Bumped!

[serendipity1499]

You are totaling missing what we are saying: yes, the airlines overbook more than anyone else, you have been lucky: do passengers normally get bumped? no because there are enough passengers that will gladly take the vouchers, but it happens on a daily basis. Ask my daughter who is a ticket and gate agent in Orlando. The hotels do also and will walk guests to another hotel if this happens, but again it happens daily. that is why giving a CCard for guarantee is so important. If you just hold a room and the hotel sells out they are under no obligation to find you something else. If you have reserved with a CC they are. As for the cruise ships, they are least likely to do this as the situation comes up rarely but it does happen. I personally do not know of one full paying cruiser that has ever been bumped. We are referring mostly to industry travelers. I have had clients offered a sweet deal to change their sailing dates, but never have I had one bumped. We do not have loyalty to cruise lines, we just know the way the game is played. What would you suggest we do; all of us picket the cruise lines? NMNita

 

Agree 100%..agabbymama do you realize that we are not talking about full paying passengers? Don't understand at all why you would disagree with us..Of course full paying passengers should not be Bumped!I have never been Bumped when paying full fare & don't expect to be...And you should not expect to be bumped..When your flights are canceled they must protect you, but when Interlines flights are canceled we must protect ourselves..

 

However, this thread is not about a Full Paying Passenger..It was started by a Travel Agent who was booked on an Interline Fare..Pudgesmom asked if you had read the entire thread..I don't believe that anyone who has read this entire thread would fail to understand why the Original Poster was bumped & our response to it! I've taken hundreds of flights, have had 13 cruises & stayed in hundreds of hotels & can count on one hand the number of times I've been actually Bumped on an Interline Discount..They do stand out!

 

NMNita..Got a laugh out of your post...It's also great that I can now wear Jeans on a flight!;)

 

Betty

 

I'm booked as a full paying passenger on the Ryndam in November & expect to have my cabin!

[agabbymama]

Serendipity1499,

 

Oh yes, I've read the whole thread. When I jumped in, it was with the question of whether opinions would change if this did start happening to

full fare paying passengers. I still believe the cruiselines are wrong in bumping ANYONE at 5 days from sailing. The cruiseline should know whether they are overbooked long before that. Yes he/she may know as a TA he/she was getting a deal and gambling, but the fact remains, the cruiseline took her/his money/booking then waited until 5 days before sailing to bump her/him. My concern is that if they will do it to TAs/special fares, that because it would be profitable for them, that they will start doing it to ANY passengers, with no guidelines in place to prevent the cruiselines from doing this very thing.:eek:

[gizmo]

 

My concern is that if they will do it to TAs/special fares, that because it would be profitable for them, that they will start doing it to ANY passengers, with no guidelines in place to prevent the cruiselines from doing this very thing.:eek:

 

This has already happened. A lot of pax got bumped from a Carnival cruise out of Baltimore in 2004. The cruise line expected x amount of cancellations and they didn't get it. The cancellation number was way below the usual. I don't remember how far out it was from the sail date when they were notified. It was ugly. They had no choice.

 

I think TA/Special Fares is an entirely different ball game. When you buy a fare like this, you know up front what could happen.

 

I guess the question is how far in advance should they notify the TA ?

[agabbymama]

gizmo,

 

Thanks for the info on the Carnival cruise in 2004. As I said, that's what worries me. If it is still profitable to the cruise lines, and they can get away with it, they will do it.

 

Yes, the question is, at what point should the cruiseline notify ANYONE not just a TA that they are being bumped? I mean, come on, they have bean counters that know after full payment is made, just exactly how many passengers they are going to have. If they are waiting until 5 days out to figure this out, that isn't anyway to run a business anyway.:eek:

[Pudgesmom]

These are two different issues.

 

I don't want the interline policies to change. More likely than not, these rates would just go away altogether. The purpose is to fill an otherwise unused hotel room, cruiseship stateroom, or airplane seat not purchased or used by a paying passenger. In a way, it is a professional courtesy.

 

If you want to discuss cancellation policies for a full-fare paying passenger, that is a different story. It is not what this thread is about.

 

Beth

[RevNeal]

Revneal, I don't think my metaphor is befuddled. Thousands of people are still cruising, accepting all these things that are happening. Following like "a bunch of sheep", saying, "oh well, as long as I can continue to cruise on a beautiful ship, so what if I may have an extra day or two at sea instead of going where I wanted to go", not worrying about making the cruiselines perform and provide what was purchased. If you have ever been around a flock of sheep, where one goes, the others follow. I think my metaphor is totally apropo.

 

Your metaphor assumes that (1) the worst contingency WILL always occur (i.e, sheep go to slaughter), and (2) we don't realize that such things can happen (i.e., the sheep are too stupid to know they're going to be eaten).

 

In reality, (1) things don't ALWAYS go wrong, and (2) we DO understand that bad things CAN happen. We are simply willing to accept the fact that sometimes crapola-happens (hurricanes, political upheavals, administrative errors, etc) and there's not much that one can do about it. Our choice is to deprive ourselves of the activity which we enjoy or enjoy the activity and take the chance (rather small) that something will go wrong. I, and many others, would rather not worry about and dwell upon the negative. Until we reach the other side of glory there are no guarantees in this life; our choice is either to live with it, or quit living. I prefer to live with it ... for now.

