POA Crew Paid Salary or Hourly?

[ssindy]

Aloha Everyone,

 

I have promised to update everyone who was interested on how the crew is paid on the POA. I had talked to the Union with the labor contract for the POA today and was informed that the crew that is under the collective bargining agrement is paid HOURLY. The crew is paid for a 60 hour work week. 40 regular hours and 20 overtime hours which is at 1.5X their regular pay rate.

 

Also keep in mind that not all crew are under the Union's collective bargining agrement because some crew are corporate employees or contracted out like the gift shop or spa workers.

 

As for the tipping questions. You are not required to tip according to the new "resort fee" that was implimented for the POA. But, if you believe that your service was worthy of a tip please tip because most of the POA crew are not paid as much as you think.

[gardencat]

Thanks ssindy

You say the crew is paid for a 60 hour week, does that mean that none of them work more than 60 hrs per week?

Someone else had posted that some crew members were working 90 hr weeks, I thought.

If some do work more than 60hrs do you know how they are compensated for this?

[Another ship trip]

Allthough I tipped on POA repo, I have been thinking about this and if paid a true salary that is competitive, I may not tip as a response to their "resort fee". Let's hope that NCL is competitively paying. IF it is not, crew will walk and ships will have problems. Ultimately NCL may have to rethink this. I will vote with my wallet if needed. If they say no tip required, I may just believe it! They are the ones who changed the rules after all.

[ssindy]

To be honest I don't know how long the crew works on the POA. But, when I was on the Sky the management tried not to have you work OT because the corporate was really tight (meanning they didn't want to pay OT). Also on the Sky the work week was 70 hours and usually no OT. But, anything over 70 hours was considered OT.

[cnmiranda]

Hello Ssindy, just found your post. Do you know exactly what the hourly wage is, and is the salary the same for all workers, or are waiters/cabin attendants, etc. paid differently? This will be helpful for me to know if we are expected to tip extra or not :confused: Thanks:D

[ssindy]

I really didn't ask what the wages were for each position but, i was really curious what the wages were for the room stewards because those people are the ones who have to service the same passengers everyday of the cruise. Unlike the waiters and busser, they don't see the same passengers every day or night.

 

The room stewards wages are $8 and change per hour for the senior stewards and $7 and change per hour Jr Stewards. Each room steward has a section of around 30 cabins.

 

I would imagine that the waiters would be paid about the same as the room stewards or maybe a little more because its harder for them to get a tip, unless its directly after the dinner seating becasue the passengers will be different every night.

[smeyer418]

Aloha Everyone,

 

I have promised to update everyone who was interested on how the crew is paid on the POA. I had talked to the Union with the labor contract for the POA today and was informed that the crew that is under the collective bargining agrement is paid HOURLY. The crew is paid for a 60 hour work week. 40 regular hours and 20 overtime hours which is at 1.5X their regular pay rate.

 

Also keep in mind that not all crew are under the Union's collective bargining agrement because some crew are corporate employees or contracted out like the gift shop or spa workers.

 

As for the tipping questions. You are not required to tip according to the new "resort fee" that was implimented for the POA. But, if you believe that your service was worthy of a tip please tip because most of the POA crew are not paid as much as you think.

 

SInce this is an American flagged vessel, even the contracted out employees will be subject to American law, overtime and minimum wages. The "leased" departments- much like they do at K-Mart where the Jewlery department tends to be leased out to someone, will have to obey US wage laws. As you might have seen over the recent furrow over the overtime laws, some management employees are overtime exempt. So the "manager" of the store might not be OT eligible. These employees must be salaried and paid a minimum amount to be considered overtime exempt. If you want to read these rules go to http://www.dol.gov/esa/regs/compliance/whd/fairpay/main.htm

I agree we shouldn't be counting other people's money. I still intend to tip appropriately over the mandatory minimum. My own personal opinion is that we have heard more than enough on this already and I applaud NCL for doing this so the among us don't stiff the hard working crew. Don't worry those that don't work hard won't be there long. While everyone is entitled to their opinion I have put a number of people on ignore! a great feature BTW. Please don't feel you have to respond to every post....so if I don't respond to your post be assured that I am ignoring you...

