The Morphing of X

[imacruizer]

There are quite a few changes taking place on Celebrity ships.

The Dance hosts are gone.

Just curious: which lines still have an official dance hosts program ??

Cheers

:confused:

 

The QM2 still has dance hosts. I would assume the QE2 does also.

[Dale]

I don’t mean to muddy up the waters. There are premium cruises available for those that wish to take one. There’s a catch, you have to pay a premium price. Remember the saying, you get what you pay for.

The onboard credit and the stock credit combined are not available on other cruiselines. Are we sure about this ?? I tought CCL offers stockholders the same type of benefits RCL does, for all the lines in their stable...Maybe I'm wrong. And the shipboard credit for onboard bookings are, I beleive, the oldest benefit available on pretty well all major lines....If X wants to adopt the features of other lines then it had better offer the benefits of other lines as well.

CHEERS ;)

Your right, your wrong. As a long time shareholder and many time recipient of Carnival shareholder benefits, I’ll give you an example of how their benefit works. The benefit for 7 days is $100, if you had $50 onboard credit of any kind your shareholder amount will be reduced to $50.

Which leaves you with $ 100.

With RCL you have the $100 added to the $50 giving you a total of $150.

[Sky Sweet]

I don’t mean to muddy up the waters. There are premium cruises available for those that wish to take one. There’s a catch, you have to pay a premium price. Remember the saying, you get what you pay for. .

 

Hi Dale :)

 

That is true, but Celebrity was comparable to a Hyatt for people who wanted an upscale cruising experience, without paying Ritz Carlton prices. Even though a Hyatt is not as luxurious as a Ritz Carlton it is superior to most of the mainstream hotel chains. Similarly, Celebrity was not as premium as Crystal, but superior to most of the mainstream cruise lines.

 

In the past I didn't mind paying a little more for Celebrity because I felt it was a good value. Now that Celebrity is offering a number of cheap cruises while eliminating much of what distinguished them from other mass market lines, I am a little apprehensive about what their product will be in the future.

 

I have a feeling that some marketing expert advised Celebrity that it is more profitable to offer cheap cruises with less services, and they are rethinking their long term strategy.

[caviargal]

 

I have a feeling that some marketing expert advised Celebrity that it is more profitable to offer cheap cruises with less services, and they are rethinking their long term strategy.

 

That would be RCI's management team, I suspect, who rack up good profits, sail with full ships and have also altered their product to a point where it no longer resembles the RCI of years past.:( I predict that we will see the same decline in standards and amenities with X.

[sad mama]

That would be RCI's management team, I suspect, who rack up good profits, sail with full ships and have also altered their product to a point where it no longer resembles the RCI of years past. I predict that we will see the same decline in standards and amenities with X.

 

Well I hope this is not the direction of the future for X. It has been rather surprising to read about the decline in preventative maintenance on some of their ships but then it makes sense when you see all the other areas where they are starting to cut services.

 

There was a recent article in a travel magazine that said Celebrity is cutting prices on their Caribbean cruises in an effort to fill empty cabins and compete with the likes of Carnival (Century 4 night cruises can be had for as little as $189.00 for an inside cabin which equates to a per diem of less than $50.00 and Galaxy has fire sales for each cruise). So perhaps the lower levels of service will be limited to those competitive routes where cabins are not selling rather than fleet wide. I mean what sort of food and services would you expect for such a low per diem.

[RLM77]

The onboard credit and the stock credit combined are not available on other cruiselines. Are we sure about this ?? I tought CCL offers stockholders the same type of benefits RCL does, for all the lines in their stable...Maybe I'm wrong. And the shipboard credit for onboard bookings are, I beleive, the oldest benefit available on pretty well all major lines.[/quote]

 

This is from the investor relations page of Carnival Crp. detailing their shareholder benefit and limitation:

 

 

Carnival Corporation & plc is pleased to extend the following benefit to our shareholders:

 

North American Brands United Kingdom Brands Continental European Brands Australian Brand Onboard credit per stateroom on sailings of 14 days or longer US $250 £ 125 250 AUD 250 Onboard credit per stateroom on sailings of 7 to 13 days US $100 £ 50 100 AUD 100Onboard credit per stateroom on sailings of 6 days or less US $ 50 £ 25 50 AUD 50

This benefit is applicable on sailings through July 31, 2007 aboard the brands listed below. Certain restrictions apply. Applications to receive these benefits must be made prior to cruise departure date.

