Captains wife's statement about tips

[cruisePRN]

One of the biggest misconceptions -- and quite possibly this is what leads to folks' reluctance to tip -- is that cruise passengers are shouldering the paychecks for crew members. But I suggest you don't listen to all the stories of such poverty-stricken crew members with low salaries and terrible lives. When tipping, you are not paying for every crewmember onboard the ship. Each position on the ship is paid according to the industry rates for that position. So, for instance, a waiter can earn between $2,000 and $3,200 per month (while a busboy will pull in $1,200 - $1,800). A cabin steward's monthly salary is anywhere between $1,600 and $2,600. A massage therapist will rake in $2,000 - $3,000. (Note: As an FYI, average salaries for cruise staffers who don't earn tips include $3,000 - $7,000 for a cruise director and $1,500 - $2,200 for a social hostess).

http://www.cruisecritic.com/features/articles.cfm?ID=261

 

TAX FREE FOLKS

[BrooklynGirl2]

Just need to comment here that her statement is VERY confusing. I think all cruise lines pay differently, depending on if tipping is automatically included. What cruise line is she talking about? Celebrity? When she refers to a waiter earning between $2000 and $3200 a month does she mean INCLUDING tips? Or BEFORE tips? I find it very hard to believe that waiters on X are paid $2000 a month "salary". Quite a few have told me differently and I believe them, especially as my dh used to work as a waiter on a cruise line.

[babylene]

What stood out to me is the suggestion of a gift of a Mont Blanc pen. That's some gift!

[woodofpine]

The captains wife is not always terribly coherent. The compensation cited by her concerning service staff is the typical take in tips. The lines pay service staff about $40-50 per month (plus room and board in the hull) the rest is tips. After one contract they typically get their airfare to and from the port of contract star and finish.

 

That said, they are generally compensated well (extremely well for their country of origin) and they bust their butts typically 12 hours a day 6 days (sometimes 7) per week for 8-9 months straight.

 

I not yet been on a cruise where service "warranted" deducting from the suggested tip. Complaints I've had are directed toward the hotel managers rather than by short changing the soldiers.

[cruisintwinsmom]

What stood out to me is the suggestion of a gift of a Mont Blanc pen. That's some gift!

 

Had to chuckle at the pen thrown in amist the t-shirts and keychains also. Did find the article interesting. Especially the comment about pretipping.

[cruisePRN]

I find the recommended tipping schedule to be more then fair and couldn't imagine not giving thesuggested amount and rounding up. I also have never found I needed to deduct because service is always been good. Let's assume that $3000 a month is with tips, that's a fair amount for many of these third world countries and would a good life style, and I don't begrudge them any of it, I merely found the article interesting.

[chasetf]

Just need to comment here that her statement is VERY confusing. I think all cruise lines pay differently, depending on if tipping is automatically included. What cruise line is she talking about? Celebrity? When she refers to a waiter earning between $2000 and $3200 a month does she mean INCLUDING tips? Or BEFORE tips? I find it very hard to believe that waiters on X are paid $2000 a month "salary". Quite a few have told me differently and I believe them, especially as my dh used to work as a waiter on a cruise line.

I thought it was clear to me. She said they "earn" which I interpret to be "including tips".

[Moeve]

I would take that comment with a pinch of salt since this book is not anything very recent and having been out there myself all I can say is those were the days.......Things have change quite a lot since the cruiselines have started using crews from poorer countries in Eastern Europe and the Far East.

[YYC F/A]

With several friends working in the cruise industry, I can confirm that for the majority of the main stream cruise lines, salaries for service personnel including waiters, assistant waiters, cabin attendants etc. is pegged at a very low rate - a nominal amount of around $100 or so a month (exact amount varies from line to line).

 

Tipping/Gratuities make up the pay for these personnel. No tips = no pay.

 

The OP in her quote indicates that with tips, these personnel seem to take home quite 'healthy' salaries - and tax free nonetheless!

 

However - 2 things. First - with the exception of staff working for NCL America (whom fall under US labour laws), cruise staff (including most officer grades) do NOT get paid for their time off when they go home. So, given that you might typically work anything from a 3-6month stint, then go home for 6-8 weeks, that period is UNPAID. In effect, 3 months, sometimes 4 months of the year are without pay. So you need to multiply up that monthly amount and divide it by the total including the unpaid months.

 

Second - staff are still required to declare their earnings in their home country. Tax laws vary from country to country, but here in Canada for instance, "ALL world earnings" must be declared and tax paid... As someone who worked overseas and earned 'tax free' salaries - I can confirm first hand that I ended up paying tax on much of these so called 'out of country tax free' earnings.

