"Service charge" is coming to all NCL ships next year!!

[Dolphins]

The problem I see with this new "service charge" is that under the current program, allowing the passenger the option of reducing their $10. per person, per day fee is that it provided an incentive to employees to provide good service. Who wants to be singled out at the end of cruise for providing inadequate service? Under the "service charge" system, their tips are assured regardless of the service, so where is the incentive? In addition, when exceptional service is provided, the passenger feels obligated to give an additional tip. Under the current system, the passenger has the option of reducing the shipboard charge in one area he found wanting and give that money to employees who he feels deserved more.

[Douglase]

I"m lost what is the "POA" Cruzin Fool is talking about?

[gardencat]

POA is referring to 'The Pride of Aloha'. NCL's ship which was previously known as Norwegian Sky. It was recently renamed and reflagged and is now being used for 7 day Hawaiian cruises.

[Cruzin'Fool]

I"m lost what is the "POA" Cruzin Fool is talking about?

 

POA = Pride of Aloha, the first "Project America" ship in the NCL fleet - all American crew, and subject to American labor laws.

[johnql]

I stand by my previous post. I have never had a problem figuring out the cost of a cruise. Nor have I had any trouble dealing with the service department of any cruise line. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen to others.

[Douglase]

Ok thanks for clearing that up. If they do away with all the tipping on the ships I would not mind the service charge. And if someone in the crew went out of their way to make my cruise more enjoyable, I would surely remember them at the end of the cruise as would most other cruisers.Remember what tips stand for.

 

T.......to

I........insure

P.....prompt

S.......service

[Cruzin'Fool]

Last year there was a thread discussing this service charge, and Laura S actually was contacted by NCL regarding all the furor on CC regarding the tipping vs service charge policies. I found it on the old boards, and have copied it here for all to read:

 

"The issue of service charges has come up in the past on these boards when we first introduced Freestyle Cruising. That was something new and a lot of people could not imagine how it could work. The speculation was that the service would be terrible, the crew would not receive the money, and that cash tipping was the only way to ensure good service and fairly compensated crew. We posted some clarifying remarks, assuring you all that the crew would be properly paid and the service would be just the way we wanted it. Time has passed and this approach on our Bahamas-flagged fleet is now a way of life for both crew and passengers. Service scores have significantly improved. Our crew is happy and well paid and our passengers remark that they far prefer having a service charge added automatically to their accounts than chasing around with envelopes full of cash tips on the final evening.

 

From your point of view, as a passenger on an NCL ship today, you pay for your ticket and then on board you have $10 per person per day added to your bill. You are not asked to tip anyone individually and we do not hand out envelopes.

 

Now we are about to do something very different again: US Flag Ships with US crew. A lot of people cannot imagine how it can work. A lot of people think the service will be sub-standard. These may be the same people -- including of course our competitors -- who did not think that Freestyle Cruising could work, who did not think that Alaska cruising out of Seattle could work, who did not think that Caribbean cruising out of Texas could work, who did not think that Bahamas cruising out of New York could work or that a ship operating out of New York in the winter could work.

 

Of course we will have to do things differently with a US flag; if it were easy, everyone would do it! But difficult does not mean impossible, and because nobody has done it before does not mean it cannot work. We are very confident that by the end of this year we will once again have shown the rest of the industry to have been very unimaginative. But the fact that we will be doing many things differently behind the scenes in order to make this new venture work should not mean any difference in the vacation experience for you the passengers. And that brings us to the service charge.

 

Now there is this speculation on the service charge again. The reality is, as usual, less complex and intriguing than the speculation. We have analyzed and planned our operation very carefully. We are not going into US Flag cruising in order to feel good; we are doing it to grow our business profitably. We do not feel the need to explain in public (to our competitors) how to do it but please believe that this very important and very high profile project is one that is commanding the attention of everyone in our organization in order to make sure it works. From your point of view though, why worry about what goes on behind the scenes and what US labor laws and wage laws and overtime laws are? (Vacation pay, by the way, is not a legal requirement but it is a standard union condition.) What we are trying to do on Pride of America is reproduce as faithfully as we can the existing Freestyle Cruising experience that you and many others are increasingly coming to enjoy.

