Dumbing Down & Dressing Down: The New Cunard?

[seacruise9]

Hi,

 

I first sailed with Cunard (aboard the QE2) in 1984 and agree that the line used to be more formal. In my opinion, however, Cunard still seems to have a sufficient number of formal nights. I am booked on the Queen Anne's Maiden World Cruise for 98 days from New York to Southampton (Jan. 18 - April 27, 2025). My cruise calendar indicates that 20 Gala Evenings are scheduled for the voyage. This is approximately 20% of the nights.

 

Chuck

[Lakesregion]

3 hours ago, Pushpit said:

To be fair, in the wider world, having FIVE gala nights over 5 weeks is probably not considered to be dumbing down in the great scheme of things. I'm sure it will work out wonderfully for all concerned. And naturally you and your companion can make EVERY night a gala night if you wish.

17 day QA NYC to SF in Jan 2025 lists five gala evenings out of 17, so it would appear that Cunard is all over the lot trying to decern what to do andwhen. 

[Lakesregion]

2 hours ago, Pushpit said:

I go back to RMS Carinthia, Liverpool to Montréal, as my first Crossing a scary number of years ago, so I'm not exactly a newbie, but I am not sure I would go along with a logic that we all naturally resist change and adaptation. In a sense I would quite like to go back to the QE2 days where almost every night was formal. And in those days the code was enforced somewhat ruthlessly.

 

But I also see the point of making it "special" by being less regular and it's great to see the youngsters usually completely going for it, and with more enthusiasm than "oh we have to dress up to eat" when it was a daily affair. It's remarkable that Cunard is still with us, on many levels, and the Line would only be able to do that by adapting and embracing change. As have all longstanding institutions in good health, from the monarchy downwards. People who book Cunard knowing it's not just another floating barge appealing to the lowest denominator.

One can only imagine the angst should Cunard revert to the days of the QE2 with formal on all sea nights and tie and jacket for the gentlemen on all "casual" port days. As to change yes most everyone in the world of business has changed even though the addage "if it is not brokern do not try to fix it" is a solid statement and one The NewYorker Magazine has held with since its beginning 100 years ago. Same type style same layout same wondful criculation, even though the readers are not the sme people..

[2Oldpeopleinlove]

1 hour ago, david,Mississauga said:

As for the "smart" nights I refuse to dumb down my standards and I wear a jacket and tie every night and am pleased there are usually many others who do the same.  No, I do not look down my nose at those who don't. Cunard assured me in response to comments I made a few years ago: "The dress code is a minimum and you are free to dress as formally as you wish." 

My husband does the same and, as I’ve said here before, if men knew how terrific they look seriously dressed up, they’d do it more and stop complaining. 
 

I do wish, however, that people who have been on more Cunard voyages over more years wouldn’t assume their longer experience with the brand means their opinions count for more than anyone else’s. Reminds me of the couple of people with whom we sing who continually point out to others that they are “cradle Episcopalians.” It’s  pretty much irrelevant to what changes Cunard will make or whether one can hit that high A with confidence.

[DukeBeetle24]

5 minutes ago, 2Oldpeopleinlove said:

I do wish, however, that people who have been on more Cunard voyages over more years wouldn’t assume their longer experience with the brand means their opinions count for more than anyone else’s.

Thank you for pointing this out, though I wish it didn't need to be said.

[NE John]

Gala night attire standards are very well adhered to and are the least concern. The main concern is the broad definition given by Cunard for “Smart Attire” night. The attire for these evenings are kinda all over the place because of this broad definition. Again, most everyone looks good but there is a lot of variation. 

[reeves35]

Cunard has to go where the market takes them.  If Carnival Corp see Celebrity or HAL, both lines considered to be competitors, are achieving higher per diems and greater margins than Cunard, of course, they will change the product.  This may mean changes in dining, onboard apps, entertainment etc.

