Summit Alaskan cruise disappointment (MERGER OF 5 THREADS ON THIS TOPIC)

[Andipanda1]

1. I was on the cruise.
   
2. I know of no one who "stiffed" the staff, all of whom were great.
   
3. FYI, many "non-protesting" passengers were quite rude to those of us whom they saw as upsetting the status quo.
   
4. Let's try to avoid postings like this and keep this thread on-track, please.

 

How was the posting off track? Why should it be avoided? It was a dissenting opinion, nothing more. In addition, this is a public message board.

[Andipanda1]

To me the most important issue is how Celebrity failed to deal effectively with the passengers on the cruise as opposed to the history of these ships. What I would have expected is Celebrity should have a contingency plan to deal with a predictable problem. Celebrity should respond quickly and in a generous manner. That way most people will accept their fate and try to make the best of it. Celebrity failed on this occasion by all reports. This is not a game of trivial pursuit, but reasonable passenger expectations when a cruise goes bad, really bad.

 

Griswalds

 

What, in your eyes, would a contingency plan be? Looking at it in terms of the contract that was signed (by the US passengers, at least) Celebrity (1) offered to hear the passengers out and (2) offered them $200 per stateroom and then (3) the 30% off a future cruise. The pax ate, slept, and used the facilities on the ship. The contract does not guarantee ports, something you already know.

 

As for the point that the poster brought up about the M-class ships, IMHO, if I was hosting a group cruise for 24 people, I would have heavily researched the ships I was considering before I booked.

[aarrcc2]

#2. Management purposely docked the ship in Vancouver at an commercial facility in the middle of no where to avoid expected publicity coverage. Baggage, transportation, embarkation was a disaster. This punished the 1200 non-mutiny travelers such as ourselves to protect their selfish interests. We had no where to go. Our planned day of touring Vancouver was spent sitting at the airport for 6 hours.

 

Captncruise:

We have sailed to Alaska 4 times (NCL, 2 Princess, 1 Celebrity) including the 5/7/06 Summit; only our Princess cruises departed/returned to Canada Place. The others used the Ballyntine Pier. I doubt this had anything to do with Celebrity wishing to avoid publicity, however, during our cruise, we constantly heard these remarks that blamed Celebrity management for every deviation from passenger expectations.

 

We, too, were disappointed to miss Sitka and Seattle but we knew we still were going to see the major sights of Southeast Alaska. We previously have seen Ketchikan, Juneau, Skagway in pouring rain and the glaciers and Inside Passage in heavy fog. One cruise did not even include a glimpse of a glacier due to heavy icebergs in the fjord. This trip we enjoyed beautiful weather at every major port, glacier, and because we waited until the fog lifted, the Inside Passage.

 

An Alaskan cruise (or any, for that matter), may not live up to all passenger expectations of that glorious state for many reasons, especially weather. My cruise was most negatively impacted by the attitude of the complaining passengers and their comments to us when we simply expressed: "We don't feel the way you do." We were told "We all need to fight in this together." We just wanted to enjoy the wonderful weather and the beautiful surroundings, not stage a revolt!

 

My opinion was that the passengers (unreasonably) wanted a free cruise for the cruise not having met their expectations. If that is not true, what would have made the complaining passengers on the Summit, 5/7/06 cruise, satisfied? I'm really curious.

[jimc_usa]

I started to read these forums before my first cruise to learn about cruising, so I wouldn't miss anything and regret it later. I have continued to read because I continue to cruise. One thing I have learned about almost all the cruise lines - they are not registered in the US and as such are not answerable to most common US laws. Is this correct?

[florida_cruiser]

As for the point that the poster brought up about the M-class ships, IMHO, if I was hosting a group cruise for 24 people, I would have heavily researched the ships I was considering before I booked.

 

And then after doing the research I presume you would recommend that they not book the cruise due to its past history!! You can't have it both ways - you either recommend the ship wholeheartidly or not at all - which is it for you?

[mctrekkie]

1. I was on the cruise.
   
2. I know of no one who "stiffed" the staff, all of whom were great.
   
3. FYI, many "non-protesting" passengers were quite rude to those of us whom they saw as upsetting the status quo.
   
4. Let's try to avoid postings like this and keep this thread on-track, please.

 

Different opinions are also "on-track, please". Terri's question is wholly reasonable and appropriate considering the title of this thread.

[naked]

What, in your eyes, would a contingency plan be? Looking at it in terms of the contract that was signed (by the US passengers, at least) Celebrity (1) offered to hear the passengers out and (2) offered them $200 per stateroom and then (3) the 30% off a future cruise. The pax ate, slept, and used the facilities on the ship. The contract does not guarantee ports, something you already know.