 

 

Freestyle Cruising is characterized by open seating in the main dining rooms, multiple alternative restaurants from casual to ethnic to gourmet, resort-casual dress code, and relaxed disembarkation. And, of course, in addition to these things, a key element of the Freestyle Cruising experience you are used to is that we do not ask you to stuff envelopes with cash and spend the last evening of your vacation paying our staff, as other lines do. A different experience is the standard on NCL ships: a $10 per person per day service charge is added to your bill. It's not instead of, or in spite of: it's just a different element in an overall different experience than you will find on other cruise lines. And that will be the exact same experience for you on Pride of America. You will have a $10 per person per day service charge added to your bill and you will not be given tipping envelopes or be asked (or recommended) to tip your waiters, room stewards, etc. These people will be paid a salary -- a very good salary -- and will also get vacation pay. They will not be expecting tips and we will not be recommending them. Their salaries will be more than the total compensation (base plus gratuities) received by staff on our Bahamas flagged ships. When they are hired they are told not to expect tips and we must simply pay what the competitive market in Hawaii dictates. They will be expected to provide our usual high level of service and to function as members of a service team. If they do not, they will lose their jobs. That is what happens on our existing ships and it is quite striking how peer pressure functions to maintain high overall standards and to sanction team members who are not pulling their weight.

 

Simply put, our crew costs will be materially higher than on our other ships. How can we make money? Short answer: that's our business. Longer answer: we also have cost savings such as the considerably reduced fuel bill from the lower speed itinerary and not going to Fanning Island and we have extra revenue opportunities such as selling more shore excursions while we are three times longer in port than on Norwegian Star. In the end, and with a lot of imaginative new ways of doing things (that will not affect your experience) the economic equation looks like it has enough potential for us to commit to the business in the way we have.

 

 

Many good quality land based resorts -- in Hawaii and elsewhere -- register a service charge on your bill. In fact in many cases it is a percentage of your room rate, not a flat rate as we have. It is a mark of a quality resort that staff are not hustling for tips, and that service is provided in a gracious manner whether or not you have a dollar bill in the palm of your hand and whether or not you tipped the last time a service was provided. Staff is paid a salary. We are not doing anything unusual in that regard, except that it is -- as with many of the things we do -- not what the other lines do. Our reservations agents have given you the correct information: there is no required tipping, there will be no recommended tipping, and you will not be issued with tipping envelopes. You will be asked to pay for your ticket in advance and you will be assessed a $10 service charge per day.

 

How we keep the staff happy, motivated, and service oriented is our job. How we pay our staff and how we make money with higher crew costs than we face in other trades is our job and we are confident we can succeed. You will certainly let us know if it is not working, but in the meantime we would kindly ask that the doubters amongst you simply take our brochure information at face value, and we hope the above additional perspective has been helpful.”

[Laura4cruise]

Wow. Reading this thread, all I can say is yikes, what a bad idea.

[Globaliser]

For those of you who haven't traveled to Europe, you may be interested to know all countries or all we have visited add a 10 or 15% gratutity to everything. you are expected to leave loose change as well. The service does not seem to suffer.

In fact, in many European countries there is no service charge and no expectation of any sort of tip, because the service element is already fully included in the price of your meal. This does not lead to any reduction in the level of service provided. Indeed, some of the best restaurant service in the world is provided by staff who work under these conditions.

