The Morphing of X

[c-legs]

I'm hoping that someone at HQ actually believes that these changes will lead to a better image and better product.

I should have included an :rolleyes:... yeh, right.

My opinion of X is not the greatest right now...:(

 

Good evening, Arno

I suspect your recent B2B2B has been less than fully satisfactory....

But your remarks are right in line with a new reality at X, one that's been creeping up on all cruisers with a reasonnable sense of observation. RCL is slowly but surely pulling X 's

level '' down'' a few notches. '' Premium'' is no longer, I suggest, part of the overall objectives in classifying X.

They are also realizing, as we should , that the market place is widening; appealing to a younger demographic to blend into the current mix is a must if you are to maintain a sustainable level of profit and growth., thus the ''different'' standards.

As regards hotel and aesthetic maintenance, we've all seen it deteriorate over the years....You and I even had a conversation about that very subject in SanDiego (Irish Pub...). Granted, management saw it fit to publish a good piece of upfront info about their REAL maintenance work recently, re;;Mercury...but it is a fact X recycles its fleet into a regularly scheduled preventive hotel maintenance/upgrade program much less frequently than its competition. Hopefully, HQ is reading the cue cards on this.

The general lowering of standards you're pointing at is, I fear, an irreversible trend.

The issue becomes one of individual tolerance for '' new'' standards....overall, is X still offering good ''bang for the buck''??? Does it still measure favourably against the other '' mass marketing'' lines, including its parent, RCCL ?? Leaving aside their other notorious downside ( shoreside pre-post customer service), is the onboard experience , overall, still a desirable option ??

For the sake of RCL's bottom line, let's hope so.

Another side of that equation is a '' subsidiarising '' of the old X ''premium'' vessels....Quest & Journey are supposed to be quite upscale, and part of Xpedition, which presumably will be allowed to retain all of the ''old'' standards....perhaps, the three Soltice class vessels will be part of the '' new '' X whose future standards appear to be emerging....

Just my opinion...

Say Hi to Joanne.

How was the B2B2B otherwise ??

Cheers

;)

 

[C 2 C]

How was the B2B2B otherwise ??

 

Overall the experience was the greatest cruise value we have ever had..

We tried three different accomodations: concierge, outside, inside, priced from $100 to $60 per day.

Very few staff members remained from our month-long stay in October. There were only a few people that we remembered. However it did not quite feel like "home". We had different waiters each time, their assistants did not have time to learn guests preferences. I guess it was much more like a short stay in a hotel.

My expectations were quite low. Most of the passengers were much better behaved than I expected (ie almost normal but a younger mix). The pool area provided more "eye candy" than is the norm on X cruises.;)

 

I guess the new symbol for X's attitude towards "issues" is the "Gallic shrug"

Hairy guys in the buffet line not challenged for not having on a shirt, shorts in dining room in the evening, jeans on formal night (depending on the sailing), chair hogs...

If you have a balcony, and if the weather is great (not in direct sun), it is much easier to ignore the lack of the "X treatment" by isolating yourself. If you must depend on the common areas... it is a different experience from longer sailings.

It was a great value and I would do it again.. but I am much more likely to book another cruiseline in the future. My loyalty to X has been severely tested.... I should say X's loyalty to me as a frequent cruiser seems hollow and strained..

 

There is a term for what is changed:

benign neglect

n. A policy or attitude of ignoring a situation instead of assuming responsibility for managing or improving it.

[rubrrick]

Death by a thousand cuts.

 

On our Mercury canal cruise in December one cruiser told me he was really upset with the bridge lecture on board. It did not include a tour of the bridge.:cool:

 

Arno.........you crack me up!! There was no bridge tour on our canal cruise.........we hardly saw any of the ships officers after day 2, when it was announced that we had several cases of norovirus........and the bleaching party began!!

 

Actually.......the only thing that really disturbed me was the overall condition of the ship. The Mercury is in need of much rust removal and a paint job.........hopefully all of this will happen when it's in drydock soon.

