Not Allowed Into Canada

[Ephraim]

Not know yet. But since much of Western Europe is Schengen, it will be more of a question of which aren't.

 

Let's clarify this... not Americans... anyone with a criminal history, including Canadians. Part of the "War on Terror".

 

What countries in Europe, if any, does this apply to? Maybe another thread should be started with this general info. No point booking excursions & planning to spend money on shore if they don't want American's to visit...there are plenty of places in Mexico & the Carib that want us!!!

[CruznTom]

I think that there are many issues here that are abrasive here to US citizens and Canadians. (I won’t even get into the lawlessness of our southern border)

Statute of limitations: In the US, misdemeanors are expunged after a reasonable time.(5 to 7 years)

Is this also done in Canada? Does the US do the same for Canadian misdemeanors?

Felony vs misdemeanor: US - first or second DUI with no accident or damage is a misdemeanor. In Canada, is the first or second similar offence a felony or a misdemeanor?

Pot - many US possession convictions for less than ½ oucce are misdemeanors. Are they misdemeanors or felonies in Canada?

Neither I nor most US citizens knew that our country made our friends from the north jump through all the hoops that we are now being informed about.

[YYC F/A]

Neither I nor most US citizens knew that our country made our friends from the north jump through all the hoops that we are now being informed about.

 

That's why these boards are great! We can share information, primariliy about cruises, but also a little bit about our respective countries. :cool:

 

Sometimes a little bit of open dialogue can do wonders to dispel misperceptions, or explain some background or a different side to an issue.

 

It's good to see that many of our friends to the south understand that things go both ways - and that at the end of the day - both countries are doing all they can to keep borders secure with no real malice towards one another.

[brigittetom]

Wanted to post my brother's experience & once again ask the question if anyone is actually turned away.

My brother has a recent DUI conviction (less than 5 years) & after many phone calls was told that there was no legal way for him to be allowed to enter Canada. Since his entire trip had already been paid for he came anyway & after honestly answering the questions the border patrol person asked he was allowed to pay a fine on the spot($250 I think) & enter Canada.

 

All the rest aside, why should your brother have to pay a fine to Canada for a DUI in the US that he obviously has already made restitution for. I also had one many years ago from which I learned a very valuable lesson and I have to wonder why Canada, or the same in reverse, would feel the need to charge another fine or for that matter feel that I wasn't fit to enter their country. I'm either fit or not fit to enter another country so why the fine?? It sounds more as if I'm being charged to enter the country even though they deem me unfiit.

 

Please note I'm also referring to US policy for Canadians. I wish they could concentrate on our Southern Borders as diligently. Talk about infractions.

[usha]

Brigitte, I think you're onto something. Do you get the impression that it's really about money?

[BobBeaSea]

I think that there are many issues here that are abrasive here to US citizens and Canadians. (I won’t even get into the lawlessness of our southern border)

Statute of limitations: In the US, misdemeanors are expunged after a reasonable time.(5 to 7 years)

Is this also done in Canada? Does the US do the same for Canadian misdemeanors?

Felony vs misdemeanor: US - first or second DUI with no accident or damage is a misdemeanor. In Canada, is the first or second similar offence a felony or a misdemeanor?

Pot - many US possession convictions for less than ½ oucce are misdemeanors. Are they misdemeanors or felonies in Canada?

Neither I nor most US citizens knew that our country made our friends from the north jump through all the hoops that we are now being informed about.

 

Your misdemeanor record may be expunged for domestic purposes but not for border purposes, it is there forever. This is why domestic pardons etc. are meaningless for both countries. This is why, if you have a problem, you have to get the remedy from the other country.

 

DUI in Canada is an offence under the Criminal Code, I'm pretty sure this would be the equivalent of a felony in the U.S.

 

Our pot laws and punishments are less severe than the States but are a no go at the U.S. border. Don't even need a conviction, an arrest is enough to keep Canadians out of the U.S.

 

Both countries websites have lots of good info about this topic.

[Ephraim]

I think that there are many issues here that are abrasive here to US citizens and Canadians. (I won’t even get into the lawlessness of our southern border)

Statute of limitations: In the US, misdemeanors are expunged after a reasonable time.(5 to 7 years)

Is this also done in Canada? Does the US do the same for Canadian misdemeanors?

Felony vs misdemeanor: US - first or second DUI with no accident or damage is a misdemeanor. In Canada, is the first or second similar offence a felony or a misdemeanor?

Pot - many US possession convictions for less than ½ oucce are misdemeanors. Are they misdemeanors or felonies in Canada?

Neither I nor most US citizens knew that our country made our friends from the north jump through all the hoops that we are now being informed about.

 

I'll answer what I do know...

 

In Canada we separate usually into summary offences (misdemeanour) and indictable offences (felony).

 

Impaired Driving (DUI) is an indictable offence in Canada, always. While it is often pleaded down to a summary offence, that's considered irrelevant without actual court intervention. Therefore, it's a felony in Canada, a criminal offence.

 

Under the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act, drug possession of any sort is defined as an indictable offence in Canada. Often police will use their prerogative and issue a warning or referral for a programme for small amounts, but they can charge someone if they so wish. Generally charges are laid if they suspect that you are dealing or in possession of larger amounts. Again, it's probably the same problem, it's often pleaded down to a summary offence, but that's irrelevant without actual court intervention. Canada has proposed changing the laws to simply giving a fine for small amounts, but the US administration has threatened a backlash if Canada does. (One of the many reasons we really *LOVED* former Ambassador Paul Celluci up in Canada. Sarcasm is implied)

 

If the records were actually expunged, how would the border guard actually be able to see them?