[gardencat]

Originally posted by Smeyer418

 

While everyone is entitled to their opinion I have put a number of people on ignore! a great feature BTW. Please don't feel you have to respond to every post....so if I don't respond to your post be assured that I am ignoring you...

 

I do not feel the need to respond to every post, on every subject, so if I don't respond to your post please be assured that I just chose not to respond to that particular post and do not be offended or feel ignored.:)

[alohacrewmom]

Can someone please tell me why people on this board are so concerned about how much the crew make? I actually KNOW in some positions but have never felt it was something that anyone other than the employee need to know so i won't be sharing that info.

 

I do not know how much the restaurant workers where I eat lunch make. I do not know how much the staff at our hotel next week will be making. I do not know how much the Disney workers will be making. I just would never think it is any of my business.

[smeyer418]

Originally posted by Smeyer418

 

 

 

I do not feel the need to respond to every post, on every subject, so if I don't respond to your post please be assured that I just chose not to respond to that particular post and do not be offended or feel ignored.:)

 

 

so why did you respond to this one? Clearly what you posted above added nothing to the discussion

[gardencat]

Sorry smeyer418 but I disagree.

A while ago, on one of the threads, a newbie member posted a message and no one responded directly to that post. The newbie then made another posting which included this :

 

 

I will be on POA on July 11th and am planning to have a great time. First cruise and first trip to Hawaii. How could it be bad? I have read all your posts, posted one that got no response (thanks for ignoring me) and have continued to be more and more upset reading them.

After reading that I hurried to let the poster know that just because no one responded directly to their post it did not mean that no one had read it or that we were choosing to deliberately ignore them.

 

Now you have told anyone reading this thread that if they do not get a response to their post they should realize that they are being ignored. Well that may be true in your case, but it is not true in mine and I wanted anyone (especially anyone new to the board) to know that.

 

As far as that message not adding anything to the discussion, I never think it is a waste of time to try and make new members feel comfortable and appreciated on these boards.

[LouChamp]

If I am provided good service by anyone in a restaurant, hotel, taxi, etc etc

I tip and in general tip in excess of what one would consider the norm. I do not consider whether or not that person is making a ton of money under union rules, making sub par minimum wage or any other factors other than the individuals treatment of me and my family. I have sailed many times on Holland America and this issue was discussed for a long time (years...maybe decades) until just recently. Nevertheless, I tipped as I would have normally tipped on other lines.

I even tip if the service was not necessarily the best but the individuals tried their best or may even be not 1000% trained but still have the respect and demeanor which I would expect. Therefore, I don't get into the nitty gritty of what they are paid but rather their particular treatment of me. I cna tell you that I have left no tips at many NYC restaurants because of terrible nasty service. In those instances, prior to finishing my dinner(although I makesure it is in my sight at all times!!!) I call over the manager and tell them why I am not leaving a tip. I don't think it is fair to have a "rule" within my own person as to whether or not I will leave a tip. On Greek line ships many years ago, the tips were pooled by Greek Union rules. I left individual tips too. I have found and don't mind paying for service. I repsect everyone elese opinion but this is how I handle these situations.

All the best!

[smeyer418]

no that is not what I said. What I said was there are some people who feel they have to respond to every posting. On occassion, I have responded to a thread when no one has posted a first response after a reasonable amount of time IF I KNEW SOMETHING ABOUT IT, not merely to be polite and say we are not ignoring you we just don't know. That IMO is different. What I am now saying to you is that you have become obsessed with this board and you are responding to almost every post on the POA as if it is your personal mission. That is not good(IMO). This adds nothing to the discussion about salaries. I suggest before you respond to any post make sure its on topic. BTW you are going on ignore now so you can say whatever you want, I won't respond. You have my email if you want to mail me. BTW I was in China(2002) and I have I know a good discount River cruise broker....