 

Rick

[ecslady]

When I was married, my husband didn't know how to ballroom dance and didn't care to learn, so no matter if I cruised with him or not I had no one to dance with. I have been ballroom dancing for over 10 years now (socially and competitively), and if it weren't for the dance hosts I'd have no one to dance with at all on a cruise since it seems the vast majority of the gentlemen who do know how to dance are there with their wives and so wouldn't be dancing with me anyway. So, even though I'm a real young-un, I'm sorry to hear that the dance host program has gone away.

 

I'm so happy to see your reply. I, too, enjoy the dance hosts. As a single woman in her early 50's, it's the only time I get to dance! The dance hosts were very nice and it made my last cruise on the Zenith much more enjoyable. I'm really sorry to see it go. :(:(:(:(:(

[caviargal]

Hairy guys in the buffet line not challenged for not having on a shirt, shorts in dining room in the evening, jeans on formal night (depending on the sailing), chair hogs...

If you have a balcony, and if the weather is great (not in direct sun), it is much easier to ignore the lack of the "X treatment" by isolating yourself. If you must depend on the common areas... it is a different experience from longer sailings.

It was a great value and I would do it again.. but I am much more likely to book another cruiseline in the future. My loyalty to X has been severely tested.... I should say X's loyalty to me as a frequent cruiser seems hollow and strained..

 

C 2 C, I agree with all you wrote. I was really dismayed at what passed for "acceptable" attire in the dining room and around the ship on Century:(. And the onboard sevice was not up to snuff on our sailing; the staff levels were too low in some areas.

 

RCI has begun removing the nice, large libraries from their ships as they renovate them and the new ships have one that is an afterthought. They are being replaced with revenue generating ice cream parlors and coffee shops. I would place a bet that Solstice class will have much of the same "enhancements" as RCI calls them. To me, they are a huge loss.

 

I read 3-4 books over the course of a week long cruise and love having a good selection on the ship so save on packing.

 

SusieV, I agree with you that I am not interested in sailing on ships that cater to families and people with children. Give me a traditional, elegant adult atmosphere. As you pointed out, there are plenty of lines out there, including RCI, who heavily cater to familes.

[denb]

I do fear that without Roux to uphold standards X may turn to cheaper sources for its food supply.

clip from the press release, available on the X site:

“Chef Roux has offered, and we have accepted, to assist Celebrity during the transition, and will be available in the future to offer advice and guidance,” said Hanrahan.

[m steve]

And I don't mean knots. It seems that the management is working from a check list and putting the X on anything that they can drop from the ships services. The list seems to be growing and soon Celebrity will be second class behind RCL. As for someone who really used to like X I now will take 1 less cruise a year and go to a real upscale line like Silversea or Seaborne. I would rather be treated like a king than the court jester that seems to be X's new philosophy. Even their ads are downscale and don't separate them from other ships.

[ECCruise]

RCI has begun removing the nice, large libraries from their ships as they renovate them and the new ships have one that is an afterthought. They are being replaced with revenue generating ice cream parlors and coffee shops. I would place a bet that Solstice class will have much of the same "enhancements" as RCI calls them. To me, they are a huge loss.

 

Will also be very curious to see what X does with the libraries on the "Journey class". They are probably the most beautiful areas on these ships but occupy a good deal of prime real estate on deck 10 (just outside the speciality restaurants). The deck plans show the space but no description. Should be interesting.

[Jimsgirl]

On Summit to Hawaii in December, I was perturbed to realise that the Captain was practically the "invisible man"

He did not appear to "inspect the ship" (ie walk around various areas to ensure all was well) He allowed the Cruise Director to make the mid day navigation announcements - accompanied with Bingo,Trivia and games at the pool announcements which the Cruise Director obviously felt important>

Cruise Director even made the "we are turning back fora medical emergency" announcement ,the Lifeboat drill announcements. First time I have ever heard the Cruise Director doing any of this.

 

The waiter and assistant in the dining room were not only as slow as tortoises but unused to "elegant dining ", table not correctly laid, missing bread, no fresh ground pepper, some deserts missing from "show and tell" tray, other tables had complete trays. for nine nights I had a broken tea pot in spite of bringing this to the waiters attention several times.

