Saga Rose Greenland Voyager August 2007

[Kapricorn]

I don't want to contradict you Donald, but I suspect Mr Ward has not sailed on every ship. Some of the write ups on ships I have been on bear little resemblance to the actual ship itself and seem to be from press releases and the such. The errors then get perpetuated in each edition.

 

That's fine with me if I get corrected on some facts. That's the only way I can learn. I've often wondered how Mr. Ward had the time and money to sail on 250 cruise ships.

 

I suspect that when cruise lines are aware that he is on any of their ships, they instruct that ship's staff to double-clean everything and show him every courtesy, which would influence his ratings.

 

Donald.

[dougnewmanatsea]

Douglas Ward has a number of people that work for him.

 

I think someone sails on every ship that gets a rating. He can't sail on all of them personally, but he does sail on quite a few.

 

The number of errors seems to have gone down recently. For a while around 2000 or so it was really appalling. Mr. Ward had some health problems and I think the book suffered from less of his direct input.

[Kapricorn]

I entered "Douglas Ward" on the search engine and came up with a few links.

 

Mr. Ward has completed more than 5,000 days at sea, participating in more than 900 cruises, over 150 transatlantic crossings, and countless Panama Canal transits. He has traveled to over 1,800 ports of call.

 

Mr. Ward made his first transatlantic crossing in 1965 and then worked for nine different cruise lines over the next twenty years before starting to write about cruising. He is said to spend eight months of the year at sea. Doug Newman is probably correct about Mr. Ward having staff to take cruises on his behalf, especially during the other four months of the year.

 

Can any of you cruise for eight months of the year? I don't think that I could do it, as I imagine that the thrill would quickly evaporate after a couple of weeks. I like having cruises booked every so often in advance, to give me something to look forward to.

 

Donald.

[dougnewmanatsea]

Eight months out of the year is a bit much, but I could probably handle it. Now, could I do it for 20-odd years as he has? I might get bored after a while.

 

I've spent at most a month at sea in one year.

[franu]

I have just received a mailing from HAL in which they advertise a cruise on the M/S Amsterdam to SA and Antarctica. "Enjoy a truly unique white Christmas as you cruise past Antarctic glaciers and islands."

 

At the bottom of the page the following disclaimer is made. "Note: Visits by cruise ships to the Antarctic require government approval. Holland America Line has obtained approval for this cruise. There remains a possibility, however, that this approval could be withdrawn if a change is made in applicable government requirements."

 

I am thoroughly puzzled by the last statement. There is no government of Antarctica. What "government" has the right to approve cruise ships travelling there? I am still shaking my head.

 

My personal opinion is that ships with ice strengthened hulls or double hulls should be the only ships to sail in that area. If a behemoth struck an iceberg how could all of the pax be rescued in a timely fashion.

 

I, personally, do not believe that a ship that cannot disembark its pax in Antarctica provides nothing that cannot be had viewing a movie. It is a potentially dangerous game being played for the "big bucks".

Fran

[Kapricorn]

My personal opinion is that ships with ice strengthened hulls or double hulls should be the only ships to sail in that area. If a behemoth struck an iceberg how could all of the pax be rescued in a timely fashion.

Fran

 

Judging from two recent noteworthy cruise ship sinkings, the Behemothdam, after suffering a 7 inch by 4 inch gash in its bow from striking an iceberg, will gradually list over a period of 8 hours before finally sinking. That should be sufficient time to evacuate all of the 4,800 passengers and 1,200 crew in its lifeboats.

 

Donald.

[dougnewmanatsea]

I am thoroughly puzzled by the last statement. There is no government of Antarctica. What "government" has the right to approve cruise ships travelling there? I am still shaking my head.

The only government I can think of that would be involved is the government of the Netherlands, the ship's flag state.

 

There is something called the Antarctic Treaty Secretariat but that is largely a "paper" organization.

[Host Sharon]

Judging from two recent noteworthy cruise ship sinkings, the Behemothdam, after suffering a 7 inch by 4 inch gash in its bow from striking an iceberg, will gradually list over a period of 8 hours before finally sinking. That should be sufficient time to evacuate all of the 4,800 passengers and 1,200 crew in its lifeboats.

 

Donald.

 

True, but would they then slowly freeze to death before sufficient rescue ships could reach them. I heard a crew member on my Arctic cruise say that those in that Antarctic sinking were lucky as it was a small ship. If it had been 3000 passengers, it may well have had a different outcome......not that we are trying to put you off Ruby. I'm sure it will be a cruise of a lifeltime.

