Greedy People

[cechase]

P.S. My profession? Wrong and wrong! Guess again! :D

 

Damn, you know that I will respond to a challenge. But, before I respond, I did take the opportunity to read your review of the Jewel - and found it remarkably well written and quite positive as well as very informative! We have not cruised on RCL, and as you can see from my signature, in December we are venturing away from Celebrity.

 

Anyway, that is off the point of this response. Placing my "magic" thinking cap on - Hmmmm! it must be financial services [what a cop out by me] or even better a librarian.

[Leela]

The one poster who was probably closest to how the situation might have occured was Leela. In my young years as a naval officer...

Thank you. My dad was a Captain in the US Navy (nuke subs), and our family had a series of sailboats over the years. There were a couple of times that we got ourselves stuck on sand bars. And I cannot tell you how embarassing it was for my father the one time we had to have the Coast Guard pull us off because we were so wedged that the tide wasn't helping due to the way the currents were going -- after helping us, they are required to board for a safety inspection and to make a report. In the course of the report they had to ask my dad his profession...and when he told them you could see them trying really hard not to laugh.

[CruznTom]

Since it is agreed that the subject is "Greedy People", has anybody noticed the greedy people when a cruise line does give open bar? We were on Century and sat within sight of Nassau, but (because of engine problems) never attempted to dock. An announcement was made that there would be 2 hours of open bar in the afternoon and 1 hour pre-dinner. Unless we brought spikes and shoulder pads, we couldn't get a drink by the pool. We normally spend about 5 hours @ day near the pool bar and had not seen these pax before. Most were adamant about getting 6 or 8 drinks for their "table" .

In the Rendez-vous before late seating , instead of the usual crowd, it was packed and the staff were swamped with multiple orders from passengers we had never seen before (we were on a B2B). The staff did what they could do, but the demands for free drinks tested them. (the casino was dead early that night)

Bacically, - when something is free - watch out for the "greedy people".

[woodofpine]

I can only speak from my own experiences as an attorney for 38 years before retirement. Based on my experience, Americans are particularly afflicted with what we in the legal profession call "compensation neurosis".

 

If you don't agree with me, then go and get a cup of coffee at McDonalds and then spill it on yourself and sue them :D

 

Hmm... "we in the legal profession"? I've practiced 17 years, this is the first I've heard specific use of the expression "compensation neurosis"...

 

On the famed McD coffee case:

 

What I do know is that a jury was advised that McDonald's had tracked burn claims due to coffee that was maintained a critically damaging 10-15 degress hotter than the competition, and the corporatin decided it could live with the burn damage to its customers in the interest of selling more coffee;

 

What I do know is that when all was said and done (meaning appeals and settlement on appeal) the plaintiffs settled for less than $500,000. McD never paid the $14M judgment that corporate America and its insurers want the public to believe "went down";

 

What I do know is that the future woman plaintiff in the McD coffee case (after suffering 2nd/3rd degree burns and skin grafts to genitals) offered to settle the claim prior to filing suit for $50,000 and was completely rebuffed by McD and its insurers... Now was that an exorbitant claim? (Given what followed) Was that a smart or reasonable rejection?

 

I too don't think that a sand bar makes a meritorious claim under the facts present... But I don't think that 38 years practicing law makes espousals of legal urban myths very impressive either...

[BaltiGator]

Damn, you know that I will respond to a challenge. But, before I respond, I did take the opportunity to read your review of the Jewel - and found it remarkably well written and quite positive as well as very informative! We have not cruised on RCL, and as you can see from my signature, in December we are venturing away from Celebrity.

 

Thanks for the kind words. We had a wonderful time on Jewel. What might look like a "switch" to X from glancing at my sig in fact has nothing to do with dissatisfaction with RCI (after all, they own X anyway). It's just that we've decided - after just one cruise - that we are more "itinerary people" than "ship people" (and fortunately we're not among the "greedy people" at all - at least I don't think so :D ). It just so happens that X has the itineraries and timings that work for us in the coming year. We'd be just as happy to try HAL, return to RCI, or consider another quality line if the itinerary and timing was right.