 

I have never really understood why people worry what other passengers are wearing.  Sure, there should be a minimum standard but don't let it spoil your cruise.  If you feel special dressed up, great, enjoy your night.  Other people are enjoying their holiday in a way that suits them and that is fine.  Live and Let Live!

 

I probably think the level of gala nights is OK particularly as participation remains voluntary with access to other venues if you choose not to participate though I do concede that it is possible that in future years this may further change with one level of the MDR assigned for gala whilst the other level is still smart attire even on a designated gala night. 

 

The reason for this is, for passengers not joining a Cunard ship in their homeport, luggage is a real consideration.  Sure if you're just driving down to Southampton from London, you can take as much as you like but, if you are flying, like many of Cunard's target customers will have to, then you are probably restricted to a single 23kg suitcase and loading up the bag with more than one formal suit/gown probably doesn't make sense.

 

 

 

[Mareblu]

2 hours ago, reeves35 said:

Cunard has to go where the market takes them.  If Carnival Corp see Celebrity or HAL, both lines considered to be competitors, are achieving higher per diems and greater margins than Cunard, of course, they will change the product.  This may mean changes in dining, onboard apps, entertainment etc.

 

I have never really understood why people worry what other passengers are wearing.  Sure, there should be a minimum standard but don't let it spoil your cruise.  If you feel special dressed up, great, enjoy your night.  Other people are enjoying their holiday in a way that suits them and that is fine.  Live and Let Live!

 

I probably think the level of gala nights is OK particularly as participation remains voluntary with access to other venues if you choose not to participate though I do concede that it is possible that in future years this may further change with one level of the MDR assigned for gala whilst the other level is still smart attire even on a designated gala night. 

 

The reason for this is, for passengers not joining a Cunard ship in their homeport, luggage is a real consideration.  Sure if you're just driving down to Southampton from London, you can take as much as you like but, if you are flying, like many of Cunard's target customers will have to, then you are probably restricted to a single 23kg suitcase and loading up the bag with more than one formal suit/gown probably doesn't make sense.

 

 

 

As an Australian who also needs to travel vast distances to partake in Cunard (or other) voyages to the regions of the northern hemisphere I and DH love to explore and revisit, I empathise with the luggage dilemma.  The solution is simple really:  dress elegantly (or "formally") for each evening.  DH only needs to travel with one dinner jacket (tuxedo) and formal trousers, and add a different bow tie and kerchief to change the look.  I simply pack formal pantsuits, evening tops, several pairs of flowing culottes and one or two evening pants. 

 

I also understand the "live and let live" philosophy, but here we disagree.  I am of the firm conviction that what one wears in the evening sets the tone for the evening.  I've often found it interesting to note that once a few couples dress elegantly, on any line we've sailed with, the next evening sees many more following suit.  Sometimes, on non-Cunard lines, it's simply a matter of simple attire with elegant jewellery added, and the diamonds don't need to be authentic, just adding an elegant lifting of the attire. 

 

Prior to our very recent and delightful two-week Queen Anne voyage, we enjoyed a three-week Med cruise on Oceania's new Vista.  Each evening, we dressed for dinner, although admittedly DH was not dressed in his formal dinner attire, but in a jacket and tie nonetheless.  Those same clothes served us well on Queen Anne later, with DH bringing out the dinner jacket (tux) for the gala evenings.  He also wore it on one or two other  evenings on QA.  

 

On another note, but to add to other observations above, I find those who claim "ownership" of any particular experience, in this case the proud and revered Cunard line, are condescending in the extreme, and probably suffering delusions of grandeur.

[exlondoner]

9 hours ago, Pushpit said:

The slightly less scary of those options - the ship where the crew kept going on strike mid voyage. 

Another tradition gone west.

[exlondoner]

7 hours ago, 2Oldpeopleinlove said:. 
 

