Fur coat and no knickers

[mrsgoggins]

4 hours ago, Harry Peterson said:

So very true - everything they get their hands on is cheapened and ruined.  At least we still have alternatives to brands like Hershey's, notorious for tasting of vomit!

Oh Harry - at first it was the Lindors we disagreed on and now Hershey’s 😂😂.  Only this afternoon I enjoyed a small Hershey’s with whole almonds!  I do agree with you about the regular bars though, so we can go back to our usual harmonious ‘relationship’ 😉

[Harry Peterson]

24 minutes ago, mrsgoggins said:

Oh Harry - at first it was the Lindors we disagreed on and now Hershey’s 😂😂.  Only this afternoon I enjoyed a small Hershey’s with whole almonds!  I do agree with you about the regular bars though, so we can go back to our usual harmonious ‘relationship’ 😉

I'm so sorry, Mrs Goggins. Let's not fall out over chocolate. How do you feel about Cadbury's? It really shouldn't taste good, but sadly it still does. Engrained  since childhood  - exactly as planned by Cadbury.  I spent 3 years in Birmingham in the late 60s, just a short distance from Bournville - never forgotten that distinctive smell. And Aztec bars.

[scooby1]

Cruising has become way cheaper, we managed to book a 14 days cruise cheaper than it was to get a good half board hotel in the Balearics, that never used to be the case. 
 

Unfortunately that is meaning that some who previously couldn’t afford to cruise now can and standards are dropping, both in the service they can offer and the standards of the guests. 
 

UK based cruises for us have seen some of the worst behaviours on any cruise from any location post pandemic. We have one cruise booked for next year and will give it a break for a while or look at other brands that we have been on before and see if the situation improves or not. Holidays should be fun and joyous occasions and too many people set out to detract from that and the design of some of the ships doesn’t help either in a pile it high sell it cheap and upsell approach. 

[Interestedcruisefan]

2 hours ago, Andy24v said:

Yes to all of the above, however the smaller ships have roughly the same number of sun decks (and other facilities for that matter) but only two or three decks of cabins, with around 1800 passengers. 

The big ships have 5 or 6 decks of cabins with 4x the number of passengers. 

 

So if you can't get a primary spot, at least you'll get a sunbed somewhere, unlike on our trip on Arvia in May this year.

So you are stating there were no sunbeds available anywhere on Arvia last May?

 

 

[TigerB]

3 hours ago, Megabear2 said:

Now this is really a big one!

 

Or just a regular size Toblerone being carried by a wee fella. 

[yorkshirephil]

7 hours ago, TigerB said:

 

Or just a regular size Toblerone being carried by a wee fella. 

He looks more Grumpy than Happy. Whereas I would be chuffed to bits with a bar of chocolate that big.

[Megabear2]

8 hours ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

So you are stating there were no sunbeds available anywhere on Arvia last May?

 

 

Err ... I think that's Andy said! 

 

"Sunbeds" and Arvia is something of an anachronism.  A very large number of the seats/beds whatever you want to call them are actually not beds, they're an odd design of reclining chairs - a good 50% from my observations.  Traditional real "sunbeds" are therefore in pretty short supply particularly around the small infinity pools, in fairness there are more in the front section around in the adults only areas.  I've mentioned this before.  Most of the seating on the promenade deck is this "chair" hybrid.

 

I struggled to get a seat anywhere other than on one of these hybrids on the few dry seadays on my May cruise.  On port days returning around 3.00pm I could get a sunbed at the front near the adult only pool but certainly nowhere actually around it, and finding more than one available would be a challenge, luckily being alone I was okay.

 

So ...

Edited November 18, 2023 by Megabear2

[Interestedcruisefan]

14 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

Err ... I think that's Andy said! 

 

"Sunbeds" and Arvia is something of an anachronism.  A very large number of the seats/beds whatever you want to call them are actually not beds, they're an odd design of reclining chairs - a good 50% from my observations.  Traditional real "sunbeds" are therefore in pretty short supply particularly around the small infinity pools, in fairness there are more in the front section around in the adults only areas.  I've mentioned this before.  Most of the seating on the promenade deck is this "chair" hybrid.

