Cigarette "probable cause" Star Princess Fire

[sharecruises]

Just heard on the news, Fort Lauderdale (which is Princess area LOL)...

 

cigarette "probable cause"..which apparently is as far as they can tell, it was not from the cabin where the balcony was, but thrown or blew onto there,

 

there was NO accelerant

 

TV report said that there was a call for stricter safety measures

etc....well Princess has retrofitted their balconies I do think

 

 

 

the reports are here...from what I read, the plastic really stoked this fire,

does not seem deliberate...says NO accelerant

 

http://www.maib.gov.uk/publications/investigation_reports/2006/star_princess.cfm

 

princess reply :

http://www.princess.com/news/article.jsp?newsArticleId=na834

[LHP]

Considering the huge number of cruises that go out every week (when you combine all the cruise lines currently running) I think they have an excellent safety record.

 

I certainly won't hesitate to board one.

[DarkJedi]

Obviously someone ignored those safety warnings not to throw the butts over the side because they can blow back onto the ship.

 

Sadly some people have no respect. It's not like there aren't plenty of ash trays all over the place.

[cusyl]

I think the brisk wind certainly acted as the accelerant.

[KruznKel]

I don't think it should be stated so much as a cigarette as it should be human STUPIDITY... :mad:

[caribbean dreams]

And i hope that person knows who they are.

[DotingDale]

Cigs will kill you one way or another sometimes!

[bluefintuna]

We were aboard Crown Princess for the 9/30 sailing. They replaced our balcony partitions that week. Watching the workmen this took hours to replace just one partition. This is a very tedious job. The plastic balcony furniture has been replaced with a steel/aluminum table and chairs. I have read many accounts of the Star fire and I feel the crew did an awesome job considering the inferno they faced. A nightmare beyond comprehension.

[KruznKel]

Cigs will kill you one way or another sometimes!

 

So can walking across the street sometimes... don't start comparing apples to oranges

[KruznKel]

We were aboard Crown Princess for the 9/30 sailing. They replaced our balcony partitions that week. Watching the workmen this took hours to replace just one partition. This is a very tedious job. The plastic balcony furniture has been replaced with a steel/aluminum table and chairs. I have read many accounts of the Star fire and I feel the crew did an awesome job considering the inferno they faced. A nightmare beyond comprehension.

 

Congrats to the crew the staff and the people onboard that day! Still has nothing to do with the HUMAN STUPIDITY that caused all of it.. if in fact that is the cause (cigarette)

[jessemon]

I'm sorry,but I still don't buy the cigarette idea.

I am sure most of use have been on multiple cruiselines and have had balcony cabins. There are very few things flamable out there. Even if the chairs and lounges have cushions they have to pass what is called a pill test. That is where they put a flamable pill on that item to test its rate of spread. If it don't pass it is not manufactured.

Plastic tables and chairs...maybe if you put a torch to them.

Wood decking? I dropped a smoke on the wood floor in the house once...left a burn mark. That was many years ago and Mom was not happy.:mad:

Towels...maybe if every cabin for 3 decks and 30 cabins had them piled high on their balconies.

If you look at a balcony you see lots of steel. Maybe wood decking. Glass or steel dividers between cabins and a few peices of PVC furniture.

The other thing is they were at sea. Every time I have been at sea at night on my balcony it is to say the least damp. If not down right wet.

For those of you that believe that Princess is not trying to cover something up...Well, it makes me wonder.

Sounds more like something in the electric system went hey wire.

Think of the pics you saw and your experience of cruising on a balcony.

It engulfed the whole side of the ship...

Think people...;)

[caribbean dreams]

They say cigarette because they couldn't find any accelerant but found no cigarette either but that towel started flamming within 1 minute.

 

You have to remember, the Star Princess has alot more plastic and rubber on the balconies than Carnival ships.

 

I smoke and i know the biggest NO NO on a ship is to flick it off the side but yet i see it happening all the time, i have said things to people about it and they just give me a dirty look, same thing happens when i tell people they are smoking in a non smoking area.

 

My point is, even if by a remote chance it was not a cigarette, it will still be blamed on smokers because of the MORONS who think the rules do not apply to them.

[zydecocruiser]

where is howdyD mentioning the availability of the Princess board for this discussion?

 

i don't think there was enough evidence left for them to ever determine the true cause unless someone fesses up.

[chasetf]

I'm sorry,but I still don't buy the cigarette idea.

I am sure most of use have been on multiple cruiselines and have had balcony cabins. There are very few things flamable out there. Even if the chairs and lounges have cushions they have to pass what is called a pill test. That is where they put a flamable pill on that item to test its rate of spread. If it don't pass it is not manufactured.

Plastic tables and chairs...maybe if you put a torch to them.

Wood decking? I dropped a smoke on the wood floor in the house once...left a burn mark. That was many years ago and Mom was not happy.:mad:

Towels...maybe if every cabin for 3 decks and 30 cabins had them piled high on their balconies.

If you look at a balcony you see lots of steel. Maybe wood decking. Glass or steel dividers between cabins and a few peices of PVC furniture.