 

There's a flip side to every coin.

 

An on one final note... that waiter that makes between $2000-$3200 a month which in REAL terms equates to about $1,333 - $2,133 a month when you factor in the 'unpaid' time... that waiter must work 70, sometimes more, hours a week. That works out to between $4.62 and $7.39 an hour. Hardly 'riches'.

[cruisintwinsmom]

With several friends working in the cruise industry, I can confirm that for the majority of the main stream cruise lines, salaries for service personnel including waiters, assistant waiters, cabin attendants etc. is pegged at a very low rate - a nominal amount of around $100 or so a month (exact amount varies from line to line).

 

Tipping/Gratuities make up the pay for these personnel. No tips = no pay.

 

The OP in her quote indicates that with tips, these personnel seem to take home quite 'healthy' salaries - and tax free nonetheless!

 

However - 2 things. First - with the exception of staff working for NCL America (whom fall under US labour laws), cruise staff (including most officer grades) do NOT get paid for their time off when they go home. So, given that you might typically work anything from a 3-6month stint, then go home for 6-8 weeks, that period is UNPAID. In effect, 3 months, sometimes 4 months of the year are without pay. So you need to multiply up that monthly amount and divide it by the total including the unpaid months.

 

Second - staff are still required to declare their earnings in their home country. Tax laws vary from country to country, but here in Canada for instance, "ALL world earnings" must be declared and tax paid... As someone who worked overseas and earned 'tax free' salaries - I can confirm first hand that I ended up paying tax on much of these so called 'out of country tax free' earnings.

 

There's a flip side to every coin.

 

An on one final note... that waiter that makes between $2000-$3200 a month which in REAL terms equates to about $1,333 - $2,133 a month when you factor in the 'unpaid' time... that waiter must work 70, sometimes more, hours a week. That works out to between $4.62 and $7.39 an hour. Hardly 'riches'.

 

Thank you for the addition info. We have always tipped our waiters and servers more than the recommended amount as they have truly given outstanding service (knock on wood). Sometimes we would like tip those that aren't on the tipping schedule because of there "personalized" service--the guys/gals who serve us at the pasta or waffle stations for example, but didn't know if it was appropriate. It is always fun when you pass the same cabin stewards who are taking care of the room down the hall and who never fail to have a big smile and hello.

We have never written a letter from home (may do that in the future), but have made sure to use the names of the workers from other areas of the ship who have done an exceptional job on the comment cards.

[cruisintwinsmom]

Just need to comment here that her statement is VERY confusing. I think all cruise lines pay differently, depending on if tipping is automatically included. What cruise line is she talking about? Celebrity? When she refers to a waiter earning between $2000 and $3200 a month does she mean INCLUDING tips? Or BEFORE tips? I find it very hard to believe that waiters on X are paid $2000 a month "salary". Quite a few have told me differently and I believe them, especially as my dh used to work as a waiter on a cruise line.

 

I thought it was confusing also because when she said "A cabin steward's monthly salary is anywhere between $1,600 and $2,600", then I wasn't sure if that was before tips or not; as I think of salary as someting paid by the employer. On the other hand, earnings I see as tips + salary. This isn't meant to parce (spelling) the words, but it does connote a big difference mentally between the lines paying $100/week versus $1600/week.

 

All in all it was interesting to see what her opinion is regarding tipping, especially when the subject of tipping can set up such heated debates on the boards.

 

Happy Sailing!

[RLM77]

 

Do the cruise staff give up their health insurance (such as it is) when the are on furlough, as well as their salary? :eek:

[Longboysfan]

With any and all crew members, including those who are not in the tipping category, take a few minutes after arriving home to write an accommodation letter. Send it directly to the company's corporate office, letting them know about the individuals who stood out to you. This goes a long way in showing corporate headquarters that onboard there most certainly are staffers who go beyond the normal call of duty.

 

Believe it or not, a letter, too, is a tip.

 

This is one of the things I always do.

Just a short follow up letter to the home office on my trip.

Who and what stood out.

 

This goes into the personell folder of the person(s). It may get them another contract.

[ocngypz]

Officers' salaries are paid based upon their country of origin.

 

The salaries stated for CD are a bit on the high side.

 

The former social hostess position paid $2000 a month salary.

 

$40,000 USD per annum for a excellent waiter is not unheard of. This is gratuity based.

 

70 hours per week is a standard contract. Many work more.

 

With standard contract rotations for crew, the typical months "on duty" per year are 9 months. Many elect to extend contracts or are "held over" due to staffing shortages. I know one butler who works 11 months a year at his own request.

