Whittier to Seward

[MrsTocko]

Let me start off with we LOVE cruising Alaska.  Having done it 4 times already, we are looking at the 5th, and trying to make sure we get some new ports.  We are looking in 2025 (NCL), and we found one we like in April 2025, ends in Seward.  Fantastic!  we will stay an extra day or 2 make our way to Anchorage and fly home.  We planned the hotel, figured out Seard adventure. Excited about the train to Anchorage with the glass dome and all.  Called my PCC that we want to change our planned and booked 2025 cruise to go back to Alaska. Further research shows that the train may not be running those routes in April (2023 schedule is end of May through Sept - Assuming that is a standard shedule)

They have to have the same cruise in June, when we would rather go, right?

Nope.  The ones in June end in Whittier.  So now we need to get to Seward first.  Or stay in Whittier. 

 

If we are getting off the ship in Whittier, what is the best way to get to Seward, and how long is it going to take?  We would rather not rent a car, while it may certainly be more cost effective, we would rather enjoy the scenary than argue about directions (we are both always right, and DH is impatient - whch led to our getting lost in London...but that is a different story). I was thinking the train to Girdwood, then transfer to Seward.  Or train to Girdwood and then tranfer to train to Anchorage.  Or is it smarter to take the ship transfer to Anchorage, do our thing there, and the next day do a Long Seward Day excursion roundtrip on the train?

 

Yes, the glass dome/covered train is extra, but we are willing to indulge ourselves for the experience.  Yes it is only offered for the Seward/Girdwood/Anchorage Route.

 

Im not even sure where to start to figure it out.  I know that Whittier isnt very populated, so wondering about available private transfer/transportation options.

 

TIA,

 

[GTJ]

You are correct in that passenger railroad operations at Whittier and Seward do not begin until mid-May, so absent a schedule adjustment that would not be an option for a cruise itinerary that arrives in April.Similarly, most bus operations also do not start up until mid-May. Any vessels arriving before May would almost certainly have, at a minimum, charter buses arranged by the cruise line itself, between Seward and Anchorage. But there is also a year-route bus service from Seward to Anchorage, Seward Bus Lines, that departs Seward, daily except Sunday (it does operate on Sundays from May 1 to September 15 each year), departing at 9:30 a.m., arriving at 12:00 noon.

 

At present Whittier is served only by the Carnival brands (i.e., Holland America Line and Princess Cruises) and the Alaska Marine Highway, and all the other lines terminate in Seward. However, a new NCL cruise terminal is under construction in Whittier, separate and apart from the Carnival cruise and AMH ferry terminals. Will it open on time, or will construction delays result in NCL vessels continuing to serve Seward? When I searched for NCL service in April 2025, it showed the vessel serving the new Whittier port, not Seward. I don't know what the situation will be two years from now, but I would suggest having both a Plan A and a Plan B.

 

As for transportation between Whittier and Seward, there is no direct passenger service operated between the two. Instead, everything goes to and from Anchorage. So you would need to either change at Anchorage, or possibly at Portage (where the routes from both Whittier and Seward converge) or at Girdwood. In some cases the buses and trains will stop at those intermediate points (either regularly or with special arrangements), though many do not, but the real challenge at Portage or Girdwood is making a timely connection without being stuck in an isolated location for an extended period of time.

 

Charter buses arranged by the cruise line would likely depart Whittier at 8:45 a.m., 9:45 a.m., and/or at 45 minutes past some other hour, as the tunnel opens every hour on the hour. You would then arrive in Portage at about 15 minutes past the hour (9:15, etc.), in Girdwood at about 30 minutes past the hour (9:30, etc.), at the Anchorage airport at about 30 minutes past the following hour (10:30 a.m., etc.), and in downtown Anchorage half an hour later (11:00 a.m., etc.). Other bus services from Whittier operate, in season, at 8:45 a.m. (Alaska Cruise Transportation), 9:45 p.m. (Park Connection), and 11:45 a.m. (Alaska Cruise Transportation). For all of these bus services, you would have to make arrangements with the driver to alight, on an unscheduled basis, at Portage or Girdwood). Trains from Whittier depart, in season, at 12:45 p.m., arriving in Portage at 1:15 p.m. There is a year-round regular bus service from Anchorage to Seward (Seward Bus Lines), operating daily except Sundays (it does operate on Sundays from May 1 to September 15 each year), departing Anchorage, near the airport, at 2:00 p.m., Girdwood at about 2:45 p.m., Portage at about 3:00 p.m., and arriving in Seward at 4:30 p.m. Park Connection has buses from Anchorage to Seward, in season, operating daily, departing downtown Anchorage at 7:00 a.m. and 3:00 p.m., Girdwood at about 8:00 a.m. and 4:00 p.m., Portage at about 8:15 a.m., and 4:15 p.m., and arriving in Seward at 10:10 a.m. and 6:10 p.m. Return trips from Seward to Anchorage are at 9:30 a.m. (Seward Bus Lines), 10:20 a.m. (Park Connection), and 6:20 p.m. (Park Connection). All of these schedules might change, however, given the opening of the new NCL cruise terminal in Whittier.