 

And now that we've completely hijacked the thread, I'm curious about your "venture away from Celebrity." Is it based on dissatisfaction with X? Just wanting to try something different? That's one of the fairly pricey lines, is it not? What value do you anticipate getting for the additional dough?

 

Cheers!

 

P.S. Wrong and wrong again! (Now you're just guessing, but that's OK. I'm sure I'd get it wrong more often than not too if I tried to figure out people's professions around here.)

[BaltiGator]

Thank you. My dad was a Captain in the US Navy (nuke subs), and our family had a series of sailboats over the years. There were a couple of times that we got ourselves stuck on sand bars. And I cannot tell you how embarassing it was for my father the one time we had to have the Coast Guard pull us off because we were so wedged that the tide wasn't helping due to the way the currents were going -- after helping us, they are required to board for a safety inspection and to make a report. In the course of the report they had to ask my dad his profession...and when he told them you could see them trying really hard not to laugh.

 

Did your dad at least offer everyone free drinks? :D

 

That's a great story. I'll bet you and your family ribbed your dad about that for a long time after. I know my family sure would have! :)

[cechase]

And now that we've completely hijacked the thread, I'm curious about your "venture away from Celebrity." Is it based on dissatisfaction with X? Just wanting to try something different? That's one of the fairly pricey lines, is it not? What value do you anticipate getting for the additional dough?

 

BaltiGator, will stop trying to guess. If you noticed each of my guesses involved professions which required considerable writing skills.

 

To answer your question, it will take a little space here. No, it is not dissatisfaction with X, but rather gaining knowledge of the configuration of the Century class vessels through experience. On our five X cruises we have always had a Royal Suite. On Century, Mercury and Galaxy the Royal Suites are located on deck 10 directly below the pool deck. In our experience, and maybe not in the experience of other pax, that leads to annoying noise in our suite from moving of lounges, running or stomping feet on the pool deck. On our first cruise on Mercury, we had RS1054 which is under the hotdog and hamburger stand. My DW was ill, and in the middle of the night there was considerable noise for the cleaning and re-provisioning of the area above - sounded like they were rolling bowling balls over the deck. So, in our next four cruises we always got the most forward of the Royal Suites. Port side very little noise. On the starboard side considerable noise.

 

So our next cruise is on Infinity, and our Royal Suite is located on deck 6, which has cabin decks above and below. [ergo: we figure that we will not get the noise that we had on Century class vessels.]

 

We have a lot of fun together researching the various cruise lines on the internet, and shortly after booking Infinity, we looked at SilverSea, their vessels, configuration, itineraries, and fares. We found a SilverSea itinerary which would take us to places in the caribbean which we had not previously visited. The cost for this 9 night cruise in a Silver Suite which is about 50-75 square feet larger than Infinity's Royal Suite with travel insurance was approximately $10,000. We were stunned, because our 10 night cruise on Infinity with travel insurance was over $12,000. While the comparison is not entirely "oranges to oranges" [nine nights compared to ten nights; Alaska compared to caribbean itineraries] it is a big difference when you consider that we will not have our usual Seapass charges of $1,200 to $1,500 and tips of $400.00 or even more on SilverSea's Silver Shadow.

 

We love Century, and are eager to cruise on her again, but that will have to wait until 2007. [i noticed that you switched over from Galaxy to Century in your thinking and in our opinion that was a good decision.]

 

Hope that I have answered your question.

[bububr]

When you book a cruise , you are basically paying for two seperate entities.

 

A. First and formost are semi-inclusive hotel like ammenities. These should remain consistant throught the trip. The price of your cabin may vary from location, and size, but all public venues are equal. A few people book their trips based on the ship and the ammenities.

