Noordams Jason & His Fantastic Four

[localady]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=blue]If ever a thread needed to go away, it's this one....:o [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=blue]Please consider it in your infinite wisdom.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=blue]Thanks![/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[Karen112999]

Heather,

I am sure you and everyone else will be glad that this will be my last comment on the subject.

I have learned my lesson to use this board as a way of meeting new friends and will continue to join in the roll calls for any future cruises.

Past that - it will be positive comments only. And I did indeed mean every thing I said and my posts where filled with good thing. If Travelgals wants to pursue this with HAL, she will know that I will back her.

I do hope none of you ever have to withstand this type of situation yourself and then be surrounded by non-believers.

Grandsix - sorry I helped ruin you post - was not my intention. Both of you are really nice - Blue Whale - and SeaBiscuit...ditto. If I missed any of my fellow cruisers...sorry.

My best wishes for many pleasant cruises

Karen:)

[serendipity1499]

[quote name='ekerr19']Boards -

I couln't agree with you more! If the nature of incident were truly horrible enough to warrant such harsh, biting criticism; let alone accusations of ineptitude, this certainly is not the forum in which it should have been addressed!!!

I find it very difficult to stay silent on this subject because it seems grossly unfair to me that only one person (or two if count support from a friend who has no first hand knowledge) gets to make these veiled accusations and tell their side of things - though I think that no one (I know I don't) really wants to hear anymore about it - the whole one-sided nature of this bothers me greatly.

When a simple [I]"we experienced an unforunate incident that we felt was improperly handled by the staff - the issue was compounded with a lack of follow through and should have been handled in a much better manner"[/I] we get accusations of gross negligence and extraordinarily harsh and negative comments that potentially may impact a bright, charming (and obviously well-liked) young man's career!

This is completely unfair, in my opinion.

My final thoughts on the subject are this -

In over 100 days on HAL ships - I have never, and I repeat [B]never [/B]- seen any staff member, crew member or officer treat a passenger rudely. I have seen many rude, obnoxious, demanding passengers (drunk and sober) that had to be dealt with by the staff, the staff never exhibited anything less than professionalism. I have the utmost respect for them and the jobs they do - it can't be easy dealing with so many passengers each day.

Because of this, I am using my own experience as the guideline in judging the veracity of this poster's claim.

Did she have a bad experience? I've no reason to doubt that something happened that obviously caused her to become this upset.

Are these comments warranted in this forum? No, this is simply not the place to address the matter.

I hope everyone will consider how completely unfair this is to the other persons involved in the incident and how potentially damaging even unsupported claims against others can be.

Over the years we have made some fantastic friends in cruise staff, production cast, singers, dancers, musicians, etc. - and have always enjoyed meeting them. :) They do a fantastic job and work very hard.[/quote]

My sentiments exactly!

I'm not doubting that the poster was embarrassed & possibly humiliated, but this is not the place to [B]Name[/B] the party who wronged you! Had I experienced the insult, I might be just as upset but what you have done by [B]naming[/B] the CD is slanderous!

To Quote ekerr:
" When a simple [I]"we experienced an unforunate incident that we felt was improperly handled by the staff - the issue was compounded with a lack of follow through and should have been handled in a much better manner"[/I]

Any one who has been in Management knows that: To [B]publicly [/B]accuse someone's style of management is unfair to that person..It would have been more appropriate if the poster had written a complaint directly to Jason & or HAL and only stated on this board that they were unhappy with HAL's Response to the problem..She is also alluding to be a Manager with her statement: "(I did not expect to be managing a cruise staff on my vacation- that is from what I had hoped to escape.)"..That statement to me is is ludicrous. :rolleyes:

[HeatherInFlorida]

I agree with everyone. I'd just never seen a person named here specifically when he doesn't have to opportunity to defend himself.

Beyond that, I never questioned Travelgal's or Karen's posts (what little we were told) and I'm sorry they've both misunderstood that.

As far as being criticized here, we've all experienced it and it's not fun but sometimes there's something to be learned from that.