 

BTW at times you have added important information to various discussions, it is sad for me to put you on ignore but enough is enough already

[gouda]

Can someone please tell me why people on this board are so concerned about how much the crew make? I actually KNOW in some positions but have never felt it was something that anyone other than the employee need to know so i won't be sharing that info.

 

I do not know how much the restaurant workers where I eat lunch make. I do not know how much the staff at our hotel next week will be making. I do not know how much the Disney workers will be making. I just would never think it is any of my business.

You know, I really have to agree with this. It's none of our business. Whether they are or aren't making enough is between them and NCL. If it isn't right, it will be corrected. No company can stay in business with disgruntled employees (or passengers!).

 

Off topic but I was at a party Saturday where we met a successful restauranteur who owns 3 very good restaurants. He left Italy when he was 19, came to N.Y. for a few years then decided he wanted to travel so he signed on with Princess as a crewmember. I asked him about it and he said he really liked it, worked VERY hard but made good money because, lest we forget, he had no expenses. He was able to save nearly all the money he made. He did this for 3 years, then just got sick of it and he said when he got sick of it, that was it, he didn't even care that his contract wasn't up, he just wanted off. He told them he wanted off when they docked in Puerto Rico and at first they refused to return his passport until he threatened to charge them with holding him hostage. They gave him the passport, told them he had to pay his own way home so he went right to the airport and got on the next flight back to NY.

 

It has a happy ending, he's a very nice guy with a new wife, new baby and great business. You could tell he was good at his job, when the bartender at the party answered her cell phone with a guest standing in front of her he said "That would be it, if she worked for me she'd be fired immediately.";)

[patandcd]

....I guess it really is no ones business what the POA crew's wages are.

I have a good idea what resturant and other service jobs pay in the US....minimum wage. Since the POA is American flagged, I am just interested in knowing how it compares to the other ships pay. No one can deny that this ship has caused a lot of publicity and generated many more posts than any of the others. I certainly see no harm in discussing this topic. Perhaps just knowing the conditions the crew has will help people understand why some choose to leave, making the staff short handed.....which has been the reason for so many negative reviews....has it not? So, perhaps the pay is relative to the current situation and does matter to the readers.

What is difficult to understand is why gardencat is attacked by so many of the otherwise nice and helpful posters....for just being here and contributing to discussions. Most can see that she is polite, courteous and very well informed. When readers see these types of postings....it is very intimidating, causing one to "lurk" rather than post their own opinions. Just my two cents...but I do appreciate gardencat's input and insight on this board.

[cnmiranda]

Why I want to know what the crew makes is very simple.

 

If they make $10/hr plus overtime I don't feel the need to tip. If the do make less then I want to tip. There is nothing wrong with asking. This ship is unchartered territory and most are very confused as to what the resort fee actually covers.

 

Many posters talk about the "ignore" feature but they don't use it:):):) If you don't like a discussion IGNORE IT. Otherwise, can we please have a nice time chatting here? These boards are very informative. :)

 

Thank you Ssindy for answering my question, it is helpful. :D

[alohacrewmom]

I wasn't saying we should not have the discussion. I'm just trying to understand why people are curious about this. Apparently you base your tips on the amount that the staff are paid so for you that is a good reason. For me it just isn't. As an example, I also tip in spas where they make way more an hour than I do. I tend to judge my tips by the service rendered and don't always follow the "guidelines". If we just ignore, then we never learn how others think.

[cnmiranda]

Didn't mean you or any poster in general Alohacrewmom;) I like reading your posts. There just seems to be reoccuring comments where posters make statements like "stop talking about this subject because I don't like it". It is fair for those individuals to ignore the topic instead of ruining other posters enjoyment of a discussion. I always try to be friendly :)

 

This situation hits home for me because I have a relative in the service industry and switched employers because she was laid off. She went from making $12/hr plus tips to $8/hr plus tips. I am just considerate of what others salaries are and try to tip accordingly. Now some may say "this is the line of work they chose" but I also see a single parent working to support their family.

