The recent rash of mean-spirited, personalized, argumentative posts

[dst]

well said, now about that cake :)

 

I am gaining weight just thinking about all the cake and volcano desserts in the Pinncale :(

[sail7seas]

We must have been posting at the same time, dst. ) My response didn't make much sense following yours but thanks for your nice post.

[xpcdoojk]

Hey, how come all I see when I read this thread is a bunch of names with no posts. :D

 

Oh, I remember I have you all on ignore. :D ;)

 

just joking. :D

 

ignore trolls, gosh, that would be such a shame they bring so much hilarity to the forums. I prefer to whack em, but that is just me. :)

 

jc

[joeinwpb]

If I may interject a second point of view. I am of the belief that with a little respect, almost all is resolved. Snubbing a person goes against my nature. I’ve differed with people many times, on these boards, but I still respect all of you folks.

 

I believe kind words, and a genuine respect is much more effective than snubbing, and ignoring.

Am I wrong?

[ekerr19]

joe-

 

You are not wrong. I agree with you. I don't understand why it's ok for one group to feel a certain way and if someone disagrees, they are attacked for their opinion... why not try thinking "outside the box"?

 

I happen to be very opinionated (as my DH knows) and at times will be the first one posting such... but I have been trying to adopt a different attitude and keep an open mind - I have to remind myself that I don't know it all!

[joeinwpb]

I have to remind myself that I don't know it all!

 

Good honest answer. It's not easy to do all the time. But it's still the right thing to do.

 

I even keep my email accessible. I'm always open to dialog. Do you know of anyone else that open, on this forum?

[lddam]

 

I believe kind words, and a genuine respect is much more effective than snubbing, and ignoring.

Am I wrong?

 

I don't think you're wrong, but you have to admit that oftentimes "It's not WHAT you say (write), but HOW you say (write) it" that causes hard feelings. Discussion and meaningful dialogue is one thing and ought to be encouraged, but the purposeful use of provocative language is another. In the case of the latter, ignoring that individual is the most effective means of limiting that person's negativism.

 

Just MHO.

 

Dave

[HeatherInFlorida]

I am so hoping you all have not hit "ignore" me! I'm afraid I was railroaded into an argument and, knowing little of trolls, tried to reason with the person more than once. I hope in the midst of that ugly debate no one got the wrong idea about me.

Hopefully all that has quieted down and everything is back on track:) .

S7S, I tried to send along my good wishes for your anniversary and I hope you got them before the thread was removed. I just wanted to tell you how much I've enjoyed so many of your posts. So I hope you get that beautiful cake and enjoy your anniversary cruise on the Maasdam, definitely one of my all time favorite ships.

[annebill]

Look, folks. I have a strong feeling that I'm one of those who is banished , too, but there is nothing wrong with open and honest discussion of different opinions on this board. Look back and you will notice that the topics that get the most interest and response are the ones that discuss controversial topics. I don't for a moment condone ugly and demeaning personal attacks on anyone, but some great discussions have been posted here. I, for one, have been very interested in seeing divergent opinions and have gained new insights into some things that I might not agree with. I participate on this board because I now have the time, and because I'm a great fan of HAL, and because human nature fascinates me.

 

Some people here are too sensitive in that they tend not to tolerate any divergent view. If you disagree with some, or point out their inconsistencies, then you are labeled a trouble maker. If you post something they don't like, they say you are "off topic", and if you are an old hand with "pull", your post is promptly removed--I know, it has happened to me. Yet, those same people can go on and on with unquestionably "off topic" stuff. ( There is a lot of smarm and fluff that has no place here but should be communicated by email), but I suspect that I'll be labeled a "troller" or "troublemaker" for saying such things. This board is not just for those who post hundreds and thousands of topics and replies, but for all who cruise HAL, and for those less frequent posters who may have different views and opinions. As I was once told---"My opinion is just as valid as yours"--and my post re tours in France was promptly removed as "off topic" ( I had suggested that HAL tourist go to the Normandy Cemetery instead of spending their money in Gay Paree--politically incorrect).