 

My newly-favorite adage is: when "crap" happens ... FLUSH, don't wallow in it.

This thread is an example of wallowing in it. I only chimed in because, the way you wrote your metaphor, generated some really funny mental images.

[HeatherInFlorida]

Agab, while your question is interesting and has been discussed on other threads, the fact is your scenario is not what was being discussed here. If you want to throw a fly in the ointment just to rev everyone back up again, go for it. But I think people have tired a bit.

 

RevNeal, we can always trust you to bring a giggle along. You're the best!:D Maybe she meant lemmings? Have you seen any lemmings on your cruises?;)

 

In the final analysis, yes people are bumped occasionally from a cruise. But it such a minute number that we're all ready to risk it. If it happens to us? Sure, we'll be angry. But that has absolutely nothing to do with what was being talked about here.

 

So why don't you start a whole new thread for that discussion?

 

I know no one will mind if I don't join that one:o

[desmon]

Help me understand...since final payment is due weeks in advance of sailing how can a ship be overbooked a few days before it leaves the dock?

 

Does the cruise line expect some people who have paid for a cabin not to sail - if so, they still have the revenue for a cabin.

 

Of if they have offered a discounted rate to someone and a full fare passenger comes along, do they bump the low rate passenger?

 

My wife was a full-time TA for a while and we took a couple of cruises on TA rates - the difference in fare was about $25 per person per day. It certainly wasn't worth waiting until a few weeks out to get confirmation and not know what cabin you will get. I asked her last night if she knew that we could be bumped after we paid for the cruise and she never heard of that rule. (Don't dare call us names!) We never had a problem - had one bad cabin and one great cabin, but decided it was not worth the trouble and then she left the industry completely. But if I had known the rule about being bumped and the cruiseline accepted my payment, then I would expect them to provide the service.

 

The rule should be (repeat "should be") you accept my money then you deliver the service.

[raadsel]

I've lurked on this thread from the beginning. I find it interesting that some seem to ignore the fact that the first page of the thread is almost completely people being upset over the situation. It's only once people started realizing things weren't adding up and the OP admitted to traveling on an Interline fair that people were upset at the OP's lack of candor.

 

The fact is, as has been stated many times on this thread, that the TAs that travel Interline fairs know that they can be bumped at any time, that it is something that is emphasized up front. They agree to those terms in order to get discounts (often substantial) on the price of the cruise/flight/hotel. They also know not to book "high season" (typically summer and holidays) as they are 98% sure to be bumped.

 

The other side is that those who are considered as paying a full fare are not typically bumped. Now, it is true that HAL (like all cruise lines) overbook. It is also true that, on occasion, HAL has had situations where they did not have enough rooms when final payments were made. In these cases, HAL has offered incentives (typically, from what I've seen, with a value that is around half the cost of the cruise) for people to change to a different sailing, and this is done just after final payments are made (about 60 days out). I've not heard of a normal passenger being bumped from HAL because of overbooking and get the impression that most of the regular posters here haven't either; instead HAL has always found plenty of people willing to change for the incentives offered. What I also read from the majority here is, if this had been a full paying customer that HAL would be completely in the wrong.

 

If an Interline passenger should be bumped with 5 days to sail is a different issue and one that could be debated (though the industry seems to have already made the decision). Yet, as many also have claimed, it's possible that if this were changed that most lines would simply drop Interline travel.

 

As for overbooking, the question is if most would actually want overbooking discontinued. The fact is that overbooking keeps the cost of cruising low. For an example, say the average cruise line overbooks by 10% (I'm not sure what the numbers really are, this is just for example). If they did not overbook, the cruise lines would have difficulty filling those 10% of cabins at the last minute -- especially at full price. So, rather than overbooking the choice is to raise rates 10% to cover the cabins that would be empty for each sailing. Of course, most of us aren't willingly going to pay 10% more (or whatever the rate actually is), typically we'll be willing to go with the lines that still overbook -- most people feel (and have voted with their wallets) that the cheaper price for the same product is worth the risk of being bumped.

 

The facts are that people who work in the travel industry know the disadvantages of Interline travel yet most appear to think the advantage in price is worth the risks. Some, however, apparently don't feel the savings is worth the risk and always book full fare. The fact is that they have the choice, they aren't forced into booking Interline. Many people would love the opportunity to travel at Interline rates, regardless of the risks. It's a matter of what risks you are willing to take with your vacation and how well you can deal with last minute changes. Those that aren't willing/able to deal with the risks book using a regular fare.

 

In the case of the OP, as a TA she had to know the risks and chose to book Interline anyway. She claims that there wasn't that great a cost difference but, to me, that just begs the question of why she didn't book full fare (and not risk being bumped) -- especially in Europe in early August (High Season). She apparently decided the rate was worth the risk, regardless of what the difference was, yet now is upset because the risk didn't pay off.