 

The idea that not tipping removes the incentive for the staff to provide good service, and will inevitably lead to poorer service, is a complete fallacy. What leads to poor service is low morale and the belief amongst the staff that they are not being paid properly for what they are doing. Tipping is not the only way to avoid that. There is much in the point made by NCL in that statement:-

Many good quality land based resorts -- in Hawaii and elsewhere -- register a service charge on your bill. In fact in many cases it is a percentage of your room rate, not a flat rate as we have. It is a mark of a quality resort that staff are not hustling for tips, and that service is provided in a gracious manner whether or not you have a dollar bill in the palm of your hand and whether or not you tipped the last time a service was provided.

As an aside, that was a good way for the company to participate on an Internet message board. It rather underlines the unprofessional nature of NCL's response on one of the PoA threads.

[gardencat]

Globalizer

 

I agree. That was a well thought-out, well written response. I may not agree totally with the message but it was delivered in a professional manner. It kind of makes you wonder what has happened between then and now in the NCL Public Relations Department.

 

Cruzin'fool

 

Could you tell us (in more detail) where you found this?

[Cruzin'Fool]

As I said, it was on the old boards. I'll paste the address for the first page of the thread here, but I don't know if it will link automatically. You may have to type it into your address bar. The NCL response that I copied is about halfway down.

 

http://messages.cruisecritic.com/2/OpenTopic?a=tpc&s=927093444&f=477097554&m=7413050267&r=2153032567#2153032567

 

OK, I tried it, and it worked. For some reason, though, it dumps you in the middle of the thread. Scroll up to see the NCL response.

[Markandrews]

Globalizer

 

" It kind of makes you wonder what has happened between then and now in the NCL Public Relations Department."

 

 

 

I think the NCL Public Relations Department is probably tired of all the fussing and complaining about every little trivial issue. I was informed of the $10 per day Resort fee before my final payment. If it is an issue for any potential cruiser they should probably book with another line.

[catwoman15]

What did you guys tell me about restaurant fees? I have never heard that when you go on a cruise specific restaurants have a fee on board ncl ships, there has always been that when you pay for cruise, your food is including for example carnival does not charge you unless of course your paying for drinks or for tipping the cabin steward if you think she did a great job, but you thought she or he was no good why will you pay someone an extra 15%....:eek:

[gizfish]

Call me cheap, but if I cruise NCL when a "service charge" is in effect, I have no intent of tipping other than bar and spa services. When a delivery type restaurant imposes a delivery fee (most don't in my area) we deduct that amount from what we would normally tip. We tip a delivery person for preforming a service. When the company charges for that service, that tip gets diminshed. This service charge sounds like a guaranteed tip to me. Afterall, isn't a tip something given for service? It's the same ten dollars per person a day that NCL was calling a tip before they rewrote their info. I think NCL is making a mistake in making what used to be adjustable not any more. No one else in the cruise industry has done it, and as good as NCL may be, it isn't exactly THE leader in the industry to be trying out these new and controversial ideas.

[okiehorselover]

Just returned from the Sea and I must say my friend and her family were quite upset when they received in the deembarkation flyer about the $10 per person per day. We had talked about it initially when discussing what family vacation we were going to take. She forgot about it and with a kid starting college in the fall, it was a tight squeeze for them to take the cruise. Anyway, she was pretty mad. There is no information on the ticket or on the reservation confirmation about the $10 per person fee. I think NCL needs to work on clarifying this issue, or just raise the price to accommodate the service charge.

[gardencat]

Cruzin'fool

Thanks for the link. That was an interesting thread sort of like deja vu!

[Another ship trip]

I was told it would be held for crew to use when they are off contract. Call NCL and see what answer they give you. We all know that we each may get several versions of a similar answer. We did ask this question though, on the POA--where does the resort fee go? It supposedly goes to crew as a portion of their salary but they do not receive it in the same manner as one would tips.