 

So, before Walt deletes me again, I'll just say--My opinion is just as valid as yours.So, folks, stop b------- about people with different opinions and learn a little tolerance. You fall all over yourselves pronouncing how open minded and tolerant you are about every other social question, so learn to tolerate the people who "think out of the box", as ekerr said.

[Mary Ellen]

snip... but there is nothing wrong with open and honest discussion of different opinions on this board. ..snip..

I agree (but I don't always ;) ). The 1 poster I put on my 'ignore' was abrasive IMHO. I don't have a problem with different opinions (if everyone agreeded with me - it would drive me NUTS :eek: ), but abrasive.....

[joeinwpb]

I know what you mean Dave.

 

But again you could look at it objectively. I prefer to look at it as a challenge.

I have had some wonderful times talking to people in service areas, after my wife has stormed away from hopping mad. With a little respect, and understanding I found them only happy to help out, above and beyond what I was asking for.

 

I still can’t honestly say I believe in snubbing people.

 

I found that when people are carrying on about clothes or special privileges for suite users I vowed I shall not say anything, or even view the thread. I know I hurt a nice lady’s feelings, on one of those threads. I still feel bad about doing that.

 

She and I are fine now, but I was wrong not showing the proper respect.

Our conciliation could never have taken place If she used the ignore button on me, or vise versa.

 

I hope she responds to this posting.

[HeatherInFlorida]

I think the above few posts are an open, honest debate. Hopefully that is not what anyone is complaining about. I think we know the poster who was beyond that. It seemed no matter where you went on the Boards for a few days, a certain name popped up and it was rare that the post was positive, productive or in any way informative or helpful. I would go so far as to say that it was mostly inflammatory. I was somewhat successful in making peace with this person only to see him/her all riled up on another thread.

 

It got to a point I was just trying to find a thread where the name didn't show up!:eek:

 

So I'm really hoping that's the type of thing people are upset about rather than simply not wanting to hear any opinion but their own. How boring would that be!!!:rolleyes: I come on these Boards to get other people's opinions as well as information and reviews. I have found it hugely helpful and really enjoy visiting.

 

Joe, I agree with you. I have trouble hitting the "ignore" button for the same reasons you do. So I haven't done it yet. But I might:)

[iluvcruzin]

Heather - I think you make a great referee. I don't think anyone hit "ignore" on you.

 

I think it's fine people have a difference of opinion and that it's ok to share. What I don't think is fine is when a horse beating occurs multiple times with each instance expecting different results. It makes no sense to me.

 

Once I partcipated in a message board where people started something that seemed to help reduce debating & arguments. It was called "I will not engage". Whenever someone posted something that another poster thought was way off.. They would post "I will not engage". This sent a message - I don't agree with you but I'm not going to spend my energy arguing it. It worked pretty well and cut down the amount of debating and arguing.

 

It's so much easier to agree to disagree.

[sail7seas]

Thank you, Heather. That is very kind of you.

 

I would never dream of putting a block on you or on ALMOST anyone. I always have the choice to move along if I don't wish to read what someone has written.

 

If I am perturbed by someone, I most usually read but stop replying when I see a pattern I don't appreciate.

[joeinwpb]

Sails:

I also was wondering if you recieved my message on that thread that was shut down. If not congradulations on 35 years of wedded bliss. :)

[lknick]

[quote name='annebill']So, before Walt deletes me again, I'll just say--My opinion is just as valid as yours.So, folks, stop b------- about people with different opinions and learn a little tolerance. [/QUOTE]If only we knew the difference between opinion and fact.

[sail7seas]

Thank you doubly, Joe. It was very nice of you to write it the first time and now to assure that I saw your message. I greatly appreciate your and everyone's good wishes.

