When are the capacity levels on Iona and Arvia likely to be the lowest.

[Guest ccpm]

2 hours ago, cruising.mark.uk said:

Dear Admin - can you start a separate new thread about the App and queuing, so that every existing thread doesn't deteriorate into discussions of those two (linked) subjects?  This was a useful and informative thread in its own right, but has now dived down the App / queuing rabbit hole and I suspect will not return unless you force it!  Thanks

Have to agree. 

[Megabear2]

5 hours ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

So on Arvia right now you can't book meals in dining rooms because of problems with the app?

Yes, has been like it since day 2 when it collapsed and lost a lot of people's bookings. For some (me for instance) it came back okay for others not so. That's why I'm talking about queues.  

 

I agree a thread on apps and queues is needed.  

Edited May 25, 2023 by Megabear2

[DS_Dean]

The app on Arvia is all over the place. It has been ok last few nights but at the start of the cruise it was a disaster. You would join a queue for instance Glass House. Wait over an hour because you are in the queue, grow impatient, go down to the Glass House and be admitted straight away because it turns out app had stopped working that night.

 

But there is no communication...

[CarlaMarie]

3 hours ago, DS_Dean said:

The app on Arvia is all over the place. It has been ok last few nights but at the start of the cruise it was a disaster. You would join a queue for instance Glass House. Wait over an hour because you are in the queue, grow impatient, go down to the Glass House and be admitted straight away because it turns out app had stopped working that night.

 

But there is no communication...

 

Same on Britannia. The app had glitches, meaning it was throwing people out of the virtual queues and also not notifying them that their tables were ready (their tables were then released). The staff at the Glass House said that they were aware of the issues, yet the passengers were not told.

[Interestedcruisefan]

How many days didn't the app work this holiday on Arvia?

 

 

Edited May 26, 2023 by Interestedcruisefan

[cruiseluvva]

 I must say, not having cruised with P&O for years, and currently considering an Arvia cruise, it sounds absolutely horrendous! I think I’ll look elsewhere!

[Interestedcruisefan]

I've cruised on RCL and Carnival several times and P and O on Britannia, Azura, Iona and Arvia.

 

I've had multiple holidays at 3, 4 and 5 star hotels all over the  world. All inclusives, self catering, multiple centre parcs, the best Disney official Hotels in Paris and Orlando. The best Universal Hotels in Orlando. 

 

I've eaten at multiple Michelin star restaurants from one star to three star. 

 

I've seen the good and bad all over the world. 

 

Arvia and Iona are the best ships I've sailed on. And offer really  great holidays. Simple as that. It's almost inevitable they would be as they are the most modern and upto date in the P and O fleet. No doubt the next ship they launch will be even better. Ships don't go backwards. The holidays provided (if you make the most of them) are the best value holidays you can book anywhere in the world right now.

 

Trust me on that. 

 

Be very very wary of making cruising decisions based on limited bad experiences and bad days others have faced. You will be potentially missing out on so many good things if you do.

 

There was absolutely nothing remotely horrendous about our 2 week cruise on Arvia to the Caribbean In February. In  fact we had a fabulous holiday 

 

And we are on Iona now (Arvias sister ship) having a fabulous 7 night holiday In the Norwegian Fjords

 

We will be booking a repeat Arvia Caribbean 2 week holiday for February 2024 and will not hesitate to sail on Iona again

 

On Arvia this week - I've read about a 2 hour queue in Palma for shuttles. That's not good and needs sorting. That's a logistics problem for P and O full stop to manage and nothing to do with the Arvia ship itself

 

I've read about the app being "all over the place" on Arvia. That appears to actually be it failed to work for a period of time at the start of the cruise? Waiting to find out for how long from those on board? I've sailed having to use the P and O app on Britannia, Arvia and Iona now. It's never failed once for me in 3 holidays. I'm not disputing its failed for a period of time on Arvia this week. But let's find out for how long?

 

And exactly how badly has that changed the holiday experience for everybody on board throughout their cruise?

 

And theres been bad weather and therefore sea days have led to crowded places indoors and obviously people don't enjoy that. But as we all know bad weather can spoil enjoyment of any holiday anywhere in the world. That's life on holidays. It would spoil holidays on any cruise ship anywhere in the world at any price including super yachts. Let's be honest.