I do wish, however, that people who have been on more Cunard voyages over more years wouldn’t assume their longer experience with the brand means their opinions count for more than anyone else’s. Reminds me of the couple of people with whom we sing who continually point out to others that they are “cradle Episcopalians.” It’s  pretty much irrelevant to what changes Cunard will make or whether one can hit that high A with confidence.

I fear it may not be irrelevant to whether one can hit a high A - younger voices, alas, tend to be the ones that soar.

[exlondoner]

3 hours ago, reeves35 said:

Cunard has to go where the market takes them.  If Carnival Corp see Celebrity or HAL, both lines considered to be competitors, are achieving higher per diems and greater margins than Cunard, of course, they will change the product.  This may mean changes in dining, onboard apps, entertainment etc.

 

I have never really understood why people worry what other passengers are wearing.  Sure, there should be a minimum standard but don't let it spoil your cruise.  If you feel special dressed up, great, enjoy your night.  Other people are enjoying their holiday in a way that suits them and that is fine.  Live and Let Live!

 

 

 

 

 

Carnival own HAL, but not Celebrity, so presumably the information available to them on these two lines may differ. I can’t find it, because I am incompetent (yes, of course, you all noticed😀), but floating around on here somewhere is some evidence that Cunard is one of the most profitable of the Carnival lines. If that is so, perhaps they should be making the others more like Cunard, not, as so many seem to fear, vice versa.

 

I agree that it shouldn’t make a difference what other people are wearing, providing always they don’t smell. But actually it seems to. I find clothes deeply boring, and don’t cruise on Cunard to dress up at all. Nonetheless, arriving in a full QG on a formal night to see everyone elegantly dressed gives a certain buzz, and is a much more exciting experience than lunch in the Lido with people in shorts and T-shirts would be. Don’t know why, but it is.

 

[Victoria2]

We dress 'well' and like a few balanced CC members don't let others' attire affect us other than to admire stand out beautiful outfits, male and female but some of the  comments on present passengers attire make me smile  Mareblu whereas I laugh at others. I have had my share of snippy retorts removed in the past too. Probably understandable as I can be very snippy with arrogance! 😀

 

If folk used the word 'changing' when lamenting the past and objecting to the changes, I would have every sympathy with their feelings and attitudes but dumbing down? No. It reeks of condescension and it's that kind of arrogance non Cunard passengers associate with Cunard when they worry 'will they fit in' if they book.

 

Answer is of course, Cunard passengers are lovely and the few diehard attitudes displayed here to the Cunard tweaks will not be translated to attitudes onboard. So wear a suit instead of full black tie on gala nights but be prepared to eat in the buffet if you don't want to pack either and don't be concerned at wearing a shirt and no jacket or tie on the other evenings.

 

 

 

 

[david63]

2 hours ago, Mareblu said:

I've often found it interesting to note that once a few couples dress elegantly, on any line we've sailed with, the next evening sees many more following suit

But only if you have the clothes with you!

2 hours ago, Mareblu said:

and the diamonds don't need to be authentic

Please don't tell my wife that😇

1 hour ago, exlondoner said:

floating around on here somewhere is some evidence that Cunard is one of the most profitable of the Carnival lines

I think that might be a recent announcement about increased bookings but is clouded by the addition of QA. As far as I am aware there are no published accounts for Cunard as it is part of Carnival UK.

[missson1967]

There is no doubt the dress code has been diminished by Cunard over recent years, particularly pre & post-Covid.  We don't see how anyone who has sailed with Cunard for more than, say, 5 years, could seriously question that notion.  Whether that equates to "dumbing down" is a matter of perception.  We happen to agree with that description. 

 

Equally, we take no offence at the comments made by those longstanding Cunard customers who share the benefit of their prior experiences & certainly don't regard that as "condescending" or "arrogance" (there are, however, plenty of other examples of that on display on this forum!).  We consider ourselves to be Cunard stalwarts, but nowhere near the extent of others like @WantedOnVoyage.  So, for those who have a long history with Cunard & lament the reduction of certain standards onboard, please continue to voice your concerns, as there is nothing wrong with wanting to maintain traditions! 