 

This benefit is available to shareholders holding a minimum of 100 shares of Carnival Corporation or Carnival plc. Employees, travel agents cruising at travel agent rates, tour conductors or anyone cruising on a reduced-rate or complimentary basis are excluded from this offer. This benefit is not transferable, not combinable with any other shipboard offer and cannot be used for casino credits/charges and gratuities charged to your onboard account. Only one onboard credit per shareholder-occupied stateroom. Reservations must be made by February 28, 2007.

 

Carnival Corporation | Investor Relations | Shareholder Benefit

[Sky Sweet]

That would be RCI's management team, I suspect, who rack up good profits, sail with full ships and have also altered their product to a point where it no longer resembles the RCI of years past.:( I predict that we will see the same decline in standards and amenities with X.

 

Hi Caviargal :)

 

If Celebrity does plan to cut costs, which ones could you live with?

 

These are the ones that would make me jump ship....less favorable crew per passenger ratios, deferred maintenance, inferior food, and something more subtle. One of the things I love about Celebrity is that we always meet the nicest people, and have had great table mates at dinner. If the demographic changes from passengers who we connect with to people we have nothing in common with, that would be a greater problem for me than anything else.

[Sky Sweet]

That would be RCI's management team, I suspect, who rack up good profits, sail with full ships and have also altered their product to a point where it no longer resembles the RCI of years past.:( I predict that we will see the same decline in standards and amenities with X.

 

Hi Caviargal :)

 

If Celebrity does plan to cut costs, which ones could you live with?

 

These are the ones that would make me jump ship....less favorable crew per passenger ratios, deferred maintenance, inferior food, and something more subtle. One of the things I love about Celebrity is that we always meet the nicest people, and have had great table mates at dinner. If the demographic changes from passengers who we connect with to people we have nothing in common with, that would be a greater problem for me than anything else.

[SleepingUgly]

It is interesting how so many people equate a cruiseline's lowering of standards to its efforts to cater to more families with young children. Please allow me to respectfully disagree -- families who love to travel does not necessarily mean they will be loud-mouthed, obnoxious and "class-less" passengers at whom older people can shake their heads.

 

We've always believed in taking our children with us when we traveled. My parents did this when I was a child, and our travels opened my eyes to a world beyond our comfortable little subdivision. I learned how to handle myself in different situations, how to speak correctly with adults, and how to properly behave in public. We are now doing this with our two young daughters. I'd like to say that they behave beautifully 100 percent of the time, but being children, of course they do not. However, I as their parent, make sure that I nip whatever unacceptable behavior in the bud, and I do not permit them to annoy or bother others around them.

 

Also, just because we travel with kids does not mean we are automatically Holiday Inn-type folks. When traveling abroad (and we've taken the kids to Europe several times), we tend to stay at hotels such as the Four Seasons and Loews. These are two good, upscale hotels that cater to families with children. So yes, it is possible to cater to families with young kids, and still maintain that sense of decorum and civility. It is simply up to the ship's staff to enforce it, and they should enforce it among all passengers, regardless of age.

 

However, C2C, I do agree with you -- most cruiselines that cater to families do not maintain or encourage any proper decorum on its ships. Ironically, this is one of the reasons we chose Celebrity for our next cruise -- because the line does not market as much to families as does RCCL or Carnival (shudder). However, I assure you and others traveling sans children that my daughters are well-behaved and I do my best, as their parent, to keep them in line. Case in point -- We were leaving a friend's house last night and the hostess politely said to my daughters, "Thank you for coming, girls." And my 4-year-old, without prompting, automatically replied, "Thank you for having us, Ms. Sue." I was proud, and everyone was impressed. And that is a sad state of affairs, no, when adults express surprise at a child with manners, for isn't that how things should be?

 

Linda

[caviargal]

Hi Caviargal :)

 

If Celebrity does plan to cut costs, which ones could you live with?

 

These are the ones that would make me jump ship....less favorable crew per passenger ratios, deferred maintenance, inferior food, and something more subtle. One of the things I love about Celebrity is that we always meet the nicest people, and have had great table mates at dinner. If the demographic changes from passengers who we connect with to people we have nothing in common with, that would be a greater problem for me than anything else.

 

Sky Sweet, I fear they have already pushed me away by adopting a wine policy which I find unattractive; lowered standards of maintenance that I have observed on my Mercury;lowered standards of service on both Mercury and Century; disregard for any dress standards in the dining room; pod problems which certainly prevent me from chancing one of the M class ships for my large groups.