 

And guess what - Motorway delays can cause people on Super Yachts to be late getting on their Super Yachts as well? Or perhaps their helicopter flights to the yacht get cancelled by bad weather. 

 

Stuff goes wrong on holidays for everybody ? It's life in general

 

Am I wrong?

 

So on here that we now have a poster worryingly suggesting that Arvia provides a "horrendous" holiday for people? And no longer wanting to travel on her?

 

Not the first person to say this this week either. Someone saying they will have now cancel a holiday booked on her?

 

What a real shame!

 

Horrendous - is simply not true. And so misleading to people who might be scared off travelling on what truly are state of the art ships

 

Arvia and Iona offer superb facilities, superb staff, superb entertainment and superb food and drink options whilst touring the world. And they offer these at a better value than pretty much any holiday of any type you can book right now. (If value for money appeals to you)

 

What they definitely aren't is "horrendous"

 

Things don't always go as you would like every day in life in general and on holidays. That's life in general

 

I'm reading that IT is down at Heathrow for BA and has  been for days and many flights being cancelled. That doesn't make BA horrendous. It's just life in general doesn't always go to plan every day.

 

Far far more good things happen on Arvia and Iona than bad things Every day. Anyone who actually believes they are "horrendous" places for holidays are in danger of losing out IMO

 

But there will be literally millions of people very happy to take your place on these ships in the next decade having fantastic holidays the vast majority of their time on board

 

So your loss will be their gain if you really believe Arvia provides "horrendous" holidays

 

Far far more great things happen on Arvia every day than bad things

 

Trust me guys 

 

That's why 5,000 plus passengers choose to spend their holidays on Arvia every week

 

(Have others had bad experiences on Arvia and Iona at times. Without a shadow of doubt they have. I'm not questioning that at all. Are Arvia and Iona horrendous places to enjoy holidays on. Absolutely not. Also without a a shadow of doubt)

 

Please put other people's bad experiences and bad days into perspective when you read about them. Or you will miss some great opportunities for some great holidays.

 

In my very honest opinion

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 26, 2023 by Interestedcruisefan

[Megabear2]

12 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

Far far more good things happen on Arvia and Iona than bad things Every day. Anyone who actually believes they are "horrendous" places for holidays are in danger of losing out IMO

As one of those on-board Arvia who has had a lot of personal issues I totally agree with this.  It has not been a horrendous holiday apart from my issues with the cabin and once rectified this has been fine.  Yes, there have been major outages on the app from day 2 and here we are day 13 still with some issues but thankfully not major.  The app problems are now minor for those who have persevered with trying to use it.  We still have the knock on of it having lost several thousand reservations and bookings which could not be recovered and this voyage and I emphasise THIS NOT ALL voyages has been difficult as a result.

 

My experience in not atypical and I most certainly would not expect it to be one repeated by any other people taking an Arvia holiday.  

 

Arvia is a nice ship, very modern (maybe slightly too modern relying on technology which is sometimes suspect) and I'm certain anyone can have a great holiday on here as long as they've done their homework on bookings and making a daily itinerary.

 

The entertainment on-board has been some of the best I've ever experienced anywhere, you cannot fault anything.

 

This has been quite an experience for me and I wouldn't fail to say the ship won't let you down if you pick a cabin suited to you, caveat on that being if you take a saver fare don't expect to be able to.change cabins because they just won't have the capacity to do it.

 

We are 5,346 on-board at present, next sailing has over 1,000.children on-board.  I would suggest bearing that sort of thing in mind.

 

P&O are on to a winner with this ship for families if they sort out the unreliability of the app and technology associated with it.  

 

Although it's not a ship for me personally I urge anyone to try it and not be dissuaded by reviews and reports.  I most certainly had no intention of suggesting people should not book.or cancel their holidays based on my one off experience.  It's a mistake to read these reviews and think you'll have the exact same experience, you won't.  I booked my cruise based enormously on ICF's very positive and in depth review of Arvia, as you can see from that we're poles apart on our opinion of the app etc.but my personal cabin issues aside we are very much on the same page about the ship and it's facilities.

 

[GOQ]

On the negative:

 

The venues/facilities on Iona/Arvia are undersized for the amount of passengers. If you need to embark/disembark 5200+ passengers via two gangways you are always going to get delays/congestion.

