definition of formal wear for women

[mumom95]

So here is what I have come up with after reading all the replies to this thread.

 

Formal doesn't have one specific definition. For example, formal night on a cruise is not going to be anywhere near as formal as a formal dinner at the white house (that is going to be much more what we think of as traditional formal). Maybe it isn't that formal wear has changed over time as much as people/cruises calling functions formal functions when actually they don't mean the traditional formal function. If that makes any sense.

 

So what I have learned is that when I am invited to a formal function, I need to do a little research and find out what the host expects from me.

[MrsMoose2001]

Momofmeg, honestly I don't know about all of Radisson cruises, just the Alaska one I went on had all CCC. Maybe some of their other cruises to other places have a formal night. I don't want to give the wrong info or impression about all of Radisson.

 

I hope you have a wonderful time on your 25th anniversary cruise.

 

To Onessa, I completely agree with you too:)

 

Mumom95, yes I would always call and check unless you knew the event from past experience. There are certain events that I am invited to and I know that it is automatically full formal attire and don't need to, but if not sure I would always call and check unless specially indicated. I have had that on invites where it was very specific with it spelled out clearly, tux for gentlemen, ball gowns for ladies.

 

I went to a chartiy function for cancer this past sat night. I was originally told "formal" from my dance teacher who sold the tickets to me. I said, so that means black tie/tux and full length formal gown, her mouth dropped open and she said, I'd better call and ask. The person who gave her the tickets to sell told her "formal" but to him it meant "dress up" so basically it was just a "dress up" affair, not a "formal affair" and their could have been a lot of confusion would I not have made the comment.

[momofmeg]

So here is what I have come up with after reading all the replies to this thread.

 

Formal doesn't have one specific definition. For example, formal night on a cruise is not going to be anywhere near as formal as a formal dinner at the white house (that is going to be much more what we think of as traditional formal). Maybe it isn't that formal wear has changed over time as much as people/cruises calling functions formal functions when actually they don't mean the traditional formal function. If that makes any sense.

 

So what I have learned is that when I am invited to a formal function, I need to do a little research and find out what the host expects from me.

 

Yep what you would wear to the White House or the Academy Awards would NOT be what you wear formal night on a cruise. LOL!!!!! Like I would EVER get to go to either! I have read though that on Cunard-people really do dress up that much-but for Carnival, Royal Caribbean , Celebrity, Princess, HaL, Norwegen, and Disney-no you do not need a ball gown and your man a tux. but if you choose to wear that-that will be fine too!

[momofmeg]

Momofmeg, honestly I don't know about all of Radisson cruises, just the Alaska one I went on had all CCC. Maybe some of their other cruises to other places have a formal night. I don't want to give the wrong info or impression about all of Radisson.

 

I hope you have a wonderful time on your 25th anniversary cruise.

 

To Onessa, I completely agree with you too:)

 

Mumom95, yes I would always call and check unless you knew the event from past experience. There are certain events that I am invited to and I know that it is automatically full formal attire and don't need to, but if not sure I would always call and check unless specially indicated. I have had that on invites where it was very specific with it spelled out clearly, tux for gentlemen, ball gowns for ladies.

 

I went to a chartiy function for cancer this past sat night. I was originally told "formal" from my dance teacher who sold the tickets to me. I said, so that means black tie/tux and full length formal gown, her mouth dropped open and she said, I'd better call and ask. The person who gave her the tickets to sell told her "formal" but to him it meant "dress up" so basically it was just a "dress up" affair, not a "formal affair" and their could have been a lot of confusion would I not have made the comment.

 

You know, Mrs. Moose CCC did not click with me until I read this post of yours. I thought you meant you went with a group from cruisecritc. So that stands for something another casual right?

 

so Radison is like Oceania? at least I read posts that Oceania is some type of casual.

 

The 25th anniversary cruise is still a year away but I plan to- thanks.

[momofmeg]

well that term finially came to me, "country club casual". There is also "smart casual" and "resort casual". I would like to know just what the differance is in the three.

 

 

I know with country club causal, men wear blazers right? any other differances?

