there. But K-dam, Rotterdam, and NS have a ratio of 31.

 

I have only anecdotal evidence to suggest this number matters. Friends of ours were on the Konigsdam after several cruises on Celebrity ships. They reported that the K-dam felt crowded and they had trouble finding any public area that wasn't full of people. 

 

If you want to know more about this subject, google passenger space ratio. The only HAL ships I've been on,  Veendam and Zaandam, have the highest space ratios in the fleet--36. The Celebrity ships I've taken have a ratio of 35. I never felt crowded on either line. 

 

The space ratio is based on a ship's capacity, so if a ship is less than full, passengers will feel it is more spacious. Your mileage may vary, as the saying goes.

Hopefully our Naval Architects out there will weigh in, but it is possible that the ratios assume all berths are full.  On Carnival and Celebrity, they tend to have more people per cabin.  HAL will sell cabins from day one that have 4 berths to someone sailing as a couple.

 

I find the Vista Class best for Passenger to space, then the Signature class, and then Pinnacles.  

 

As for the quoted ratios:  it is possible they don't count the Lido retractable pool area as indoor space, but the solarium on a RCI ship or Celebrity would count.

[croozen]

2 hours ago, washiotter said:

Are you by any chance on the June 8 Baltics sailing? I will also be on that cruise with a 14-year-old!

No, July 2nd-12th. Ours has not been at Kids Club since pre pandemic so it will be interesting. 

[Hflors]

3 hours ago, Banditswife said:

We were on NS last year for 2 weeks ( right after Thanksgiving week) & 2 weeks this year (March 25 - April 8.)  The difference was night & day, last year we loved the ship, service & didn't feel crowded at all.  This year it felt under staffed, crowded & loud.  So it might depend on the time of year you sail.  I thought spring break was early March- but found out it is later for most of the country.  We had 150 kids, mostly teens one of our weeks & more on the other week.  I will still sail NS again, but not over a holiday.

Just got off NS on 4/1.  Not my cup of tea.  Neptune Suite was SMALL compared to the older ships.  Ship was full.  Lots of kids, mostly well behaved.  

Pools were packed on sea days.  There were too many people for the amenities.  A ship this size needs 3 pools not 2!!!   OMG!!  There were babies in diapers in the pool.  I thought children needed to be potty trained before being in a pool.   

 

Banditswife, you are correct.  Last Nov it was a different ship.   Our next cruise will be this November and on an older ship.   The new ships have too many people for the amount of amenities on the ship.

[3rdGenCunarder]

10 minutes ago, Hflors said:

Just got off NS on 4/1.  Not my cup of tea.  Neptune Suite was SMALL compared to the older ships.  Ship was full.  Lots of kids, mostly well behaved.  

Pools were packed on sea days.  There were too many people for the amenities.  A ship this size needs 3 pools not 2!!!   OMG!!  There were babies in diapers in the pool.  I thought children needed to be potty trained before being in a pool.   

 

Banditswife, you are correct.  Last Nov it was a different ship.   Our next cruise will be this November and on an older ship.   The new ships have too many people for the amount of amenities on the ship.

 

I've been in neptune suites twice on K. The one along the side was a good size, and the bathroom was very nice. The corner aft we had the first time was much smaller than any corner aft I've had on a Vista  (on a variety of decks), and the bathroom was ridiculous. The stall shower was smaller than a standard phone booth, and no shower over the tub. No way should it have been SB. SX, maybe, but it was inferior to the SA on the side in many ways. 

[saturn93]

4 hours ago, Banditswife said:

We were on NS last year for 2 weeks ( right after Thanksgiving week) & 2 weeks this year (March 25 - April 8.)  The difference was night & day, last year we loved the ship, service & didn't feel crowded at all.  This year it felt under staffed, crowded & loud.  So it might depend on the time of year you sail.  I thought spring break was early March- but found out it is later for most of the country.  We had 150 kids, mostly teens one of our weeks & more on the other week.  I will still sail NS again, but not over a holiday.

I was on the same cruise for the two weeks, and like you, never again on a holiday. They really messed it up with the kids stay free deal they had. Way too many kids.  You could barely move in the pool without running into a kid, or infact, everywhere.  Also, barely any parents, too...especially by the end when you don't know who is with who with the friendships going on. Too much running around the pool area, both the 9th and 10th floors.  I was sitting in the Pizza and Deli area, and all I could hear for 10 minutes is "Marco Polo".  I had the look of "I want to get out of here." My parents called the desk telling them they need to watch the kids, especially during the movie outside.  By the final day, they had someone there keeping watch. It felt like the crew was overwhelmed with the kid amount.