 

B.The second is the Itinerary. This is not always consistant. It can vary due to weather conditions, port traffic, mechanical problems. While most, including I, choose my trips based on ports of call, we have no control over variables, and neither does the Captain, crew or cruiseline. While it is not a way most like to look at thier vacation, Almost all if not all lines have a clause in the general contract when you purchase your trip that says that ports of call and the itinerary MAY change with out notice. If one or more ports are missed, the line has NO LEGAL RESPONSIBILTY to reimburse anyone. However, most offer some form of compensation for consumer relations.

 

Being stuck temporarily on a sandbar, but having the SAME Hotel ammenities, as well as an alternate form of transportation to the port In my opinion does not deserve compensation, regardless of how the ship ended up there.( see B.)

 

Regarding the issue of no working AC or toilet. ( see A). This is part of what you bought and are guaranteed to have. This would definetly warrant a refund, not in full or a cabin credit ,as you still have a room, and food and other services. The amount should be a fair and equal one. It should be the same for those in the Presidential suite as well as for those in a less expensive inside room. The same would apply to the AC. In other words just because it cost you more for your cabin, doesn't mean you should get more in incentives than someone else in a lower category cabin.

 

I was on the March 17th cruise, and its funny how some people look at many of us as complainers that want something for nothing. While we did make all of our ports of call........(see B.) We were missing out on what we really paid for...(see A).

 

I admire X for their 24 hour cleaning to protect its passengers, however in doing so.....The carpets were not vaccuumed, the Restaurant was closed for breakfast and lunch most days, while this was going on the buffet was 1/2 closed down causing long lines and waits, events were cancelled, furniture was constantly wet with bleach, and the staff, albeit faily good on the outside, were exhausted which caused a diminishment and slower service. In other words we booked the Four Seasons, but were put in the Budget Inn. To this day they WILL NOT acknowledge our sailing as having a problem, and treat it as the following cruise was treated.

 

While X was not responsible for the Norovirus, they were responsible for the conditions and ammenities that we bought into when we purchased our cruise. (see A)

 

Personally I would have been more than happy to trade this experience for being stuck for a bit on a sandbar.;)

 

So before you cruise, look at the fine print. See what the responsiblities of the cruise line are and what your options are regarding miss ports and bad weather.

 

I've never had a "perfect" vacation. There has always been some small glitch. But what I have come to realize is that there is no such thing as perfect, and ever vaction I have taken is exactly that a vacation: Websters- A period of rest and freedom from work.

 

Dave:eek:

[C 2 C]

Dave:

I agree. We experienced similar problems on Zenith a year ago.

We had NLV aboard Veendam on the Jan 15 cruise and on Zenith a month later. Zenith never acknowledged there was a problem despite all the visible bleach stains. Veendam's captain gave us daily updates, HAL gave a few free drinks and a $100 credit.

 

Although X provides a wonderful product when things go according to plan, they are not at their best just when they should be.. when their passengers are stressed by events.

[Chick's pal]

Siding with no one here, I would like to point out to folks who seek compensation in any situation that compensation is not free. We all see the increases in fares, premiums, fees and charges that essentially fund the compensation. The more compensation paid to cruisers, the higher the fare for the next cruisers.

 

IMHO it's very hard for people to understand everything that goes into paying out compensation. It's not just issuing a credit or writing a check. There is a ton of work involved with accounting for the compensation, shifting funds around, dealing with insurance claims, handling customer correspondence, etc. All of that labor is lost money and it has to come from somewhere.

 

So if we get $100 for an inconvenience, regardless of how warranted that compensation may be, we must know that it will cost us much more in the long run when we book our next cruise. Even if the fare is not more, the money will be made up in another way, perhaps by reducing dining room menu choices or by providing a cheaper brand of scotch at the bar. THE COST OF OUR COMPENSATION WILL BE MADE UP SOMEWHERE.