[cruiseco]

 

I still believe the cruiselines are wrong in bumping ANYONE at 5 days from sailing. The cruiseline should know whether they are overbooked long before that. :

 

What you're not taking into consideration is that up until six days prior to sailing everything may have been perfectly balanced -- booked passengers equaled available rooms and no overbooking situation.

 

Then on day 5 prior to sailing someone decides they want to go on this trip at the last minute. No problem, says HAL. We'll bump the person who agreed to be bumped if this situation were to pop up and accommodate the new booking. My bet is that this is what happened as opposed to some general overbooking situation that they couldn't straighten out.

 

I admit to being baffled by the reaction of non-TA's to this matter. Every TA that wishes to cruise already gets a discount on a confirmed booking (the same rules as everyone else) just by the fact that they get to net out their commission -- in my case with HAL I could subtract 16% off the top on any cruise at any time. That's a pretty good deal right there.

 

But if I really wanted a dirt-cheap deal I could go for a TA fare with the chance of getting bumped at any time. I know the risks. I know what will happen if I get bumped. If I get bumped I certainly don't expect sympathy from anyone. I rolled the dice and lost. Maybe I'll be luckier next time.

 

But those that think that HAL is the bad guy here are missing the whole picture. If HAL were to eliminate the TA fares (and the accompanying rules) I wouldn't have that chance to get lucky. From my point of view the chance of a last-minute bump is worth the cheap fare. Don't take that option away from me.

 

Also, when I was a TA for 15 years our agency booked approximately 5,000 - 6,000 pasengers per year. In those 15 years we NEVER had a client involuntarily have to give up a cabin because of an over-booking situation. We had many that accepted the offers extended to induce them to move to a different sailing but they always had the option of sticking with their original plans. I'm sure that involuntary bumps have happened but they're so rare that it's news when they do. In my experience it was 0 for 75,000.

[RuthC]

Help me understand...since final payment is due weeks in advance of Does the cruise line expect some people who have paid for a cabin not to sail - if so, they still have the revenue for a cabin.

Yes, the cruiseline does expect some people who have paid in full will not sail. They do still have the revenue, and they do re-sell the cabin.

All of that $$$$$ is figured in their budgeting when the cost of the cabin is set.

One time I was in Rome on a Monday preparing to sail on Wednesday; I didn't board. It's very possible that someone on a TA rate didn't get bumped because of that.

[newmexicoNita]

Help me understand...since final payment is due weeks in advance of sailing how can a ship be overbooked a few days before it leaves the dock?

 

Does the cruise line expect some people who have paid for a cabin not to sail - if so, they still have the revenue for a cabin.

 

Of if they have offered a discounted rate to someone and a full fare passenger comes along, do they bump the low rate passenger?

 

My wife was a full-time TA for a while and we took a couple of cruises on TA rates - the difference in fare was about $25 per person per day. It certainly wasn't worth waiting until a few weeks out to get confirmation and not know what cabin you will get. I asked her last night if she knew that we could be bumped after we paid for the cruise and she never heard of that rule. (Don't dare call us names!) We never had a problem - had one bad cabin and one great cabin, but decided it was not worth the trouble and then she left the industry completely. But if I had known the rule about being bumped and the cruiseline accepted my payment, then I would expect them to provide the service.

 

The rule should be (repeat "should be") you accept my money then you deliver the service.

You are right as far as using the rate for booking, I never do, but the rest isn't quite the way it works. Maybe no one ever informed your wife as this is rare, but it is a fact and is in writing when you get your information on the cruise. As for paying ahead, sure, final payment is due 60-90 days prior to sailing but many people book and pay in full just a week or so prior to cruising. Since 9/11 you do have to book 72 hours out, that's it. In fact we get information coming through to our bosses all the time listing special prices for late bookings. I hope this helps explain what happened a little better. BTW: you mentioned you only saved about $25 per day, well, that to me is a pretty nice savings if you thing about it: about $200 per person. I have seen TA rates as low as $35 per day period and other times not even be available. Usually they do save money, just not always worth the hassle. NMnnita

[HeatherInFlorida]

Raadsel and Cruiseco, excellent posts! Voices of reason. It's such a relief to see that people can come late to a thead, read it through and understand why people reacted the way they did.

[RevNeal]

RevNeal, we can always trust you to bring a giggle along. You're the best! Maybe she meant lemmings? Have you seen any lemmings on your cruises?

 

Thank you, Heather. At least SOMEBODY figured out I was trying to be humorous in my first post on this thread. This was just TOO thick of thread. I had avoided it all along, but thought I might throw some light coloring in. Sadly, someone thought I was serious. :) So ... I had a little more fun. But, you caught me. :):eek:

 

Baaaaaaaaaa

[HeatherInFlorida]

Thank you, Heather. At least SOMEBODY figured out I was trying to be humorous in my first post on this thread. This was just TOO thick of thread. I had avoided it all along, but thought I might throw some light coloring in. Sadly, someone thought I was serious. :) So ... I had a little more fun. But, you caught me. :):eek:

 

Baaaaaaaaaa

 

Greg, there's one thing you can always rely on with me ... if there's fun somewhere, I'm going to find it:D . So keep it coming!!!