Dumbing Down & Dressing Down: The New Cunard?

[missson1967]

2 hours ago, Victoria2 said:

I have been lucky as I've never seen 'screw you' attire in the restaurant [QG] ever. Yes we've seen slightly flamboyant outfits [male] on occasions on a Gala evening but the clothes never detracted from the wearer as the wearers wore them with aplomb.

At the risk of inciting a torrent of 'class war' comments, in our experience, that is one of the differences between the Grills & the MDR.  We have considerable experience of both, & like you, have never seen "screw you" attire in the Grills, but we have seen it in the MDR (post-Covid & after the introduction of open dining & the relaxation of the evening dress code).

 

As an example, on one voyage last year, we were told by the celebrity speaker (we won't include any details so as to respect privacy) that he/she had been asked not to dine in QG on a Gala night, for "fear of offending other guests", as he/she did not have proper Gala night attire (because he/she had flown in from an overseas trip & boarded the ship without stopping to re-pack).  By comparison, based on what we have seen for ourselves on occasions, the Gala night dress code appears to be rather less strictly enforced in the MDR.

 

However, having said the above, we recently witnessed what we (and we think most other Cunard stalwarts) would consider to be unacceptable attire for a Gala night in PG (in particular, no tux, jacket or tie, and a fairly 'loud' shirt), and yet that was not deemed to be at risk of "offending other guests".  Same ship & effectively the same restaurant.  So, where's the consistency on Cunard's part?        

[exlondoner]

10 hours ago, Brummel said:

Having recently sailed on Holland, Princess, and Cunard, here's my two cents.

 

The dress code is the only thing that makes (made?) Cunard special. Both Princess and Holland's cuisines are equal or better; the service on all three is equally outstanding; the entertainment is far superior on Holland and Princess.

 

Cunard does not enforce the dress code and any code not enforced does not exist. You will see men in swimwear and flip-flops in the Commodore Club belly up to the bar while ship's officers stand by inert.

 

Cunard does nothing to educate its guests on the desirability and postive nature of the dress code. No, it's not so the ladies can play "dress up" and the men can "channel their inner James Bond" - sheesh! In my fourteen voyages on Cunard ships, I never saw any Insights lectures on sartorial topics and don't you'd think that would be more interesting to the kind of passengers Cunard wants to attract than yet another PowerPoint presentation by an ex-astronaut? 

 

 

 

I submit wearing Hawaiian shirts in the MDR during "Gala" nights is a way of saying "Screw you!" to your fellow passengers. Unfortunately, a sign of our slovenly times

 

I have to disagree with much of this, though my perspective is more limited, as I haven’t sailed on the other lines.

 

What makes Cunard special to me, always more than the dress code, is the sense of peace and space and serenity. I’m always baffled where all those 2,000+ passengers are, though the ones I do come across are usually courteous and friendly. I also like the calm decor, which even QA has, the classical music, the excellent libraries, and the varied lecture programme. I would not expect an organisation supplying holidays to lecture me on how to dress any more than how to clean my teeth. I would think most passengers know.
 

It is nice that people generally dress smartly, and I have never seen men in anything approaching swimwear in the Commodore Club, and can only assume it is a very rare phenomenon. And indeed what were officers, inert or otherwise, doing there? Generally speaking, people who don’t want to dress for formal night go to the buffet, and the best of luck to them. Nonetheless, on my last cruise, on poor QA which seems deemed by many to be halfway to the end of civilisation, on formal nights, my restaurant was very full, and I only saw one person (slightly but not conspicuously) inappropriately dressed.

 

Why all this gloom?

[Camberley]

I love Cunard for its more gentler, less “in your face commercial” tone and for its delightful overall experience. It’s a good middle of the road cruise company in terms of luxury experience and is refreshingly not tacky. And I love it for that.

 

For me, rather than a dress code, it is more the general attitudes of others towards others that can make or break a cruise. Smart is nice for a special meal etc and personally I like to dress smartly for the occasion - but I do so for me and who I am with rather than for the sole benefit of pleasing others or, heaven forbid, “keeping the standards going: we need to or nobody else will….”. I have no issue with someone in a suit with tie rather than a full tux and all the trimmings - including in QG: I’ve seen folk in tux, high-end gowns and really dressed to the 9s that some might say have lacked style and class, and folk less dressed up who some might consider to be very stylish. And vice-versa. Does any of that ruin things for me? No.
 

There’s a wonderful Jane Austen quote about people “starched up into seeming piety, but with heads full of something very different”. Regarding the alleged dress code downgrading etc, I personally don’t feel the need to be the sort of passenger to pass on disdain in a “this is not what Cunard is about” attitude. We’ve met a few of those vocal ones on board - not many, thankfully, as it is mostly on online forums/FB pages where they are at their most vocal etc…- and this merely makes them come across as more snobbish.