The other thing is they were at sea. Every time I have been at sea at night on my balcony it is to say the least damp. If not down right wet.

For those of you that believe that Princess is not trying to cover something up...Well, it makes me wonder.

Sounds more like something in the electric system went hey wire.

Think of the pics you saw and your experience of cruising on a balcony.

It engulfed the whole side of the ship...

Think people...;)

What is your point.. Don't believe big corporations ? They Lie !! This had to be a conspiracy !!! There was an arsonist aboard ??? :confused:

 

If you have a better answer let us know.

[jessemon]

What is your point.. Don't believe big corporations ? They Lie !! This had to be a conspiracy !!! There was an arsonist aboard ??? :confused:

 

If you have a better answer let us know.

No...I believe them...:rolleyes:

Let's blame 1 cigarette for this on the outside of a ship...cruising at 19-20 knots.

Couldn't be something was wrong with the ship...Gosh...that might not be good for business.

Very big fire for an area where most things are metal...very hot too...

By the way...no definite conclusion has been drawn yet...And even the experts don't have an answer....:eek:

[VIPBY40]

Isnt it so easy to place blame on lazy disrespeactful cig smokers! I suppose its easier for the ship to place blame as such, because surely it couldnt have been "their own fault"........

 

I wonder how well the cruise lines would do if they were "smoke" free.......and well hey while were on the subject....all of those obnoxious drunks that we see day to day.....lets have a smoke/drink free cruise......for those that are so quick to ruin "your own" holiday and are so very sensitive in these matters.....HAVE FUN.....I will so not be on your holiday causing you turmoil.......as I am so considerate.....BON VOYAGE!....

 

me.

 

ps...back to the orignal post....."**** happens".....who or what to blame is so very quick....why not blame it on the passenger and not the ship itself.....what caused the "big lean" on Princess not too long ago....was that the fault of a smokin drunk fellow that wandered in the control room and was able to grab the wheel and just spin it out of control?

 

Im done.

[jessemon]

Isnt it so easy to place blame on lazy disrespeactful cig smokers! I suppose its easier for the ship to place blame as such, because surely it couldnt have been "their own fault"........

 

I wonder how well the cruise lines would do if they were "smoke" free.......and well hey while were on the subject....all of those obnoxious drunks that we see day to day.....lets have a smoke/drink free cruise......for those that are so quick to ruin "your own" holiday and are so very sensitive in these matters.....HAVE FUN.....I will so not be on your holiday causing you turmoil.......as I am so considerate.....BON VOYAGE!....

 

me.

 

ps...back to the orignal post....."**** happens".....who or what to blame is so very quick....why not blame it on the passenger and not the ship itself.....what caused the "big lean" on Princess not too long ago....was that the fault of a smokin drunk fellow that wandered in the control room and was able to grab the wheel and just spin it out of control?

 

Im done.

Now as "Larry the Cable Guy" would say...

"I don't care where you're from...that's funny."

I loved this post...LOL:D

[chasetf]

No...I believe them...:rolleyes:

Let's blame 1 cigarette for this on the outside of a ship...cruising at 19-20 knots.

Couldn't be something was wrong with the ship...Gosh...that might not be good for business.

Very big fire for an area where most things are metal...very hot too...

 

By the way...no definite conclusion has been drawn yet...And even the experts don't have an answer....:eek:

No accelerant = no arson

No electrical problems. Did you read that part about the lighting fixtures and how they burned ? They looked for those causes, analyzing potential sources and didn't find them. But of course they didn't want to find them because that would be uh "bad for business".

 

The throughness of the report, the detailed analysis they went through convinced me. But for others (probably mostly the smokers), they want to keep looking for the magic bullet.

 

One cigarette can start a fire. In my hometown 1 cigarette destroyed 400 homes.

[jessemon]

No accelerant = no arson

No electrical problems. Did you read that part about the lighting fixtures and how they burned ? They looked for those causes, analyzing potential sources and didn't find them. But of course they didn't want to find them because that would be uh "bad for business".

 

The throughness of the report, the detailed analysis they went through convinced me. But for others (probably mostly the smokers), they want to keep looking for the magic bullet.

 

One cigarette can start a fire. In my hometown 1 cigarette destroyed 400 homes.

Please let me know where you read that report on the fixtures. I am curious. I would like to know who "they" are who did the report.

What hometown was that by the way?

[chasetf]

Please let me know where you read that report on the fixtures. I am curious. I would like to know who "they" are who did the report.