I've just never seen a lynching against a named individual with no ability to defend himself take place here before and I hope I never see it again.

[ekerr19]

[quote name='Karen112999']

I do hope none of you ever have to withstand this type of situation yourself and then be surrounded by non-believers.

[/quote]

Karen -

I hope this will be my last post on this subject as well - please understand that this statement above is the very reason why I am so confused. :confused:

Obviously something occurred - no one is saying it didn't - and I'm sure it must have been hurtful, and/or tramatic for travelgals and her family - there is not one person here who has argued against that.

But, please read your own statement! We know absolutely nothing of the situation (and as Heather also points out - we don't need to hear it now!) you are calling us "non-believers" but have given us nothing... We don't know if we could "withstand the situation", because we don't know what the situation is (or was)!!!!!

I do think it extremely unfair to attempt "career assassination" of someone who cannot defend himself on this thread.

As serendipity1499 also points out, (and given the fact that it seems highly personal) it probably should never have been mentioned on this very public forum.

I hope both you and travelgals understand that no one is trying to make light of what may have happened, merely that this was not (and should not) be the place to "hash it all out".

To travelgals and her family - I'm sincerely sorry that something happened that caused you to wish to cut your vacation short and leave the ship. That's no way to spend a vacation. I hope it is resolved in a satisfactory manner for you and your family. I hope you have the opportunity for a positive experience on a HAL ship in the future. :)

[SmileHMB]

I think enough has been said too. I will not comment except, Travelgals, I am here for you. If you need me to confirm anything, just post and let me know. I loved Jason, David, Brandon, Ana, on and on..........Jason if you read this tell them all hi, esp. those Northern Lights guys! Ask Edgar to see the pics, those guys know how to let loose!!

[RevNeal]

I have stayed out of this because I am both utterly biased and rather fond of people on this board and of many of the staff mentioned here. However, allow me to say this much:

The Cruise staff on the Noordam during the Maiden voyage were among the very best. Up until a few years ago I had not, normally, had much to do with the CD or ACDs. When I began serving as Chaplain, however, that changed and I began to notice this part of the ship's staff more and more. Since then I've met quite a few and have enjoyed getting to know them. This was particularly true on the Noordam; Holland America has chosen excellent people to be on the Noordam during her inaugural year. This includes Jason, as well as the "fab 4 ... or more".

I have enjoyed a few cruises with Jason as CD. He has all the "things" going for him that anyone needs to be a success in the job. To put it simply, Jason is a real winner. Is he also human? Yes. Does he have his good days and his not-so-good days? I would hope so ... anything else and I would be totally intimidated by him ( :D ). The one thing that I personally experienced on the Noordam was a bit of "distance." He was there, but he wasn't. It was almost as if he was going through the motions, reading the script, smiling, and nodding an "hello" ... but, for all of that, he could have been a pre-programmed hologram and I wouldn't have known any different. In the past, and on more than one cruise, I've spoken at length with Jason. On those occasions he was always personable, and even remembered me from one cruise to the next. This time, however, it was almost as if he had found me under a rock and wanted to put me back as quickly as he could. Frankly, it didn't bother me. I didn't really need the attention, and I figured that he was preoccupied by issues relating to the cruise that left him "elsewhere" even when he was supposed to be "on." On prior cruises he would always greet me with that stunning smile and a kind inquiry as to how things were progressing. On the Noordam, however, only his agility kept him from walking through me on more than one occasion. Once, in an elevator, he looked at me with a dazed expression that held a moment of recognition. He opened his mouth as if to say something, then stopped himself and only mumbled "good day" when the doors opened for him to exit. I'm sure he was very busy, and given that this was the maiden voyage and there were a number of "notables" aboard, I would imagine that we all kept him hopping. But, at least in my experience, he was a more "distant" Jason than I had come to expect.

NONE of this is a criticism ... it's an account of my experience of the Cruise Director of the Noordam during the maiden voyage cruise. Others may have had a different experience, or whatever ... and I shall pass on making a comment.