[5-Time Cruiser]

Ok, I'll chime in. I was on the Crown. And i've sialedc NCXL, HA and Celbrity. Anbyways, it was a reef folks! Not a bar. Bars move and are soft. Reefs form over years and are hard. Don't believe me? Read the Gazette. Secondly, what I and most passengers were upset over was not so much the grounding itself but the way NCL handled it. Mistakes happen. Its how you deal with them. They told us nothing on the ship's status (or even whether ot would be inspected for nearly 48 hours. For posting my account, I have already been labled greedy although I haven't asked for anything beyond an apology. Is this greedy? Surprisingly, many were upset but the line at the front desk demanding comps was small. Here's my letter to NCL:

 

I am writing to convey my deep disappointment in the way the crew aboard the Norwegian Crown handled the grounding upon a reef enroute to Hamilton, Bermuda on 7 June. True, accidents happen. But it is the way and manner they are dealt with that matters most. What certainly appeared to be a lack of planning, experience and training amongst the crew helped initiate and foster an atmosphere of chaos over the following hours. While about 20 minutes after we hit the reef and took a list, the Captain did announce that we had hit a bar and he was planning to get tugs to free her, there were no clear announcements about the tender process. That information could only be gathered in the hallways via gossip. And, we didn’t hear ANYTHING on the ship’s status for nearly 48 hours until the Captain sent notes under our cabin doors around 2200 Thursday night. Up to that time, most of us only knew we saw a clear hole in the bulbous and divers off the side all day. Rumor was we would sail back to Philadelphia but without official word on the ship’s condition, my family and many others were quite fearful of that proposition. The complete lack of information and understanding are what I and many others found most troubling. First the tendering process. It all amounted to unnecessary stress and frustration.

Since we were on the 4th deck, we could see the tender beside the crown shortly after the grounding. Many started to gather in the hallway speculating that they would board. Eventually, the assistant cruise director came downstairs and told everyone they were wasting their time since tickets would be required. When someone asked where tickets would be distributed he replied “I don’t know”. Much speculation ensued and many including my family proceeded to the Stardust Lounge since this is the logical place to distribute tickets. Some even claimed that crew had advised they go there. After awhile an announcement was finally made that tickets would be handed at the excursion desk. This was horrible planning since as you know, the lobby on the Crown is quite small. The crowd grew quickly and a stressed staff started to yell at us which only worsened the situation. After all this, when we went to board the tender we found that tickets weren’t necessary!!

Upon arrival in Hamilton, the staff advised that our last tender would be at 4:30 since they would try to free the Crown at high tide. We didn’t understand why this was necessary and asked why they couldn’t just bus or ferry us to wherever the ship ended up later. We were told no ifs and or buts, 4:30 was our last chance. Since this only gave us 3 hours, we couldn’t plan for a trip to HorseShoe Bay or any other beach that we would have otherwise gone to since our excursions were cancelled. Yes, it did rain that day but I would add that the skies cleared at 4:00. Following directions we returned to the tender at 4:00. Good thing since those that came at 4:30 were stranded as you know. Upon tendering I was appalled at the safety conditions since we were directed to walk across another tender to our tender via a gangway supported by 2 ice chests!! As another passenger commented, if those chests collapsed you were going in the drink!

When we returned, we watched the show with others as the gallant tugs freed the Crown. But we were concerned that she had to be pushed into port and neither the Captain nor Cruise Director Pedro (who was missing during the entire affair) had made an announcement about the ship’s condition or what the plan form there would be. It seemed the crew had been ordered to pretend that nothing happened. We are not fools and we know a good cruise form a bad cruise. Fortunately we were not in the ninth or tenth deck apartments as the stench in the hallways from the flooded septic system there was awful for several hours as we walked from the back to the front elevators (the back elevators failed).

At about 5:45, while we were in the 7 Seas restaurant an announcement was made that there would be an open bar form 6-7. Unfortunately for me, I was seated and was told I could only get house wine. I later heard from others that the “open bar” was full of restrictions (no frozen drinks, etc etc) so I’m not sure what I missed. This represented as much insult as gesture as by this time information and an apology would have been better.