 

I struggled to get a seat anywhere other than on one of these hybrids on the few dry seadays on my May cruise.  On port days returning around 3.00pm I could get a sunbed at the front near the adult only pool but certainly nowhere actually around it, and finding more than one available would be a challenge, luckily being alone I was okay.

 

So ...

On sea days and in half term week in Feb on Arvia we had to be up early to secure the ones we wanted in the sun all day for sure but walking round the ship (as I do) there were always empty beds or reclining seats available in the shade (if ever I wanted 5 mins out of the sun). Available in quantity? A good spot for those was near where there's an  outdoor chess board of similar.

 

I must admit I never compared sunbeds  or recliners but either way they worked well for me and could always find somewhere in the shade when needed that nobody else wanted

 

We used to be on the higher up  decks

 

I'm genuinely shocked to read no availability anywhere?

 

You wouldn't even have needed to be up by lunch to find availability on our cruise

 

Honestly

Edited November 18, 2023 by Interestedcruisefan

[Megabear2]

55 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

On sea days and in half term week in Feb on Arvia we had to be up early to secure the ones we wanted in the sun all day for sure but walking round the ship (as I do) there were always empty beds or reclining seats available in the shade (if ever I wanted 5 mins out of the sun). Available in quantity? A good spot for those was near where there's an  outdoor chess board of similar.

 

I must admit I never compared sunbeds  or recliners but either way they worked well for me and could always find somewhere in the shade when needed that nobody else wanted

 

We used to be on the higher up  decks

 

I'm genuinely shocked to read no availability anywhere?

 

You wouldn't even have needed to be up by lunch to find availability on our cruise

 

Honestly

I'm sure that in the Caribbean last year Moley mentioned there were reduced numbers of passengers due to being unable to source flights so that may have been an effect.  Certainly the cruises after Christmas on neither ship were showing as sold out at any point.  Britannia has a known sunbed situation on seadays due to her odd layout and lack of shade and yet at Christmas last year it was noticeable you could find sunbeds far easier than normal so I'm guessing the lack of full capacity may well have been there as well, particularly as it was Christmas. Your observation about The Retreat is one very well made but not for dodging the kids, more to guarantee a seat, particularly in the shade!

 

I recall the chessboard. I actually got a seat there on one of the non wet days but it was very blustery.  Even then it was a busy place but as we were going in and out of squalls I ended up being there alone until the heavens opened and I went inside the skydome on that level - that's where I managed to get a seat and the water cascaded in all over us when we were chatting and having a coffee. It was probably drier outside!

 

I walked a lot around the ship too.  Being a solo and interested in taking a perspective on her due to being booked on her for a cruise with my OH I wanted to really see how she worked and what was on offer.  You could say I wanted to look for problems - probably a fair point. The trouble was the "problems" were so obvious it probably looked like I was over egging them.  I tend when I'm alone to literally be the observer and think now how would that affect so and so, or that group. I guess I am the true critic!

 

So yes, I did notice things like the types of seating, where they were and who was using them.  The seating in the Skydome at pool level for instance was all the chairs. Makes sense, big screen, events at night easy to clear etc. Absolutely dreadful though on a cold blowy seaday when families need to keep the kids amused and use the area as a type of local swimming baths with food and drink on tap.  Not a hope in hell of a seat there after 8.30am never mind trying to watch the films, take part in the quiz etc.

 

The problem is ICF Arvia is indeed the "sunshine" ship, great in sunny climes no doubt, but stick over 5,000 people on her with 8 seadays some which will be blustery and even damp and she isn't really that good for it.  

 

I do not believe Arvia is alone on the lack of outside seating.  Unfortunately P&O in my experience have a very low ration for outside seating to passengers (can't speak for the two babies) and always rather "crammed them in" with sunbeds in rows with very small areas between them. Come the pandemic they had to space things out more, suddenly very noticeably people were having even more troubles finding sunbeds, seats.  I'd hesitate a guess the number crunchers might have overlooked some of that for Arvia.  Put people on a ship in hot climates, particularly Brits (and Germans for that matter) and a very large number "camp" on seats all day and no one moves off until late afternoon hence "no seats".  Yes there might be a couple on deck 8 at any one point but not much use if you're on 16 or 17 as by the time you've wandered down they're gone. First seaday I searched for an hour, not knowing where I was going and finally nabbed one on the cold windy side of the promenade as a somewhat frozen gent left. So yes, I can confidently see why no seats is now a common complaint.