[anley]

This seems to be much ado about something that was addressed by the offended party on board and certainly discussed at length on the comment card at the end of the trip . We had some glitches but did not feel the need to discuss them on the boards. If they were bad enough and HAL did nothing we have the option of traveling with a different line. I know that I was and am much more relaxed when on vacation. As far as Jason goes he is working not on vacation and we should not be psychoanalyzing him. He never missed an
opportunity to greet us pleasantly any time we saw him but that is what every HAL employee should be doing,so that is what he was doing. No one pleases everyone and no one is perfect.
Happy Sailing ,
Anley :):)

[Alzarine]

I am amazed this thread is still continuing ...... It's original purpose was to complement Jason and his staff for a job well done. It has turned into almost an analysis of Jason's every action. Is there a subtle agenda here, I am not getting ? :confused: This is not fair to Jason as he cannot defend himself in anyway.

Folks, he is a Cruise Director on the Noordam not President of the United States !

I thought these boards were to discuss cruising, answer questions for people, be helpful etc. not to hang someone's reputation out to dry :eek:

[Alzarine]

I am amazed this thread is still continuing ...... It's original purpose was to compliment Jason and his staff for a job well done. It has turned into almost an analysis of Jason's every action. Is there a subtle agenda here, I am not getting ? :confused: This is not fair to Jason as he cannot defend himself in anyway.

Folks, he is a Cruise Director on the Noordam not President of the United States !

I thought these boards were to discuss cruising, answer questions for people, be helpful etc. not to hang someone's reputation out to dry :eek:

[ekerr19]

[quote name='Seabiscuit']I am amazed this thread is still continuing ...... It's original purpose was to complement Jason and his staff for a job well done. It has turned into almost an analysis of Jason's every action. Is there a subtle agenda here, I am not getting ? :confused: This is not fair to Jason as he cannot defend himself in anyway.

Folks, he is a Cruise Director on the Noordam not President of the United States !

I thought these boards were to discuss cruising, answer questions for people, be helpful etc. not to hang someone's reputation out to dry :eek:[/quote]

I agree Seabiscuit! I had hoped this thread was going on to page two, but here it is right back up top!!! Because it is - I am going to say this:

Revneal -

I did not find Jason distant at all and I was on the same cruise as you - and that's MY experience. He remembered both our names and went out of his way to greet us and really helped us with something when we were unsure who could.

I'm REALLY glad that my job/position is not critiqued by a bunch of people who have no real understanding of what is involved or going on behind the scenes - or that my every facial expression, movement or greeting is not analyzed for it's sincerity; or whether or not I gave "warm fuzzies" to my clients. :mad:

This isn't criticism? Please - you couldn't have said any worse about the guy. It's just too much.

[HeatherInFlorida]

Seabiscuit, well said. I'm glad CC has a glitch and it popped up twice. That way everyone gets to read it for sure:) .

But no matter how many times I look over this thread, Jason still wins. There are many more compliments than the opposite so if Jason sees this, I hope he realizes that.

It's a huge ship! There are over 2000 people on her! No one is going to make everyone happy! So there were a couple of oversights, so what?

Get a grip, people! I'm sorry, Greg, it's rare I disagree with you but geez! The guy didn't recognize you. Actually, he did and he just wasn't sure so decided rather than make a mistake he moved on. That's not an insult. How many people does Jason meet every week during the year? I think it's amazing they remember anyone.

I'm betting on a brand new ship, there's a heck of a lot involved bringing staff from separate ships together and hoping to make it appear that the task is seamless. It's not!

Do you know how many people wouldn't dream of going on the first few cruises of a new ship for the simple reason that "stuff happens" until everyone gets their act together and the ship is truly "shipshape"? Sounds to me like these cruises are going pretty smoothly.

Give the guy a break, for heaven's sake. Enough already!

[FlorenceItaly]

if perhaps the point of Greg's post is that Jason, was not himself, and was perhaps having an off week like we ALL do. It happens. I standed amazed on how the staff and crew are able to be "ON" all the time, from week to week. I don't think I could. Just a thought.


