Open Letter to Celebrity: I'm Extremely Disappointed with how your staff handled our multiracial family at check in.

[CruiseRQA]

27 minutes ago, Itchy&Scratchy said:

and how would the original adoption papers prove that the child of color is not being trafficked?

I don't know what "adoption papers" consist of so I can't answer this.   But again, the people being "accused" of a crime in this scenario are white and the child that is trying to be protected is not white.    Which is why this incident is more likely than not a result of stupidity, ignorance and/or poor training rather than racism.  

[CruiseRQA]

24 minutes ago, Itchy&Scratchy said:

your example has nothing to do with the original post. 

Of course it does.

 

My wife was being asked for documentation that was not required to fly.   The gate agent so asking was stupid, ignorant, poorly trained or all of the above.

 

In the OP's situation, they were being asked for documentation that was not required to cruise.   

 

My point is simply that the OP's unfortunate situation was most likely do to factors other than racism.   Especially given that the person being "accused" of maybe doing something wrong was a white guy.  

[vjmatty]

51 minutes ago, gordiej said:

Okay, then right - the passport only proves the familial relationship to the GOVERNMENT that issued the passport. It doesn't prove it to the cruise line. But yes, they have set the policy that if the last names match no further documentation should be required. 

But isn’t that true with all documentation? They’re all government issued, therefore proven to the government. Unless you think Celebrity should start implementing road tests for everyone presenting a state drivers license.

 

ETA: I’m not saying that a driver’s license is sufficient in this particular scenario, it’s just an illustration.

 

 

Edited December 31, 2023 by vjmatty
ETA

[vjmatty]

1 hour ago, gordiej said:

 

Maybe also worth mentioning that just because OP met X's requirement for same last names doesn't necessarily give them a free pass onto the ship. 

Paying the cruise fare and having the proper documentation as listed in the cruise contract does necessarily give them a paid pass onto the ship. 

[ChutChut]

33 minutes ago, CruiseRQA said:

I don't know what "adoption papers" consist of so I can't answer this.   But again, the people being "accused" of a crime in this scenario are white and the child that is trying to be protected is not white.    Which is why this incident is more likely than not a result of stupidity, ignorance and/or poor training rather than racism.  

I don't see where anyone is being accused of a crime. Please explain what "crime?" Racism is not a "crime" unless it's attached to an actual crime like murder, assault, etc. 

[ChutChut]

36 minutes ago, At Sea At Peace said:

 

1.  Well, then let's hear WHY you believe your one kid, among hundreds of families, were singled out and by whom is the "they?"

 

They (identify who/whom) singled your kid and your family out because ~

 

______________________________________________________________

 

______________________________________________________________

 

______________________________________________________________

 

2.  What do want?  An apology, a free cruise, both or both with money?

 

______________________________________________________________

 

______________________________________________________________

 

______________________________________________________________

 

Of course no one knows for sure but it's quite curious that a multi-racial family was singled out among hundreds of families. Could be stupidity, lack of training, or - to a thinking person and one whose child also was singled out on a different cruise - racial bias/profiling, etc. Second question - I think the OP says he/she wants an apology and more training. 

[mphooker]

20 hours ago, Pinboy said:

A " Public Apology " doesn't mean a thing ( I almost used a more explicit term that would have my post removed )--- You hear them ( Public Apology's ) all the time. Means Zero !!!

A " Promise to ensure that Staff are properly trained "---- Good luck with that. Staff are probably minimum wage or volunteers racking up hours to get a free cruise. ( No disrespect to anyone if that is the case ).

A " Great starting point "--- How's this ??

 

From : XX President Celebrity Cruise Lines

CC:     XX VP Customer Service Celebrity Cruise Lines

           XX VP Marketing Celebrity Cruise Lines

Dear Mr Hooker:

I sincerely apologize etc etc---

( finishing with )

I am enclosing a Complimentary 7 Night Cruise Certificate for you and your family , etc etc.

Please contact my PA ( personal assistant ) within the next 12 months and he/she will make the arrangements.

Yours truly

XX 

President Celebrity Cruise Lines

 

 

 

 

 

I like your idea the best so far!!!