[MrsMoose2001]

CCC = Country Club Casual, that's what they called it. I called the cruise company to ask what it means to them as I know that it can mean a lot of different things to different people, depending on location.

 

We used to belong to a yacht club here and they allowed jeans in the dining room for dinner, they didn't like it but they were hurting for members and relaxed the rules from years ago I was told, but the cruise ship said no jeans/sneakers for dinner and I went into detail with the cruise line to make sure I knew what they meant by t-shirt and collard shirt as well as their definition of sneaker.

 

Actually not all men wore blazers, I'd say maybe 20% wore a blazer and the rest didn't and not every night. Although I only ate on the ship 6 nights out of 7, one night we ate dinner off ship because we were in Juneau at dinner time. Most just wore a short or long sleeved shirt with collar. The majority really were just average dressed nothing out of the ordinary. There were 4 restaurants, the main dining room plus 2 speciality and one smaller dining room. All were included no extra charges. The one that everybody talks about because it's supposed to be really "gourmet" is the one where the men wore the blazers more but it wasn't a requirement and not all men in there did. I ate in 3 out of the 4 restaurants skipping one as we didn't want the really long dinner in there. They are all open seating, but 2 out of 4 required reservations. You got a table for 2.

 

I can't say the food was extraordinary either.

 

I don't know the difference between Country Club Casual or Resort Casual.

 

I honestly think it has different meanings for different people. CCC can mean different things I think to different folks depending on age, location etc etc. Same for resort casual I suppose. As I said, if you visited the yacht club here, they allowed jeans when we were members and sneakers, but then I can think of some that would strictly forbid it so it's all a matter of individual dress codes in place.

 

I have been to two land resorts one in Vermont and they require a jacket and tie for dinner and one in upstate NY and they only require a jacket and collard shirt, tie is optional and the one in upstate NY I would say is more elegant than the one in Vermont.

[MrsMoose2001]

I wanted to add, that it's all too confusing with all the terminology of country club casual, smart casual and resort casual.

 

Now to me, the only one where I would say no jeans in dining room for dinner would be smart casual. Some resorts and country clubs allow jeans. Smart casual would be no jeans, but that's just me.

 

You see, I would agree with you that for Country Club Casual, I would expect a man to wear a blazer, but they didn't for Alaska, but no jeans, so it's really confusing and always better to just call the cruise line if in doubt. I think some of their other itineraries have formal or in-formal.

 

I can also see where a person might be confused with the term informal. It really can be very confusing.

[happysinglemom]

the definition she got back was for black tie events and not the mainstream cruiselines' definition of formal wear.

 

But she specifically did NOT want answers for what is considered "cruise formal". Did you read the initial post??? It was quite clear. That is my point. The original post was about people's definitions of "formal wear" and the origination of those definitions. The thread may have turned into something else, but that was not the original question.

 

And are you implying that MY nose is out of joint because of YOUR post? I have no idea why you would think that. I was simply responding to your "why I hate it when people start spouting the definition of formal wear". Believe me - nothing posted here gets MY nose out of joint.

[mumom95]

I wanted to add, that it's all too confusing with all the terminology of country club casual, smart casual and resort casual.

 

Now to me, the only one where I would say no jeans in dining room for dinner would be smart casual. Some resorts and country clubs allow jeans. Smart casual would be no jeans, but that's just me.

 

You see, I would agree with you that for Country Club Casual, I would expect a man to wear a blazer, but they didn't for Alaska, but no jeans, so it's really confusing and always better to just call the cruise line if in doubt. I think some of their other itineraries have formal or in-formal.

 

I can also see where a person might be confused with the term informal. It really can be very confusing.

 

I would like to thank you for making this last comment. It is nice to know that the more fashion savy people realize that it isn't so easy for all of us, not so fashion savy people (or at least for me, I really shouldn't comment for other people). I appreciate the comment.

[MrsMoose2001]

I would like to thank you for making this last comment. It is nice to know that the more fashion savy people realize that it isn't so easy for all of us, not so fashion savy people (or at least for me, I really shouldn't comment for other people). I appreciate the comment.

 

thank you for the kind words, I'm glad you appreciated the comment, which I really do find to be so true in today's fashion world.