 

Again, this ship is is different than the normal tip as you go cruise, thus the discussion. I also understand that people sailing on the POA simply may not have enough $$ to tip extra with the new fees. Tipping is a very personal choice. Happy travels :):D:)

[Host CMLA]

Please keep the discussion focused on the topic and not other members or what should and shouldn't be on the board. If there are any questions or concerns about what should and shouldn't be allowed on the boards, please write to me or Laura at up4travel@aol.com. Thanks for your cooperation. These threads are valuable to some members and we'd rather keep them active rather than removing them for straying too far off topic.

[ssindy]

This is the point i am trying to make here. as a former crew member of the ss independence (which was the last US flag cruise ship) i was in a position there which was a service position and was also a tip position. i do not beleive that NCL or NCLA should dictate what my pay should be. i beleive that if i deserve get a fat tip or no tip it should be up to the passenger and with this freestyle and manditory service charge many of the passengers feel that they already dished out enough for all these added charges and dont feel like they should dish out any more $$.

 

On the SS Indy the tipping sugested amount was $3.50 per person per day or $24.50 per person per week which we were in direct service for. let me tell you i made a killing be my service that i previded. some passengers would give me $100 to $200 per week but, some passengers were cheap and would stiff me. but, its all good because i know that if i provided my passengers with great service i knew that the sky was the limit for my tips.

 

on the SS Indy:

example if i had 30 pax per week i would make around $750 per week + my salary qand i would take home nearly $4000 after taxes but if i had a more pax of course i would make more.

 

i know for a fact that the service crew like room stewards, waiters etc. dont make nearly as much a on the SS Indy because of this freestyle thing.

[Guest alexMD]

I'm confused... I thought my $10/day "resort fee" WAS a tip.

[gardencat]

I think the problem is a failure to communicte:D

Seriously, whether it was due to poor explaination on the part of NCL or poor understanding on the part of some of the crew I think many crew members thought they would be getting tips when they signed on to work on the POA.

 

Then when NCL instituted the 'resort/service fee' and told customers " no tips necessary" the crew found that their tips were way below what they expected. Add to this ( and again I don't know for sure who's fault this is) the poor organization, staffing, food ,on the ship, even generous customers who might normally leave extra tips aren't feeling inclined to give anything more for this below expectation cruise. Now, some of the crew is getting pretty P.O.ed.

They are working hard, long hours and making less than they expected so a few quit. The more who quit the worse the workload gets for those left and... the worse the tipping gets cause customers are more and more dissatisfied. Add NCL's inept management decisions (ie. you have to dine in the buffet to get a free fruit drink?) and I see pretty low extra tip levels more and more unhappy staff....

[patandcd]

Thanks for your input ssindy. It is nice to know how a crew member feels about the tipping. I know you don't speak for everyone, but to hear your viewpoint is very enlightening.

It makes one better understand the changes in NCL policy about not being able to remove the gratuity or service fees (in the future).

Obviously, you were good at what you did and enjoyed earning your tips. Have a son that worked at Pizza Hut thru college, so I know how important those tips can be.

So, if one knew how the service crew felt about this prior to sailing, one might want to take their $10pp per day and give it to the individual who was actually making their trip more pleasant(if it were removable).

I can see how this would make for a difficult situation for those in the background working just as hard but not earning any extra.

Thanks again ssindy. The only solution I can see is add the gratuity cost into the cost of the cruise and be prepared to tip extra those who give you more personal services.

At least one has a better idea of how much money to budget for a cruise.

Thanks again

[Guest alexMD]

I'm confused... I thought my $10/day "resort fee" WAS a tip.

So what's to stop a cruise line from advertising a 7 night Hawaii cruise for $300...plus an as-yet-to-be-determined resort fee of $50/p/day? Or a free cruise with a resort fee of $100/p/day? It's a bit ludicrous, don't you think?

 

In this case, it's only the crew who suffer.

[cnmiranda]

Alex, check out the loooonnnngggg thread entitled "NCL service charge in USA today". ;)