 

Thankfully, the next cruise is a Transatlantic one in October, so it will be much quieter.

[3rdGenCunarder]

11 hours ago, Maya_C said:

One difference between the largest Celebrity ships and HAL's Pinnacle class ships is the Passenger to Space ratio--the enclosed space (measured in cubic feet) per passenger. The higher the space ratio, the more guests will have a sense of spaciousness on board. The ratio for almost all of Celebrity's ships is in the 35 to 37 range. Most of HAL's ships are in 34 to 36 range. Not a big difference there. But K-dam, Rotterdam, and NS have a ratio of 31.

 

I have only anecdotal evidence to suggest this number matters. Friends of ours were on the Konigsdam after several cruises on Celebrity ships. They reported that the K-dam felt crowded and they had trouble finding any public area that wasn't full of people. 

 

If you want to know more about this subject, google passenger space ratio. The only HAL ships I've been on,  Veendam and Zaandam, have the highest space ratios in the fleet--36. The Celebrity ships I've taken have a ratio of 35. I never felt crowded on either line. 

 

The space ratio is based on a ship's capacity, so if a ship is less than full, passengers will feel it is more spacious. Your mileage may vary, as the saying goes.

 

This is an interesting statistic. I have always said I never felt crowded om QM2, even on holiday cruises, so I found a list of ships and sure enough, QM2 has 25% more space per passenger than Vistas, with Cunard's Vistas coming out a bit ahead of HAL's. Another difference is that Cunard doesn't cram in as many 3rd and 4th passengers as HAL has been doing.

[Banditswife]

I will give another example of how the crew was overwhelmed on our NS March 25-April 8 cruise. The aft lido pool was always crowded with people holding chairs all day long.  The crew could not keep up with the refuse (full ashtrays, empty glasses & cans, food waste.)  I do not really blame the crew members, they were just understaffed out there.  And when trying to watch a movie on the big screen there was so much kid noise, it was difficult to hear & enjoy the movie.

 

Advice to HAL: if you know the ship is going to be at full capacity plus, then add crew members if/when possible.  

[3rdGenCunarder]

1 hour ago, Banditswife said:

I will give another example of how the crew was overwhelmed on our NS March 25-April 8 cruise. The aft lido pool was always crowded with people holding chairs all day long.  The crew could not keep up with the refuse (full ashtrays, empty glasses & cans, food waste.)  I do not really blame the crew members, they were just understaffed out there.  And when trying to watch a movie on the big screen there was so much kid noise, it was difficult to hear & enjoy the movie.

 

Advice to HAL: if you know the ship is going to be at full capacity plus, then add crew members if/when possible.  

 

The two times I was on K'dam, the movies by the pool were not kiddie movies. I doubt a little kid would care about Murder on the Orient Express or something like that. They should make that an adult area in the evening. Movies by the pool are a nice "date night" at sea. 

 

Unfortunately, it's difficult to staff up for just a few weeks. Crew work on contracts much longer than that. What HAL needs to do is keep track of the numbers and at some point stop selling cabins to more than 2 occupants. I doubt it will ever happen, but it would be nice.

[Crew News]

I was onboard Rotterdam for New Years with the ship at 115% capacity.  Lots of kids but all seemed to be under control.  To my surprise, there were always tables available at the NY Dell & Pizza.  Even more surprising was so many empty tables at the PG and Tamarind each night.  With so many kids aboard, I don't think that their parents realized that there was no charge if using the Kid's Menu for under 12.

 

While there was no line for my almond and chocolate chip cookies around 2:00 PM, I avoided the Grand Dutch Cafe morning coffee time.  Laundry turnaround time was normal.

 

It seems that more and more HAL ships are sailing with near capacity passenger density in spite of the economy.

[Scuppersisontheboat]

On 4/2/2023 at 2:23 PM, Quo Vadis? said:

Until our September cruise on N Statendam, we had not sailed on HAL since Westerdam in 2008.  We cruised for two and a half weeks from Quebec and loved the ship, so much so that we booked another 8 weeks over Thanksgiving Christmas and New Year.  

The ship is rated at 2,666 (there is a meaning to numbers) but over the holidays up to 600 children boosted that capacity to nearly 3,000.  

There are places to hide, there are timings to consider to avoid crowds.

It is best to avoid vacation time and holidays but we loved our time on board.