 

Caribbean will hopefully be different, much warmer, more ports less seadays = happy shiny people.

Edited November 18, 2023 by Megabear2

[Guest]

P&O are advertising to families now. The average age of a cruiser in the UK is now 55. Intergenerational cruises are also super popular. You are going to get more and more children as ships get bigger and more attractive to the wider public, especially in school times.

 

We sailed on the Celebrity Beyond at the end of July. Celebrity do not have kids pools or any rock walls/mini golf so they only place they can really play is the pool. They do not market at families. On our sailing we had 500 children (3000 pax total). It was manic. The main pool was taken over by children. The staff had a battle to stop them from diving and jumping.

It got that bad, the CAPTAIN jumped in the pool to tell them off. Maybe context is required- Captain Kate McCue was at the helm, and the other Captain (Dimitris) was on holiday on the ship-. It was quite funny to see him in the pool telling the children to stop jumping in. 

So in short, more and more families are cruising on all cruise lines. So if kids are not for you, sail out of school holidays, sail with Virgin or go on an adult only ship 😂 Times move on, cruises are different to how they used to be. 

 

Edited November 18, 2023 by Guest

[Megabear2]

10 minutes ago, Glitterati said:

P&O are advertising to families now. The average age of a cruiser in the UK is now 55. Intergenerational cruises are also super popular. You are going to get more and more children as ships get bigger and more attractive to the wider public, especially in school times.

 

We sailed on the Celebrity Beyond at the end of July. Celebrity do not have kids pools or any rock walls/mini golf so they only place they can really play is the pool. On our sailing we had 500 children (3000 pax total). It was manic. The main pool was taken over by children. The staff had a tight battle to stop them from diving and jumping.

It got that bad, the CAPTAIN jumped in the pool to tell them off. Maybe context is required- Captain Kate McCue was at the helm, and the other Captain (Dimitris) was on holiday on the ship-. It was quite funny to see him in the pool telling the children to stop jumping in. 

So in short, more and more families are cruising on all cruise lines. So if kids are not for you, sail out of school holidays, sail with Virgin or go on an adult only ship 😂 Times move on, cruises are different to how they used to be. 

 

That's a whole different question. You are assuming everyone is anti kids, I haven't seen anyone say that. I have no children or grandchildren, I do however have a myriad of nieces, nephews and godchildren and as such  like the company of children.  There are very few bad children but unfortunately there are plenty of bad parents who " have rights" and want to do just as they want with no rules.  The rules aren't to spoil fun, they're to prevent accidents, people can and do get seriously injured, even crippled people landing on them in a pool.  The entitled parent would soon shout if their offspring was injured by someone and perhaps should consider that before shouting everyone is against our kids.

 

 

Edited November 18, 2023 by Megabear2

[Interestedcruisefan]

38 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

I'm sure that in the Caribbean last year Moley mentioned there were reduced numbers of passengers due to being unable to source flights so that may have been an effect.  Certainly the cruises after Christmas on neither ship were showing as sold out at any point.  Britannia has a known sunbed situation on seadays due to her odd layout and lack of shade and yet at Christmas last year it was noticeable you could find sunbeds far easier than normal so I'm guessing the lack of full capacity may well have been there as well, particularly as it was Christmas. Your observation about The Retreat is one very well made but not for dodging the kids, more to guarantee a seat, particularly in the shade!

 

I recall the chessboard. I actually got a seat there on one of the non wet days but it was very blustery.  Even then it was a busy place but as we were going in and out of squalls I ended up being there alone until the heavens opened and I went inside the skydome on that level - that's where I managed to get a seat and the water cascaded in all over us when we were chatting and having a coffee. It was probably drier outside!