 

Linda, the marketing of cruises to families has resulted in several changes IMO. It is my preference to cruise on ships focused on the adult market and not those that have adapted their style and services to better engage the family market. When I take land vacations, I choose adult only or adult oriented hotels and resorts for this same reason. It is simply my preference.

[C 2 C]

This benefit is available to shareholders holding a minimum of 100 shares of Carnival Corporation

 

You can receive the Stock credit OR the on board booking credit... not both.

Celebrity will give up to $450 on long sailings.

As long as the pricing remains attractive when I do the math on cabin cost minus the credits +/- the perks I will choose the option most favorable to me.

 

If the demographic changes from passengers who we connect with to people we have nothing in common with, that would be a greater problem for me than anything else.

 

Sky Sweet I agree totally. If X now allows shorts in the dining room without a challenge, and this guy sits at my table, the maitre'd will be called over to remove the guy or move me to a table with similar cruising values. I would do the same if the guy wears a muscle shirt, ball cap or jeans on formal night. It is not the dress code that is disturbing, it is the attitude that anything goes and a show of disrespect towards others. It probably also shows a generational attitude towards certain types of behavior. It might be OK in X's market strategy to be all inclusive but it certainly has forced me to evaluate my preferences.

...birds of a feather fly (cruise) together... :)

[caviargal]

C 2 C, I saw all the dress violations you described and worse on my Century cruise, at the two tables on either side of us. Sweats, jeans, ball caps, sneakers, wool caps, shorts at dinner in the dining room.

[BILLP1]

I understand your post regarding your children who travel well and are well behaved but there are a lot of people who cruise who do not always come across well behaved children on a ship. Read the post from the past holiday season..

 

A lot of adults prefer a more quiet adult cruise to engage in conversation with new friends at dinner and not sit at a table with kids no matter how well behaved they are...

[richsea]

(Century 4 night cruises can be had for as little as $189.00 for an inside cabin which equates to a per diem of less than $50.00 and Galaxy has fire sales for each cruise).

 

Please give me an example of a Galaxy fire sale. I have yet to see Galaxy listed on Celebrity's happy hour sailings during this Caribbean season.

[SleepingUgly]

I understand your post regarding your children who travel well and are well behaved but there are a lot of people who cruise who do not always come across well behaved children on a ship. Read the post from the past holiday season..

 

A lot of adults prefer a more quiet adult cruise to engage in conversation with new friends at dinner and not sit at a table with kids no matter how well behaved they are...

 

I completely see your point, of course, but does this mean that families with children who prefer to travel in a more refined environment have no choice? We will either have to suffer through the misbehaviors and frat-party antics of the "mass market" cruiselines, or suffer the angry glares of other passengers on lines such as Celebrity? Where will we be able to feel welcome AND comfortable???

 

And to think that for my parents' 40th wedding anniversary this December, I was thinking of having all of us to go on a Crystal Cruise. Egads -- they may not even let us on board when they see that we've got rugrats with us! :D

 

Linda

[SleepingUgly]

My sincere apologies for the double post ...

[Dale]

Hi Dale :)

 

That is true, but Celebrity was comparable to a Hyatt for people who wanted an upscale cruising experience, without paying Ritz Carlton prices. Even though a Hyatt is not as luxurious as a Ritz Carlton it is superior to most of the mainstream hotel chains. Similarly, Celebrity was not as premium as Crystal, but superior to most of the mainstream cruise lines.

 

In the past I didn't mind paying a little more for Celebrity because I felt it was a good value. Now that Celebrity is offering a number of cheap cruises while eliminating much of what distinguished them from other mass market lines, I am a little apprehensive about what their product will be in the future.

 

I have a feeling that some marketing expert advised Celebrity that it is more profitable to offer cheap cruises with less services, and they are rethinking their long term strategy.

I agree 100% with what you have stated. I, like Arno, feel the solution to the problem, that some are having, is to consider another cruise line. Arno, has expressed that he will be doing so in the future. My wife and I had a most pleasant experience onboard the QM2 this past October. I must admit I had high expectations from what I had been reading on the Cunard board. In some respects I had set my expectations to high. But at the end it was a good trip. The biggest surprise was the food. Dining in the Britannia Restaurant was a delight. Probably the best waiter, assistant waiter, sommelier and table captain we have ever had in 28 years of cruising. We paid more for this cruise, but the additional cost was worth it. As you said it was comparable to a Hyatt for people who wanted an upscale cruising experience, without paying Ritz Carlton prices.

