Northbound inside passage question

[JeffT237]

I will be sailing on the Celebrity Summit Northbound route late August this year.  We chose this cruise because our schedule changed and opened up this week for the opportunity to book an Alaska cruise, we just booked and availability on the cabin type we wanted was limited on all lines. I'm aware of the pros and cons of the different itineraries and we have done Glacier Bay before, it was spectacular.

 

Our scheduled departure time from Vancouver is at 4:00pm and barring anything unforeseen we should be sailing east of Vancouver Island and under the Lions Gate Bridge.  To those of you who have done this route, with a forecasted sunset at around 8:00pm and a sunrise forecasted around 6:25am how far into the passage should we expect to be until we hit darkness, and will we be north of Vancouver Island at sunrise?  I'm expecting most of the passage through the Seymour Narrows and Johnstone Strait will be in darkness, just trying to get an idea of what to expect.

 

Thanks!

[wolfie11]

Leaving Vancouver it will mostly depend on the timing of slack tide at Seymour Narrows.  The ship has a two-hour window around slack tide to transit.  If it’s late evening the ship will speed up and you may be several miles into the Strait of Georgia.  If transit is later the ship will be going slower.  At sunrise you will likely still be in Queen Charlotte Strait but close to Queen Charlotte Sound.

[JeffT237]

@wolfie11  Thank you, I figured there are other factors such as the tide and weather to take into account so there's probably not a definitive answer to exact location.  More of a general location which you answered, thanks!

[lobsternight]

@JeffT237 lots of factors for sure  we have passed northbound many times in daylight and it is truly spectacular scenery,  a few times we have passed in darkness.  You will probably awake at sea, but be back inside  by early afternoon.

 

I suggest you look online at the Canadian Tide and Current tables for your date of departure. As @wolfie11mentioned look the time for slack water, that will give you at least an hour.  If its a minor tide change you may even have a larger window.  

 

I love to be on deck for that time, always see lots of good sea life, often Orcas

[lobsternight]

Ok so got me thinking about our August 18th departure.  First of all look at the Canadian Hydrographic site.  Region 6, scroll down to Campbell River for tides.  There are a lot of apps that calculate these things and you will get a lot of different answers.  The hyydrographi  service has been doing this for more than a century, almways bang on

 

In our case there is a high tide at 3:30pm, the following low is around 9pm, followed by the next high. The tidal difference is only 3ft between the tides, so really we are wide open to go through.

 

Finally, published data is always given in standard time, so in August you will have to adjust an hour

[Heidi13]

On 2/18/2024 at 7:27 AM, JeffT237 said:

I will be sailing on the Celebrity Summit Northbound route late August this year.  We chose this cruise because our schedule changed and opened up this week for the opportunity to book an Alaska cruise, we just booked and availability on the cabin type we wanted was limited on all lines. I'm aware of the pros and cons of the different itineraries and we have done Glacier Bay before, it was spectacular.

 

Our scheduled departure time from Vancouver is at 4:00pm and barring anything unforeseen we should be sailing east of Vancouver Island and under the Lions Gate Bridge.  To those of you who have done this route, with a forecasted sunset at around 8:00pm and a sunrise forecasted around 6:25am how far into the passage should we expect to be until we hit darkness, and will we be north of Vancouver Island at sunrise?  I'm expecting most of the passage through the Seymour Narrows and Johnstone Strait will be in darkness, just trying to get an idea of what to expect.

 

Thanks!

 

Really tough question to answer without knowing the specific date and tides at Seymour Narrows. Cruise ships only transit Seymour +/- 1 hr of LWS or HWS. Therefore, the Master sets a speed on clearing Vancouver for Seymour Narrows.

 

Best guess, for a 16:00 departure. Assuming you depart on time, allow about 1 hr to clear Pt Atkinson, at end of English Bay. You would have 3 hrs to sunset, so at 15 kts, the ship will travel 45 n.mls. It is 100 mls to Seymour, so expect to get about 1/2 way by sunset.