 

I walked a lot around the ship too.  Being a solo and interested in taking a perspective on her due to being booked on her for a cruise with my OH I wanted to really see how she worked and what was on offer.  You could say I wanted to look for problems - probably a fair point. The trouble was the "problems" were so obvious it probably looked like I was over egging them.  I tend when I'm alone to literally be the observer and think now how would that affect so and so, or that group. I guess I am the true critic!

 

So yes, I did notice things like the types of seating, where they were and who was using them.  The seating in the Skydome at pool level for instance was all the chairs. Makes sense, big screen, events at night easy to clear etc. Absolutely dreadful though on a cold blowy seaday when families need to keep the kids amused and use the area as a type of local swimming baths with food and drink on tap.  Not a hope in hell of a seat there after 8.30am never mind trying to watch the films, take part in the quiz etc.

 

The problem is ICF Arvia is indeed the "sunshine" ship, great in sunny climes no doubt, but stick over 5,000 people on her with 8 seadays some which will be blustery and even damp and she isn't really that good for it.  

 

I do not believe Arvia is alone on the lack of outside seating.  Unfortunately P&O in my experience have a very low ration for outside seating to passengers (can't speak for the two babies) and always rather "crammed them in" with sunbeds in rows with very small areas between them. Come the pandemic they had to space things out more, suddenly very noticeably people were having even more troubles finding sunbeds, seats.  I'd hesitate a guess the number crunchers might have overlooked some of that for Arvia.  Put people on a ship in hot climates, particularly Brits (and Germans for that matter) and a very large number "camp" on seats all day and no one moves off until late afternoon hence "no seats".  Yes there might be a couple on deck 8 at any one point but not much use if you're on 16 or 17 as by the time you've wandered down they're gone. First seaday I searched for an hour, not knowing where I was going and finally nabbed one on the cold windy side of the promenade as a somewhat frozen gent left. So yes, I can confidently see why no seats is now a common complaint.

 

Caribbean will hopefully be different, much warmer, more ports less seadays = happy shiny people.

Nice post

 

Where would arvia have been in May?

 

Warm weather cruise or not?

 

 

Edited November 18, 2023 by Interestedcruisefan

[Interestedcruisefan]

30 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

That's a whole different question. You are assuming everyone is anti kids, I haven't seen anyone say that. I have no children or grandchildren, I do however have a myriad of nieces, nephews and godchildren and as such  like the company of children.  There are very few bad children but unfortunately there are plenty of bad parents who " have rights" and want to do just as they want with no rules.  The rules aren't to spoil fun, they're to prevent accidents, people can and do get seriously injured, even crippled people landing on them in a pool.  The entitled parent would soon shout if their offspring was injured by someone and perhaps should consider that before shouting everyone is against our kids.

 

 

Agreed

 

But you also don't have to be "anti children" to enjoy the calm and relaxation an adults only cruise can bring with it

 

I totally accept that

 

Honestly right until now I've always been trying to persuade my parents to come on a cruise with us

 

Really wanted them to do Iona Fjords with us but couldn't persuade them

 

Now I've seen the light from recent posts last few days

 

I've honesty come to the conclusion family ships don't appeal to experienced cruisers (not cruising with grandkids etc) half as much as adult only ships

 

Families make everywhere busier, everwhere noisier

 

It's an inevitable downside of family ships

 

Nobody can change that. Even worse in school holidays of course. Significantly busier and noisier 

 

My parents wouldn't enjoy as much. They are having a great time on a saga cruise right now. Albeit they've paid 11k between them for 21 nights Canaries just for standard balcony

 

Imagine arvia or Iona without kids on board? Totally different atmosphere and ambiance. 

 

Many without kids obviously  still really enjoy arvia and iona

 

But I can appreciate why people like the older P and O ships that are now adults only

 

Aren't they? Or do they just not attract so many families due to less facilities for them?

 

 

Edited November 18, 2023 by Interestedcruisefan

[Megabear2]

9 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

Nice post

 

Where would arvia have been in May?

 

Warm weather cruise or not?