[c-legs]

I don’t mean to muddy up the waters. There are premium cruises available for those that wish to take one. There’s a catch, you have to pay a premium price. Remember the saying, you get what you pay for.

 

Your right, your wrong. As a long time shareholder and many time recipient of Carnival shareholder benefits, I’ll give you an example of how their benefit works. The benefit for 7 days is $100, if you had $50 onboard credit of any kind your shareholder amount will be reduced to $50.

Which leaves you with $ 100.

With RCL you have the $100 added to the $50 giving you a total of $150.

:o Thanks a lot for the clarification.

Appreciate that.

So, RCL DOES have a bit of an advantage still....

 

Cheers

;)

[Dale]

:o Thanks a lot for the clarification.

Appreciate that.

So, RCL DOES have a bit of an advantage still....

Cheers

;)

I’m sure all lines have their advantages and disadvantages and in this respect RCL definitely has the advantage.

May all your dreams come true in 2008. Here’s a picture of one of my little Norwegian friends that will be pulling for you. Real nice guy, met him 3 years ago in Geirangier Fjord.

:D :D

[Arubalisa]

I don’t mean to muddy up the waters. There are premium cruises available for those that wish to take one. There’s a catch, you have to pay a premium price. Remember the saying, you get what you pay for.

I could not agree with you more.

 

With that being said, it IS all about the STOCKHOLDERS.

Royal Caribbean Reports Record Fourth Quarter 2006 Earnings

PR Newswire via Yahoo! Finance Mon, 05 Feb 2007 5:00 AM PST

Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd.

 

Royal Caribbean Swings to 4Q Profit

AP via Yahoo! Finance Mon, 05 Feb 2007 5:28 AM PST

Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd., which operates 34 ships under its namesake and Celebrity Cruise brands, said Monday it swung to a fourth-quarter profit on lower cruise costs and increased revenue.

 

My prediction, fwiw (not much :rolleyes: ) is that Xpeditions is going to become the entire face of Celebrity as it was once known. As far as RCI is concerned anyone wishing to cruise the X / Xpeditions "brand" who do not want to pay the Journey and Quest fares, as now being charged, may very well be forced into switching over to their Royal Caribbean ships. Heck, then X could do away with the kid's clubs as well and force ALL families to cruise on RC. THEN RCI could make Xpeditions an "adult only" line. I am not saying THAT will happen, but I have a hunch I know a few people who would be extremely delighted at that prospect. :)

[curiouscat]

It is interesting how so many people equate a cruiseline's lowering of standards to its efforts to cater to more families with young children. Please allow me to respectfully disagree -- families who love to travel does not necessarily mean they will be loud-mouthed, obnoxious and "class-less" passengers at whom older people can shake their heads.

 

We've always believed in taking our children with us when we traveled. My parents did this when I was a child, and our travels opened my eyes to a world beyond our comfortable little subdivision. I learned how to handle myself in different situations, how to speak correctly with adults, and how to properly behave in public. We are now doing this with our two young daughters. I'd like to say that they behave beautifully 100 percent of the time, but being children, of course they do not. However, I as their parent, make sure that I nip whatever unacceptable behavior in the bud, and I do not permit them to annoy or bother others around them.

 

Also, just because we travel with kids does not mean we are automatically Holiday Inn-type folks. When traveling abroad (and we've taken the kids to Europe several times), we tend to stay at hotels such as the Four Seasons and Loews. These are two good, upscale hotels that cater to families with children. So yes, it is possible to cater to families with young kids, and still maintain that sense of decorum and civility. It is simply up to the ship's staff to enforce it, and they should enforce it among all passengers, regardless of age.

 

However, C2C, I do agree with you -- most cruiselines that cater to families do not maintain or encourage any proper decorum on its ships. Ironically, this is one of the reasons we chose Celebrity for our next cruise -- because the line does not market as much to families as does RCCL or Carnival (shudder). However, I assure you and others traveling sans children that my daughters are well-behaved and I do my best, as their parent, to keep them in line. Case in point -- We were leaving a friend's house last night and the hostess politely said to my daughters, "Thank you for coming, girls." And my 4-year-old, without prompting, automatically replied, "Thank you for having us, Ms. Sue." I was proud, and everyone was impressed. And that is a sad state of affairs, no, when adults express surprise at a child with manners, for isn't that how things should be?

 

Linda

 

Totally agree. Was brought up the same way. However, today you are the exception rather than the rule... by far. Most people have had and continue to have bad exp with family orientated venues.