[Victoria2]

1 hour ago, missson1967 said:

There is no doubt the dress code has been diminished by Cunard over recent years, particularly pre & post-Covid.  We don't see how anyone who has sailed with Cunard for more than, say, 5 years, could seriously question that notion.  Whether that equates to "dumbing down" is a matter of perception.  We happen to agree with that description. 

 

Equally, we take no offence at the comments made by those longstanding Cunard customers who share the benefit of their prior experiences & certainly don't regard that as "condescending" or "arrogance" (there are, however, plenty of other examples of that on display on this forum!).  We consider ourselves to be Cunard stalwarts, but nowhere near the extent of others like @WantedOnVoyage.  So, for those who have a long history with Cunard & lament the reduction of certain standards onboard, please continue to voice your concerns, as there is nothing wrong with wanting to maintain traditions! 

Of course there's nothing wrong in lamenting the past, wanting to maintain traditions and sharing their past experiences of a Cunard even just ten years ago [we loved the three 'codes when dressing for dinner by the way].

 

Heavens above we as relative newbies dress up to and beyond the 'advisories' [no tie with jacket tho' on occasions🙂] so hopefully, maintain and will continue irrespective of what fellow passengers wear.

The arrogance and condescension comes when getting personal to other passengers views, indicating basically, they are not up to snuff because they are willing to embrace the new and do not lament the passing of the old as much as others do.

 

A good example is indicating 'we' would experience angst if the old was brought back.

 

Codswallop. 🙂

 

 

Edited Friday at 08:32 AM by Victoria2
added a smile

[missson1967]

13 minutes ago, Victoria2 said:

The arrogance and condescension comes when getting personal to other passengers views, indicating basically, they are not up to snuff because they are willing to embrace the new and do not lament the passing of the old as much as others do.

 

A good example is indicating 'we' would experience angst if the old was brought back.

We hadn't interpreted any of the posts in this thread in that manner, but as always, it's a matter of perception!

[Millieloulou]

I appreciate there are people who get on board a Cunard ship with no intention of adhearing to a dress code.My question is why choose Cunard?I still have the image in my mind of last Christmas night on board QM2 , it was red and gold theme, and not far from us was a group in Hawaiian shirts.Obviously the maitre de didn’t want to spoil their night.

[exlondoner]

1 hour ago, david63 said:

😇

I think that might be a recent announcement about increased bookings but is clouded by the addition of QA. As far as I am aware there are no published accounts for Cunard as it is part of Carnival UK.

No, you are wrong. I’m not that hopeless, I’d be able to find that. It was probably a year or two ago in a discussion of recovery (of shipping lines, not people) after Covid.

[mrbluesea]

Gala nights need to go both ways between the customer and Cunard.  I would expect an enhanced food offering on gala nights in order to make them special.  From the recent reviews I'm not sure that is the case. Hopefully I'm wrong.

[Victoria2]

14 minutes ago, missson1967 said:

We hadn't interpreted any of the posts in this thread in that manner, but as always, it's a matter of perception!

I think if you read the first paragraph in #37, and the whole post, it isn't just about this thread.

 

Condescension runs through many a dress thread and one wonders why folk think 'will I fit in'. There have been some downright unnecessary comments directed at fellow/would be fellow passengers over the years but thankfully the unpleasant ones removed.

[exlondoner]

9 minutes ago, mrbluesea said:

Gala nights need to go both ways between the customer and Cunard.  I would expect an enhanced food offering on gala nights in order to make them special.  From the recent reviews I'm not sure that is the case. Hopefully I'm wrong.