 

As for the point that the poster brought up about the M-class ships, IMHO, if I was hosting a group cruise for 24 people, I would have heavily researched the ships I was considering before I booked.

BINGO! Andi gets it. Celebrity did exactly what they have done on the past--and even more for these pax. They cruised as long as they contracted for. If the group leader had done his or her homework, they could have known ahead of time exactly what they might expect if the problems came back.

[Andipanda1]

And then after doing the research I presume you would recommend that they not book the cruise due to its past history!! You can't have it both ways - you either recommend the ship wholeheartidly or not at all - which is it for you?

 

If you had fully read my post you would have understood what I was saying. If I did the research then I would come to whatever conclusion I had to. My point was that anyone who was putting together a group cruise should have researched the ships, as Naked suggested in his post.

 

As for me, researched the ship I'm about to go on...the good, the bad, and the ugly. I chose my cruise based on the ship and the line. I also understand the terms of my cruise contract.

 

And I'm no cheerleader, this is my first X cruise, so I don't understand your last sentence at all.

 

Next.

[Ilovefuncruises]

The Celebrity loyalists put up with whatever is dished out by the company. But luckily, they are a an extreme minority on any cruise.

It is sad that people who experience events on a cruise are told that they are flat out wrong by the loyalists back on land. I hope the victims will pursue a proper resolution so that Celebrity and other lines will not continue to lie and cheat its customers.

 

People, let's not forget that there are two major cruise lines in the world that control the majority of the industry. Royal Caribbean & Celebrity are the same company. Carnival Corporation owns Princess, Holland, Costa, Windstar, Seabourn, Cunard & Carnival. That's 10 cruise lines between 2 companies. There's your problem!

 

If anyone thinks that these companies aren't out to screw you in some way, then you are all nuts. It's all about the money, always has been - always will be.

 

As someone in the industry, I can tell you that the cruise lines are not your friends they all lie and cheat. These problems exist on every line, every ship in some form or another. In the big scheme of things, it's a tiny portion of sailings that are affected, indeed unfortunate if you have to experience one of them, but millions of people cruise every year without problem and enjoy the experience.

 

One thing I do know, is that a few people - fed by anger, can easily influence and scare many others. I think there is enough blame to go around on both sides of this story.

[smeyer418]

I started to read these forums before my first cruise to learn about cruising, so I wouldn't miss anything and regret it later. I have continued to read because I continue to cruise. One thing I have learned about almost all the cruise lines - they are not registered in the US and as such are not answerable to most common US laws. Is this correct?

 

Most shipping issues are covered by maritime law not common law anyway. Maritime law applies including most issues of which law applies. Common law which is generally English common law as intrepreted by the various US states, does somewhat apply but most common law has been replaced by statutory law(laws written by the legislature) to replace common law. Common law is the history of decisions and rules that arise from previous cases. Most cruise contracts state the Florida, Federal Maritime law and Florida courts(both state and Federal) will hear and decide the matter.

 

Except for ship employees, rarely does the place the ship is registered have anything to do with which law applies in cases like this. Choice of law is a one of the more complex issues taught in law schools.

[naked]

It should be noted that recent problems on carnival--including disembarking 14 hours late (that might cause a few to miss flights) and the following cruise not embarking until 2AM the following day, followed by the usual problems of not being able to cruise at full speed, yielded a $25 credit for Carnival and 2 free drink coupons.

[Keith1010]

People, let's not forget that there are two major cruise lines in the world that control the majority of the industry. Royal Caribbean & Celebrity are the same company. Carnival Corporation owns Princess, Holland, Costa, Windstar, Seabourn, Cunard & Carnival. That's 10 cruise lines between 2 companies. There's your problem!

 

If anyone thinks that these companies aren't out to screw you in some way, then you are all nuts. It's all about the money, always has been - always will be.

 

As someone in the industry, I can tell you that the cruise lines are not your friends they all lie and cheat. These problems exist on every line, every ship in some form or another. In the big scheme of things, it's a tiny portion of sailings that are affected, indeed unfortunate if you have to experience one of them, but millions of people cruise every year without problem and enjoy the experience.

 

One thing I do know, is that a few people - fed by anger, can easily influence and scare many others. I think there is enough blame to go around on both sides of this story.

 

Sorry, but I do not agree with the point of this that the cruise lines are out to get the passengers.

 

Yes, there are two major cruise lines (actually one being Carnival) and that is always a concern in terms of competition. And, yes they are out to make a profit. Yes, that is the goal of all companies in order to provide shareholder value and if they do not make money they quickly go out of business. But, I do not believe they are out to get you. That makes no sense to me. As in any business, there are good people and not so good people but I don't see those who represent this service industry being any different than those from similar industries.