 

 

Knowing what a term means is only good if it has the same meaning universally and the same to everyone and I personally don't think these phrases/terminology does have the same universal meaning anymore as it used to perhaps.

 

I honestly had to call the cruise company to ask what they meant to be safe. Why did I do that, because of something I read in "InStyle" magazine. I think it was Queen Latifah who said, always ask what it means as it can mean different things to different people. So I don't even think it has anything to do with being fashion savvy, it has to do with a host of stuff, like location and even age.

[BlueHerons]

CCC = Country Club Casual, that's what they called it..

 

I always took CCC to be club speak for Lily Pullitzer!

[poorsusan]

I have scanned most of the above posts so I have an idea of what is expected. I am going to be on a 15 day cruise from San Diego to Hawaii in January 2007 - so there will probably be 4 formal nights.....my problem is I am flying from Albany NY to San Diego to get the ship and HOW DO YOU PACK ALL THIS STUFF? We are limited in luggage obviously. Should I just get one long black skirt and 2-3 tops? I do have a long black velvet skirt...but it is heavy. Would it be too heavy to wear?

[greatam]

I have scanned most of the above posts so I have an idea of what is expected. I am going to be on a 15 day cruise from San Diego to Hawaii in January 2007 - so there will probably be 4 formal nights.....my problem is I am flying from Albany NY to San Diego to get the ship and HOW DO YOU PACK ALL THIS STUFF? We are limited in luggage obviously. Should I just get one long black skirt and 2-3 tops? I do have a long black velvet skirt...but it is heavy. Would it be too heavy to wear?

 

We have been on quite a few cruises (and travel VERY frequently for business) and luggage weight has NEVER been a problem. We have a Hartmann garment bag similar to this. http://www.hartmann.com/shop/productDetail.asp?sku=3000

 

Buying Hartmann luggage retail is EXPENSIVE. However, I bought mine on Ebay 5 years ago for less than $200.00. Hartmann luggage lasts forever.

 

I can pack 4 LONG formal gowns, dinner jacket, tuxedo, 2 suits, and 1/2 dresses and a couple of pairs of good dress pants and dress shirts in the bag. All left on hangers, in dry cleaning bags. Then we use our large suitcase (28") for shoes, slacks, heavy tops, etc. I have now packed almost all my clothes for a 14 day cruise in two suitcases. The garment bag has been the biggest help in packing. And clothes come out without wrinkles, etc.

[momofmeg]

I have scanned most of the above posts so I have an idea of what is expected. I am going to be on a 15 day cruise from San Diego to Hawaii in January 2007 - so there will probably be 4 formal nights.....my problem is I am flying from Albany NY to San Diego to get the ship and HOW DO YOU PACK ALL THIS STUFF? We are limited in luggage obviously. Should I just get one long black skirt and 2-3 tops? I do have a long black velvet skirt...but it is heavy. Would it be too heavy to wear?

 

Susan that sounds good to me your plan. I have done that myself on a 7 day cruise. Same skirt with differant tops. Black, grey or kahki colored or any neutral colored slacks would be great for casual nights too I would think. Just bring plenty of blouses.

 

Your ship may have a self laundry. Check and find out. Many say they don't do laundry on vacation but I always do as I hate coming home with a suitcase full of dirty laundry. I would always do laundry on a port day as no one is in the laundry room on port days and it is fast and easy.

 

anyway if you have a self laundry you can pack less underwear! Sometimes they run specials on the laundry prices also and you can have it done.

[momofmeg]

the definition she got back was for black tie events and not the mainstream cruiselines' definition of formal wear.

 

But she specifically did NOT want answers for what is considered "cruise formal". Did you read the initial post??? It was quite clear. That is my point. The original post was about people's definitions of "formal wear" and the origination of those definitions. The thread may have turned into something else, but that was not the original question.

 

And are you implying that MY nose is out of joint because of YOUR post? I have no idea why you would think that. I was simply responding to your "why I hate it when people start spouting the definition of formal wear". Believe me - nothing posted here gets MY nose out of joint.