On one occasion it took me over an hour to disembark Iona.

 

On my last Arvia cruise the headliners show was spread across 2 nights, that’s 6 shows to accommodate the demand. Arvia has experienced MDR queuing problems, it seems, because they have removed the 2 smaller MDRs. They have also removed one of the 4 cinema rooms.

 

The cruise experience on the same ship will vary between cruises, so you can’t really take one cruise report as typical. If there is a problem on Iona/Arvia, because of the size, it will probably escalate more rapidly than the smaller ships.

 

During a cruise on Arcadia there was problem with the shuttles at Tromso, I went to disembark and the queue was up the stairs over 2 decks. So I went away and had a snooze, I came back an hour later and the queue had virtually disappeared. A crew member spotted me on a walking stick and put me in a minibus with the wheelchairs. So my opinion went from this is horrible to this is great in an hour.

Get a problem with the shuttles on Arvia and you seem to get the problems that Megabear2 has experienced.

 

On the positive:

 

Iona/Arvia are new squeaky clean modern ships, balconies in particular are much cheaper than balconies on the smaller ships. And I think the cabins and bathrooms are really nice and there is a greater choice of activities, places to eat etc. They are good value.

 

On Britannia the app stopped working several times but I didn’t have any problems with the app on Arvia, the only thing which would happen would be that I could easily loose the wifi connection and miss the “Table Ready” notification. So I regularly checked my connection.

 

All the ships have some sort of problem occur during a cruise its just luck.

 

For me:

 

I personally don’t like crowds, but unless I pay 4 times P&O prices it is something I will have to deal with. My strategy on all ships these days is to work out where and at what times everybody else is going and go somewhere else.

 

I would cruise on Iona/Arvia again if the itinerary/price was attractive and if I could believe the ship wouldn’t be at full capacity. Hence my original question, when might be the most likely dates/ itineraries where these ships are at their lowest capacity.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DS_Dean]

I'm on mobile phone so cannot really expand on my comment about the app but will do so when I get home in more detail with better explanation 🙂

[Interestedcruisefan]

2 hours ago, Megabear2 said:

As one of those on-board Arvia who has had a lot of personal issues I totally agree with this.  It has not been a horrendous holiday apart from my issues with the cabin and once rectified this has been fine.  Yes, there have been major outages on the app from day 2 and here we are day 13 still with some issues but thankfully not major.  The app problems are now minor for those who have persevered with trying to use it.  We still have the knock on of it having lost several thousand reservations and bookings which could not be recovered and this voyage and I emphasise THIS NOT ALL voyages has been difficult as a result.

 

My experience in not atypical and I most certainly would not expect it to be one repeated by any other people taking an Arvia holiday.  

 

Arvia is a nice ship, very modern (maybe slightly too modern relying on technology which is sometimes suspect) and I'm certain anyone can have a great holiday on here as long as they've done their homework on bookings and making a daily itinerary.

 

The entertainment on-board has been some of the best I've ever experienced anywhere, you cannot fault anything.

 

This has been quite an experience for me and I wouldn't fail to say the ship won't let you down if you pick a cabin suited to you, caveat on that being if you take a saver fare don't expect to be able to.change cabins because they just won't have the capacity to do it.

 

We are 5,346 on-board at present, next sailing has over 1,000.children on-board.  I would suggest bearing that sort of thing in mind.

 

P&O are on to a winner with this ship for families if they sort out the unreliability of the app and technology associated with it.  

 

Although it's not a ship for me personally I urge anyone to try it and not be dissuaded by reviews and reports.  I most certainly had no intention of suggesting people should not book.or cancel their holidays based on my one off experience.  It's a mistake to read these reviews and think you'll have the exact same experience, you won't.  I booked my cruise based enormously on ICF's very positive and in depth review of Arvia, as you can see from that we're poles apart on our opinion of the app etc.but my personal cabin issues aside we are very much on the same page about the ship and it's facilities.

 

Very well said Megabear

 

I've seen plenty of positive stuff about Arvia from you but some have focussed on the bad stuff

 

I agree entirely that your description of shuttle problems in Palma was unacceptable and needs big improvement and needs complaints to make that happen

 

I sympathise with those who don't get the bookings they want at the restaurants they want

 

Look at me with my experience of booking stuff. I failed to book limelight in time. Was too busy leading upto the hols to secure that.