[superstein61]

[quote name='joeinwpb']If I may interject a second point of view. I am of the belief that with a little respect, almost all is resolved. Am I wrong?[/QUOTE]

Joe - you are not wrong. Its sad that there are double standards on this board. One for regulars and those who they agree with and one for everyone else. I always treat someone with respect until they begin to treat me otherwise. Its only then, after someone calls me a name or makes an unprovoked insult - that I get down in the mud and defend myself. Maybe thats not the best approach for me to take - but sorry, I learned long ago that if you don't stand up for yourself, no one will.

As to ignoring - IMO, people are free to do whatever they wish. I fell ignoring someone is childish - but if a person wants to narrow their world by ignoring certain folk, they are only hurting themself - so they should feel free. No sweat off my back

[superstein61]

[quote name='ekerr19']joe-

You are not wrong. I agree with you. I don't understand why it's ok for one group to feel a certain way and if someone disagrees, they are attacked for their opinion... why not try thinking "outside the box"?

I happen to be very opinionated (as my DH knows) and at times will be the first one posting such... but I have been trying to adopt a different attitude and keep an open mind - I have to remind myself that I don't know it all![/QUOTE]

Ekerr - I agree as well. I have been flamed often here for a few of my different opinions. Its sad that folks can not think more outside the box and accept that alternate viewpoints do exist.

Thanks for the post

[superstein61]

[quote name='annebill']Look, folks. I have a strong feeling that I'm one of those who is banished , too, but there is nothing wrong with open and honest discussion of different opinions on this board. Look back and you will notice that the topics that get the most interest and response are the ones that discuss controversial topics. I don't for a moment condone ugly and demeaning personal attacks on anyone, but some great discussions have been posted here. I, for one, have been very interested in seeing divergent opinions and have gained new insights into some things that I might not agree with. I participate on this board because I now have the time, and because I'm a great fan of HAL, and because human nature fascinates me.

Some people here are too sensitive in that they tend not to tolerate any divergent view. If you disagree with some, or point out their inconsistencies, then you are labeled a trouble maker. If you post something they don't like, they say you are "off topic", and if you are an old hand with "pull", your post is promptly removed--I know, it has happened to me. Yet, those same people can go on and on with unquestionably "off topic" stuff. ( There is a lot of smarm and fluff that has no place here but should be communicated by email), but I suspect that I'll be labeled a "troller" or "troublemaker" for saying such things. This board is not just for those who post hundreds and thousands of topics and replies, but for all who cruise HAL, and for those less frequent posters who may have different views and opinions. As I was once told---"My opinion is just as valid as yours"--and my post re tours in France was promptly removed as "off topic" ( I had suggested that HAL tourist go to the Normandy Cemetery instead of spending their money in Gay Paree--politically incorrect).

So, before Walt deletes me again, I'll just say--My opinion is just as valid as yours.So, folks, stop b------- about people with different opinions and learn a little tolerance. You fall all over yourselves pronouncing how open minded and tolerant you are about every other social question, so learn to tolerate the people who "think out of the box", as ekerr said.[/QUOTE]

Annebill - VERY WELL SAID !!!!!!!!!!!

you are right - the topics that are most popular are the controversial ones. And there have been some great debates on some of them. You are also dead on in saying "some people here are too sensitive in that they tend not to tolerate any divergent view. If you disagree with some, or point out their inconsistencies, then you are labeled a trouble maker"

As you know, I have personally experienced this from a group of regulars here - all because they disagreed with my opinion on one topic - and I had the gall to point out the inconsistency of their position on another , related topic.

As you note - this board is for everyone - not just those who are "part of the club" . Many regulars here get away with things all the time - but let someone newer say or do something a bit controversial and its flame city

Its nice to know that there are a group of folks like yourself, ekerr, joeinwp and some others who are open minded enough to think outside the box and be tolerant of others opinions. Thanks !!!

[superstein61]

[quote name='HeatherInFlorida']I think the above few posts are an open, honest debate. Hopefully that is not what anyone is complaining about. I think we know the poster who was beyond that. It seemed no matter where you went on the Boards for a few days, a certain name popped up and it was rare that the post was positive, productive or in any way informative or helpful. I would go so far as to say that it was mostly inflammatory. I was somewhat successful in making peace with this person only to see him/her all riled up on another thread.

