What do you think is the biggest misconception about Freestyle Cruising?

[Host CMLA]

I totally disagree that this is a myth. We just returned from the Jewel, and I can state unequivocally that wait service has suffered terribly as compared to our prior cruises. Interestingly, cabin service was as good or better than most of our prior cruises (we had 4 cabins, ranging from CC (oceanview), BA (balcony) and a penthouse - all cabin service was very good to excellent).

I'm sorry but I fail to see how you've proven that you received bad service because your tips were added to your ship board bill as a convenience to you.

[Zeno]

My Opinion:

Biggest misconception about "Freestyle" cruising :

that "Freestyle" affects any aspect of cruising on NCL in a detrimental way.

 

BTW I was on 3 "traditional" cruises before I cruised "freestyle"

 

"Freestyle" Service: the same as or better than service on the traditional cruises. Our 'best' cabin steward was on NCL; our 2nd 'best on a traditional cruise. Our waitstaff have for the most part provided us with good to excellent service on all our cruises. Our 'best' waiter was on NCL

 

"Freestyle" Dining: (For ME) a HUGE improvement on "traditional" dining. I dislike having to dine at the same time and at the same table and with the same strangers every night. I NEVER make reservations for ALL my dinners on NCL (and why on earth would I!). I usually reserve one specialty restaurant for a "special" dinner and just wing it for the other dinners. One does NOT need to dine in the "specialty" restaurants to have a good meal - on our 2nd NCL cruise, we took nearly all our meals in the dining rooms and were very pleased with the food and service (our "best ever" waiter was in one of the dining rooms).

 

"Freestyle" dress code: (For ME) a real improvement on mandatory dress codes. Resort casual suits me just fine and I really don't care what other people wear.

 

"Freestyle" Disembarkation: I really LOVE just waiting in my cabin until my colour is called. I hated waiting in crowded, noisy public rooms on my "traditiona" cruises.

 

"Freestyle" personal responsibilty - I LIKE being responsible for my vacation :

- deciding where to eat and at what time (and making those decisions like a

thinking, responsible adult - I don't turn up at a dining room on "lobster night" at 7PM and expect immediate seating and I don't turn up with a group of 14 and expect immediate seating at any time)

- deciding what to wear - do I want to dress up a little tonight or just wear a sundress - my decision

- deciding if I want to dine just with my husband or with others - it's great to know that if we choose to dine with strangers and we don't like the experience, we NEVER have to dine with these people again.

[dwrist]

I certainly hope this is not the "wave of the future" meaning I will no longer have a choice about what style of cruising I can book. If that is the case, I personally see less cruises in my future. Ultimately it is always about choices of one type or another - for us, if every cruise line chooses to switch to this, our choice would be less cruising.

 

What I don't understand is why so many proponents of "freestyle" seem to belittle those that don't care for it as much (while I quoted your post, this is a general observation, NMNita, not a specific statement to you).

 

??What I don't understand is why so many proponents of "traditional" seem to belittle those of us that don't care for traditional as much??

I much prefer the ability to plan my cruise within my boundaries. :)

[kdzgon]

I'm sorry but I fail to see how you've proven that you received bad service because your tips were added to your ship board bill as a convenience to you.

 

I believe I said the service was quite terrible compared to prior cruises, not that this was "proof" of anything per se. While perhaps I did not "prove" that it was related to the current "service charge" that has replaced tips (it was explicitly explained to us that this was a "service charge" and the staff received "salaries", of which the "service charges" were a part), by the same logic, there is no proof that it is a myth, either.

 

The fact is IN OUR OPINIONS the service was absolutely terrible by far as compared to prior cruises we had taken previously (a combined 30 or so, including some NCL cruises, the most recent 3 yrs earlier but also freestyle). Perhaps I should have specified that at a minimum the poorer wait service - in our experience - was far from a myth, no matter what the cause.

 

My comment had nothing to do with waiting time for tables, BTW. Even so, dining room waits were sometimes as long as 55 min by 7PM some nights (Azura) BUT the second "main" dining room (Tsar's) at the other end of the ship had little to no wait at the same time. The only problem with this is there was no handicap access for Tsar's (even though DH had a scooter it didn't matter to us as we had specialty reservations that night). Handicap access was also a bit of a problem without advance reservations, as the tables were simply too close - they needed to ask patrons to get up so they could move chairs to make room for passage.

 

We were never asked if other passengers could join our table, although we would have gladly agreed (we were generally 7 people, but sometimes were 10). I was unaware that you could make this request, not that it really mattered to us.