 

Just like changes in X it's a sad change in our Society as a whole:mad:

 

CuriousCat

 

PS I would book where I want to go but Crystal may be too boring for them. I would pick Oceania before Crystal w/kids like yours.

[Arubalisa]

It is interesting how so many people equate a cruiseline's lowering of standards to its efforts to cater to more families with young children. Please allow me to respectfully disagree -- families who love to travel does not necessarily mean they will be loud-mouthed, obnoxious and "class-less" passengers at whom older people can shake their heads.

 

We've always believed in taking our children with us when we traveled. My parents did this when I was a child, and our travels opened my eyes to a world beyond our comfortable little subdivision. I learned how to handle myself in different situations, how to speak correctly with adults, and how to properly behave in public. We are now doing this with our two young daughters. I'd like to say that they behave beautifully 100 percent of the time, but being children, of course they do not. However, I as their parent, make sure that I nip whatever unacceptable behavior in the bud, and I do not permit them to annoy or bother others around them.

 

Also, just because we travel with kids does not mean we are automatically Holiday Inn-type folks. When traveling abroad (and we've taken the kids to Europe several times), we tend to stay at hotels such as the Four Seasons and Loews. These are two good, upscale hotels that cater to families with children. So yes, it is possible to cater to families with young kids, and still maintain that sense of decorum and civility. It is simply up to the ship's staff to enforce it, and they should enforce it among all passengers, regardless of age.

 

However, C2C, I do agree with you -- most cruiselines that cater to families do not maintain or encourage any proper decorum on its ships. Ironically, this is one of the reasons we chose Celebrity for our next cruise -- because the line does not market as much to families as does RCCL or Carnival (shudder). However, I assure you and others traveling sans children that my daughters are well-behaved and I do my best, as their parent, to keep them in line. Case in point -- We were leaving a friend's house last night and the hostess politely said to my daughters, "Thank you for coming, girls." And my 4-year-old, without prompting, automatically replied, "Thank you for having us, Ms. Sue." I was proud, and everyone was impressed. And that is a sad state of affairs, no, when adults express surprise at a child with manners, for isn't that how things should be?

 

Linda

Linda, I am sure you have, but just in case you did not see it, check out the thread

Did I choose the wrong cruise line?

[C 2 C]

C 2 C, since you are a long time cruiser with Celebrity, and always give an unbiased opinion as to why this downward trend in the overall cruise experience has happened on Celebrity. Is this just an indifference to loyal cruisers on the part of Celebrity, incompetence of management, or do you think there is some kind of a master plan evolving here?

 

Celebrity's greatest strength lies in its training of on board personnel. I have seen or heard very few examples of poor waiters or room stewards. I believe that crew fear of poor ratings on comment cards weeds out bad apples in a hurry. The Customer service department has given rise to numerous comments (and few favorable ones) on these boards. I have seldom heard much good said from anyone who has had contact with Celebrity once you have left the ship. Most people who have contacted Celebrity by email will have received nothing more than an auto response that the question has been received with no follow up reply. I'm still waiting for a response to an email sent in December.

My conclusion is that it is not incompetence but a deliberate indifference.

If there is a master plan I can't fathom it. A cruise line cannot be all things to all people. Do you want large ships for the masses or intimate ships for the elite? I'm not against any specific demographic on various sailings. I'm for a cruise line with good food, great service, entertainment for its target audience, and clear guidelines of acceptable behavior.

 

I just believe that most cruisers want to cruise with like-minded travelers; people who have an ideal of a certain type of cruising experience and want to find kindred spirits at their table.

[richsea]

As far as RCI is concerned anyone wishing to cruise the X / Xpeditions "brand" who do not want to pay the Journey and Quest fares, as now being charged, may very well be forced into switching over to their Royal Caribbean ships. Heck, then X could do away with the kid's clubs as well and force ALL families to cruise on RC. THEN RCI could make Xpeditions an "adult only" line. I am not saying THAT will happen, but I have a hunch I know a few people who would be extremely delighted at that prospect.

 

arubalisa, you may be right, but I, for one, would not pay per diems like those being charged for Journey to Bermuda, & if I take my cruising $$$$ away from Celebrity, it most definitely would not go to Royal Caribbean. And I don't think that I am alone.

[npb]

Linda,

 

Well said. We started cruising with our son when he was 9. He loved getting dressed for dinner and behaved accordingly. He is now 33 and still remembers the good time we had on cruises.

Karen