 

Given all of the above, I would see the best transportation plan, for Whittier to Seward in season, to be: train from Whittier, departing at 12:45 p.m., arriving Portage at 1:15 p.m.; and after having made reservations with Seward Bus Lines, bus from Portage train station, departing at 3:00 p.m., arriving Seward at 4:30 p.m.

[Glaciers]

Check with PJ’s taxi for transportation between Whittier and Seward.  https://www.pjstaxi.net

[wolfie11]

40 minutes ago, GTJ said:

At present Whittier is served only by the Carnival brands (i.e., Holland America Line and Princess Cruises) and the Alaska Marine Highway, and all the other lines terminate in Seward. However, a new NCL cruise terminal is under construction in Whittier, separate and apart from the Carnival cruise and AMH ferry terminals. Will it open on time, or will construction delays result in NCL vessels continuing to serve Seward? When I searched for NCL service in April 2025, it showed the vessel serving the new Whittier port, not Seward. I don't know what the situation will be two years from now, but I would suggest having both a Plan A and a Plan B.

 

GTJ - You are very knowledgeable about transportation and this is a little off topic, but your expertise would be appreciated.

 

Am I the only one that sees that there might be a problem with locating a dock that can hold two 1000+ feet cruise ships (~4000 pax each) plus the current dock which also takes a 4000 pax ship (so around 12,000 total on a busy day) in a town with a tunnel that's open 15 minutes of every hour to get them out and in every turnaround day?  If you figure two trains per ship (one direct to Denali, one to Anchorage) as well as the daily ARR train service in and out, you could move maybe 500 pax per train?  So that's 3000 out of the 12,000 pax.  Buses hold around 60 pax.  If 6,000 of the remaining pax go by bus, that would be 100 busses.  These numbers don't take into account the hundreds of locals that travel through the tunnel in their own vehicles with boats attached to fish in Whittier, especially on weekends.

 

Tunnel regulations require a specific distance between vehicles, so a car can enter approx. every five seconds.  Busses can enter after all the cars have gone and have to have a distance of around 30 seconds I think.  Commercial trucks have an interval of 45 seconds (there's a seafood processing plant in Whittier and commercial truck traffic arriving on the ferry). So if you had 30 cars and 2 trucks, that would be around five of the allotted fifteen minutes, which would leave time for 20 busses per hour. Traffic is stopped for trains and it is not unusual to skip a vehicle opening for a train, especially as the tunnel needs time to ventilate after a train goes through.

 

The afternoon traffic is even worse than in the morning because, in addition to the busses bringing passengers from the airport and the seven afternoon trains, all luggage is transported through the tunnel in trucks.  They also onload food and supplies for the return voyage.  

 

If you're interested in looking at this, I'd love to hear your opinion.  You seem to be the most knowledgeable on the board about these things.  You can find the tunnel information at  Whittier Tunnel, Transportation & Public Facilities, State of Alaska.  Thanks!

[MrsTocko]

This sounds utterly fascinating to potentially witness.

 

The only thing that I can think of with regard to the docking situation, is that there will be staggered arrivals.  so not all 3 ships on the same day.  maybe 1 or 2..that would certainly cut down on the total passengers at one time, but still alot of extra people in port at any one time.

[wolfie11]

4 hours ago, MrsTocko said:

If we are getting off the ship in Whittier, what is the best way to get to Seward, and how long is it going to take?  We would rather not rent a car, while it may certainly be more cost effective, we would rather enjoy the scenary than argue about directions (we are both always right, and DH is impatient - whch led to our getting lost in London...but that is a different story). I was thinking the train to Girdwood, then transfer to Seward.  Or train to Girdwood and then tranfer to train to Anchorage.  Or is it smarter to take the ship transfer to Anchorage, do our thing there, and the next day do a Long Seward Day excursion roundtrip on the train?