[kdzgon]

??What I don't understand is why so many proponents of "traditional" seem to belittle those of us that don't care for traditional as much??

I much prefer the ability to plan my cruise within my boundaries. :)

 

OK - I agree - I don't understand the belittling either way, but I was responding to a statement that "[i'd] better get used to it".

 

I didn't hate freestyle, but I wouldn't rush back, either. We seemed to miss most of the shows and activities that interested us because of schedules for dinner (specialty reservations as well as time to complete a meal in the dining rooms) and schedules for child care, we either had to leave an activity or we missed a show every day (sometimes both).

[kdzgon]

duplicate

[kdzgon]

So, based on one cruise on one ship, you know beyond a doubt that autotip means worse service. This sounds more like how myths begin.

 

We were on the Sun last month and service was as good, if not better than my last cruise on RCCL which has no autotip.

 

I didn't say this " know beyond a doubt that autotip means worse service" - please read my response to Host Cecilia.

[Retired not Expired]

I didn't say this " know beyond a doubt that autotip means worse service" - please read my response to Host Cecilia.

 

When quoting Cecilia's statement that it was a myth that the autotip causes poor service, you stated,

 

Quote by kdzgon "I totally disagree that this is a myth. We just returned from the Jewel, and I can state unequivocally that wait service has suffered terribly as compared to our prior cruises" Unquote.

 

That statement of yours states that you believe the autotip has caused poor service. That statement says you believe it is not a myth.

[Host CMLA]

I believe I said the service was quite terrible compared to prior cruises, not that this was "proof" of anything per se. While perhaps I did not "prove" that it was related to the current "service charge" that has replaced tips (it was explicitly explained to us that this was a "service charge" and the staff received "salaries", of which the "service charges" were a part), by the same logic, there is no proof that it is a myth, either.

OK...I get what you're saying. But I started this thread talking about the biggest misconceptions about Freestyle Cruising so when you say you disagree with my assessment, you're then agreeing that having the tips added to your shipboard account as a convenience to you is why you had bad service. You even said you disagreed with what I said. So I don't really get the point you're making.

 

I say that it's a misconception to say that service is bad because the tips are added as a convenience to the guest. Do you agree or disagree or did you just have bad service and the tips had nothing to do with it?

[vacation luvver]

<<Sorry but I have to go with Vacation Luvver on this one. While on the majesty for a 15 day repositioning cruise I nenevr had a problem with getting a sharing atbel and I found the folks to all be charming and intelligent conversationialists. On my other NCL cruises which were all seven day events, Crown and Dawn, I had only three sharing tables out of a total of 21 days cruising. The hostesses never asked and when I asked they were unable to even understand the convept, even when I complained to the Maitre d' I got no where>>

 

Someone else gets me! Maybe only another solo cruiser can fully understand what I went through. That's what happened to me - the hostesses just didn't understand the concept of sharing a table, and neither did the waitstaff, as they immediately cleared all of the other placesettings from my table, despite my protests. They couldn't understand why I wanted the placesettings left on the table (because maybe strangers would show up to be seated with me), and they must have thought that I was crazy, because those strangers never showed up.

 

However, I didn't complain to the Maitre d', because I didn't think it would do any good.

 

Maybe NCL erred in calling their new way of doing things "freestyle," because, as stated previously, people got different ideas (some completely and laughably erroneous) about what "freestyle" means. Maybe if NCL just said, "From now on, there won't be first and second sittings in the dining rooms. They will be open from this time to that time, but please check your ship's newsletter for the exact times. This applies to the specialty restaurants as well, for which you will still need to make reservations. And we are no longer designating a night when formal attire is suggested. Of course, if you wish to dress formally on any of the nights, or even every single night, you may do so," people would have a better understanding of what is going on, and they wouldn't be complaining about having to make reservations in the specialty restaurants or having to pay for those meals, because no one would be kicking the word "freestyle" around and saying, "That doesn't sound so free to me."

[kdzgon]

And in September. And on Jewel in October/November.

The only place we saw them on the Jewel last week was in Le Bistro, so either the menus have changed or we missed them somehow.

[johnql]

Perhaps I should have specified that at a minimum the poorer wait service - in our experience - was far from a myth, no matter what the cause.

I wouldn't have had any problem with such a statement. But I did have an issue with blaming it on the auto-tipping.

 

So, what caused the "very good to excellent" service provided by your cabin stewards? Was that also the auto-tipping?