[ChutChut]

18 hours ago, critic2023 said:

Let's say that someone saw this family at the cruise terminal, and picked up some warning signs that they thought this young lady may be a victim of trafficking. Totally independent of race - let's say it was other warning signs that had nothing to do with the way she looked as compared to the rest of the family. And then, on top of it all, they find out that she is a minor once they ask for identification. Why on earth would they not ask for the same paperwork (adoption records,  birth certificates, etc.) from the other minors in the group?  If these people are supposedly suspected of trafficking one minor, why would the same precautions not be taken for the other minors in the group?

 

It was racial profiling, plain and simple. And I don't think OP is looking for a "free cruise," as others have suggested - I just think he is hoping changes are made and other families are not subjected to the same treatment. I'm sure it was not pleasant for anyone in his party, most of all his poor daughter.

Well said. This also happened to me and my different-race daughter. It was very clear what was going on. 

[wahooker]

1 hour ago, gordiej said:

Does the passport list the names of the parents? I'm assuming it does not, but will admit I haven't seen a minor's passport in many many years. 

It does not on the passport itself. However, parents names and information,(Even for adults) must be listed on the application and it is verified by the state department prior to issuing the passport.

[At Sea At Peace]

4 minutes ago, ChutChut said:

Of course no one knows for sure but it's quite curious that a multi-racial family was singled out among hundreds of families. Could be stupidity, lack of training, or - to a thinking person and one whose child also was singled out on a different cruise - racial bias/profiling, etc. Second question - I think the OP says he/she wants an apology and more training. 

 

Well, you have raised good points and I agree with most.

 

My point of the question to the OP (currently unanswered) was and is what the OP believes they were singled out and why is the desired outcome ~

 

1.  Well, then let's hear WHY you believe your one kid, among hundreds of families, were singled out and by whom is the "they?"

 

They (identify who/whom) singled your kid and your family out because ~

 

______________________________________________________________

 

______________________________________________________________

 

______________________________________________________________

 

2.  What do want?  An apology, a free cruise, both or both with money?

 

______________________________________________________________

 

______________________________________________________________

 

______________________________________________________________

[ChutChut]

Some replies seem to scoff at the idea that this might have been racial profiling, etc. Until you have stood there, been singled out for no apparent reason other than the ethnicity difference, and made to feel like a second-class citizen, you really don't know anything. To have to stand there and have your young daughter verify to some idiot that you are her mother, etc. It's humiliating and degrading. Now - if this was the procedure for EVERYONE - fine. But it isn't - it's reserved - it seems - for families whose children have different skin color. So, before you minimize OP's situation, place yourself in his/her/kid's shoes. It's not right and shouldn't be tolerated.

[markeb]

I've followed this for the last day and a half. One thing I'm finding fascinating in the responses is the assumption that the OP is white and the daughter black. Nowhere in his posts does the OP say that. There was one place where he replied and could have corrected the assumption and didn't, so maybe that's true. He only stated in the original post that they were of different races. 

 

What if the OP is black and the daughter Asian? Or the OP is Asian and the daughter is white (or black)? Would people recognize that as racist in this case?

 

Just an overall bad situation and a bad look on Celebrity. The employee/contractor needs some serious training. The OP met all of Celebrity's requirements for boarding. Making up new ones is insane. And other than the racial difference nothing in this situation would suggest trafficking and in 2023 that should hardly be sufficient. 

 

Hope they get some resolution. 

[wahooker]

43 minutes ago, At Sea At Peace said:

 

1.  Well, then let's hear WHY you believe your one kid, among hundreds of families, were singled out and by whom is the "they?"

 

They (identify who/whom) singled your kid and your family out because ~

 

______________________________________________________________

 

______________________________________________________________

 

______________________________________________________________

 

2.  What do want?  An apology, a free cruise, both or both with money?

 

______________________________________________________________

 

______________________________________________________________

 

______________________________________________________________

 

Why was my family singled out? The only answer that I see is because the boarding agent saw my daughter was of a different race than her parents, and asked us "Is your daughter adopted?".  I saw no other families being asked if their kids were adopted, and this has never happened before. I suspect this is more because the boarding agent was poorly trained rather than malicious intent on her part or official policy of Celebrity.

What do I want? An Apology and a much better effort on training their staff to handle things correctly, and not pull random requirements out of thin air that are not documented anywhere on any website.

Also, being accused of being potential sex traffickers by a second boarding agent was WAY the F*** over the line. That definitely deserves an apology all by itself.