The easiest way to do it is to take the ship's transfer to the airport in Anchorage and rent a car.  Alaska is not London.  There is one road south out of Anchorage.  As long as you turn left at Tern Lake onto the Seward highway after you get over the pass, you'll be fine.  You are well before the tourist season begins.  There will be very little traffic once you get out of Anchorage and you can pull over anywhere and watch moose (mamas have their babies about that time), Dall sheep on the cliffs along Turnagain Arm, beluga whales at Beluga Point, bears eating dandelions along the road, and stunning scenery.  You really should have a car in Seward to be able to get the best experience.  You can drive to Exit Glacier a few miles out of town and hike in for a great view of the glacier (I don't think they let you go up to it anymore), stop at Seavey's to see the sled dogs and take a dog sled ride, go out to the airport and take a flightseeing tour over the glaciers, or head to the fish hatchery to see if any bears are hanging around.  

Edited April 27, 2023 by wolfie11

[MrsTocko]

sounds amazing...all of it.  I may talk him into the rental car...and we were on foot in London and the hotel "is right there".....so we were really just wandering for 2 hours,  the one time I got him to stop so i could try and figure out where we were before the cell phone died, he was too impatient..and instisted that we "go this way..."  well 45 minutes after that, we arrived.  Had he given me 2 minutes, we would have gone the other way, and been at the hotel in 5...yes, he freely admits he got us lost...in london...at night...

But we make an adventure of it no matter what.

 

I will have to chack on the one way rental car options.  I know that we really want to do that train.

[fishiecrackers]

The train to Seward really is an amazing experience. It is one of my top splurge activities I recommend to friends coming into town.

[GTJ]

Initially, I don't see a need for an additional cruise vessel dock. At present, Carnival serves Whittier with a single vessel every Saturday, every Sunday, and alternate Wednesdays. NCL serves Seward with a single vessel every Wednesday and alternate Mondays. And to be mostly complete, Royal Caribbean serves Seward with a single vessel every Thursday and every Friday. So the overlap is on alternate Wednesdays, which could be mitigated by moving one the Carnival vessels from alternate Wednesdays to alternate Mondays. And that scheduling would leave Tuesdays completely vacant for future expansion. Even if the present cruise vessel facilities in Whittier are owned by Carnival, the power of eminent domain could be exercised to put control in the hands of government, and sharing the facility thereafter.

 

So let's look at tunnel capacity. The railcars now being used seat about 70 passengers each; in years past the railroad used gallery cars acquired second-hand from Southern Pacific with a capacity of about 150 passengers. A 6-car train using cars similar to those now in service would handle about 420 passengers at most, but a 10-car train using gallery or similar bi-level commuter-type cars could handle about 1,500 passengers.

 

As for buses, 60 passengers is a bit generous. Figure on about 55 seats, of which, on average, 50 will be occupied. If there is 30-second spacing (I don't know the safety limitations here), then there a potential flow equivalent to 120 vehicles per hour, or 6,000 passengers per hour. For comparison's sake, the most intensively used bus lane in the United States, the exclusive bus lane (or "XBL") handles about 650 buses per hour, with an average of 38 passengers per bus. At present the tunnel is available for, at most, 25 percent of each hour, so these full hour flows would not be achieved if the tunnel continues being used for dual-direction traffic. Even with dual-direction traffic, the tunnel use might not continue being split 50-50 as now, but might be split, say, 75-25 in favor of the peak direction.

 

As for other traffic, such vehicles could be handled more efficiently by using car carriers pulled by locomotives, as was done by the Alaska Railroad prior to the paving of the tunnel, and as is done with the English Channel tunnel. Perhaps needed only during peak hours, and less convenient (and more expensive for motorists), it might be necessary if there is a capacity limitation.

 

For both train and bus transportation, if there were to be three vessels in port simultaneously, then the limitation might be vehicles rather than tunnel capacity. The Top 50 Motorcoach Fleets, as reported by Metro magazine (which I believe is the most recent survey) reports that Royal Hyway Tours (a subsidiary of Carnival) has a fleet of 308 motorcoaches, and Premier Alaska Tours (which provides services for other lines) has a fleet of 95 motorcoaches. This question goes back to the necessity (or not) of additional facilities . . . passengers need to spread out over the week, not all arriving and departing the same, for many reasons, including availability of buses and railcars.