I have to admit we had a great time in King’s Wharf Thursday although even that day was still overshadowed by us not knowing for sure how we would get home or the status of the ship (that info didn’t come until Thursday night). Fortunately, we made it back safely and the port of Philly was one of the smoothest processes I’ve seen. But I don’t think we would sail the Crown again and have already advised people I work with (many of whom sail annually) to do the same. A few other point disappointments:

· Food and service. This was absolutely the worst food and restaurant service I have had on 9 cruises. On most days I didn’t get my iced tea (following numerous requests) until well after the entrée arrived. I was in shock that we didn’t have escargot on “French night”. My son was equally disappointed that he couldn’t get a hot dog at the “All American Buffet”. And fortunately we ate in the restaurant Thursday night because the Asian buffet looked more like dog food. My Asian wife took a risk and had a bite and almost vomited. That food was not suitable for a cheap Chinese buffet much less a cruise ship. While several deserts were good and the soups were better than average, I should have heeded the warning of others who advised the Crown has a reputation for its dietary challenges. And why were people not seated in the middle? Fortunately we ate early but those after 6 had quite long lines while the center section remained empty.

· Chocolate Buffet. A highlight of every cruise, I was disappointed that I could not even get into this one. The lines went all the way from the back to front of the ship the entire hour. I kept checking and when the line finally went down I learned it was because the buffet was closing so I missed this.

· Cabins. True, we were in an economy cabin but the beds felt like a dirt floor. Air mattresses would have been better. And I kept falling out of bed during the list. I also don’t understand why passengers must still carry a metal key in this modern day with key cards which we also had to carry.

· Crew attitude. While generally polite, the crew pretended that nothing happened the entire cruise and grew agitated when people asked for updates. Even upon debarkation, the line grew large and unruly with no crew members in sight. This is inexcusable. They should have had crew posted along the line to keep order. This was their last chance to leave a good impression and they missed it. And, the excursion staff changed our times without explanation causing disruption to our plans (Thursday and Wednesday—even before the grounding). Lastly, the excursion staff’s yelling at those in line to get the unneeded tender tickets was appalling.

Positives:

· One waiter, Donald from Jamaica stood out. So much so that he was being name requested by many. We had him by chance one night and I was pleasantly surprised. He was great with children, knew the menu and our drinks came early and often. But he was alone. This was the first ship I had seen where the maitre’ d didn’t come to each table at least once. On every other cruise they have talked to the children and gone out of their way. Our maitre’ d spent most of his time looking out the window (probably wondering about the hole in the front of the boat).

· Our cabin steward. I forget his name but while the cabin design was poor he kept it very clean.

· Luggage. I have to admit I have never seen luggage delivered as quickly to the staterooms (within an hour).

Summary. I have taken time to share my honest feedback and hope you do the same in replying. The worst mistake of all was the secrecy and lack of information. Any public affairs person will tell you rumors develop and worsen in the absence of reliable info. That happened to an extreme. We sail annually without fail. As you can see, I’ve gone NCL 3 times (first on the Norway) and we have also sailed Celebrity and HAL several times. Up until this time I favored NCL by a slight margin. But the Crown’s bad handling of an unfortunate event has changed all that. Sincerely,

[bububr]

Chicks pal makes a very valid point. And the reason the we are experiencing high medical costs and insurance premiums are because of frivolous lawsuits brought on by greedy people.

 

I can remember when someone fell off the monkey bars and hurt themselves in middle school, it was deemed an accident. no lawsuit prevailed, and we healed and went on with our lives. Now-a-days if a kid falls down the parents sue the school, or the park, or the town for MILLIONS of dollars in compensation tying up our legal system, and driving up the cost of insurance and medical bills.

 

We have become a ME ME ME society that wants everything for nothing.

 

Its a shame.