Marie

[RevNeal]

[QUOTE]... the point of Greg's post is that Jason, was not himself, and was perhaps having an off week like we ALL do. It happens. I standed amazed on how the staff and crew are able to be "ON" all the time, from week to week. I don't think I could. Just a thought.[/QUOTE]

Thank you, Marie. The point of my post is precisely what you stated. Granted, as Laura rightly indicated, he was not distant with her ... which means that when I encountered Jason around ship it may have been at moments when he was simply preoccupied with something else. I had never encountered that kind of detachment with Jason before, and so I was surprised. Indeed, I am truly amazed, given that I'm in a similar kind of people-relating profession, at how these CDs (and Jason is among the very best at this) manage to be "up" and "with it" and personable so MUCH of the time. They must be [b]way[/b] over on the extroverted end of the scale on the Myers-Briggs personality profile. That was why I was a bit surprised, for it was not in character with what I knew of him from three prior cruises.

I was not whining or complaining about it, I was simply offering my own observation and personal opinion. To me, on this cruise, he was efficient, well-versed in his duties, and seemed just a "bit distant." That is a valid personal opinion of the performance of a CD in his duties. If some people have problems accepting a first-hand opinion based upon observations made during the cruise of a Cruise Line official's performance of his duties -- and how he relates to passengers IS part of the performance of his duties -- then how can they deal with ANY review of a cruise that has ANY constructive criticism in it at all? Disagree with my opinion, [b]certainly[/b], but please don't call it "an attack." Cabin stewards and table stewards are often named and their performance evaluated on these boards. THEY can't "defend themselves" either. What about all the criticism of Captains, Hotel Managers, front desk staff, and other cruise line officials? Because they must be exceedingly careful in how they post on these boards (when they post), does this mean that we're not going to be allowed to offer any constructive criticism as to how they perform their duties? Of course not! What it does mean is that we should and must be FAIR in our observations. We should relate our own experiences, and do so with the understanding that personal experiences (i.e., "milage") will vary greatly.

A cruise director's job is to relate to people. My personal experience and opinion of the cruise director on the Noordam's maiden voyage in the performance of his job is, as I stated in my prior post: (1) he is an EXCELLENT cruise director ... among the very best, (2) he has all the "gifts and graces" for the job, including looks that make inferior specimens like myself feel very self-conscious, and (3) relative to me, on this cruise (and on this cruise only) he was a "bit distant." Two strong positives, one qualified and mild neutral. That was my experience. It is no more, [b]and no less[/b], valid than anyone's contrary opinion. And it is not a "personal attack."

[GMoney]

This thread is a train wreck...:D

[YankeesFan224]

Fact of the matter here is it seems this thread went way of coarse. Travelgal had an issue and she wanted to voice it, I think she could given a little more on the senario to help us more understand but that is fine as its her choice, I think we also gave her the channels to esclate her issue so she could get an answer. As far as Jason goes, He is a young guy he has a very good job compared to others on that ship and he makes a nice paycheck while saling the world. Is it easy, I dought it but will he come in the public eye from time to time, Yes his position gives him exposer to that. Do you really think that due to one issue you are going to hurt his career or confidence, I really dought it

From all the ships i have been on the CD runs around a whole lot more then you would have to on the Hal line. He is dating a lady from entertainment team and he is saling the world making a nice paycheck. I dont think this thread will bother him.

These things are part of his job and he is used to dealing with them. If he droped the ball maybe he can aplogize to travelgal when she gets intouch with the head office and thats all a done issue.