[franu]

True, but would they then slowly freeze to death before sufficient rescue ships could reach them.

 

I agree! The behemoths are not built for cruising in Arctic or Antarctic waters. I also wonder if the captains are experienced in these conditions.

 

The Antarctic should be seen by people who want to touch the ground and taken there in ships that are specifically made to handle the seas and the weather.

 

I believe that this was the best cruise ever. No namby-pamby whining people, people who had dreamed about this and wanted to experience it first hand. It was incredible and I am certain that we will have raves coming from Irving, Texas when you return.

Fran

[Saga Ruby]

True, but would they then slowly freeze to death before sufficient rescue ships could reach them. I heard a crew member on my Arctic cruise say that those in that Antarctic sinking were lucky as it was a small ship. If it had been 3000 passengers, it may well have had a different outcome......not that we are trying to put you off Ruby. I'm sure it will be a cruise of a lifeltime.

 

No worries, ships cat. I have often said that my greatest fear is that my obituary will read, "She died in Irving, Texas." I have little fear of death - it's the process I'm a bit uneasy about. I absolutely agree with you that thousands of people adrift in icy conditions cannot have a good result - the panic factor alone would be difficult to control. I'll gladly take my chances in a tiny ship in Antarctica.

 

About governmental oversight of Antarctica - we know there is a rule about limiting the number of people landing at one time on that continent. I don't know if a bunch of countries' representatives sat around a table and had a show of hands to set that number, but Antarctica is not an anarchical continent. Somehow, some way, there is more than just "paper" oversight.

 

Ruby

[CGTNORMANDIE]

Interesting discussion on Doug Ward. Mr. Ward has a natural affection for Cunard and tends to base his reviews against the food and service of the Queens Grills. Not all of his pronouncements have been accurate over the years but he is thorough and generally dependable for a fair and balanced report. The problem is that not all cruises are the same and some very good ships have been panned by Mr. Ward and his organization just because the particular voyage they were on was not up to standards..."it happens"...as they say.

 

I have been a Doug Ward, Berlitz reader since he published his first book.

Doug Ward took his first voyage on the old QUEEN ELIZABETH in late July of 1965...and he was hooked on ships. He sailed on the QE as the replacement trumpet player for Freddy, who I knew. Freddy was leaving the ship when we pulled into Southampton around July 20, 1965. I just missed Doug Ward by one voyage...LOL.

[Kapricorn]

The problem is that not all cruises are the same and some very good ships have been panned by Mr. Ward and his organization just because the particular voyage they were on was not up to standards..."it happens"...as they say.

 

On the cruise message boards, people may have different opinions about the same cruise. One might say that it was the best ever, while another might grumble that it was the worst ever. Mr. Ward's opinions and ratings in his book is just that - one person's viewpoint. Though he has high standards, his book is overall an excellent guide to cruising and cruise ships.

 

Donald.

[dougnewmanatsea]

About governmental oversight of Antarctica - we know there is a rule about limiting the number of people landing at one time on that continent. I don't know if a bunch of countries' representatives sat around a table and had a show of hands to set that number, but Antarctica is not an anarchical continent. Somehow, some way, there is more than just "paper" oversight.

I think the limit on the number of visitors is self-imposed by the IAATO (International Association of Antarctic Tour Operators).

 

For countries that are parties to the Antarctic Treaty, the treaty is part of their national laws, and they have the power to enforce those laws. But these laws only apply to citizens of those countries, or within the borders of those countries.

 

It is all very complicated, because there is no central authority regulating what goes on in Antarctica. What rules exist are basically there by mutual agreement and without anyone enforcing them.

[Saga Ruby]

About Douglas Blair - I recently read a book written by a Lonely Planet writer, Do Travel Writers Go to Hell? He was given a small budget by the publisher, assigned the northern coast of Brazil, and a few weeks to travel the region and gather information on food, sights, hotels, and other local treats. Under the best of circumstances, it would have been difficult to cover that much territory, gather that much information, and compose the articles in the time allotted.

 

And the Brazil assignment might have all worked out if the writer hadn’t blown his entire LP budget on sex, drugs, and rock n’ roll while enjoying the hedonist lifestyle in Rio, his first stop on the way to the northern Brazilian coast. He was a young man reluctant to leave the gaudy, exciting culture of the Cariocas in Rio and it all predictably blew up in his face.