 

In the morning, at 04:00, when I started work, we were usually about Robson Bight to entering Blackfish Sound. Therefore, by 06:25 I would expect to be well into Queen Charlotte Strait.

 

Even at the end of June, at the Solstice, I don't recall going through Seymour before sunset.

[JeffT237]

@lobsternight@Heidi13 Thanks for all the info, really does help. Thanks for the reference points as well! Nice to see them on the map. We are scheduled to depart Vancouver on August 30th.

 

Edited February 20 by JeffT237

[Heidi13]

4 hours ago, lobsternight said:

Ok so got me thinking about our August 18th departure.  First of all look at the Canadian Hydrographic site.  Region 6, scroll down to Campbell River for tides.  There are a lot of apps that calculate these things and you will get a lot of different answers.  The hyydrographi  service has been doing this for more than a century, almways bang on

 

In our case there is a high tide at 3:30pm, the following low is around 9pm, followed by the next high. The tidal difference is only 3ft between the tides, so really we are wide open to go through.

 

Finally, published data is always given in standard time, so in August you will have to adjust an hour

 

When considering Seymour Narrows, you need to look at the specific tides for Seymour, not Campbell River. You also don't look at heights, you review the flow, which can be as much as 16 kts.

 

I have gone through Seymour at any tide, but the BC Coast Pilots standard for cruise ships is +/- 1 hr from LWS/HWS. At least that was the standard when I retired. I would be very surprised, with ships increasing in size, that the standard has been relaxed.

[Heidi13]

6 minutes ago, JeffT237 said:

@lobsternight@Heidi13 Thanks for all the info, really does help. Thanks for the reference points as well! Nice to see them on the map. We are scheduled to depart Vancouver on August 30th.

 

 

HWS 31st Aug is about 00:51, so I expect the ship will approach Maude Island around  Midnight. If you depart on time and don't have an inbound tanker, upon clearing Vancouver, best guess for the set speed is 13 - 14 kts.

[SoloAlaska]

@Heidi13 thank you for sharing so much technical info on here. Usually I just enjoy the view if it’s there but now you have me going back to my good old days and wanting to research ride schedules again. I use to work on some of the highest tides in the world so it brings back memories.

[Heidi13]

24 minutes ago, SoloAlaska said:

@Heidi13 thank you for sharing so much technical info on here. Usually I just enjoy the view if it’s there but now you have me going back to my good old days and wanting to research ride schedules again. I use to work on some of the highest tides in the world so it brings back memories.

 

Seymour Narrows is interesting, both for the tidal currents and the history. It used to have a pinnacle almost centre channel, known as Ripple Rock. A Google search for Ripple Rock will provide the history of how they removed it with the largest non-nuclear explosion.

 

Contrary to what many believe, the flood tide actually flows S'bd and the Ebb flows N'bd, as the 2 tides from Juan de Fuca & Queen Charlotte, meet just south of Campbell River.

 

Most challenging transit is northbound bucking a huge flood at night. You can take the easy route bucking the flood all the way through, but with a 16 kt tide, we only made 4 - 6 kts. We held to the Stbd shore at Maude Island, which has a real nice back eddy close to shore. Since the tide came through the narrows as a well defined wall of water, we cranked on hard over helm to get the bow swinging into the tide before we hit it. If too late, we used opposite helm and took a round turn and another attempt.

 

Best speed ever was a southbound transit running with a 16 kt flood. Speed made good was about about 35 kts.

 

Unfortunately, I'm not aware of any cruise ship making the scheduled transit in daylight and even BC Ferries don't carry pax on this route any more. Only possible option for a daylight transit would be Alaska State Ferries. Note - I don't follow the expedition ships, so some of them might have different schedules.

 

The entire BC Coast has many examples of significant tides in narrow channels, coupled with big turns. A little North of Seymour is Helmecken Island at Kelsey Bay, which also has some interesting tides and rock outcrops that don't interact well with a steel hull. Going through Seymour at slack water means the tide is running at Helmecken. I've had a few interesting N'bd transits.

 

More than happy sharing my knowledge and experiences, from many years on the coast, both in cruise ships and Ro/Pax.