[troyphoto]

While on our cruise last week, we had a nice SHARED table experience with a nice couple from Vegas that was doing back to back cruises on the dream.

 

The wife complained that she expected to not tip at all. And was flabbergasted to learn that the auto gratuity was coming out of her account.

 

She expected that "not expected to pass along cash tips" meant she didn't have to tip ever!

 

Hmmmmm. Nice and smart lady, but it goes to show how a simple statement can easily be misinterpreted.

[kdzgon]

OK...I get what you're saying. But I started this thread talking about the biggest misconceptions about Freestyle Cruising so when you say you disagree with my assessment, you're then agreeing that having the tips added to your shipboard account as a convenience to you is why you had bad service. You even said you disagreed with what I said. So I don't really get the point you're making.

 

I say that it's a misconception to say that service is bad because the tips are added as a convenience to the guest. Do you agree or disagree or did you just have bad service and the tips had nothing to do with it?

 

I cannot "prove" that the auto tips have nothing to do with it, or "disprove" it, and I did not claim my most recent experience was irrefutable proof, but rather an indication that in my experience the overall level of service has definitely gone downhill. It was not uniformly bad but rather extremely erratic in quality. We went as long as 30+ min without a single wait person stopping by the table - one night my DD actually got up and walked across the room to get coffee for the table as we still had not been served coffee a good 20 min after dessert had been served (that evening took well over 2 1/2 hrs for dinner).

 

It is my sense that it (service charges rather than discretionary tipping) has indeed had an overall effect on service over time, but that the cutbacks in general are also contributing to the decline in service - IMO, $10 per person per day split among quite a few staff members (stewards, wait staff, busboys/girls, maitre d', butlers, etc) means less $$ in the pockets of the staff. I tried to find out how much went where, but it was impossible to get an answer while on board. We ended up tipping extra when we received attentive service, so adding the service charge to our account wasn't actually a "convenience" - in the past we tipped one night, now we had to tip numerous times. (It was not that big a deal, it just was not a great "convenience", either.) We also had the tips added automatically on a "traditional" cruise a few years ago, but the difference was we had more discretion to change the amounts (up OR down).

 

I do believe it is a "myth" to think it has absolutely no effect. Many people express the same feeling at WDW with the expansion of their all-inclusive dining plan, that it is beginning to affect the service. I do agree that there are both good employees and poor employees everywhere. Some of those poor employees may eventually get weeded out but in the meanwhile they are providing poor service. I made my living on tips for approx 15 years, and I can tell you most of us *hated* pooling tips as it usually resulted in certain staff being lazy and not pulling their weight, reducing our net earnings for the night. On the nights we had to pool (usually big holidays such as Mother's Day, New Year's Eve, etc) those less ambitious employees had an income guarantee of sorts, and it showed.

 

Maybe we've just been fortunate in previous cruises in that we have never had a "bad" waiter, although we did hear numerous times that becoming a waiter/waitress was considered a promotion and was a highly coveted job.

 

So, bottom line is yes, I think it has had an effect on service but no, I do not think it is a direct and singular correlation to the "auto-tip" alone.

[shoreguy]

It is my sense that it (service charges rather than discretionary tipping) has indeed had an overall effect on service over time, but that the cutbacks in general are also contributing to the decline in service - IMO, $10 per person per day split among quite a few staff members (stewards, wait staff, busboys/girls, maitre d', butlers, etc) means less $$ in the pockets of the staff. .

 

Not the case on freestyle. In fact without the service charge their income did and would plummet. Unlike a tradition cruise where you can come the last night to reward the same people the bowed and scraped all week to make sure you did not stiff them you may never see the same crew members twice except your cabin stewards.

 

In the early days of freestyle huge numbers of passengers walked off the ship and tipped almost nobody. The wait staff was in revolt. The service charge in fact saved good service on NCL and made freestyle successful. Is it different the traditional? yes! Do you get the same intimacy with your wait staff? No.

 

That all points back to the biggest misconception the service charge reduces the level of service. In fact in makes the good/great service most of us get possible. Without it not one good waiter would remain with NCL.

 

Just my $.02 ;)

[electricron]

It is my sense that it (service charges rather than discretionary tipping) has indeed had an overall effect on service over time, but that the cutbacks in general are also contributing to the decline in service - IMO, $10 per person per day split among quite a few staff members (stewards, wait staff, busboys/girls, maitre d', butlers, etc) means less $$ in the pockets of the staff. I tried to find out how much went where, but it was impossible to get an answer while on board. We ended up tipping extra when we received attentive service, so adding the service charge to our account wasn't actually a "convenience" - in the past we tipped one night, now we had to tip numerous times. (It was not that big a deal, it just was not a great "convenience", either.) We also had the tips added automatically on a "traditional" cruise a few years ago, but the difference was we had more discretion to change the amounts (up OR down).