 

What’s amazing is the ending which I will now spoil for you - he is still a traveler and writer for Lonely Planet. Surely this kind of scenario is not unusual for most travel guidebooks which attempt to bring out a new version each year.

 

A tip of the hat to Lonely Planet for accepting the shortcomings of their travel writers, but for "new" versions of travel books, I wouldn’t necessarily take it as gospel. Let’s just say that a guidebook report on a local area is sometimes a bit of a shorthand version gained from the locals.

 

Ruby

[Kapricorn]

I've heard of neither Douglas Blair nor Lonely Planet, but then I just don't frequent the travel sections of bookstores. Isn't that weird, what with me loving cruises! Thanks for the background information about Douglas Blair.

 

Donald.

[Saga Ruby]

To our Americans friends - I hope you have a marvelous Fourth while always remembering how lucky we are to live in the United States.

 

To our British friends - thanks for the colony!

 

Ruby

[Kapricorn]

Happy Glorious Fourth of July to our American friends!

 

Canadians celebrated our Canada Day on July 1, and we also feel lucky to live in Canada. :)

 

Cheers,

Donald.

[franu]

And I am the luckiest one proudly having dual US and Canadian citizenships. Wishing you a safe and happy holiday.

 

Michael, I hope that you and your loved ones are safe from the fires and smoke that are in your area. It must be frightening to to see what is going on around there.

Fran

[Druke I]

Thanks for your kind thoughts re the California fires.

 

Although we are not in the direct fire zone (North, South, and West of us), we have had very heavy smoke, which is finally starting to dissipate. That made it somewhat difficult on my old tired lungs - but some respiratory therapy (3 nights in the hospital) did help a lot.

 

There are still over 1,000 fires burning out West!

[Host Sharon]

Happy Fourth of July. God willing, I will be in Boston for the next one, travelling by sea !

 

Sorry to hear about the fires Michael. It will be little comfort to hear we are having yet another rain soaked summer so far!

 

Can anyone tell me if any shops open on the Fourth of July, or do they all shut for the holiday?

[Saga Ruby]

That made it somewhat difficult on my old tired lungs - but some respiratory therapy (3 nights in the hospital) did help a lot.

 

Michael, I was sorry to read about your hospital visit and send all best wishes for your continued recovery. Here's to sunny skies and a safe, smoke-free environment for you and Virginia.

 

Happy Fourth of July. God willing, I will be in Boston for the next one, travelling by sea ! Can anyone tell me if any shops open on the Fourth of July, or do they all shut for the holiday?

 

The major stores in the US are open for the Fourth, but some of the small-business, owner-owned businesses might be closed. So you can shop for clothes and food and go to Wal-Mart, but the boutique-type shops could be hit-or-miss unless they are located in a shopping mall.

 

Donald - Bon voyage! I hope your Mercury Alaska cruise is a success. Are you walking to Canada Place or taking a cab? I am sooo envious that you live "down the street" from your embarkation point.

 

Ruby

[seabourndt]

just coming back from SAGA RUBY quite liked the trip, love seeing the old ship again. just little things, no transfer booked for me, and others. the weather was good especially in AMSTERDAM. saw my old cabin as i got an upgrade. took no excursions as been there before. loved going to ROTTERDAM TO SEE EURODAM. missed the naming though.

dave

[Saga Ruby]

Good to see you back and in fine fettle. Interesting that the transfer wasn't booked - was that the transfer to the ship or coming back to Dover? I do love those old ships - the new ones are a bit too glitzy for me.

 

Did you feel that the quality was good? Was the experience worth the tariff?

 

Ruby

[Kapricorn]

Donald - Bon voyage! I hope your Mercury Alaska cruise is a success. Are you walking to Canada Place or taking a cab? I am sooo envious that you live "down the street" from your embarkation point.

 

Welcome back, Dave! Glad to hear that overall you enjoyed the cruise.

 

Ruby, this year in Vancouver Celebrity is using Ballantyne Pier which is in an industrial section of the city, maybe a mile east of Canada Place. My friend will drive me there. It's probably three to five minutes longer by car from my home than to Canada Place. I think that it is cheaper for Celebrity to use Ballantyne Pier.

 

Thanks for the Bon Voyage, and I'll post some of the highlights after my return.

 

Donald.

[Host Sharon]

Thanks Ruby for the information. I'll proably just wander round the centre and take pot luck, although I suspect my friend has ideas of dragging me to baseball game.

 

Have a great cruise Donald.