 

But despite any rumblings of downgrading of whatever it happens to be, for us a Cunard cruise is stylish in so many ways and is always a total joy.

 

 

Edited Sunday at 10:29 AM by Camberley

[david63]

45 minutes ago, missson1967 said:

we were told by the celebrity speaker (we won't include any details so as to respect privacy) that he/she had been asked not to dine in QG on a Gala night, for "fear of offending other guests", as he/she did not have proper Gala night attire (because he/she had flown in from an overseas trip & boarded the ship without stopping to re-pack)

Guest speakers know the rules and it is normally part of their contract so there is no excuse.

 

46 minutes ago, missson1967 said:

we recently witnessed what we (and we think most other Cunard stalwarts) would consider to be unacceptable attire for a Gala night in PG (in particular, no tux, jacket or tie, and a fairly 'loud' shirt),

Do you know the circumstances as to why this passenger was wearing what was considered "unacceptable attire"? Perhaps some of their luggage had gone astray or they had some medical condition that precluded them from wearing "acceptable attire"

[exlondoner]

14 minutes ago, david63 said:

Guest speakers know the rules and it is normally part of their contract so there is no excuse.

 

Do you know the circumstances as to why this passenger was wearing what was considered "unacceptable attire"? Perhaps some of their luggage had gone astray or they had some medical condition that precluded them from wearing "acceptable attire"

Interestingly the sole slightly inappropriately dressed person I mentioned earlier was a Celebrity Speaker.

 

I’m not sure there is any sort of medical condition that precludes one wearing a plain shirt, but I suppose delayed luggage might.

Edited Sunday at 10:41 AM by exlondoner

[david63]

6 minutes ago, exlondoner said:

interestingly the sole slightly inappropriately dressed person I mentioned earlier was a Celebrity Speaker.

It's possibly the attitude of "I am ...." and the rules do not apply to me and if you want me onboard again because I attract a lot of passengers then I will do as I wish - which is an approach many "celebrities" (normally B class and below) have these days.

[exlondoner]

7 minutes ago, david63 said:

It's possibly the attitude of "I am ...." and the rules do not apply to me and if you want me onboard again because I attract a lot of passengers then I will do as I wish - which is an approach many "celebrities" (normally B class and below) have these days.

I wondered if there might actually be some sort of medical condition connected to a swelled head that made it impossible to tie a tie. In fact they don’t actually attract any passengers per se, as nobody knows which cruises they are going to be on.

[david63]

5 minutes ago, exlondoner said:

In fact they don’t actually attract any passengers per se, as nobody knows which cruises they are going to be on.

I know that, you know that, but do they know that?

[Tattycoram]

About the lectures (which we're looking forward to), someone above wrote they appreciate lectures by retired astronauts "Rather that than a lecture on clothes, unless it was a history lecture of clothing through the ages"

 

If Cunard reads this, I'm putting my vote in for Amber Butchart, a fashion historian who has given wonderful documentaries on everything from the Jazz Age to the Black Prince's tabard.  She is also a forensic fashion consultant (I title I think I just made up) for the police in murder inquiries.

[Victoria2]

2 hours ago, Millieloulou said:

And how long before “different strokes” changes the dress code on Cunard for ever? Are the changes coming or are they already here ?

My 'different strokes' was more addressed to insight lectures but could be addressed to the slightly 'outré' outfits which didn't offend us at all but which, when analysed, fitted the code of the day even if multi coloured evening suits were a departure from trad. black. 😀

 

The traditionalists will say Cunard is going down the pan, because of the 'looser' [for want of a better word] attitude to dress. Those like us who enjoy the complete package including dressing for dinner will say the company is moving with the times to keep up with the ever changing world of travel.

 

Read it as you will and book accordingly.

 

 

 

Edited Sunday at 11:27 AM by Victoria2
repetition

[exlondoner]

27 minutes ago, exlondoner said:

I wondered if there might actually be some sort of medical condition connected to a swelled head that made it impossible to tie a tie. In fact they don’t actually attract any passengers per se, as nobody knows which cruises they are going to be on.

Sorry, I suspect swelled should be swollen.

[S1971]

I'm intrigued as to why so many people worry about what others are wearing, it has no impact on me whatsoever.

 

Cunard control's the dress code, if they are not enforcing it then so be it.

 

Lifes to short to worry about how others dress for dinner.

[foodsvcmgr]

Having travelled HAL, Princess, and Celebrity I can assure you their food is inferior to Cunard, not drastically but certainly in the quality of ingredients.

As far as dress, all have Formal nights or the equivalent and none enforce a dress code.

Yet on Cunard 90+ percent of men will be formally attired where on the others you will see a handful of tuxes at best.