[KAYEF]

I was shocked to read through this thread!
WHY is a person has a problem doesn't he/she go the the person who can solve it?
The job of Cruise Director is not to handle all of these problems. I see the C. D. as a sort of cheerleader who can "make or break" the feeling tone of the entire ship and Jason is SO POSITIVE how can those negative nellies win others over?????????
He was the most wonderful C.D. we've ever sailed with (VEENDAM Nov. 26-Dec. 10, 2005).
Having been on the O with a female who was on the loud speaker day and night SHOUTING, believe me, Jason's voice was welcome on the airwaves. He only came on when he had SOMETHING TO SAY; he did not steal away our quiet.
He spoke well, used excellent grammar (something you don't even find on newscasts these days) and something that amazed me............he seemed to be everywhere at once and had fresh, pressed, different clothing many times a day.
He always had time to stop and visit even if he was running to his next gig.
We had a fun chat about our home area (Oregon) and about his upcoming new job aboard the N.
What an amazing young man. He was able to discuss with me why/how he comes by his wonderful people skills.............he has great understanding of this.
I just know, from a long career of working with people, that you can have one thousand who "love" you and just one who can make problems for you in your career.
People, if you have a problem, take it to the person.................next, to the person in charge.
To take it to these boards and cause such heartache to a person is very mean-spirited.
Jason, if you read this thread I KNOW you will learn from this.
Please know that you just made our cruise so positive and wonderful with your cheery messages over the loud speaker only when they were needed. You never talked to hear yourself talk; you gave directions well and that was it.
Keep up the good work. Wish I was on the N to enjoy you again but I've the Veendam coming up!:o

[KAYEF]

SORRY!!
I neglected to mention something I feel is important to me when on a cruise.
Those little cards one can pick up at the front desk............I try to write three or four every day when on a cruise. I write positives and mention people by name, if possible.
I know those cards are important to the careers of those working onboard and I also know, from working with the public, that most often people only put complaints in writing..............I was shocked on my first cruise to visit with a person who thought they were for complaints only!
I know it takes time, but I pick up several the first day and sometimes I write a few when enjoying the view on deck or in the Crow's Nest.......or when waiting my turn to finish up in the bathroom before dinner!
I also take a small pack of Thank You notes with me and write them to people who deserve them............sometimes I enclose extra money.
I learned on the Veendam last winter that I must put my Cabin Number on the envelope so they can check to make sure I've left my 10% gratuity on the books OR the money will be added to the pool.............another subject.
What I wanted to say, in fewer words, was..............let those who were special know it!
Have you ever taken note that the people who work at the front dest
always smile?:)

[HeatherInFlorida]

[quote name='revneal'].......................
.......................The one thing that I personally experienced on the Noordam was a bit of "distance." He was there, but he wasn't. It was almost as if he was going through the motions, reading the script, smiling, and nodding an "hello" ... but, for all of that, he could have been a pre-programmed hologram and I wouldn't have known any different. In the past, and on more than one cruise, I've spoken at length with Jason. On those occasions he was always personable, and even remembered me from one cruise to the next. This time, however, it was almost as if he had found me under a rock and wanted to put me back as quickly as he could. Frankly, it didn't bother me. I didn't really need the attention, and I figured that he was preoccupied by issues relating to the cruise that left him "elsewhere" even when he was supposed to be "on." On prior cruises he would always greet me with that stunning smile and a kind inquiry as to how things were progressing. On the Noordam, however, only his agility kept him from walking through me on more than one occasion. Once, in an elevator, he looked at me with a dazed expression that held a moment of recognition. He opened his mouth as if to say something, then stopped himself and only mumbled "good day" when the doors opened for him to exit. I'm sure he was very busy, and given that this was the maiden voyage and there were a number of "notables" aboard, I would imagine that we all kept him hopping. But, at least in my experience, he was a more "distant" Jason than I had come to expect.

NONE of this is a criticism ... ...............[/quote]

"[B][I][SIZE=4]None of this is a criticism"???????????????[/SIZE][/I][/B]
[B][I][SIZE=4][/SIZE][/I][/B]
Greg, you're kidding, right? Not a criticism? If this isn't, please don't let me be on the other end when you [I][B]do[/B][/I] criticize.

It [I][B]is[/B][/I] a criticism. And that's fine since you're telling a specific story of something that happened to you if you'd done it any other place and any other time. However, it follows on the heels of a blatant criticism by someone who did not even tell what happened. She simply said she was wronged ... end of story!