[BrooklynGirl2]

"Each position on the ship is paid according to the industry rates for that position. So, for instance, a waiter can earn between $2,000 and $3,200 per month (while a busboy will pull in $1,200 - $1,800)."

 

This is the part that is written in confusing language. She is almost implying that the cruise lines are paying "industry rates" to waiters/busboys which as she states are between $2,000 and $3200 per month for waiters. She needs to add the caveat that these earnings include gratuities otherwise new cruisers will be under the misconception that these crew are well paid by the cruise lines, which we all know is not true. Waiters on X have told me they are paid around $50 week. The rest is tips.

 

Personally, I didn't like the tone of that entire paragraph, insinuating that the crew gives us sob stories about their terrible, poverty stricken lives to inspire greater tips. That has never been the case with us. And yes, regarding service personnel on board we pax DO pay the majority of their salary with our tips. And let me say that I do not begrudge tipping in any way. I am happy to tip for the service provided and as we have always received excellent service on X we always tip above the recommended amount. We also fill out the comment cards and follow-up with a letter once we arrive home.

[Host Star]

What stood out to me is the suggestion of a gift of a Mont Blanc pen. That's some gift!

 

ROFL... anyone want to buy me a little gift,, a Mont Blanc pen will do

[naked]

As other's have noted, this article might give some the false impression that the cruise lines are paying your waiter $3200 a month before tips.

 

Nothing could be further from the truth.

 

Here is an outside source that confirms what different staff memebers can expect to earn. (Note that this source benefits from showing the best earnings possible so if these numbers were 'before tips' that fact would be noted.)

 

As I posted in another thread: Let's break this down: A Waiter works about 14-18 hours a day, 7 days a week. (14hours/day x 30 days in a month = 420 hours) At $2000 a month, that's about $4.75/hour. At $3200 they make about $7.62/hour.

 

What the article doesn't make clear is that the $3200 figure INCLUDES TIPS. Note the wording: "a waiter can earn between". The earnings are wages plus tips.

 

Now, if a waiter is getting $3.50 in tips from 10 people each day, that's just over $1000. So their wages are as low as $1000-$2000 a month. These numbers are conservative and don't factor in the fact that some (many) tip more than the standard amount.

 

Given these figures, it's clear that between 33% and 50% of what a waiter and busboy's earnings are paid is from our tips.

 

Here is the shocking part:

 

Most waiters serve 20 (two seatings), not 10 people per night so their tips really add up to about $2000 per month or more! This confirms what other have posted about the cruise line only playing them $50 a month or so.

 

70% to 95% of their income is from tips.

[YYC F/A]

Do the cruise staff give up their health insurance (such as it is) when the are on furlough, as well as their salary? :eek:

 

Service personnel such as Waiters, Cabin Attendants etc. do not normally get any health insurance benefits for use in their country of origin. They are insured for industrial health and safety at work, but as soon as they 'sign off' at the end of a contract, their insurance ends.

 

I'm not sure on the policy for shipboard people who are US citizens, but I have a friend who is a Guest Relations Manager for HAL and he has to pay his own insurance here in Canada, and friends who are Asst Pursers in the UK also get no benefits.

 

That said, most countries outside the US have some form of public health or low cost insurance, so it's probably not such a big deal, and the number of US citizens working on cruise ships is, proportionately very low. Think about your last cruise - how many of the Spa, Activities, Cruise/Entertainment and Guest Relations/Front of House Officer roles were held by Canadians and Brits!

[chasetf]

......Here is the shocking part: Most waiters serve 20 (two seatings), not 10 people per night so their tips really add up to about $2000 per month or more! This confirms what other have posted about the cruise line only playing them $50 a month or so.

70% to 95% of their income is from tips.

I by and large agree with you analysis. Only point I would make is I think the 10 people per night per seating is low. Most of our waiters cover two 8 person and another 2 or 4 person table. So I would put the figure at 18-20 per seating. Now there are the "stiffs" who will "beat" them out of the $3.50, but for an average and above waiter, that would be more than offset by the extra "above the suggested" tips. ;)

 

As far a another comment about replacing the wait staff with "third world" citizens to pay them less, this I do not believe. The staff we see now are a real cross section from around the world. There is no way they would pay a Phillipino less than a Mexican and less than a Romanian and less than an Italian.

[Jumbie]

With several friends working in the cruise industry

 

With a girlfriend working on X, I can dispute some of your statements.

 

However - 2 things. First - with the exception of staff working for NCL America (whom fall under US labour laws), cruise staff (including most officer grades) do NOT get paid for their time off when they go home.

 

I can't speak for many positions - some of the bigger ones (in terms of depending on tips) such as waiters, cabin attendants, etc. but I know for a fact that some positions [on X] get 1/2 salaries on their time off.