 

Poor choice of words- I guess but it does seem you like to zone on me for some reason. It is obvious to me you dislike me.

 

You understood what I was saying that many here ARE NOT talking about formal nights on mainstream cruiselines but black tie affairs. even Celbrity and HAL were not black tie.

 

do yourself a favor-add me to your ignore list-and then my posts will not upset you any more.

[momofmeg]

Ok, first let me say that I am not by any means a fashion expert. I'm a stay at home mom who lives in jeans or shorts, depending on the weather. But let me also say that I'm a responsible adult and when I go places I adhere to the dress code. I don't want to start a fight in this thread, I am just interested in finding out what is the definition of formal wear for women. There was a thread on here quite a while back about the definition of formal wear for men, but in my opinion that is easier to answer than it is for women. I posted a dress a few days ago asking people's opinion, and I got a lot of "Well, it isn't formal, but it will do" kind of answers. I'm guessing they said it wasn't formal because it isn't long. It is version of the LBD, it is beaded on top, not just a plain dress. So I did a google search for the definition, and what I came up with is that formal wear for woman is considered either a long dress, dressy two piece, or a coctail dress (which I am assuming means fancy, shorter dress). Formal for women is the same as black tie. According to what I read, white tie means long dress, but that is not what is considered formal wear, that is considered ultra formal wear (not my words, got it off the description). Anyway, so after this long explanation, I am basically asking why the dress I picked a lot of people said isn't considered formal. I thought it was a coctail dress (maybe I'm wrong on that, like I said I'm no expert), and according to the definition of formal attire, a coctail dress is formal attire for women. Just interested in what people's definition is, and where they came up with that definition. Like I stated earlier, I don't want this to get into what is ok and not to wear on formal night, I just want to know where people get their definition of formal. Here is the dress I was talking about:

 

 

mumom am I right that you asked this BECAUSE you were told a dress you picked out to wear on formal night on a cruiseship was not formal? That is what I got out of your post-yes you were wanting to know the differances in definitions of formal wear-but also you wanted to know WHY several told you that you shouldn't wear that dress on formal night on a cruise. At least that is what I GOT out of your post.

[sharonella]

deleted post - sorry

[luckye]

MomofMeg

 

I have to agree with you. AFter all this is a cruise fashion board... I don't think its necessary to say cruise formal. If I were going to a land based black tie event, I wouldn't go to a cruise fashion forum for advice. Just me..

 

You have done a good thing by keeping this in perspective. If I was a first timer I'd be giving cruisng a second thought after reading some of these posts.

 

E!

[mumom95]

mumom am I right that you asked this BECAUSE you were told a dress you picked out to wear on formal night on a cruiseship was not formal? That is what I got out of your post-yes you were wanting to know the differances in definitions of formal wear-but also you wanted to know WHY several told you that you shouldn't wear that dress on formal night on a cruise. At least that is what I GOT out of your post.

 

Well, yes and no. I am very new to this board. I've been reading the Alaska and Princess boards on cruise critic for about a year, but just recently started reading the fashion board. I originally posted a thread asking if my dress was ok, some people said yes, although it isn't considered formal. Which got me thinking, what makes a dress considered a formal dress, in today's standards. I didn't know if it had to do with length, style, material, or a combo of multiple things. So I started a new thread to ask people what the definition of formal means, not necessarily realizing that there was a difference between cruise formal and other formal (boy, do I realize now there is a difference). I had people telling me it was ok for the cruise formal night but that it wasn't formal, which confused me, if they thought it wasn't formal then why did they think it was ok for formal night. But I now understand. So I asked the original question, not necessarily realizing there was a difference. I guess I must be one of those ignorant 30 year olds that is dumbing down America, Tumeroll has referred to. But I can see where people were getting mixed signals out of my post. Writing is not one of my many talents. Sorry for the confusion.