My conclusions are drawn from the report the OP cited at

http://www.maib.gov.uk/publications/...r_princess.cfm

Specifically, some of the most revealing parts of the report I cite are from the following sections of the report:

1.8 POST-FIRE SURVEY AND DAMAGE

The only electrical fitting provided on each of the balconies was an exterior light sited over the balcony doors. There was no evidence of any electrical failure or arcing on these fittings

1.9.5 Items on balconies

Lightweight plastic chairs, table and footstools (Figure 26) of the type commonly available for outdoor recreational use were provided for each balcony. The first heat detectors to activate were in staterooms C316 and C318, and items on the balcony of stateroom C316 at the time included two large cotton towels provided by the ship and draped over the plastic chairs, a bathing suit, and a pair of water shoes, all of which had been on the balcony for several hours

2.3.1 Seat of the fire

The time, location, and sequence of the activation of the smoke and heat detectors fitted, along with video evidence, the accounts of passengers, and the survey of the damage, indicate that the fire started in the vicinity of the stateroom balconies of C316 and C318, on deck 10. The alarms in these staterooms were the first to activate in the accommodation area, and the sequence of alarm activation (Table 1) shows that the fire spread upwards and aft

2.3.2 Cause of ignition

There was no evidence that accelerants were used to intentionally set the fire, and the only electrical fittings on the balconies were the enclosed light fittings above the balcony doors. The damage to the light fittings on the balconies of C316 and C318 was consistent with exposure to an external heat source; there was no evidence of arcing or failure. In the absence of any evidence to the contrary, it is considered that the most likely source of ignition was a discarded cigarette end.

[LHP]

Sadly all rules are to protect humans from humans....

 

the cig could not do anything by itself.

 

Again quoting Larry the Cable Guy..."if we can blame fires on cigarettes then I can blame misspelled words on my pencil!"

[flutepilot]

No...I believe them...:rolleyes:

Let's blame 1 cigarette for this on the outside of a ship...cruising at 19-20 knots.

Couldn't be something was wrong with the ship...Gosh...that might not be good for business.

Very big fire for an area where most things are metal...very hot too...

 

By the way...no definite conclusion has been drawn yet...And even the experts don't have an answer....:eek:

 

OK - asbestos underwear on.

 

As usual, we have the two competing sides here. The anti cigarette crowd crowing, and the smokers deep into denial.

 

The fact is that smoke was smelled nearly 15 minutes before the actual flames were noticed. This is classic for a cigarette caused fire - smouldering for several minutes before the wind finally got the thing going into actual flames.

 

The MAIB, like the NTSB here in the USA has no agenda except safety. They are sometimes a bit heavy handed, but they always go for safety. Yes, there was a lot of metal on the balconies, but there was more than enough flammable material even without a towel or swim suit drying. Once the flames started, a 30 knot (approximately 35 MPH) wind across the side of the ship was more than enough to fan the flames into an inferno. For those who do not know, the 30 knot relative wind spoken of in the article is a combination of the actual wind combined with what is caused by the movement of the ship.

 

Please read and re-read the entire report.

 

To show how much people are in denial about such things, I was on Century a week after the Star's fire. I saw somebody throw a cigarette over the side, and his attitude was 'so what?'. ...and you wonder why non-smokers get so upset?

 

As I said - asbestos underwear on.

 

Dan

[kyrisong1]

Hey flute, doesn't the asbestos itch? :p When we were on Glory in September we found a cig on our balcony, I was with my sister that time not hubby, so neither of us smoke, so it couldn't have been us (besides the fact that if I were with hubby it couldn't have been him anyway cause he's not STUPID enough to throw a smoke off the deck) I started looking around at sail aways from ports and saw people throwing paper <or nuts> couldn't tell which, I saw alot of people up on the decks throwing cigs over the side. I wish that first off people had respect, not only for the fact that we are on a vessel in the middle of the ocean and a fire could be deadly for all, but for the ocean and the creatures IN the ocean, we don't need that junk in there. But given the fact that there ARE idiots out there that have no respect or sense. What about big notices maybe taped to the mirror when you board in all cabins, or somewhere, where EVERYONE can see and explain the dangers of throwing smokes, ect. overboard? I'm in total agreement on the "you can't blame the cig for it, it's the person smoking it that decides what to do with it"

Just a thought <kicks soapbox out from under her>:rolleyes:

[ultimatemaniaccruiser]

HELLO SMOKERS. I used to smoke and I know for a fact that a cigarette could easily start a fire and start one quickly. Let's see here... I was driving down the road one day and my back seat was on fire... caused by a piece of ash from my smoke.

 

My garbage can caught on fire once when my gf at the time threw away the contents of the ash tray. This one will surprise you : a planter smoldered for weeks and burnt a huge hole in the deck after someone half put out a cigarette in it.

 

To me there's no question the star fire was caused by a cigarette. Does that mean that smoking is the root of all evil? No it just means that cigarettes can cause fires if you're not careful. Smoke 'em if you got 'em but just put them out in the ash trays when you're done. Still love the smell of a smoke but I smoked my last one ever about 4 months ago.

[sharecruises]

Since there are many debates about this on the carnival board and many who were 'waiting" for the report,

 

I think the report was pretty clear that they ruled out electric or accelerant fires, this was an accident..and most likely a cigarette

 

Yes, maybe someone threw a lit candle over their deck, but it seems most likely a cigarette

 

I think Princess is doing a good job to retrofit the balconies, but I do wonder about other lines

 

Maybe they need to have a "fine" for people who throw stuff over the rails,

and more signs, warnings, a warning in the daily paper, etc...

 

Give them a warning and then put them off the ship..

 

I also think people who are in balcony that is getting this sort of debris/cigarette butts should let someone on the ship know...they need a dedicated security or safety person JMO