[ChutChut]

2 minutes ago, markeb said:

I've followed this for the last day and a half. One thing I'm finding fascinating in the responses is the assumption that the OP is white and the daughter black. Nowhere in his posts does the OP say that. There was one place where he replied and could have corrected the assumption and didn't, so maybe that's true. He only stated in the original post that they were of different races. 

 

What if the OP is black and the daughter Asian? Or the OP is Asian and the daughter is white (or black)? Would people recognize that as racist in this case?

 

Just an overall bad situation and a bad look on Celebrity. The employee/contractor needs some serious training. The OP met all of Celebrity's requirements for boarding. Making up new ones is insane. And other than the racial difference nothing in this situation would suggest trafficking and in 2023 that should hardly be sufficient. 

 

Hope they get some resolution. 

Great points!

[Pinboy]

1 hour ago, At Sea At Peace said:

For those suggesting 'money, compensation, etc.' in addition to any apology resolves the matter, such suggestions IMO diminishes the actual genuineness of the assertion of the extent of the initial perceived slight or mistreatment.  Money doesn't make it better.  

To be clear--- the OP never implied, suggested, or asked for anything other than a Public apology.

It was my suggestion re a Complimentary cruise for the entire family, as everyone was ( I'm sure ) bothered, upset, etc  by it for the entire cruise.

It was awful and we all know it !!

I agree, a Complimentary cruise  would not " resolve the matter '', nor would a few $$ " make it  better " , however, the OP would have the option to decline the offer.

( I hope they would accept instead of falling for some " lame duck " form letter --- " Sorry for your inconvenience BS apology ). 

 

 

 

[ChutChut]

17 minutes ago, vjmatty said:

Paying the cruise fare and having the proper documentation as listed in the cruise contract does necessarily give them a paid pass onto the ship. 

Are you suggesting that proper skin color of the parents, etc. should be part of the criteria??????

[wahooker]

4 minutes ago, markeb said:

I've followed this for the last day and a half. One thing I'm finding fascinating in the responses is the assumption that the OP is white and the daughter black. Nowhere in his posts does the OP say that. There was one place where he replied and could have corrected the assumption and didn't, so maybe that's true. He only stated in the original post that they were of different races. 

 

What if the OP is black and the daughter Asian? Or the OP is Asian and the daughter is white (or black)? Would people recognize that as racist in this case?

 

Just an overall bad situation and a bad look on Celebrity. The employee/contractor needs some serious training. The OP met all of Celebrity's requirements for boarding. Making up new ones is insane. And other than the racial difference nothing in this situation would suggest trafficking and in 2023 that should hardly be sufficient. 

 

Hope they get some resolution. 

 

For the record, I am white, and my daughter is Asian. Not that that should matter regardless of the races of parent or child. I guess statistically more adoptive parents are white - but there are many many more multiracial families and blended/remarriage families where parents have a different skin color than one of their kids, and this could happen to a lot of families of all combinations of skin colors.

[tjunmin]

I just read this entire thread, and found it fascinating. The line of arguing, questioning, and some of them downright blaming the victims just shows some of the posters true colors.

Edited December 31, 2023 by tjunmin

[At Sea At Peace]

18 minutes ago, wahooker said:

Why was my family singled out? The only answer that I see is because the boarding agent saw my daughter was of a different race than her parents, and asked us "Is your daughter adopted?".  I saw no other families being asked if their kids were adopted, and this has never happened before. I suspect this is more because the boarding agent was poorly trained rather than malicious intent on her part or official policy of Celebrity.

What do I want? An Apology and a much better effort on training their staff to handle things correctly, and not pull random requirements out of thin air that are not documented anywhere on any website.

Also, being accused of being potential sex traffickers by a second boarding agent was WAY the F*** over the line. That definitely deserves an apology all by itself.

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

I believe it is important to identify 'who' the person(s) worked for.  Living a mile from the port and dealing with cruisers a lot, many are not used to the port staff that are usually older, retired (sort of) snow birds from the northern states, mostly the northeast (and especially the 'city folk' in the northeast).  If one is not 'used to them' them can seem very, very caustic, yet they'd not even notice it amongst themselves.  It is what it is.  I'm getting the vibe that you got 'one of those' and they 'dig in' versus easing back.

 

I also don't know if you were actually accused of potentially being involved as a sex trafficker or if the said unskilled, poorly trained and salty snow birder OR if you felt accused of such with just the reference to their concerns overall.