[missson1967]

3 hours ago, david63 said:

Guest speakers know the rules and it is normally part of their contract so there is no excuse.

 

Do you know the circumstances as to why this passenger was wearing what was considered "unacceptable attire"? Perhaps some of their luggage had gone astray or they had some medical condition that precluded them from wearing "acceptable attire"

The point of the post was to highlight our experience, on occasions, of:

 

(i) the difference in dress code compliance between the Grills & the MDR; and

(ii) the inconsistency in enforcement of the code by Cunard, even within the Grills.  

[Tattycoram]

2 hours ago, S1971 said:

I'm intrigued as to why so many people worry about what others are wearing, it has no impact on me whatsoever.

 

Cunard control's the dress code, if they are not enforcing it then so be it.

 

Lifes to short to worry about how others dress for dinner.

I partially sympathize, because I think I too am of a temperament not to fuss too much about other people.  But I also slightly disagree, for reasons that aren't wholly logical but seem, in practice, indeed to have an impact on my larger experience.

 

For instance, I'm a teacher (mostly literature, now high school).  On the one hand, in the grand scheme of things I don't actually care all that much about my students' spelling; I care about their ideas--and yet the attention to detail that comes with good spelling also feeds into their ability to think specifically rather than vaguely.  (I'm excepting children with dyslexia.)  

 

To take one more instance:  I went to a college with some formal rules.  In all classes, we were required to address each other formally (e.g. Mr. and Ms. Surname; our tutors were addressed in the same way so there was no formal distinction of rank).  While during day-time classes you could dress casually, there was also a dress code for the twice-weekly evening seminars:  jacket and tie for men, nice something for women.  Sometimes, there might be jeans on your bottom half under the table, but above the table we were all aboveboard.  In practice these rules had, I think, big influences on the kinds of intellectual conversations--indeed, often disagreements--we had.  The extra effort to dress for seminars translated into an elevated sense of responsibility for the success of that enterprise.  I could argue passionately against Mr. Smith in class and then go out for a friendly drink with my friend John afterwards.  

 

So (although I have yet to go on my first Cunard cruise--a week and a day to go!) I anticipate that one effect of more-or-less everyone getting cleaned up for dinner and gussied up for a gala is that we all are buoyed up by our joint effort and the atmosphere that creates.  It's an intangible and immeasurable feeling, sure, but it might well have an impact on you!

[exlondoner]

3 minutes ago, Tattycoram said:

I partially sympathize, because I think I too am of a temperament not to fuss too much about other people.  But I also slightly disagree, for reasons that aren't wholly logical but seem, in practice, indeed to have an impact on my larger experience.

 

For instance, I'm a teacher (mostly literature, now high school).  On the one hand, in the grand scheme of things I don't actually care all that much about my students' spelling; I care about their ideas--and yet the attention to detail that comes with good spelling also feeds into their ability to think specifically rather than vaguely.  (I'm excepting children with dyslexia.)  

 

To take one more instance:  I went to a college with some formal rules.  In all classes, we were required to address each other formally (e.g. Mr. and Ms. Surname; our tutors were addressed in the same way so there was no formal distinction of rank).  While during day-time classes you could dress casually, there was also a dress code for the twice-weekly evening seminars:  jacket and tie for men, nice something for women.  Sometimes, there might be jeans on your bottom half under the table, but above the table we were all aboveboard.  In practice these rules had, I think, big influences on the kinds of intellectual conversations--indeed, often disagreements--we had.  The extra effort to dress for seminars translated into an elevated sense of responsibility for the success of that enterprise.  I could argue passionately against Mr. Smith in class and then go out for a friendly drink with my friend John afterwards.  

 

So (although I have yet to go on my first Cunard cruise--a week and a day to go!) I anticipate that one effect of more-or-less everyone getting cleaned up for dinner and gussied up for a gala is that we all are buoyed up by our joint effort and the atmosphere that creates.  It's an intangible and immeasurable feeling, sure, but it might well have an impact on you!

Interestingly there is research showing that children who wear school uniforms do better in their GCSEs, though I think that may be more to do with the nature of schools that enforce it, rather than some magical property of the fabric. 😀

[3rdGenCunarder]

6 minutes ago, Tattycoram said:

So (although I have yet to go on my first Cunard cruise--a week and a day to go!) I anticipate that one effect of more-or-less everyone getting cleaned up for dinner and gussied up for a gala is that we all are buoyed up by our joint effort and the atmosphere that creates.  It's an intangible and immeasurable feeling, sure, but it might well have an impact on you!

 

Yes! It creates a special ambiance. That's part of what I have come to expect from an evening on Cunard. I hope you have a wonderful cruise. And I hope you post pictures of your daughter's outfits (or just the outfits on a hanger if you don't want to post her picture). I want to see what that Edwardian walking skirt looks like!