I think gala nights, at least in the Brit, probably do have an enhanced menu, though  as ever that depends on individual tastes. However I’m not sure there is a necessary connection with the dressing up. A lot of passengers genuinely seem to enjoy dressing up and the slightly different atmosphere that arises. I don’t think they feel it is a bit of a chore to be rewarded by tastier/more glamorous/more extravagant food.

[DukeBeetle24]

I'm excited about my upcoming Cunard cruises, but some online comments have raised concerns (and make me question whether we'll fit in more often than not). While I appreciate the passion for Cunard's heritage and traditions, remarks about "dumbing down" the product or criticising new passengers for not adhering to a stricter dress code, or worse - simply asking questions and giving a report on their experiences onboard - can be off-putting.

 

Cunard's core offering goes beyond the number of Gala evenings. It's the white-star service, enriching lectures, diverse itineraries, and iconic ships – all elements that contribute to a truly bucket-list experience for most, beyond the quantity of Gala evenings. A slight adjustment in Gala night frequency on a specific voyage shouldn't be misconstrued as a decline in standards.

 

The dress code itself is clear. It is "smart attire" for most evenings, similar to what you'd wear to a nice restaurant or the theatre. This caters to both long-time cruisers who cherish the formality and newcomers seeking a taste of elegance. There's room for personal interpretation within these guidelines. I don't see this as a bad thing. While a few may disregard any dress code, Cunard's core message is clear: there's room for everyone who appreciates a luxurious cruise experience, whether you're a seasoned Cunarder or a curious newcomer like myself.

 

Cunard seems to understand the need to evolve while staying true to its heritage. They value their core demographic but also recognise the importance of attracting new passengers.

[exlondoner]

3 minutes ago, DukeBeetle24 said:

I'm excited about my upcoming Cunard cruises, but some online comments have raised concerns (and make me question whether we'll fit in more often than not). While I appreciate the passion for Cunard's heritage and traditions, remarks about "dumbing down" the product or criticising new passengers for not adhering to a stricter dress code, or worse - simply asking questions and giving a report on their experiences onboard - can be off-putting.

 

Cunard's core offering goes beyond the number of Gala evenings. It's the white-star service, enriching lectures, diverse itineraries, and iconic ships – all elements that contribute to a truly bucket-list experience for most, beyond the quantity of Gala evenings. A slight adjustment in Gala night frequency on a specific voyage shouldn't be misconstrued as a decline in standards.

 

The dress code itself is clear. It is "smart attire" for most evenings, similar to what you'd wear to a nice restaurant or the theatre. This caters to both long-time cruisers who cherish the formality and newcomers seeking a taste of elegance. There's room for personal interpretation within these guidelines. I don't see this as a bad thing. While a few may disregard any dress code, Cunard's core message is clear: there's room for everyone who appreciates a luxurious cruise experience, whether you're a seasoned Cunarder or a curious newcomer like myself.

 

Cunard seems to understand the need to evolve while staying true to its heritage. They value their core demographic but also recognise the importance of attracting new passengers.

I much admire your clarity and incisiveness, which may be simply a way of saying I completely agree.

[missson1967]

40 minutes ago, Victoria2 said:

I think if you read the first paragraph in #37, and the whole post, it isn't just about this thread.

 

Condescension runs through many a dress thread and one wonders why folk think 'will I fit in'. There have been some downright unnecessary comments directed at fellow/would be fellow passengers over the years but thankfully the unpleasant ones removed.

Yes, we've seen the various threads about dress code over the years, but again, had not viewed anything as offensive within those comments (removed or otherwise), so there's yet another example of how it all comes down to perception!

[exlondoner]

3 minutes ago, missson1967 said:

Yes, we've seen the various threads about dress code over the years, but again, had not viewed anything as offensive within those comments (removed or otherwise), so there's yet another example of how it all comes down to perception!

Don’t you think the metaphor dumbing down is inherently condescending to those who have the tastes/views it applies to? I wouldn’t ever ask for it to be removed, but I don’t think it suggests that those who hold the views are held in high regard.