[momofmeg]

Well, yes and no. I am very new to this board. I've been reading the Alaska and Princess boards on cruise critic for about a year, but just recently started reading the fashion board. I originally posted a thread asking if my dress was ok, some people said yes, although it isn't considered formal. Which got me thinking, what makes a dress considered a formal dress, in today's standards. I didn't know if it had to do with length, style, material, or a combo of multiple things. So I started a new thread to ask people what the definition of formal means, not necessarily realizing that there was a difference between cruise formal and other formal (boy, do I realize now there is a difference). I had people telling me it was ok for the cruise formal night but that it wasn't formal, which confused me, if they thought it wasn't formal then why did they think it was ok for formal night. But I now understand. So I asked the original question, not necessarily realizing there was a difference. I guess I must be one of those ignorant 30 year olds that is dumbing down America, Tumeroll has referred to. But I can see where people were getting mixed signals out of my post. Writing is not one of my many talents. Sorry for the confusion.

 

Well you know I have never been to a black or white tie event. Before I cruised I thought it was like Love Boat and what I saw on that show- and I thought every night was formal night- I just thought that was the way it was-until a friend of mine who had been on a cruise told me differently.

 

I still commited a faux paux on my first cruise. I did wear a long formal gown but hubby only wore a suit and tie. I have been told since then, to be correct, the couple should dress the same-so I would have done better to wear the LBD so we would have "matched".

 

If your cruise is on Princess, you will look very nice in that dress-you will not look out of place or under dressed.

 

I thought Mrs. Mooses's posts were enlightening. She does go to such events and she said what one considers "formal" is not the defintion of anothers. So she gets the person to spell out what they mean. Sounds smart to me. I would hate to show up in a ball gown and my hubby in a tux and everyone else just in nice dresses and the men in suits.That would be just as embarrasssing to me as to show up in jeans not realizing everyone else would be formally dressed.

 

Makes me think of an old Bewitched show. Dariens's old girlfriend invites them to an event and says casual dress. (she is after Darien and Sammatha realizes this) Samatha comes in a simple dress and everyone is in evening gowns! Ofcourse Darien is dressed casual also, but being a man, he is not bothered! then she invites them again-this time Samamtha wears an evening gown and Darien a tux and they come in and everyone is really dressed casual. It was really funny but ofcourse Samatha got the woman in the end with her nose twitching!

[happysinglemom]

it does seem you like to zone on me for some reason. It is obvious to me you dislike me.

do yourself a favor-add me to your ignore list-and then my posts will not upset you any more.

 

Oh my. :eek: momofmeg - you could not be further from the truth. I enjoy all the regular posters on this board, you included. I am flabbergasted that you would think such a thing.:confused: I think that is the problem with the written word. I do tend to be rather direct - I live and breathe emails all day long at work in the technology field, and need to get my point across quickly. Occasionally, since this is a forum, I may interject some "tomfoolery", but honestly, I have no dislike for anyone here. I mean that sincerely.

[momofmeg]

MomofMeg

 

I have to agree with you. AFter all this is a cruise fashion board... I don't think its necessary to say cruise formal. If I were going to a land based black tie event, I wouldn't go to a cruise fashion forum for advice. Just me..

 

You have done a good thing by keeping this in perspective. If I was a first timer I'd be giving cruisng a second thought after reading some of these posts.

 

E!

 

 

which was all I was trying to say. I wasn't even just talking about this thread, but mumon's original thread. I guess I just figured everyone here would remember that other thread and the responses she got.

 

I will never understand why people will tell a person a dress is not formal-a first time cruiser is going to assume they mean the dress is not appropriate for formal night. Especially since they are posting, asking if the dress is appropriate.

 

I also understand people have opinions-but why not say something like "you will not be out of place and will look very nice but I myself prefer to wear a floor length formal gown and my SA wears a tux but we are in the minority on most cruiseships." then the question is answered.

 

 

 

I am glad at least a couple of people on this board understand me.

[sharonella]

... I still commited a faux paux on my first cruise. I did wear a long formal gown but hubby only wore a suit and tie. I have been told since then, to be correct, the couple should dress the same-so I would have done better to wear the LBD so we would have "matched"....

 

Ooops! Then I guess my BF & I didn't match on our Glory cruise! We inadvertently forgot his suit at home, so scrambled around Port Canaveral trying to find a replacement the night before sailing. (We figured it would be cheaper in the long run to buy another suit than rent on the ship.) After 2 hrs of shopping, we ended up getting a great sport coat, shirt & tie he could wear with his brand new khakis.