 

And, you know what's happened in this world is everyone wants something. I was on a tender recently and a passenger bumped their head and the first thing I heard the person say is who do I need to see back at the ship as I want compenstation. Or, the port was canceled due to something out of the crulse lines control and the cruise line says they will give a credit and many will say, but that's not good enough. Or, in a restaurant, my food was too hot or my food was too cold, what will you do for me. What's unfortunate is so many people try to ask for the world that when you finally have something that is legitimate they had a tough time convincing someone that something should be done for them because everyone becomes cynical.

 

Keith

[Ma Bell]

You have that right Keith. It's like the boy who cried wolf. There are certainly situations that deserve compensation but when everyone is ready to jump on the bandwagon for every perceived slight, it makes it more difficult for those who have real problems.

[Drew B]

What bothers me are reports of the disgruntled passengers stiffing the cabin stewards & waiters. I just wonder if any of the folks posting here who were on this cruise did this and why. They work so hard it seems a shame to punish them for something totally out of their control.

 

I certainly didn't hear ANY reports of anybody stiffing cabin stewards and waiters. In fact, I heard a huge outpouring of empathy as it sunk in that these poor hardworking folks won't be making their tips the NEXT week when they were in drydock... I would be HORRIFIED to hear that anybody, disgruntled or otherwise, had done this...

 

That raises another point, though. I thought that the 2-hour "open bar" they provided, was also very unfortunate for the bar/wait staff. These poor people had to work five times harder than at any other point in the cruise, and I think that VERY few passengers were showing their appreciation with tips (as they would have had to have been cash tips, because the seapass wasn't charged). I got two virgin drinks (as 11:30 was far too early for me to start drinking), but each time, I gave a buck or two in tip. Many others tipped as well, but a huge number did not.

 

Beyond that, I don't know that I particularly like the "open bar" concept to begin with. It encouraged binge drinking that was very antithetical to the normal behavior on board. It was the ONLY time I saw (obnoxiously) drunk guests on the ship, and it was SO early in the day! I would have preferred that they had given each passenger some coupons for free drinks (3 or 4 seems fair) that could be used at any time rather than ALL within a two-hour window.

[FlyingTiger]

Sorry if my question bothers you, but I feel it is on topic. I simply wanted to know if the upset passengers (I'm not saying they shouldn't be) were upset enough not to tip the staff. I wondered if the treatment by the cruiseline management led anyone to this.

 

As for myself, I may very well be able to draw the line. The cabin and restaurant staff on that cruise were just first class. It is for them, that this cruise got some positive facets and was therefore no total spoiled holidays. This does not go for the unprofessional management of the ship - fortunately they don´t get tip.

Certainly I passed the envelopes, in some cases with more than suggested.

[Ilovefuncruises]

Sorry, but I do not agree with the point of this that the cruise lines are out to get the passengers.

 

I agree Keith. What I meant more was that people are naive if they think that problems are confined to a single cruise line. One bad experience on a line should not fuel someone's fire enough to get them to attempt to convince everyone to "abandon ship".

 

Cruise lines in general will try to "screw" you in other ways. I don't think they are out to get you. But in many ways customers are taken advantage of in ways they don't realize that ultimately profit the lines grossly. Not to mention that lines are not exactly "forth coming" with information. There is a long history of public deception in the cruise industry.

 

- Transfers are often double or triple what a cab fare would cost or even a private transfer.

 

- Pre/post packages, especially in Europe/Alaska, are often double or triple.

 

- Pre/post hotels are the same.

 

These are just a few examples.

[PugTug1]

Any idea as to who the Captain was for this most difficult voyage?

[FlyingTiger]

Any idea as to who the Captain was for this most difficult voyage?

 

His name is Dimitrios Karfetzis and he is leaving the Summit and Celebrity in 3 weeks time!!! Thats what he himself told an fellow passenger.

[Drew B]

His name is Dimitrios Karfetzis and he is leaving the Summit and Celebrity in 3 weeks time!!! Thats what he himself told an fellow passenger.

 

I liked him a lot, though. I think he was limited in what he could say/do because of corporate, but I found him to be a good guy who tried really hard to do a good job. Obviously, I'm only speaking for myself, here...

[FlyingTiger]

I liked him a lot, though. I think he was limited in what he could say/do because of corporate, but I found him to be a good guy who tried really hard to do a good job. Obviously, I'm only speaking for myself, here...

 

I was also very fond of him at the beginning of the cruise. Nice guy I thought, refreshing and a total absence of arroganza. He is also not to blame to be a "puppet on the string", but he should be more honest with his customers.