 

I also missed out on Norwegian taster in epicurean. Neither of which has spoilt my holiday experience. Had I got those bookings they would have just added to it. 

 

I also sympathise with you having to change a noisy room. I've experienced that myself in Arvia. And I've also experienced staff missing agreed meeting times whilst doing so. So I know that happens. Room for improvement there for sure. Yet we still can't wait to go back and repeat our Caribbean Holiday on Arvia. 

 

Personally as adults without kids travelling with us now we will avoid school holidays. I would advise others to do the same. Why not it's cheaper and quieter.

 

Having said that watching some young kids dancing at the front of the theatre last night was great to see. Kids on board aren't all bad news.

 

And no doubt if we have grand kids we will travel again on those ships in the school holidays with our grand kids having an amazing time with us hopefully 

 

I knew from reading your posts anyone calling Arvia horrendous was missing all the good stuff

 

And in danger of missing a great cruise ship. Iona is just as good.

 

And now we enjoy MDR again. Maybe Iona even better for us? As more options for it?

 

Who would have thought that?

[Megabear2]

Strange one just this morning though. Decided to skip breakfast and go to 10.00 lecture with view to brunch in the Diner after.  Lecture finished 10.30 so added myself to the queue, only one in it.  Came down to sit in Anderson's next door to wait.  Still no call, I'm the only one in the queue at 11.45.  Just went along to check app is working okay. Yes I've been told but we've got a lot of pagers out today so you won't be called until after noon.  As I want to go to the Neil Lockwood meet and greet at 12.30 I asked to be taken out of the queue.   Not sure if it's because I'm alone or what but I am slightly peeved.

[Interestedcruisefan]

6 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

Strange one just this morning though. Decided to skip breakfast and go to 10.00 lecture with view to brunch in the Diner after.  Lecture finished 10.30 so added myself to the queue, only one in it.  Came down to sit in Anderson's next door to wait.  Still no call, I'm the only one in the queue at 11.45.  Just went along to check app is working okay. Yes I've been told but we've got a lot of pagers out today so you won't be called until after noon.  As I want to go to the Neil Lockwood meet and greet at 12.30 I asked to be taken out of the queue.   Not sure if it's because I'm alone or what but I am slightly peeved.

 

Very weird and very annoying

 

Their loss Megabear!!!

[Megabear2]

39 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

so sympathise with you having to change a noisy room. I've experienced that myself in Arvia. And I've also experienced staff missing agreed meeting times whilst doing so. So I know that happens. Room for improvement there for sure

I wondered why you got a different room on Arvia, now it becomes clear.  Where were you moved from, I know you were given a balcony, how long did they take to deal with it?  I offered to pay whatever it cost to get out of my room any upgrade accepted but they refused point blank.

 

I now know of at least 3 empty cabins, two inside and one balcony that have been empty all cruise. These are people who didn't travel due to personal problems but their travelling companions did and have confirmed the rooms are still empty.

 

I actually believe if I hadn't taken the suggestion made by other CC members to write to my contact at executive office, I'd  still be in my original cabin.

Edited May 26, 2023 by Megabear2

[GOQ]

I put out some cooked rice out on my bird table. I have just been watching a couple of blackbirds with their 3 kids stealing all the rice as fast as possible and scaring all the sparrows and little birds away.

I thought to myself, this is just like a cruise ship buffet and I am like one of the little birds. I get knocked over and my table stolen.

 

Britannia seems like a good balance to me, it seems to be half way between the smaller older ships and the 2 new larger ships.

 

I think I have made a decision, and this applies only to my own situation/opinion of course. I will forget about cruising on Arvia, take a Caribbean cruise every other year on Britannia and alternate with another cruise line for the Caribbean or Asia, or another idea on my bucket list, take a segment of a world cruise with P&O.

[Interestedcruisefan]

3 hours ago, Megabear2 said:

I wondered why you got a different room on Arvia, now it becomes clear.  Where were you moved from, I know you were given a balcony, how long did they take to deal with it?  I offered to pay whatever it cost to get out of my room any upgrade accepted but they refused point blank.