[newmexicoNita]

Catwoman, maybe you never noticed the 15% added to your bar bill on Carnival. This is a policy on all mass marketed cruise lines:15% tip for anything from the bar. Otherwise NCL does not charge 15% for anything nor do othre mass marketed lines. Specialty restaurants are popping up on many lines now: Celeberity charges an additional $30 per person if you choose to eat in their special restaurants. Princess also has specialty restaurants. This doesn't mean you can not have wonderful meals in several main dining establishments with no additional costs. For those of you who are shocked at the additional $10 a day, remember most lines are also added that now. We still have the option of adjusting it up or down til spring of 2005. $10 per day is very little to pay for everything you receive on a ship. If you were to tip your housekeeper plus your wait staff at a 4* or better hotel it would come to more than $10 per day I am certain. NMNita

ps I am sorry for those who don't know about the $10 but what were they planning on doing about tipping at the end of the cruise? As said earlier, maybe this is why it was added. I haven't seen a brochure for several years, but there used to be a breakdown as to what amount is expected. I would think they would now stress the $10 policy as it has been in effect for 3 years I know. I'm just not seeing the point of all this. It seems some spend hours just looking for something to knit pick about. NMNita

[Jeconk]

I just read this thread and NCL's comments. All I can say is yikes!! I thought they were out of line in their comments from Yensid but this one takes the cake! "It's our business how we make money" and the other comment about it being none of our business! Holy cow. It is our business because we are paying for a service and amenities that we think we are getting. Then we keep seeing those things change and find that things they write in their brochures are lies and not accurate.

I didn't think it could get any worse than the NCL Customer Service Department and the lies they tell but I do believe the Public Relations department is in even worse shape. They just want us to mindless zombies giving our money to them with no questions. They want to hide all that is wrong. It appears that the problem is far greater than one NCL department, the policy of misleading statements and lies is rampant throughout. That tells me it goes all the way to the top. Maybe a change at the top to someone with more integrity is what is needed.

[cruisecrasy]

Thanks for posting this previous answer to the obvious...the resort fee is simply 'tips' under a different name and how many times does NCL and others 'in the know' have to tell us??? It's the same amt - $10pppd. Most cruiselines are doing this - most notably HAL 'cause their 'no tipping required' policy also confused people (it didn't mean u don't have to tip it meant tip if the service was up to 'par' which normally it was)...and the HAL crews were paid slightly more than other cruiselines at least before they implemented the new 'service charge' of 10pppd (aka 'tips)'. As far as the complaining because NCL won't let people remove the charge - they can't 'cause it has to be paid to the crew as 'vacation pay in lieu of tips (works out to same amt of $ just called something different)' - which international crews don't get - they get tips instead..! If they allow folks to remove them the cruiseline has to make that up out of profits - it's the problem with having to follow US wage laws...blame the US govt plse not NCL. I agree that sometimes we get 'dumb' answers from NCL staff but I have from other cruiselines too. Lets remember this is a 'new' service - US flagged ships - and will take time to be worked out and understood - if it isn't it will go 'belly up' as others have before it. Yes, I agree there is a possibility of poorer service as the crew knows they will receive this $ regardless BUT they can also lose their job if service is poor - again remember this is NOT NCL policy but US law. Simply put - tip only if the service is above the norm or for something extra like spa & room service!!! I do hope this answers the questions and we can move on to something more pleasant like where are u planning on going on your next cruise - much more 'fun' and productive right? Happy cruisin'!

[cruisecrasy]

Forgot to add that NCL is a business without public shareholders and also are in competition with other cruiselines - wld YOU want to give out business practises - 'secrets to success' - if u had a private business - I don't think so? As paying customers we are entitled to what we pay for not the inner workings of NCL policies etc. and why wld u expect it? I know we get 'dumb' answers and yes probably even 'lies' at times - make no mistake I have complained myself BUT I will not fault them for not answering some questions directed their way (and gee there is a lot of repetition too) - who knows who is doing the asking. Some staff are overzealous in protecting the company, others incompetent, others lazy and some tired of the 'dumb' questions over & over too but it happens in all businesses. Why just focus on all the negativity and instead look at what was written here by an NCL staffer in it's entirety and marvel at how precise, articulate and informative it is - even the almost uneducated can understand what is written if they try...and that is good communication and customer service, in my opinion anyway! Happy cruisin' all..:-)

[ron46936]

I've always regarded tips as part of the price of cruising. Only once have I considered the service bad enough to significantly reduce the tip amount (Volendam). The problem with factoring the cost into the cruise price is that Americans have the custom of tipping. If you go to a "tipping not required" policy you just get a lot of confusion like HAL had.