 

 

[3rdGenCunarder]

4 minutes ago, exlondoner said:

Interestingly there is research showing that children who wear school uniforms do better in their GCSEs, though I think that may be more to do with the nature of schools that enforce it, rather than some magical property of the fabric. 😀

 

I think the uniforms reduce distractions at school and stress over having "the right outfit."

[3rdGenCunarder]

5 hours ago, exlondoner said:

I have to disagree with much of this, though my perspective is more limited, as I haven’t sailed on the other lines.

 

What makes Cunard special to me, always more than the dress code, is the sense of peace and space and serenity. I’m always baffled where all those 2,000+ passengers are, though the ones I do come across are usually courteous and friendly. I also like the calm decor, which even QA has, the classical music, the excellent libraries, and the varied lecture programme. I would not expect an organisation supplying holidays to lecture me on how to dress any more than how to clean my teeth. I would think most passengers know.

 

I agree that Cunard is special in more ways than the dress code, and your examples are part of what keeps me coming back to Cunard. But dressing for dinner is part of it, too. 

 

Your last sentence shows that, indeed, you haven't sailed on other lines. Not the ones mentioned in the post you quoted, but there are some lines I struck off my list because they attracted passengers who didn't know how to dress. Or didn't care. Or enjoyed the "screw you" outfit at dinner. 

Edited Sunday at 02:48 PM by 3rdGenCunarder

[exlondoner]

7 minutes ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

 

I think the uniforms reduce distractions at school and stress over having "the right outfit."

Up to a point. Furthermore, if a child is rebellious, it is much easier for everyone if it rebels by, say, folding the top of its skirt over, until nearly the whole of its thighs is visible, than by throwing scissors at the teacher. A win for everyone.

[exlondoner]

3 minutes ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

 

A agree that Cunard is special in more ways than the dress code, and your examples are part of what keeps me coming back to Cunard. But dressing for dinner is part of it, too. 

 

Your last sentence shows that, indeed, you haven't sailed on other lines. Not the ones mentioned in the post you quoted, but there are some lines I struck off my list because they attracted passengers who didn't know how to dress. Or didn't care. Or enjoyed the "screw you" outfit at dinner. 

I suspect those lines might also be far too loud for me.

[3rdGenCunarder]

7 hours ago, Victoria2 said:

I have been lucky as I've never seen 'screw you' attire in the restaurant [QG] ever. Yes we've seen slightly flamboyant outfits [male] on occasions on a Gala evening but the clothes never detracted from the wearer as the wearers wore them with aplomb. We loved them and looked forward to the next outfit and here I have to add what others wear has very little bearing on our own enjoyment.

 

What others wear can be very entertaining. I have seen some gentlemen on Gala evenings with flamboyant dinner jackets, and they always brought a smile. And the men in kilts always look dashing. 

 

Back in the days of QE2, when we sailed with friends the Chart Room was our place to sit with a pre-dinner cocktail. We would watch the queue of people go by on their way to the Queens Room for one of the cocktail parties. Dorothy Parker said, "If you haven't anything nice to say about anyone, come sit by me." But for all that BFF and I joked about being the Fashion Police, nearly all of our comments were positive. "Ohh, I want that dress!"  "Look at her, she looks gorgeous." "I would wear that if I were 20 years and 20 pounds younger." 

[3rdGenCunarder]

8 minutes ago, exlondoner said:

I suspect those lines might also be far too loud for me.

 

Yes, that's another problem. That's why we sailed Princess only once. Liked the ship but hated the fact that there was no quiet space except our teeny balcony. I recall seeking refuge on our balcony on a Royal Caribbean ship, too. 

[exlondoner]

3 minutes ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

 

What others wear can be very entertaining. I have seen some gentlemen on Gala evenings with flamboyant dinner jackets, and they always brought a smile. And the men in kilts always look dashing. 

 

Back in the days of QE2, when we sailed with friends the Chart Room was our place to sit with a pre-dinner cocktail. We would watch the queue of people go by on their way to the Queens Room for one of the cocktail parties. Dorothy Parker said, "If you haven't anything nice to say about anyone, come sit by me." But for all that BFF and I joked about being the Fashion Police, nearly all of our comments were positive. "Ohh, I want that dress!"  "Look at her, she looks gorgeous." "I would wear that if I were 20 years and 20 pounds younger." 

Do you ever notice two women in the same dress, no I don’t mean that, they wouldn’t fit, I mean identical dresses?

[3rdGenCunarder]

8 minutes ago, exlondoner said:

Do you ever notice two women in the same dress, no I don’t mean that, they wouldn’t fit, I mean identical dresses?

 

No, I never did. That could descend to "who wore it best?" discussions like the trashy magazines I read at the hairdresser!

Edited Sunday at 03:01 PM by 3rdGenCunarder