 

I now know of at least 3 empty cabins, two inside and one balcony that have been empty all cruise. These are people who didn't travel due to personal problems but their travelling companions did and have confirmed the rooms are still empty.

 

I actually believe if I hadn't taken the suggestion made by other CC members to write to my contact at executive office, I'd  still be in my original cabin.

After first night we complained about the scraping of equipment either above of behind our room. We couldn't quite tell. At 2am and 4am

 

Was told to phone someone at an agreed time but they weren't available when I rang so had to ring another time (this was the deck manager I think). They said it might be first night luggage being moved

 

After second night  no improvement and was told someone would come and see us at an agreed time but they cancelled and came later (deck manager)

 

Thats  when I got told they would ask staff to be quieter moving things. And clearly wasn't luggage. And I said well it's upto you now. By now we had recorded the noises to play him

 

I said you clearly know there's a problem involving your staff doing something or you wouldn't ask them to be quieter  so if you allow  it to happen again we will have to move as we can't spend 2 weeks being woken up twice a night. And it will be your fault for allowing it to happen again

 

He said yes if it happens again we will move you

 

It happened again. 

 

Next morning  without me even knowing (I think I was in the gym) my wife had packed the cases and gone to reception and told a lady there we had been promised to be moved that morning

 

Next minute my wife's ringing from outside a balcony room for us to approve the new cabin

 

She said next to her at Guest services another lady was offered to be moved to a conservatory suite and accepted and couldn't grab the new key quick enough!! 

 

She didn't even want to check it out first. Lol

 

We kept both for a night so we didn't commit in case it was even worse in new cabin. There was workmen outside new cabin clearly fixing something

 

That's how it happened for us

 

 

(All of the above a minor blip we took in our stride and although we were happy to be given a balcony I never used it and my wife did once or twice at most)

 

 

Edited May 26, 2023 by Interestedcruisefan

[Megabear2]

17 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

After first night we complained about the scraping of equipment either above of behind our room. We couldn't quite tell. At 2am and 4am

 

Was told to phone someone at an agreed time but they weren't available when I rang so had to ring another time (this was the deck manager I think). They said it might be first night luggage being moved

 

After second night  no improvement and was told someone would come and see us at an agreed time but they cancelled and came later (deck manager)

 

Thats  when I got told they would ask staff to be quieter moving things. And clearly wasn't luggage. And I said well it's upto you now. By now we had recorded the noises to play him

 

I said you clearly know there's a problem involving your staff doing something or you wouldn't ask them to be quieter  so if you allow  it to happen again we will have to move as we can't spend 2 weeks being woken up twice a night. And it will be your fault for allowing it to happen again

 

He said yes if it happens again we will move you

 

It happened again. 

 

Next morning  without me even knowing (I think I was in the gym) my wife had packed the cases and gone to reception and told a lady there we had been promised to be moved that morning

 

Next minute my wife's ringing from outside a balcony room for us to approve the new cabin

 

She said next to her at Guest services another lady was offered to be moved to a conservatory suite and accepted and couldn't grab the new key quick enough!! 

 

She didn't even want to check it out first. Lol

 

We kept both for a night so we didn't commit in case it was even worse in new cabin. There was workmen outside new cabin clearly fixing something

 

That's how it happened for us

 

 

(All of the above a minor blip we took in our stride and although we were happy to be given a balcony I never used it and my wife did once or twice at most)

 

 

Thanks for explaining.  I've spoken to someone on here who said they have continual banging behind their bedhead every night at 4.00am. Sounds like the same sort of thing. No cabin change for them I'm afraid just having to put up with it.

 

The appointments should at least be kept or notified that arent going to make it.  Your a better man than I to call it a blip, I'd have freaked out!!

[Interestedcruisefan]

49 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

Thanks for explaining.  I've spoken to someone on here who said they have continual banging behind their bedhead every night at 4.00am. Sounds like the same sort of thing. No cabin change for them I'm afraid just having to put up with it.

 

The appointments should at least be kept or notified that arent going to make it.  Your a better man than I to call it a blip, I'd have freaked out!!

 

My wife was more annoyed than me although it woke us both up 

 

Ours was equipment being moved. Like a scraping on the floor 

 

We think it was maybe cleaning  of the gym floor or something like that as we were near there 

 

2am and 4am almost like clockwork. I think something being moved in and out at those times or else something being moved then being moved back at those times

 

Maybe all the exercise bikes being moved across the gym floor for it to be cleaned before being moved back?