It got to a point I was just trying to find a thread where the name didn't show up!:eek:

So I'm really hoping that's the type of thing people are upset about rather than simply not wanting to hear any opinion but their own. How boring would that be!!!:rolleyes: I come on these Boards to get other people's opinions as well as information and reviews. I have found it hugely helpful and really enjoy visiting.

Joe, I agree with you. I have trouble hitting the "ignore" button for the same reasons you do. So I haven't done it yet. But I might:)[/QUOTE]

heather - lets be honest - you are referring to me. Because I took a stand on a position about bringing alcohol on board that upset many regulars here. A healthy debate ensued that at times pushed the boundries FROM BOTH SIDES. A followup discussion ensued because a poster who argued against my position on liquor started a thread in which she and others advocated a position inconsistent with the one they argued on the liquor discussion. When I pointed that out, those regulars got quite upset.

perhaps you did not feel my posts were positive or productive - probably because my view differed from your on the issue. however EVERYONE here is entitled to their opinion. just because you may not like mine doesn't mean it isn't positive or productive.

I am a very straightforward person. You will NEVER find me being a cheerleader for HAL like some folks here. I will state and argue my position - just as others do. And I will continue to remain civil in doing so until someone else takes an unwarranted shot me - in which case I will defend myself - just as others would.

[Joedog]

Hey Annebill,

Are you referring to me here?

"If you post something they don't like, they say you are "off topic", and if you are an old hand with "pull", your post is promptly removed--I know, it has happened to me. Yet, those same people can go on and on with unquestionably "off topic" stuff."

I ask because I have never seen the term "off topic" in any other thread than the one I started (not that it might not have been used elsewhere, I just haven't seen it)

If it is, then I owe you an apology because I must not have been clear in my other posts. Just to be clear, I never labeled a post "off topic" because I didn't like what it said, I only labeled it off topic because it did not answer the specific question I had asked and I wanted people to stay "on topic" so the thread didn't take off in some other direction where the original question would get lost and never answered. If you have read any of the longer threads you must have seen that happen once or twice.

I respect everyone's opinion and believe that everyone has a right to express that opinion, no matter how unpopular or wrong it is. Just kidding about the "or wrong" part.

Keep smilin

[annebill]

Joedog, no, I was not referring to you. I wasn't aware that you had used the term. I was referring mostly to the post I had made which some considered politically incorrect and called "off topic" so it was deleted. However, the term has been used frequently in the past by many to protest other's posts.The irritating thing is that the same people who do that are VERY frequently off topic themselves, posting all kinds of personal stuff that have nothing to do with HAL or cruising. Check out ANY of these threads and you'll see what I mean. I would have no problem with it EXCEPT when they cry "off topic" in order to silence others with who they disagree---either that or resorting to labeling them "troublemakers", etc.

Well, I feel better after blowing off a little steam---it's all very silly. Right ?

[joeinwpb]

There are some on the HAL forum that find a second opinion as being divisive and all kinds of stuff. Too bad because it creates a bad [but inaccurate] opinion of the typical HAL cruiser. When you sail with HAL you find they are not like that at all. I love them.

Annebill: I thought your post about "Gay Paree" was right on. I really can't understand why they would close it down.

[HeatherInFlorida]

[quote name='iluvcruzin']
Once I partcipated in a message board where people started something that seemed to help reduce debating & arguments. It was called "I will not engage". Whenever someone posted something that another poster thought was way off.. They would post "I will not engage". This sent a message - I don't agree with you but I'm not going to spend my energy arguing it. It worked pretty well and cut down the amount of debating and arguing.

It's so much easier to agree to disagree.[/QUOTE]
[font=Comic Sans MS]Maureen, great idea!!! "I will not engage". I [b][size=3]love[/size][/b] it. [/font]