[sirgonealot]

I convinced 5 of my friends to do this Alaska cruise because of the itinerary and because I am a BIG Celebrity fan. Two of our group had never cruised before and 2 have cruised extensively on other cruiselines. I understand that things can go wrong; however, not to the extent they did on this cruise. I accepted the missed ports and the shortened time in other ports. The straws that broke the camel's back were not being able to get a good look at the Hubbard Glacier and the Inside Passage debacle. I finally made Elite status and I really do not care. I was very disappointed and embarrassed by everything that happened and by how it was handled. An observation that I have made, which may have no validity, is that Celebrity has not been the same or as good since Jack Williams left the company. Guess I will be spending a lot of time at Cruise Critic checking out other options for cruising!

[griswalds]

In my humble opinion, you were ripped off by a $25 credit and just because you accepted it does not make it right. My money is on the class action group, they have a legitimate complaint and should proceed. As far a contingency plan, that is pretty easy if you really think about it. When you take a calculated risk to run a ship that has a design flaw (pods) you need to have a plan to quickly respond to the situation. If your passengers have the confidence that you (Celebrity) will take care of them when the breakdown is a result of a predictable mechanical nature, then I say cruise on. As to what is fair, we could start another thread on that issue. I say they get a full refund, cruise and airfare! Based on how they were treated and what they miss this is the very least they deserve.

 

John

 

 

It should be noted that recent problems on carnival--including disembarking 14 hours late (that might cause a few to miss flights) and the following cruise not embarking until 2AM the following day, followed by the usual problems of not being able to cruise at full speed, yielded a $25 credit for Carnival and 2 free drink coupons.

[bfallen1]

If this is supposed to be the real story why don't you just let the people from this cruise tell their story.

 

Apparently you guys who were not on the cruise seem to feel that the people who were on it are not allowed to have an opinion that differs from how you think you would react to the same cruise experience. You were not there and you don't know what the conditions were really like and you really do not know how you would react unless you were there.

 

No wonder Celebrity is in such bad shape these days - it seems to have a loyal bunch of people who will put up with anything Celebrity is dishing out that day. However, it appears from this Board that huge numbers of people are now speaking up and all they get is a flaming response from you rather than any support. So they will go elsewhere for a better cruise experience and you will be left with your backside sticking up in the air asking Celebrity to stick it to you once again keeping things just as they are.

 

If you look at the most common threads for any other Board you will not see the complaints that you are seeing on Celebrity these days. Something is obviously broke and if you don't let these people speak up it will never get fixed.

 

Perhaps this is the wrong place to voice your opinion. True it is called “Cruise Critic” maybe this made you miss the point of this board. Maybe it should be called “People that Love Cruising” :D

[Ma Bell]

In my humble opinion, you were ripped off by a $25 credit and just because you accepted it does not make it right. My money is on the class action group, they have a legitimate complaint and should proceed. As far a contingency plan, that is pretty easy if you really think about it. When you take a calculated risk to run a ship that has a design flaw (pods) you need to have a plan to quickly respond to the situation. If your passengers have the confidence that you (Celebrity) will take care of them when the breakdown is a result of a predictable mechanical nature, then I say cruise on. As to what is fair, we could start another thread on that issue. I say they get a full refund, cruise and airfare! Based on how they were treated and what they miss this is the very least they deserve.

 

John

 

If I were on the cruise I would be very happy to have a $200 onboard credit and the 30% off a future cruise. I could understand a partial refund because many people cannot cruise again within the time period offered but a full refund...ridiculous. I wouldn't take it if offered because I would feel like a thief.

[c-legs]

.

#2. Management purposely docked the ship in Vancouver at an commercial facility in the middle of no where to avoid expected publicity coverage. Baggage, transportation, embarkation was a disaster. This punished the 1200 non-mutiny travelers such as ourselves to protect their selfish interests. We had no where to go. Our planned day of touring Vancouver was spent sitting at the airport for 6 hours.

the face with what transpired.

#6. This is not the way you treat customers

 

Capt'n Cruise and the Crewsers

Good afternoon,

 

With all due respect; your point # 2 is way off. The '' commercial facility'' you are referring to is Ballantyne pier, and is the facility used by Royal Carribean// Celebrity all year this year. The only exception being GTS INFINITY which will berth at Canada Place as RCL has SERENADE OF THE SEAS in town on the same day. The port used last Saturday for GTS SUMMIT is a regular operation. You're wrong in your assessment. RCL has been there for years.

Secondly, I was at the pier as an ''observer'' during the disembarkation; as a previous worker in this field, I have to say it was quite smooth, and over remarkably quickly ,given the size of the ship and the '' 1st ship of the season'' syndrom

I suggest the hyperbole is fed by your bitter disappointment up to that time.

 

As to point #6...bang on !!!

 

Cheers

CG

;)