 

YES I KNOW - that is nowhere near formal, but you know, if we had had to spend more money than we did, THAT could have spoiled our cruise a bit, as the money we would have spent on rentals or a more expensive suit, would have meant curtailing an excursion, or other cost-cutting measure on board. As it was, we put it on the credit card & had to deal with it when we got home. I still had all all my fancy dresses & I think we looked fine, even tho I was dressier than him!

 

Sha

[momofmeg]

Ooops! Then I guess my BF & I didn't match on our Glory cruise! We inadvertently forgot his suit at home, so scrambled around Port Canaveral trying to find a replacement the night before sailing. (We figured it would be cheaper in the long run to buy another suit than rent on the ship.) After 2 hrs of shopping, we ended up getting a great sport coat, shirt & tie he could wear with his brand new khakis.

 

YES I KNOW - that is nowhere near formal, but you know, if we had had to spend more money than we did, THAT could have spoiled our cruise a bit, as the money we would have spent on rentals or a more expensive suit, would have meant curtailing an excursion, or other cost-cutting measure on board. As it was, we put it on the credit card & had to deal with it when we got home. I still had all all my fancy dresses & I think we looked fine, even tho I was dressier than him!

 

Sha

 

well you know Sha, I said it was a faux paux "by the rules", but what I have noticed is more women will dress up then men, so don't feel bad, I do believe men do rebel about that more where as a lot fo women enjoy dressing up.

 

There ae plenty of those type faux-paux's on cruises. I even saw a few on HAL and Celebrity.

 

Anyway I was all excited about wearing a long gown my first cruise, it was the first time I had worn a long gown since our wedding. There was NO WAY I was getting my hubby in a tux! So I did it anyway. I saw other men in just a sport coat and no tie and their wives dressed to the 9's ,my hubby looked great next to them.

[sharonella]

well you know Sha, I said it was a faux paux "by the rules", but what I have noticed is more women will dress up then men, so don't feel bad, I do believe men do rebel about that more where as a lot fo women enjoy dressing up.

 

There ae plenty of those type faux-paux's on cruises. I even saw a few on HAL and Celebrity.

 

Anyway I was all excited about wearing a long gown my first cruise, it was the first time I had worn a long gown since our wedding. There was NO WAY I was getting my hubby in a tux! So I did it anyway. I saw other men in just a sport coat and no tie and their wives dressed to the 9's ,my hubby looked great next to them.

 

Oh - I know - & That's how I feel (shoulda put more smilies in the post) - I cruise with family & it's like pulling teeth to get them into anything fancier than dress slacks & sparkly tops on formal nights (which they wear). No bother - I wear what I want, they wear what they want & we're all happy!

 

1st cruise, we sailed with our theatre group, not family. All the on-stage guys have tuxes (it's what they wear when we do musical revues) & some of the the spouses of the on-stage gals had them too, for whatever reason, but not every guy, including my BF. My bf LIVES in jeans & t-shirts for work & play, but I said to him, off-hand, too bad you won;t have a tux - most of the guys have them. & he said, yeah - a tux would be cool on a cruise! WELL - you coulda knocked me over with a feather! I said, well, Denis has a few different tuxes, I'm sure - he's always bouncing up & down about 20lbs - maybe he'll lend you one. My BF said, sure - ask him! Next thing you know, my BF is outfitted with a tux & looked MARVELOUS! Woohoo! Without my knowledge, he also bought some Tommy Bahama Hawaiian shirts, khaki shorts & slacks ON HIS OWN! He kept telling me - don't worry - I have nice clothes for the cruise! (But this is the guy I always had to make change his clothes before we'd head out to my folks on holidays, y'know?) I made him show me one outfit - what a guy - he wasn't lying!

 

THEN - even bigger surprise - ever since, he's slowly been getting rid of the t-shirts - has bought all sorts of button down dress & Hawaiian shirts. (Knows the "going rate" for all Tommy Bahama on eBay!) Now I have to dress "up" to "match" him - at least for casual daytime wear! :D

 

Sha