 

We backed onto the gym I think

 

Cannot possibly have just been our cabin impacted. It was loud  and at awful times of night

Edited May 26, 2023 by Interestedcruisefan

[Interestedcruisefan]

My criticism of P and O in my case above is that must be a known ongoing problem and the deck master is used to it.  And yet I imagine guests are put in that cabin every cruise and have to complain a few times like us to be moved

 

Ie they don't end the problem. They just continue with it.

 

They didn't change the way things operate to stop the noise. As I write this a trolley just passed me in the buffet and the sound was remarkably similar

[Megabear2]

Well, I've just witnessed a scene down in reception! No queue (!!!!). However i needed some disembarkation labels as mine have the old abin number and i also have an extra bag with all my ashore olive  oil purchases.  Couldn't hear a word down there as some irate elderly lady screamed down the telephone she was 87 years old and everyone on here has been giving her the run around on here for two weeks and now they are gong to make her miss her train. Good heavens above, I've no idea who was on the other end but i should think they could hear her in Southampton the way she was screaming!

Edited May 26, 2023 by Megabear2

[Megabear2]

10 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

 

My wife was more annoyed than me although it woke us both up 

 

Ours was equipment being moved. Like a scraping on the floor 

 

We think it was maybe cleaning  of the gym floor or something like that as we were near there 

 

2am and 4am almost like clockwork. I think something being moved in and out at those times or else something being moved then being moved back at those times

 

Maybe all the exercise bikes being moved across the gym floor for it to be cleaned before being moved back?

 

We backed onto the gym I think

 

Cannot possibly have just been our cabin impacted. It was loud  and at awful times of night

One of the 100 then.

[Ardennais]

2 hours ago, GOQ said:

I put out some cooked rice out on my bird table. I have just been watching a couple of blackbirds with their 3 kids stealing all the rice as fast as possible and scaring all the sparrows and little birds away.

I thought to myself, this is just like a cruise ship buffet and I am like one of the little birds. I get knocked over and my table stolen.

 

Britannia seems like a good balance to me, it seems to be half way between the smaller older ships and the 2 new larger ships.

 

 

I wonder if that is the case really after our recent Britannia cruise. It hasn’t got the wow factor and choices of the larger ships, nor the intimacy of the smaller older ships. Falls between two stools! 

[Megabear2]

1 minute ago, Ardennais said:

I wonder if that is the case really after our recent Britannia cruise. It hasn’t got the wow factor and choices of the larger ships, nor the intimacy of the smaller older ships. Falls between two stools! 

We pays our money and makes our choices I suppose.  I like Britannia she has a nice feel, offers me decent sized swimming pools I can actually use and enough extras like Limelight Club, Epicurean and Sindhu to keep me happy.  She also has the Crystal Room if you want to dance so a sort of half way house.

 

I've decided if I want the wow factor the Edge class vessels do it for me but my first love is and probably always will be Queen Mary 2 no matter her age.

[smokey01]

16 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

We pays our money and makes our choices I suppose.  I like Britannia she has a nice feel, offers me decent sized swimming pools I can actually use and enough extras like Limelight Club, Epicurean and Sindhu to keep me happy.  She also has the Crystal Room if you want to dance so a sort of half way house.

 

I've decided if I want the wow factor the Edge class vessels do it for me but my first love is and probably always will be Queen Mary 2 no matter her age.

How is the MDR on Britannia? I presume still a mixture of traditional and any time? I presume anytime is via the app?

 

[Megabear2]

2 minutes ago, smokey01 said:

How is the MDR on Britannia? I presume still a mixture of traditional and any time? I presume anytime is via the app?

 

Two freedom, one traditional.  The app is in play but we reserved same table same waiters every night in freedom as the app wouldn't load on our phone. We eat early between 6.00pm and 6.30pm.  If we didn't appear within 10 minutes or so we might lose that particular window table but they put us in the same area with same group of waiters.  We had absolutely no problems with any dining or entertainment. I'm aware there was a mess on Christmas Day when they turned the whole three restaurants over to two sittings for dinner.  We didn't get involved as we ate in Epicurean which is a lovely way to spend Christmas Day.