 

 

Warm weather Mediterranean.  La Coruna, Marseille, Cadiz, Palma,  La Spezia, Barcelona  with 8 seadays. It's her "normal" summer schedule, sometime no La Spezia is an overnight Barcelona instead.

 

Unfortunately the weather was not as expected lots of wind, rain, showers on seadays. A couple of nice warm days ashore. The roof only opened once.  Lots of miserable people understandably as they were expecting lots of sunshine which didn't materialise. Ropes, golf etc closed most seadays, Retreat closed as its front of ship and wind issues. That was mine, others obviously different.  

 

When the sun did come out not a seat in sight as everyone wanted one!  

[Megabear2]

2 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

Agreed

 

But you also don't have to be "anti children" to enjoy the calm and relaxation an adults only cruise can bring with it

 

Honestly right until now I've always been trying to persuade my parents to come on a cruise with us

 

Really wanted them to do Iona Fjords with us but couldn't persuade them

 

Now I've seen the light from recent posts last few days

 

I've honesty come to the conclusion family ships don't appeal to experienced cruisers (not cruising with grandkids etc) half as much as adult only ships

 

Families make eVerywhere busier, everwhere noisier

 

It's an inevitable downside of family ships

 

Nobody can change that. Even worse in school holidays of course. Significantly busier and noisier 

 

Imagine arvia or Iona without kids on board? Totally different experience and atmosphere and ambiance

 

Many without kids obviously  still really enjoy arvia and iona

 

But I can appreciate why people like the older P and O ships that are now adults only

 

Aren't they? Or do they just not attract so many families due to less facilities for them?

 

 

There are only two adults ships though.  Actually tye "smaller" ships we discussed, ie Ventura and Azura have always been family along with Britannia and people of all ages like the mix.

 

Personally I love Britannia, a bit of everything.  I'm a bit worried about the Beond comments - we are on her at Christmas as we moved from Arvia.  Celebrity ships are out of Europe and US are normally boisterous good fun with a great mix, that's why we booked on.  Might be interesting ...

[terrierjohn]

15 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

Nice post

 

Where would arvia have been in May?

 

Warm weather cruise or not?

 

 

It does have to sail from Southampton and back to get to the warm weather however, and the sea days in the Atjantic in May can be pretty chilly.

[Interestedcruisefan]

2 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

There are only two adults ships though.  Actually tye "smaller" ships we discussed, ie Ventura and Azura have always been family along with Britannia and people of all ages like the mix.

 

Personally I love Britannia, a bit of everything.  I'm a bit worried about the Beond comments - we are on her at Christmas as we moved from Arvia.  Celebrity ships are out of Europe and US are normally boisterous good fun with a great mix, that's why we booked on.  Might be interesting ...

All the comments from people who prefer the ambiance and atmosphere of those small (adult only) ships do make more sense to me now

 

Those ships might not get the same love if families were on board making them busier and noisier. Even For those who love being around kids. 

 

Totally different vibe. 

 

Especially being smaller ships with less places to escape the hustle and bustle of families

 

Think I've been defending the big ships for the wrong reasons

[Interestedcruisefan]

5 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

It does have to sail from Southampton and back to get to the warm weather however, and the sea days in the Atjantic in May can be pretty chilly.

I get why on windy days the same places that are a great haven to sit in on a Caribbean sea day aren't so attractive on a blustery day heading to and from southampton

 

That is more weather related than ship related though of course. 

[Harry Peterson]

Well brought up and behaved children are an absolute delight, wherever they happen to be. And their parents are likely to be equally delightful.

 

Out of control children are a nightmare - probably along with their parents. 
 

It’s rarely the fault of the children when they’re disruptive.

[Megabear2]

3 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

All the comments from people who prefer the ambiance and atmosphere of those small (adult only) ships do make more sense to me now

 

Those ships might not get the same love if families were on board making them busier and noisier. Even For those who love being around kids. 

 

Totally different vibe. 

 

Especially being smaller ships with less places to escape the hustle and bustle of families

 

Think I've been defending the big ships for the wrong reasons

Exactly the case.  Quite a few contributors on here like their own company, it's much easier on the adult only ships.