 

Formal nights a couple of the table wore jeans, tank tops and one man had no jacket just a shirt , no tie but he did have his suspenders in full view! By the way at least 3 of the passengers had managed to get the cruise "on line at a discount agency" for only $60 per day SOLO occupancy Ocean view cabins !

 

In the end together with another passenger it was a "retreat to the by reservation Casual Dining area, service excellent and food excellent - heaven after the dining room.

 

Definitely did seem that Celebrity was "dumbing down" on the whole experience

[c-legs]

There are quite a few changes taking place on Celebrity ships.

 

The new class ships will no longer have an X on the smoke stacks... just a big X painted on the side over several decks.

 

Good morning,Arno....About those painted ''X'' on the funnels; these are actually a structural addition to the funnel, shaped in the form of a huge X, then painted to ensure they stand out. Abolishing this structure on the new Soltice class would actually save a lot of $$$, provided the ''X'' symbol would still appear on the funnel, same as Princess's ''waves'', Costa's C, NCl's ..etc.etc...If , as you fear, no X symbol is to appear on the funel, then it's a degradation of the image. OR.....perhaps the inclusion of that X originally, as the greek symbol for C, as in Chandris, the founders, was written in the purchase agreement with RCL, as a requirement for a ## of years, terminating, say, 2008....

I don't know if plastering ''X'' on the side over several decks is going to ''align'' Celebrity with NCL's ugly hull artwork...If RCL is still ''allowed'' to use the Greek ''C'' symbol, then I say, paint it on the funnel !!! With two of them on the new soltice class, it would stand out with class....( perhaps THAT is what RCL is trying to eliminate from its Celebrity operations.....)

 

I just hope someone at corporate HQ actually knows that these changes will make for a more positive corporate image.

 

As you said earlier....''' yea, rright''....!!!!

I guess we all have to redefine our expectations and level of tolerance...Easy for me...but a whole lot tougher for guests like you, Rick, and others who have piled up to 50 cruises on X....

Happy sailings anyways.

Cheers

Regards to Joanne

;)

[MP2271]

So who's doing the pictures now? We really loved the photos from our last cruise on Millie in Aug/Sept and were looking forward to maybe some more wonderful pix this time....:confused:

[Pisces11]

I have been reading all the posts about Celebrity with sadness. It just seems that Celebrity is very confused about which demographic group they want to appeal to. One of the things we loved about our last Celebrity cruise was that it was very comfortable. It looked to be mostly baby boomers who were empty nesters. The Summit in September still had a librarian and the library was a great place to sit and read. One has to wonder what corporate is thinking. They have a huge bubble of people getting ready to retire who will have the time and money to take cruises. The line that markets to this group of people will be rewarded with their business. We will be cruising on Celebrity in April. If we are not happy with what we find, we will try another line in the Fall. Someone will appreciate our business. Thank you for your assessment C2C.

[DC2OC]

I've been on 6 cruises five with X.We will be trying RCL in a few weeks.Its the saddens us to read the negative experiences of others on X.We are recent retirees,empty nesters with lots of time to travel and the X old demographics appeal to us.From what we are reading on these threads seem to point that X may be swinging away from us and becoming just another mainstream line.Maybe the new smaller ships will be like the old X.Who knows what they have in mind for the new 2700 pax ships.We liked the mostly adult crowd with a 'touch of class'.Wake up X......................Frank:confused:

[metro211]

Just off the Connie three weeks ago. There was a librarian, who had just started her contract. The problem we saw was with the passengers, who did not respect any of the traditons. This was especially true for formal nights and general ship etiquette. I'm not sure what X can do about this as they were very clear about proper attire all night. However, there were no jeans and no shorts at dinner in the dining room that we saw. Average ago of passengers was probably over 50. The staff were attentive, and really tried to make it a great experience, which is was. The CD was totally useless, and the Captain no where to be seen. We did get a bridge tour and a tour behind the scenes of the theatre. Finally, compared to our cruise on the Princess, this was heaven. If you want to see cutting corners, indifferent staff, and lousy food, go Princess. I'm back to X, at least for the time being! :)