 

Dave:eek:

[BaltiGator]

We love Century, and are eager to cruise on her again, but that will have to wait until 2007. [i noticed that you switched over from Galaxy to Century in your thinking and in our opinion that was a good decision.]

 

Hope that I have answered your question.

 

Yes, thanks much for the info. The stuff about the noise from above will come in very handy as we choose our Galaxy cabin, because you see, it isn't that we switched over from Galaxy to Century, but rather that we're ALSO seriously considering a Galaxy cruise (in October 2007). Don't ask me why we're setting up three X cruises without having sailed the line once. Are we nuts? I don't know. It's just working out that way.

 

I guess being in a Royal Suite makes the dollar comparison between X and a luxury line such as SilverSea more comparable. I'll be interested to hear what you think after the cruise.

[BaltiGator]

Although X provides a wonderful product when things go according to plan, they are not at their best just when they should be.. when their passengers are stressed by events.

 

Exactly what I've surmised from reading the X threads. And a bit of on board "compensation" is just a way to improve that aspect of their product. This isn't about making people "whole" like a lawsuit - that's a much more complex subject. This is about just doing some little things to diffuse pax dissatisfaction. Because dissatisfied customers become ex-customers (not X customers :D ).

[C 2 C]

The worst mistake of all was the secrecy and lack of information. Any public affairs person will tell you rumors develop and worsen in the absence of reliable info. That happened to an extreme. ,

 

Thanks for sharing the info. We cruised on NCL Dream almost 10 years ago. Nothing seriously went wrong but NCL never gave me a reason to want to do it again.

 

Celebrity used that same secrecy in a NLV outbreak on Zenith last year. However their good food and excellent service keeps me coming back...but I am looking for other deals because I know that Celebrity will not come through in a pinch.. their corporate attitude stinks.. it's the little guys onboard that have it right.. not the bosses at the top.

[lolakat]

It's funny when my family and I went on our first cruise in 1999 the first day was during a huge blizzard and half our group (from WI) missed to boat. The next day the water was so rough they could not tender people into Key West. This was where the rest of our group was supposed to meet the boat so of course they could not get on. The next day we missed Cozumel also due to weather . It was rainy in Jamacia and overcast in Grand Caymen and the seas were rough all week. In Spite of all that I still remember the trip as a great time. I don't think it ever even crossed our minds to expect compensation. At that time I had never heard of this board so I had no idea people even did that. I agree that missing a port can be disappointing but I'm not sure what the monitary value of a relatively small inconvience is. ( that being said if anyone from RCI wants to hand me an OBC 7 years post cruise I wouldn't object too strongly :p )

[Kudos2Fly]

We where on a Century cruise in Dec. 2004. We had engine problems also, missed Cozmel... We didn't get our open bar. Although we did get a $50 per-person credit... Which was fine with us...:D

 

When we got back to port, the news was already in the wings waiting for people off the cruise.. I was standing waiting for one of the busses to take us back to the parking lot. When a reporter asked a guy standing by me. How did Celebrity handled it. The man said he had a great cruise and the credit Celebrity gave was just fine. I think the reporter was disapointed on the responce.

 

But Celebrity did inform us what was going on.. We found out when in Jamacia about the engine problem. We never got off in Jamacia either due to tender problems. The waters where to ruff to get anyone off safety. That problem did work it self out, but by that time we figure it was to late to get off and do anything in Jamacia

 

I think the whole thing is communication.

[cruiser2004]

Thanks for sharing the info. We cruised on NCL Dream almost 10 years ago. Nothing seriously went wrong but NCL never gave me a reason to want to do it again.

 

Celebrity used that same secrecy in a NLV outbreak on Zenith last year. However their good food and excellent service keeps me coming back...but I am looking for other deals because I know that Celebrity will not come through in a pinch.. their corporate attitude stinks.. it's the little guys onboard that have it right.. not the bosses at the top.

Well put C 2 C. We also enjoyed the food,service and enterainment on Celebrity, but are in total agreement about the corporate attitude of Celebrity.