 

I have not synthesized all of these thoughts. But there are legitimate concerns over capacity and logistics that should be considered if there is any expansion of port usage.

[GTJ]

27 minutes ago, MrsTocko said:

sounds amazing...all of it. I may talk him into the rental car...and we were on foot in London and the hotel "is right there".....so we were really just wandering for 2 hours,

Alaska is not London. Transportation in London is a question of route and time convenience, whereas in Alaska the primary transportation issue is whether it is at all possible to get someplace. Alaska does not have extensive transportation, and where transportation exists it is typically not convenient. The cruise lines take advantage of this shortcoming by offering their own tours, knowing the difficulty, or impossibility, of their clients to make such arrangements independently. As a result many people resort to driving themselves, but that requires licensure and the ability to rent a vehicle, things that not every has the ability or desire to do.

[MrsTocko]

19 hours ago, GTJ said:

Alaska is not London. Transportation in London is a question of route and time convenience, whereas in Alaska the primary transportation issue is whether it is at all possible to get someplace. Alaska does not have extensive transportation, and where transportation exists it is typically not convenient. The cruise lines take advantage of this shortcoming by offering their own tours, knowing the difficulty, or impossibility, of their clients to make such arrangements independently. As a result many people resort to driving themselves, but that requires licensure and the ability to rent a vehicle, things that not every has the ability or desire to do.

@GTJ  Thank you for such thorough answers.  We try to support local econpmies when we can, where we can.  DH is usually very adament about only book the cruise excursions, for the benefit of if it is late getting back, we arent going to run the risk of being stranded. When we travel (especially internationally) we dont drive.  We dont want to be the Clark Griswald of whatever country we are in (and we would be).  Im more of a logistics thinker, and so when planning vacations (to anywhere), I figure in HOW we are getting from point a to point b, for everywhere that we KNOW we want to go.  from the airport to the hotel to the ship and back, in this scanario, from the airport to whittier or seward (or the reverse).  What is around the hotel that we can do, or where we can go to eat. (yes we are food motivated). What is it going to cost, best case scenario of time table.  all of it.  We ALWAYS go at least 1 day early before a cruise. He is early everywhere.  if for example our check in time is 9am (which that is typically the first one available and the one we choose), then we are there at the port waiting no later than 8:15.  If my research of the terminals and how they flow suggests we be there earlier..fine with us.  We are up anyway twiddling out thumbs watching and waiting for the hands on the clock to move.  At least at the terminal we have people watching.  We like watching the mechanics and the "dance" so to speak of everything that is going on.  It is all a giant puzzle that I like trying to figure out.  So that by the time it is actually happening, I have my plan, (and a back up plan or 2), but I otherwise dont have to figure anything out except what I am going to eat and wear.  I even look at is there someplace near by that I can get my coffee in the morning (DH prefers I dont go without it). 

I will be sure to keep an eye on the NCL in Whittier dock/terminal schedule, and that public facilities link that was posted.

I just really need to figure out how to get us on that train...

[Northern Aurora]

@MrsTocko When you state "I just really need to figure out how to get us on that train" I hope you are not considering the transfer between train and bus as mentioned in post #2.  While it might technically be possible don't even consider an attempt.  The Portage "station" is not a train station as generally understood.  It is about double in size of my garden shed.  I wonder if it is even manned or heated.  You don not want to be stuck there.  As mentioned by "wolfie" just take the NCL train transfer to the Anchorage airport to pick up your rental car.

 

If you are driving to Seward have you considered taking additional time and driving to Homer?  Homer is delightful and is my favorite SE coastal community accessible by road.  

 

 

[MrsTocko]

42 minutes ago, Northern Aurora said:

@MrsTocko When you state "I just really need to figure out how to get us on that train" I hope you are not considering the transfer between train and bus as mentioned in post #2.  While it might technically be possible don't even consider an attempt.  The Portage "station" is not a train station as generally understood.  It is about double in size of my garden shed.  I wonder if it is even manned or heated.  You don not want to be stuck there.  As mentioned by "wolfie" just take the NCL train transfer to the Anchorage airport to pick up your rental car.

 

If you are driving to Seward have you considered taking additional time and driving to Homer?  Homer is delightful and is my favorite SE coastal community accessible by road.  