[Sky Sweet]

Just off the Connie three weeks ago. There was a librarian, who had just started her contract. The problem we saw was with the passengers, who did not respect any of the traditons. This was especially true for formal nights and general ship etiquette. I'm not sure what X can do about this as they were very clear about proper attire all night. However, there were no jeans and no shorts at dinner in the dining room that we saw. Average ago of passengers was probably over 50. The staff were attentive, and really tried to make it a great experience, which is was. The CD was totally useless, and the Captain no where to be seen. We did get a bridge tour and a tour behind the scenes of the theatre. Finally, compared to our cruise on the Princess, this was heaven. If you want to see cutting corners, indifferent staff, and lousy food, go Princess. I'm back to X, at least for the time being! :)

 

Was Don Fluke the CD during your cruise?

[metro211]

Yes, and as I had read great things about him here, I was even more disappointed. His jokes were the same ones we heard 12 years ago on our first X cruise. He ran the CC get together and everyone there had the feeling that it was more a bother to him than anything. He did not even bother to have us introduce ourselves. Heard and saw little of him during the 11 days. Now mind you the cruise was great for us as we love to read, walk the deck, eat good food and see good entertainment, all of which we had.

[c-legs]

[quote name='C 2 C;900

 

I guess the new symbol for X's attitude towards "issues" is the "Gallic shrug"

Very good point.

 

.... but I am much more likely to book another cruiseline in the future. That will be Celebrity's loss' date=' big time....and a competitor's gain. Are you still contemplating the fall transatlantic on X and the CC cruise Feb'08 on Connie ?[/color'] My loyalty to X has been severely tested....That's clearly evident from your posts since the B2B2B...

I should say X's loyalty to me as a frequent cruiser seems hollow and strained..

I agree with you, re; your loyalty to X....from what you told me on the Mercury, you got very little of anything for the huge ## of seas days on board X over the last few years....rather surprising....

 

There is a term for what is changed:

I love it !! Good quote. Sums it up pretty well, doesn't it ??

Cheers

are you thinking HAL for the '' future '' ?

:)

[mill creek cruisers]

We have sailed X five times over the last 13 years and twice on RCL, including three times on X and once on the Brilliance of the Sea last year. We sailed with Arno on the Century TA Westbound. We enjoyed the Brilliance so much we had to keep quiet to not offend the Century cruisers. While the food seemed better on X, many other factors seemed to tilt our preferences toward RCL. One is the wide discrepancy between the loyalty programs. X really has little for loyal customers. We also enjoyed Chops much more than Muranos on Century. We also can't believe they took out the T-pool on Century.

 

We have spent time talking about the culture of X and it seems they are going two ways, with the small ships and the Solstice class ones. It would not surprise me if the Solstice ships are re flagged as RCL ships and the focus of X goes with the smaller more upscale one.

 

Going forward we will look at the Radiance Class on RCL and the Milly Class on X.

[jen826]

Do you know when these changes are being made?

 

On our September 30th Summit cruise we did see some of the new plates. But some of the old ones were still around too.

They still had the librarian, you could not get a book, unless she was there. The hours were limited and the books were locked up.

[C 2 C]

are you thinking HAL for the '' future '' ?

:)

 

No I'm more likely to try RCCL to get the perks Celebrity denies it's most frequent cruisers. I know the food and service is not at the same level but at least RCCL will upgrade its frequent guests. I'm committed to a few more X cruises but new bookings will find me elsewhere.

 

The onboard credit and the stock credit combined are not available on other cruiselines. If X wants to adopt the features of other lines then it had better offer the benefits of other lines as well.

For years X cruisers have been told by CC hostesses that a new level beyond Elite with perks was coming.

What should a frequent cruiser expect?

The staff on board is usually great. The silence from head office is deafening when you hit a milestone.