 

So, given that you might typically work anything from a 3-6month stint, then go home for 6-8 weeks, that period is UNPAID. In effect, 3 months, sometimes 4 months of the year are without pay.

 

That is inaccurate (for X anyway) for at least some of their paid workers.

 

Second - staff are still required to declare their earnings in their home country. Tax laws vary from country to country, but here in Canada for instance, "ALL world earnings" must be declared and tax paid... As someone who worked overseas and earned 'tax free' salaries - I can confirm first hand that I ended up paying tax on much of these so called 'out of country tax free' earnings.

 

And it is my understanding that while it is required barely anyone every does it and most consider their earnings to be "tax free".

 

There's a flip side to every coin.

 

An on one final note... that waiter that makes between $2000-$3200 a month which in REAL terms equates to about $1,333 - $2,133 a month when you factor in the 'unpaid' time... that waiter must work 70, sometimes more, hours a week. That works out to between $4.62 and $7.39 an hour. Hardly 'riches'.

 

I do not dispute that waiters and cabin stewards especially work VERY long and hard hours (I commonly hear 12-18 hour days) and I do not know for certain if they get paid during time off although I am 95% sure that they do not, but when you "factor in" that they likely do not declare/pay taxes, do not pay for room and board, etc. they make a relatively good living if you're thinking purely in terms of money.

 

My g/f has calculated that if she stayed in Canada (she's on the ship for the travel experience rather than needing the money) she'd need to work an $80k job (Cdn dollars) to save as much as she does on board. And let's just say that $2k is more than she makes per month.

 

Oh, and for completeness' sake, she does NOT work for tips although that does not change relative earnings.

[Moeve]

Jumble

I am sure that you are just not informed BUT most other countries do require citizens to pay taxes on ALL incomes regardless of where in the world it is earned. As long as your country of residence is xyz well then im most cases xyz wants you to pay taxes. It is nolonger possible to declare the ships register country as the country of residence (it used to be so but that is looong gone) In most contries if you get caught not declaring those takings not only do get a hefty fine but in some countries they lock you up and throw away the key... Try that with Uncle Sam and lets see what happens

[Jumbie]

I never said it wasn't required. I just said that it wasn't done.

 

Or certainly not done accurately. Do you think there is a way for them to track how much people get paid in tips? That is not declared on any payment slip. Well, I guess it could be reported for those who have tips charged by guests to their accounts. But cash tips? I don't think so.

 

Of course, some people may follow the law (most likely those with fixed salaries and paymentt stubs/statements/slips; in other words with "trackable, recorded income") but I don't think that most do.

 

As well, not many people have to try with "Uncle Sam" as not many cruise workers are from the US.

[cruisePRN]

Although the amount suggested in the article is probably with tips the $3200 a month INCOME (regardless of source) is a decent living in most countries. I'm sick of hearing all the whining about how little they make. They earn every cent of their income and work long hours but they are rewarded via income. As for the argument that they have no income for a few months when they take leave, do teachers here in the states get paid for summer break?

If everyone gives at least the suggested tipping amounts the staff would be happy. I can't believe anyone would give less unless something went drastically wrong.

[flagger]

Jumble

I am sure that you are just not informed BUT most other countries do require citizens to pay taxes on ALL incomes regardless of where in the world it is earned. As long as your country of residence is xyz well then im most cases xyz wants you to pay taxes. It is nolonger possible to declare the ships register country as the country of residence (it used to be so but that is looong gone) In most contries if you get caught not declaring those takings not only do get a hefty fine but in some countries they lock you up and throw away the key... Try that with Uncle Sam and lets see what happens

I am also sure that you are also just not informed, but a US citizen can exclude up to $80K in income when working outside of the US for 330 days in a 12 month consecutive period. A spouse can claim up to an additional $80K. There are also allowance for foreign housing expenses.

 

http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/international/article/0,,id=96817,00.html

[flagger]

Although the amount suggested in the article is probably with tips the $3200 a month INCOME (regardless of source) is a decent living in most countries. I'm sick of hearing all the whining about how little they make. They earn every cent of their income and work long hours but they are rewarded via income. As for the argument that they have no income for a few months when they take leave, do teachers here in the states get paid for summer break?

There is more confirmation in this blog entry:

 

http://crewoffice.blogspot.com/2006/03/employee-treatment-stiffing-on-tipping.html

 

It is also true that some crew get paid very small wages. HOWEVER! They are positions that get paid out of the gratuity pool, and the gratuity pool pays them very well. In fact most people who are part of the gratuity pool ( as an officer I am not part of it) get paid MORE than I do, and I get paid pretty well.