 

 

@Northern Aurora

I will definately be looking at all of it.  The ONLY issue I have with renting a car, is that we want to do the train.  So I need to ensure I can do a one way rental.  I did look up the taxi link, and I like that idea.  (Pjstaxi I think it was), less of a taxi (in the traditional sense) and more of a private transport.  as we are still over 2 years away, I will have some time to figure it out. I will also be keeping on eye on the progression of the new construction at the Whittier port.  I am fully mentally prepared that if the new NCL facilities are not complete, then we may dock in Seward, making this whole question unnecessary...

We will be limited on time (to an extent), so if we dont get to Homer in 2025, we will the next for sure.  I dont see this as the last time we will go.  I feel the need to visit Alaska as often as I need to cruise.

[Northern Aurora]

Given the price of one way car rentals between Anchorage and Seward another possibility would be to do the train both to Seward and then a few days later take it back to Anchorage.  

 

In addition to PJs Taxi also consider contacting Salmon Berry Travel and Tours out of Anchorage.  In the past they have been able to create custom tour experiences.

[GTJ]

2 hours ago, Northern Aurora said:

The Portage "station" is not a train station as generally understood. It is about double in size of my garden shed. I wonder if it is even manned or heated. You don not want to be stuck there.

The Portage station does have a station building, small as it may be, and unattended by any railroad employees. Not at all unusual . . . I routinely board and alight trains at unstaffed stations (or stations that might be staffed only part-time), and there is no issue or concern in doing that. The substantial problem is the boredom in being stuck in an area with nothing to do but wait, and for an extended period of time. And that would be my primary concern with trying to make a connection at Portage. I might consider asking the bus driver to let me off at the entrance to the Alaska Wildlife Conservation Center, and spend most of the waiting time there (allow 30 minutes to walk from the Center to the Portage station). Otherwise, it is a boring wait with nothing to do. You don't want to be stuck there.

 

(A side note: The term "station" is oftentimes used synonymously with the term "station building," and understandably so because most railroad passenger boardings and alightings occur at or near station buildings. But strictly speaking, a "station" is simply a named place along a rail, air, or bus line. Most of the stations of the Alaska Railroad have no station building.)

[GTJ]

2 hours ago, MrsTocko said:

The ONLY issue I have with renting a car, is that we want to do the train.

Do be careful when you make reference to "the" train. There are many trains in Alaska, each of which has distinct characteristics. In brief, these are the passenger trains that operate south of Anchorage.

 

Coastal Classic. Anchorage (downtown station) - Girdwood - Seward, and return. Train operates once daily in each direction (morning from Anchorage to Seward, afternoon from Seward to Anchorage). Utilizes Alaska Railroad conventional and Ultra Dome (bi-level) cars.

 

Glacier Discover. Anchorage (downtown station) - Girdwood - Portage - Whittier - Portage - Spencer - Grandview, and return. Train operates once daily in each direction (morning from Anchorage to Grandview, afternoon from Grandview to Anchorage). Utilizes Alaska Railroad conventional and bi-level DMU cars.

 

Denali Express. Denali - Whittier, and return. Tickets made available by Carnival brands (Princess Cruises and Holland America Line) for its passengers only. Train operates Saturdays, Sundays, and alternate Wednesdays (morning from Whittier to Denali, afternoon from Denali to Whittier). Utilizes Tour Alaska (corporate subsidiary of Carnival) Ultra Dome (bi-level) cars.

 

Charter. Also known as the Grandview train or the Cruise train. Train operates on routes designated by cruise lines, with tickets made available by the cruise lines for their passengers only (morning from Seward or Whittier to northern termini, afternoons from northern termini to Seward or Whittier). Utilizes Alaska Railroad Panorama Dome (single level) cars. Present routes, 2023, are as follows. These routes may change in the future, especially once the new terminal opens in Whittier.

• Alternate Mondays. Chartered by NCL (Norweigan Cruise Line). Anchorage Airport - Seward, and return.
• Thursdays and Fridays. Chartered by RCCL (Royal Caribbean International, Celebrity Cruises, Silversea Cruises). Anchorage Airport - Seward, and return.
• Saturdays and alternate Wednesdays. Chartered by Carnival (Princess Cruises). Also known as McKinley Express. McKinley (station near Talkeetna) - Whittier, and return.
• Sundays. Chartered by Carnival (Holland America Line). Anchorage (downtown station) - Whittier, and return.

Alaska Railroad Map and Service 3.pdf

Edited April 29, 2023 by GTJ

[Coral]

I would take the shuttle from Whittier to Anchorage, spend the night and then take the train to Seward.