I do believe it is a "myth" to think it has absolutely no effect. Many people express the same feeling at WDW with the expansion of their all-inclusive dining plan, that it is beginning to affect the service. I do agree that there are both good employees and poor employees everywhere. Some of those poor employees may eventually get weeded out but in the meanwhile they are providing poor service. I made my living on tips for approx 15 years, and I can tell you most of us *hated* pooling tips as it usually resulted in certain staff being lazy and not pulling their weight, reducing our net earnings for the night. On the nights we had to pool (usually big holidays such as Mother's Day, New Year's Eve, etc) those less ambitious employees had an income guarantee of sorts, and it showed.

So, bottom line is yes, I think it has had an effect on service but no, I do not think it is a direct and singular correlation to the "auto-tip" alone.

I'm going to disagree. Auto tipping is being used or picked up by most of the cruise lines. Why are they copying NCL? They don't have to, or do they?

If you checked out why, you'll discover many International crew members were signing up for NCL instead of staying where they were. The reason, larger salaries with auto tipping. So many "experienced" crew members were switching to NCL, the other cruise lines had to follow NCL's lead just to keep their "experienced" crew members.

As for cut backs, I haven't seen any on existing ships. But, as ships become larger and larger, the rise in numbers of crew members hasn't kept pace. So, the passenger to crew ratio has become less.

For example, cruise critic states the Majesty occupancy is 1462 passengers with 620 crew, a ratio of 1462/620 = 2.35. The Pearl occupancy is 2394 passengers with 1154 crew, a ratio of 2394/1000 = 2.39. That's a siginificant drop in with the newer, larger ships. But that's double occupancy passenger loads, it's worse when you look at maximum passenger loads. The Majesty maximum capacity is close to 1700, the Pearl close to 2850. New ratios being 1700/620 = 2.74 for the Majesty and 2850/1000 = 2.85 for the Pearl.

 

But, I don't think so. But that's my subjective opinion. The service being offered is still there, just not as swift as it once was.

[FloridaGram]

Sorry but I have to go with Vacation Luvver on this one. While on the majesty for a 15 day repositioning cruise I nenevr had a problem with getting a sharing atbel and I found the folks to all be charming and intelligent conversationialists. On my other NCL cruises which were all seven day events, Crown and Dawn, I had only three sharing tables out of a total of 21 days cruising. The hostesses never asked and when I asked they were unable to even understand the convept, even when I complained to the Maitre d' I got no where and sorry to say out of the three sharing tables I found the shares to have zero to share in the way of conversation. Even though I tried to bring the conversation down to therir level of daily experience (hard sometimes with third shift folk) but the best I could get was one or two word replies. Evidently they were not thrilled to be at shared tables.

 

That is why, I say, I love NCL's ships, the fares, the food ,the decor, the service, the only thing I find objectionable is the passenger consist but I understand that is what one gets with the Mass market lines. So today taking many poster's advise I have rebooked the QE2 for a 2008 cruise. And I am already looking forward to the 95% formal nights and the sintilating conversation with my peers.

 

Maybe these people who were your tablemates picked up on your arrogant manner and that you were talking down to them from the time you sat down together. I wouldn't want to talk to someone who was "bringing the conversation down". Not all third shift people are lowlifes as you seem to think. There are military officers, doctors and nurses and I am sure of countless others who don't work 9 to 5 and certainly do not need to be talked down to.

 

You should be ashamed and enjoy the QE2 because I hope to never come across you on any of the 5 cruise lines I frequent.

[Brad1185]

The worst service I have ever had at a restaurant land or sea was on NCL.

 

The waiters on NCL just dont give a darn about NCL's customers or service.

 

Princess as "freestyle" dining. How do their waiters do such a better job than NCL? I say this, and still Princess has a lot of improvement to do but compared to NCL, they are a 1,000 times better.

 

On Princess you can get a ice tea and refills, yes refills, something you cant get on NCL. Princess even brings desert, something thats no guarantee will ever happen on NCL.

[songanddance]

Maybe these people who were your tablemates picked up on your arrogant manner and that you were talking down to them from the time you sat down together. I wouldn't want to talk to someone who was "bringing the conversation down". Not all third shift people are lowlifes as you seem to think. There are military officers, doctors and nurses and I am sure of countless others who don't work 9 to 5 and certainly do not need to be talked down to.