Edited November 18, 2023 by Megabear2

[Interestedcruisefan]

3 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

Well brought up and behaved children are an absolute delight, wherever they happen to be. And their parents are likely to be equally delightful.

 

Out of control children are a nightmare - probably along with their parents. 
 

It’s rarely the fault of the children when they’re disruptive.

The thing is the chances of getting a ship full of well behaved children and delightful parents on ships this size is slim to none

 

Just like there will always be some obnoxious adults without kids you might bump into if you are unlucky

 

And also 100 kids together around a pool can make an awful lot of noise (even the best kind of kid with the best kind of parents)

 

My parents wouldn't want to be anywhere near that pool. They've been there seen that done that of course

[yorkshirephil]

1 minute ago, Megabear2 said:

Exactly the case.  Quite a few contributors on here liketgeir own company, it's much easier on the adult only ships.

There is the old saying that Grandchildren  are great but it is nice to give them back. We have met lots of people onboard over the years who spend a lot of time with their grand kids at home, us included when they were actually kids and how nice it was to have some me time on an adult only ship. Lots of parents put their kids in the nursery or kids clubs again to have some me time which is another reason cruising is so appealing to families whereas a lot of grandparents actually want to spend time with their grandchildren onboard rather than put them in the clubs. Horses for courses.

[zap99]

13 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

All the comments from people who prefer the ambiance and atmosphere of those small (adult only) ships do make more sense to me now

 

Those ships might not get the same love if families were on board making them busier and noisier. Even For those who love being around kids. 

 

Totally different vibe. 

 

Especially being smaller ships with less places to escape the hustle and bustle of families

 

Think I've been defending the big ships for the wrong reasons

We try and avoid the School holidays, but will now avoid the adults only ships. Getting knocked over by folk filling in their complaint and claims forms whilst moaning about everything doesn't sound much fun.

[AndyMichelle]

3 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

Well brought up and behaved children are an absolute delight, wherever they happen to be. And their parents are likely to be equally delightful.

 

Out of control children are a nightmare - probably along with their parents. 
 

It’s rarely the fault of the children when they’re disruptive.

Good point Harry. 

Pre lock down, we used to enjoy seeing the well behaved children, it was a pleasure to see. 

This year we did almost the same cruise on Britannia to the Fjords that we did in 2018, so have something to compare to. 

We definitely never saw kids running riot around the ship in 2018, or toddlers in the Live Lounge being allowed to get onto the stage and pull over musical equipment as they were unsupervised, or kids sitting on the bar playing bingo in Brodies past 10 at night, while the parents were taking advantage of the drinks package, or a very young girl (5 or 6) wandering the ship past midnight, up and down in the lifts trying to find her parents, who were eventually located by crew in the buffet... 

Times have changed... 

Andy 

 

[mrsgoggins]

25 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

The thing is the chances of getting a ship full of well behaved children and delightful parents on ships this size is slim to none

 

This might be so with the bigger ships but I’ll share my experience of 2 cruises that spring to mind.

 

Celebrity is the cruise line we use most.  Our 1st and 2nd ever cruises with them were back-to-back on Constellation in 2015 in the Med out of Venice.  The first cruise was August and had many young families with children and I remember being impressed at seeing the Kids’ club activities around the ship and when they were brought into the theatre towards the end to entertain us.  They added to my enjoyment.  The follow-on cruise was into September and it became virtually adults only with an older demographic and had a completely different feel.

 

My first ever P&O cruise was a 7-night Easter holiday cruise with many children on board.  Again I was totally impressed by the many children we encountered, so much so that we booked an almost identical cruise taking our own grandchildren the follow year.  They were not warm weather cruises however, and I have found that this can play a part in the types of folk you get on board - let’s say that the ‘liveliest’ passengers we have encountered have been on Canaries cruises out of Southampton with Royal Caribbean and to a lesser degree, P&O (not Celebrity however).  
 

We are lucky enough to cruise often and even the ‘lively’ behaviour referred to was only occasional, and chalked up to experience and has not put me off either cruise line.  I should perhaps add that we don’t sunbathe and have never sat by a pool on a ship, so would never experience poor behaviour in these areas.