[rubrrick]

Arno.......I'm sure that there are some that have travelled on X more than you................but I have never met them. However.......I do know you, and your loyalty towards X. Joanne and you have been a guiding light for Bobbie and me.......and we have enjoyed benefitting from your knowledge of the ships and service.

 

You are finely tuned to the crew and staff........and that was evident on our Panama transit cruise. I await your thoughts on how X is truly morphing........and whether you will continue to cruise on Celebrity.

 

BTW thanks for the pictures.....and I have some coming back to you.

 

Rick

[c-legs]

No I'm more likely to try RCCL to get the perks Celebrity denies it's most frequent cruisers. I know the food and service is not at the same level but at least RCCL will upgrade its frequent guests. I'm committed to a few more X cruises but new bookings will find me elsewhere.

 

The onboard credit and the stock credit combined are not available on other cruiselines. Are we sure about this ?? I tought CCL offers stockholders the same type of benefits RCL does, for all the lines in their stable...Maybe I'm wrong. And the shipboard credit for onboard bookings are, I beleive, the oldest benefit available on pretty well all major lines....If X wants to adopt the features of other lines then it had better offer the benefits of other lines as well.

For years X cruisers have been told by CC hostesses that a new level beyond Elite with perks was coming. So is Christmas.....but what year ???:rolleyes:

What should a frequent cruiser expect? Certainly a lot more than what you've enjoyed so far....You just hit 50 cruises, right ?? Common sense would point to an automatic top upgrade on your next cruise, and I mean TOP : like an RS , from whatever stateroom you've paid into, together with a plaque from HQ honouring the milestone and the stunning loyalty, a couple of champers in your suite , an official dinner with the captain and a specialty restaurant complimentary reservation. My opinion anyways...........that's what I would do;; of course, an invitation to visit HQ and be hosted to a nice lunch with the head hunchoes would be near natural.( see ''plaque'' above...). Day dreaming ?? Of course....:rolleyes: But if you add the nett out of pocket costs X would shell out on a recognition package like this, it is minimal...compared with what it would do to their loyal guests and ALL THE FOLKS THEY TALK TO....

The staff on board is usually great. The silence from head office is deafening when you hit a milestone.You got that right.....[/quote]

CHEERS

;)

[c-legs]

Arno.

.......and..... we have enjoyed benefitting from your knowledge of the ships and service. Rick, I second that motion !!!. Folks like them...and you as well, are such a pool of information and advice.

 

You are finely tuned to the crew and staff........and that was evident on our Panama transit cruise. I await your thoughts on how X is truly morphing........and whether you will continue to cruise on Celebrity.

You and Bobbie are diehard RCCL cruisers....what do you think of Arno's views, specially since he tends to lean towards staying with the '' family'' and switch his allegience (sp?) to RCCL.?

 

BTW thanks for the pictures.....and I have some coming back to you.

 

Rick

 

Speaking of pix, Heather and I are moments away from figuring out how to properly set up an album of our pix taken during the Panama cruise on Mercury. Good ones of you two and Marge&Jay. We have your e.mail and will make sure you get the stuff.

Regards to Bobbie and her nice folks

Cheers

;)

[c-legs]

There are quite a few changes taking place on Celebrity ships.

The Dance hosts are gone.

Just curious: which lines still have an official dance hosts program ??

Cheers

:confused:

[lysolqn]

It's all about the bottom line. With new-builds hitting the market at a steady pace, competition is keen and the need to fill the ever increasing number of berths each week is greater than ever. Cruise prices are lower than they've ever been (a good thing) but the flip side is that cost cutting measures are on the increase (a not so good thing) to insure increasing profit margins in spite of lower prices. The industry, which once targeted a limited demographic, is now appealing to the masses. Do the "masses" demand dance hosts, librarians, bridge instructors, impeccable service, a dress code...? With all due respect, I think not. The result is the dumbing down of the cruise vacation traditionalists and purists have come to know and expect as cruise lines search for anyone with a heartbeat to fill their ships and keep the bottom line in the black. The genie is out of the bottle and I'm not sure there's a way to get him back in.