The whole thing is to be upfront with the charge so people are not surprised.

[cheddarcheeseball]

[quote name='Another ship trip']Cheddarcheese mentioned that everyone he spoke to on one of his cruises adjusted down or removed tips. I think that is horrid and would never fully remove tips. They may not always do a perfect job but tips are their bread and butter. If you had a bad day or two at work, how would you like your employer to say, "sorry guy, but in my opinion from the limited standpoint I had, you did a cr***y job today. I am docking your salary by today's pay." I think not. If people have become that cheap, then no wonder this is added.[/QUOTE]This was on a cruise where we didn't receive service. No service, no tip. If I were a bumbling, inept waitperson, I don't think I'd expect a tip. In fact, if I continued to perform so poorly, I'd expect that I wouldn't have a job, I'd be fired. We did receive decent service on 2 nights in the dining room, so we put cash in the hands of those that provided that service. The lines for people adjusting their tips wrapped around the lobby. Apparently not everyone thought that no tips for no service was horrid, they thought it was completely justified. This was the first time I've ever cruised that I would even dream of not tipping at least the required amount. I usually tip extra.

After we brought our concerns to the hotel manager about the service, he was the first person who said "You should remove the tips, I know I would if I were you". Well, since he wasn't going to do anything to improve the service....What choice did we have? We got very bad service, do you think we should have rewarded someone for that? On the contrary, NCL should have rewarded US in some way for putting up with it.

I have a hard time believing that anyone would tip for terrible service.

[cheddarcheeseball]

[quote name='Globaliser']In fact, in many European countries there is no service charge and no expectation of any sort of tip, because the service element is already fully included in the price of your meal. This does not lead to any reduction in the level of service provided. Indeed, some of the best restaurant service in the world is provided by staff who work under these conditions.

The idea that not tipping removes the incentive for the staff to provide good service, and will inevitably lead to poorer service, is a complete fallacy. What leads to poor service is low morale and the belief amongst the staff that they are not being paid properly for what they are doing. Tipping is not the only way to avoid that. There is much in the point made by NCL in that statement:-As an aside, that was a good way for the company to participate on an Internet message board. It rather underlines the unprofessional nature of NCL's response on one of the PoA threads.[/QUOTE]
Absolutely. I have never seen a service charge in Europe. They do charge $1.50-$2.00 pp for bread, which they put on the table whether you ask for it or not, but that is the extent of any tipping or service fee, and without a doubt, the service is usually much better than what we receive here.

Maybe 10%-15% is added in tourist trap restaurants that cater to Americans? Again, I've never seen it anywhere in Europe.

[Zeno]

[quote name='cheddarcheeseball']Absolutely. I have never seen a service charge in Europe. They do charge $1.50-$2.00 pp for bread, which they put on the table whether you ask for it or not, but that is the extent of any tipping or service fee, and without a doubt, the service is usually much better than what we receive here.

Maybe 10%-15% is added in tourist trap restaurants that cater to Americans? Again, I've never seen it anywhere in Europe.[/QUOTE]

Cheddarcheeseball: I am assuming your travelling experience in Europe has been rather limited. Having lived and worked in Europe (on the continent), I assure you that on continental Europe (as opposed to the British Isles), a service charge is very normal not the exception. In Britain the practice is less prevalent - one mainly finds service charges in upscale restaurants.