 

You should be ashamed and enjoy the QE2 because I hope to never come across you on any of the 5 cruise lines I frequent.

 

I guess I should just learn to never express my opinion to those who are willing to go to the wall for a cause IE - Free Style cruising.

 

I know exactly the occupation of those folks I mentioned in fact two of them had the very same position and none of them were military, medical or anything close. As to being ashamed - why would I be ashamed. When I meet someone new, I am quite polite, I ask about what they do and their lies and dislikes, where they live etc. I don't talk politics, religion or other subjects that are social no nos. But, when the other folks have nothing to offer beyond a job description, then the evening gets pretty bland and there is not much one can do about it. I do not talk down to them I just try to talk to and with them but have found it most difficult.

 

When on the QE2, I find most of the passengers can carry on a conversation about golf, antiques, opera, classical music, current events, history of many different parts of the world, medicine, decorating, engineering, historic homes and other places, fine food and beverage, dance bands and dancing. Well I coulkd go on but then I will be accused of talking down again. Other than on the 15 day cruise on the Majsety, I did not find this level of conversation available in any venue on my other NCL cruises.

[newmexicoNita]

I certainly hope this is not the "wave of the future" meaning I will no longer have a choice about what style of cruising I can book. If that is the case, I personally see less cruises in my future. Ultimately it is always about choices of one type or another - for us, if every cruise line chooses to switch to this, our choice would be less cruising.

 

What I don't understand is why so many proponents of "freestyle" seem to belittle those that don't care for it as much (while I quoted your post, this is a general observation, NMNita, not a specific statement to you).

Thanks and I am glad you are not directing this to me as I am a strong supporter of choice. This being said: I don't think total traditional dining will disappear in the next couple of years, but with the change of style period, everything leaning toward casual, I do think the time will come when cruising will be totally formal optional or non exisisting and dining times will be similar to resort dining; when you want. NMnita

[newmexicoNita]

The worst service I have ever had at a restaurant land or sea was on NCL.

 

The waiters on NCL just dont give a darn about NCL's customers or service.

 

Princess as "freestyle" dining. How do their waiters do such a better job than NCL? I say this, and still Princess has a lot of improvement to do but compared to NCL, they are a 1,000 times better.

 

On Princess you can get a ice tea and refills, yes refills, something you cant get on NCL. Princess even brings desert, something thats no guarantee will ever happen on NCL.

What the devil are you referring to? I have never, in 20 plus cruises not been able to get a refill on my beverage, NCL, RCI regardless of the line: as for dessert same thing< one time on RCI they did forget to bring our desserts and coffee, but that would be the only time. I don't know what your situation is or how many times you have cruised and with what lines, but obviously you prefer tradtional dining. That is your choice, you are not alone, but to make statements like you are making needs a little explanation. NMnita

[mbisson]

sorry to say out of the three sharing tables I found the shares to have zero to share in the way of conversation. Even though I tried to bring the conversation down to therir level of daily experience (hard sometimes with third shift folk) but the best I could get was one or two word replies. Evidently they were not thrilled to be at shared tables.

.

 

I'm afraid that your opinion of them may have come across :eek: . Such as the superiority you have above 3rd shift folk, and your feeling you needed to "bring the conversation down to their level" ;) . You're right, they probably weren't thrilled to be at a shared table---with you.

 

-Monte

[samtig]

The way I figure it, how much money someone has or doesn't have does not determine whether they are worth talking to or not. What kind of person they are determines this. Kind of a weird.......

[mbisson]

The way I figure it, how much money someone has or doesn't have does not determine whether they are worth talking to or not. What kind of person they are determines this. Kind of a weird.......

 

I don't think that's weird at all.

 

-Monte

[johnql]

What the devil are you referring to? I have never, in 20 plus cruises not been able to get a refill on my beverage, NCL, RCI regardless of the line: as for dessert same thing< one time on RCI they did forget to bring our desserts and coffee, but that would be the only time. I don't know what your situation is or how many times you have cruised and with what lines, but obviously you prefer tradtional dining. That is your choice, you are not alone, but to make statements like you are making needs a little explanation. NMnita

Don't even bother trying to have a civil discourse with Brad. He has a longstanding ax to grind against NCL - ever since he was charged for fresh-squeezed OJ on an NCL cruise. He takes every opportunity to bash NCL regardless of the facts.