So your post looks like support for that. Granted you cloaked your story in some warm stuff about Jason, but don't say at the end it's not a criticism when it clearly is.

It isn't a question of whether CC is a place for "fair" criticism. I think it is. This thread is not fair. You say people constantly trash specific HAL employees on this board and name names? Well, I haven't seen it ... certainly not like this. This is all stuff pulled out of thin air and it has no "meat". There is no story.

I haven't read one single solitary thing on this thread that would make me think ill of Jason. But I've read a heck of a lot that would make me want to cruise with him. I hope I have the pleasure of cruising with him someday.

I'm glad that Yankees has inside info about what will and will not hurt a person. Who among us doesn't get hurt when we're talked about in a public forum. If they say they aren't, they're lying. We're all people and words do hurt no matter what anyone tells you.

Kayef, looks like you're part of a large club who think Jason is a pretty darned good CD:) .

[RevNeal]

[quote name='HeatherInFlorida']"[B][I][SIZE=4]None of this is a criticism"???????????????[/SIZE][/I][/B]
[B][I][SIZE=4][/SIZE][/I][/B][/QUOTE]

Wow ... nelly! You just blew my few hairs back off the top of my head.

[QUOTE]Greg, you're kidding, right? Not a criticism? If this isn't, please don't let me be on the other end when you [I][B]do[/B][/I] criticize.[/QUOTE]

"Criticism" as in "attack" and "personal attack" and "negative," "unwarranted," "vicious," criticism. It IS constructive criticism. Or, at least, it was an attempt at such.

[QUOTE]It [I][B]is[/B][/I] a criticism. And that's fine since you're telling a specific story of something that happened to you if you'd done it any other place and any other time. However, it follows on the heels of a blatant criticism by someone who did not even tell what happened. She simply said she was wronged ... end of story![/QUOTE]

Which is why I said it wasn't intended as a critical attack piece.

[QUOTE]So your post looks like support for that. Granted you cloaked your story in some warm stuff about Jason, but don't say at the end it's not a criticism when it clearly is.[/QUOTE]

I didn't just cloak it in some warm stuff about Jason. I provided an observation of his performance. I SAID he was an Excellent CD, while relating my one experience that wasn't up to par with my prior encounters with him. Oh, and I didn't gush about him.

[QUOTE]It isn't a question of whether CC is a place for "fair" criticism. I think it is. This thread is not fair. You say people constantly trash specific HAL employees on this board and name names?[/QUOTE]

[b]NO[/b] ... I did [b]NOT[/b] say that people constantly "trash" specific HAL employees. It is PRECISELY that type of mis-characterization of balanced constructive criticism that occasioned my statement that my remarks were NOT "criticism." [b]Please[/b] don't attempt to put words or meanings into my writing that were NOT there.

[QUOTE]I haven't read one single solitary thing on this thread that would make me think ill of Jason. But I've read a heck of a lot that would make me want to cruise with him. I hope I have the pleasure of cruising with him someday.[/QUOTE]

And, I AGREE. I don't think ill of Jason; I have enjoyed 4 cruises on which he was CD and would love to enjoy 4 more.

[QUOTE]Kayef, looks like you're part of a large club who think Jason is a pretty darned good CD:) .[/QUOTE]

And, again, I AGREE. I think he IS a "pretty darned good CD." My wording was that he is an "Excellent CD."

[YankeesFan224]

Heather,

I dont have inside anything, I guess you can say I am being a stereo type. If it was me it would not hurt my feelings at all. I am just saying based on his character and his job title this will happen from time to time. You learn to deal with it as its a part of life, The guy is not a baby and i am sure he is nowere near as phased by this as you seem to be. You cant please everybody and sometimes you down right make a mistake It happens "I am sure I have made many", All I am saying is he has plenty going for him, This board is created to say what you want its a public forum, He represents Hal, This is a Hal board and a she is a PAYING Hal cusomter who was unhappy who cares what the issue was she can say what she likes, Its part of the job when you are in the lime light. Others are also allowed to comment on it if they liked him or not, Its there opinion and he is part of your paid vacation.