 

I still can't figure out why it would just you and your family.

 

Back to add one item to our post with our TSA procedures with our Japanese biracial grandkids, one has our last name, one has her mothers-then fathers (ours also) with the hyphen and we offered that were both of the same parents with the naming decision for the oldest more to honor the Japanese grandparents at the time.

 

Well, we hope you had good cruise regardless.  Life is full of so much right now it's hard to stay unscathed.  Take care and we hope that your are treated appropriately and informed in more detail about how and why this could have happened in the first place.

 

Edited December 31, 2023 by At Sea At Peace

[gordiej]

29 minutes ago, vjmatty said:

But isn’t that true with all documentation? They’re all government issued, therefore proven to the government. Unless you think Celebrity should start implementing road tests for everyone presenting a state drivers license.

 

I don't know why this is so hard. John & Patricia Murphy show up with two minors. All have passports. One minor's name is Dylan Murphy, the other minor's name is Peter Murphy. Only one of the minors is the son of John & Patricia. Can you tell which one from the passports?

[At Sea At Peace]

9 minutes ago, Pinboy said:

To be clear--- the OP never implied, suggested, or asked for anything other than a Public apology.

It was my suggestion re a Complimentary cruise for the entire family, as everyone was ( I'm sure ) bothered, upset, etc  by it for the entire cruise.

It was awful and we all know it !!

I agree, a Complimentary cruise  would not " resolve the matter '', nor would a few $$ " make it  better " , however, the OP would have the option to decline the offer.

( I hope they would accept instead of falling for some " lame duck " form letter --- " Sorry for your inconvenience BS apology ). 

 

 

 

 

Yep, that why I stated "For those suggesting 'money, compensation, etc.' " and not the OP.

[gordiej]

By the way, what exactly is a public apology in this context? This was a private matter until the OP posted here about his experience. Would a private apology not be sufficient?

[markeb]

2 minutes ago, wahooker said:

 

For the record, I am white, and my daughter is Asian. Not that that should matter regardless of the races of parent or child. I guess statistically more adoptive parents are white - but there are many many more multiracial families and blended/remarriage families where parents have a different skin color than one of their kids, and this could happen to a lot of families of all combinations of skin colors.

I suspected that, but it’s irrelevant. It could happen to many combinations. Too many blended families out there today. At one time, it was very common for US Servicemembers, regardless of their own race or ethnicity, to adopt children while stationed in Korea. You see a lot of blended families on and around military installations. 
 

It probably doesn’t help that much of the trafficking training uses young Asian women as the victims. It’s supposed to emphasize behavioral indicators, but the visual is what implants. 

[ChutChut]

3 hours ago, flviking said:

As I'm so certain this could only be about protecting children I wonder why we haven't heard about background checks for all passengers to assure there are no sex offenders on board.

 

My sister and BIL adopted three young girls to join their family of four. The bigotry so often directed at them as a multiracial family was amazing and appalling.  She got so tired of it her stock response became "i have five children who have four different fathers who are not all the same race or ethnicity. Do you have anything else to say?"  Every "concerned" bigot then walked away.

 

Hopefully the family can get some legal help to remind Celebrity of these children's civil rights.

My daughter and I have been given so many side looks, stares, disapproving glances, etc. I taught her early to ignore the ignorant fools and low-IQ imbeciles. When other kids (when she was very young - doesn't happen now) would make the "slant eye" when asking where were her eyelids, she just laughed and told them she thought her eye shape was pretty cool. A cashier at Target asked me "how much did she cost?" I told her the kid was priceless and pricey! A dude in Starbucks muttered under his breath that "Chinese Commies shouldn't be allowed" in "his" country. Little did he know my kid is an unabashed Capitalist. I've learned to accept these indignities and just walk on, but, sometimes, I wonder how they have affected my daughter. She says she doesn't care, but, I think, deep down, it hurts her. 

[ChutChut]

10 minutes ago, gordiej said:

I don't know why this is so hard. John & Patricia Murphy show up with two minors. All have passports. One minor's name is Dylan Murphy, the other minor's name is Peter Murphy. Only one of the minors is the son of John & Patricia. Can you tell which one from the passports?

You're right - you can't tell from the passport itself. However, in order to obtain the passport for the child, you have to submit the birth cert., certificate of citizenship, show up with the kid to submit the paperwork, etc. So, it's already been scrutinized.