Not trying to hijack the thread as my comment goes to the original crowding question - 600 children?!!  I’m super glad I read this thread - I had started one under Celebrity asking Celebrity’ers about their experience with HAL and particularly the music walk.  We’re fairly new cruisers and have been on Celebrity Beyond and Equinox.  On a back to back on the Beyond in January I was blown away by the Broadway quality main shows and stage, the food was wonderful and I never felt crowded except if we timed breakfast wrong on a port day.  We’re usually pretty good at avoiding the herds.  Our boys are 22, 19 and 19, and we all like good music so the HAL Music Walk seems like a very attractive feature, we felt this was something lacking on our Celebrity experience.  There were bands that would play in various locations at a variety of specific times, but not a dedicated space where music could always be found.  However, this post is reminding me why we like Celebrity - no water slides or sport court, usually 2 or max 3 in a room (searching on the HAL site it would have let me put all 5 of us in a suite, OMG!) and premium prices tends to mean less kids.  Don’t get me wrong, I don’t dislike kids but in a confined space like a boat, screaming kids running around would drive me nuts.  We watched a video of the Pinnacle class, I think the Statendam, and looking at pics of the MDR, the tables and chairs looked so close together I don’t see how people could even walk through?  None of the 4 MDR’s or Blu on the Beyond had seating this tight.  
Anyway, this thread is giving me second thoughts as it is a holiday cruise I’m considering (on the Equinox it was a holiday cruise, but not a fair comparison as it was like 50% capacity, the Beyond sailing was nearly at capacity).  Any of you who have been on both cruise lines, am I wrong?

[3rdGenCunarder]

I haven't sailed with X so I can't help with your comparison, but I want to clarify one thing. The music walk bands play sets, but they don't play all the time. 

 

I was on Koningsdam, and I didn't think the MDR tables were closer together than on other ships I've been on. But the design of the MDR makes it a very noisy space unless you luck out on a quiet corner. 

[cruising sister]

3 hours ago, Scuppersisontheboat said:

Not trying to hijack the thread as my comment goes to the original crowding question - 600 children?!!  I’m super glad I read this thread - I had started one under Celebrity asking Celebrity’ers about their experience with HAL and particularly the music walk.  We’re fairly new cruisers and have been on Celebrity Beyond and Equinox.  On a back to back on the Beyond in January I was blown away by the Broadway quality main shows and stage, the food was wonderful and I never felt crowded except if we timed breakfast wrong on a port day.  We’re usually pretty good at avoiding the herds.  Our boys are 22, 19 and 19, and we all like good music so the HAL Music Walk seems like a very attractive feature, we felt this was something lacking on our Celebrity experience.  There were bands that would play in various locations at a variety of specific times, but not a dedicated space where music could always be found.  However, this post is reminding me why we like Celebrity - no water slides or sport court, usually 2 or max 3 in a room (searching on the HAL site it would have let me put all 5 of us in a suite, OMG!) and premium prices tends to mean less kids.  Don’t get me wrong, I don’t dislike kids but in a confined space like a boat, screaming kids running around would drive me nuts.  We watched a video of the Pinnacle class, I think the Statendam, and looking at pics of the MDR, the tables and chairs looked so close together I don’t see how people could even walk through?  None of the 4 MDR’s or Blu on the Beyond had seating this tight.  
Anyway, this thread is giving me second thoughts as it is a holiday cruise I’m considering (on the Equinox it was a holiday cruise, but not a fair comparison as it was like 50% capacity, the Beyond sailing was nearly at capacity).  Any of you who have been on both cruise lines, am I wrong?

For not much more you can add Club Orange if sailing in non suite cabin. This allows you to eat in a smaller more intimate dining area. I will be sailing on NS in May and added club orange. There are other perks with it and many threads on it. Certain suite cabins get to eat in club orange not sure which ones. 
 

HAL is not known for lots of kids. I would compare them to Celebrity which I have sailed on many

times.   I did not like the E class ships on Celebrity unless I could have a real balcony. Others love them.  It is lucky we have so many choices. 
 

I plan on reporting back on my NS experience so I hope it goes well. 

[3rdGenCunarder]

6 hours ago, cruising sister said:

For not much more you can add Club Orange if sailing in non suite cabin. This allows you to eat in a smaller more intimate dining area. I will be sailing on NS in May and added club orange. There are other perks with it and many threads on it. Certain suite cabins get to eat in club orange not sure which ones. 
 

HAL is not known for lots of kids. I would compare them to Celebrity which I have sailed on many

times.   I did not like the E class ships on Celebrity unless I could have a real balcony. Others love them.  It is lucky we have so many choices. 
 

I plan on reporting back on my NS experience so I hope it goes well. 

 

Neptune and Pinnacle Suites eat in CO.