 

In Canada, you can apply for a pardon 3 years after your sentence was completed for summary offences and 5 years after your sentence was completed after an indictable offence. If granted, your record is removed from the computer system but they clearly also indicate on their website that if asked you must answer "Yes, I have been convicted of a criminal offence for which I have received a pardon." After that, only the Solicitor General of Canada has the authority to disclose information from a pardoned record. The website also clearly states that a Canadian pardon is not recognized by many countries, including the US and suggest that people apply for the American Immigration and Naturalization Service waiver.

 

Interestingly enough, a Canadian pardon is rather inexpensive to process (but not guaranteed, of course). CAD$25 to the RCMP for a certified copy of the criminal record. CAD$50 for the application. And whatever fee for a full set of fingerprints.

 

Frankly, I think we need to put pressure on our governments to accept each other's pardons and make small amounts of drug possession a fine. It would make like so much easier.

[dmk]

What countries in Europe, if any, does this apply to? Maybe another thread should be started with this general info. No point booking excursions & planning to spend money on shore if they don't want American's to visit...there are plenty of places in Mexico & the Carib that want us!!!

 

It is not a plot to keep a Americans out of our country...just the general rif raf :D

[johninwpa]

Very educational thread. Unfortunately only small % will read. I think the cruise lines and TAs have some responsibility in letting people know .Instead too often it's no it never happens. If I'm paying for professional assistance with a TA, I would be most upset with them for not making me aware.

The real threats know how to get around border crossings and between countries.

[Sky Sweet]

Very educational thread. Unfortunately only small % will read. I think the cruise lines and TAs have some responsibility in letting people know .Instead too often it's no it never happens. If I'm paying for professional assistance with a TA, I would be most upset with them for not making me aware.

The real threats know how to get around border crossings and between countries.

 

Hi Johninwpa :)

 

You brought up an interesting point. Ideally a travel agent should alert their customers to any special situation pertaining to a cruise they have booked, but you can't depend on it. We booked a Baltic Cruise for the summer of 2006 through a travel agency over a year in advance, and didn't know that a Diphtheria Advisory has been in effect for Russia since 1994 until I read about it in Celebrity's Shore Excursion Guide, shortly before that cruise.

 

Even though the CDC does not require Americans traveling to Russia to be inoculated against Diphtheria, they strongly recommend it. Since you need to have that shot at least four weeks in advance, and our doctor thought it was important for us to get them, I am grateful that Celebrity discussed this Diphtheria Advisory in their Shore Excursion Guide which they mailed to us (via the travel agent we had used) about two months before our Baltic cruise. Fortunately, our doctor was able to obtain that vaccine and give us an emergency appointment to get this done in a timely manner.

[hcat]

Sorry, not sure of law in other states but in NYS there is no automatic expungement of misdemeanor convictions. One can apply for a Relief from Civil Disabilities to hold a professional license or special class of drivers license... I guess if anyone has something old they have to decide whether they should skip Canada or risk dredging it up again. PLenty of places to spend ones hard earned money!

And to DMK: it was not any general rif raf that took down our Towers!

[FastFreddie]

As an American who frequents Canada to tour I am in favor of Canada's policy. Here's what I've noticed. In the bars in Canada people act responsibly and take a cab home! My hat's off to you Canadians most of you set a great example. I never took a cab from the bar I just staggered down the street for a 1/4 mile or so to my hotel /B&B room. I NEVER drank and drove though!

 

 

FF

[toban]

This is a switch !! The usual complaint from the US is that Canada's borders are too open and lax. Suddenly we're too stringent. If I present myself at US Customs and Immigration and advise them that I have a criminal record; do I get in ??

[salty dingo]

If I present myself at US Customs and Immigration and advise them that I have a criminal record; do I get in ??

 

That is the $64,000 question! According the the Canada Immigration website, if 5 years has passed for a summary offense or 10 years for an indictable offense, they may qualify you for a "deemed rehabilitated" status, and you could enter. It is up to the officers on duty.

 

If you think you may be denied, you can contact a Canadian embassy and get the paperwork started for a rehabilitation status. All the details are on the website.

 

I think, in general, Canada and the US intend to allow entry to people who they honestly believe will not break any laws. If you were convicted of DUI or pot posession 20 years ago, and no trouble since, I think it is pretty certain you will get in. If you had a DUI 2 years ago, it is pretty certain you will not get in. It all depends on the individual circumstances.

[woodofpine]

Our neighbors to the north have always been touchy at the border. About 10 years back - pre 9/11 natch - I recollect a CAN immigration guy that dissed me for not having a passport, wouldn't accept a Florida driver's license accompanied by a Soc.Sec. card as evidence of U.S. citizenship, then just fumed when he couldn't explain away a voter registration card which he dissed for not being photo I.D.; all of this so I could LEAVE!

 

Now it's interesting how one instantly becomes less of a security threat when you drop $250 in the hat!

 

Of course US INS/TSA is a paragon of...

 

Through "Homeland Security", terrorists finally figured out that if they can't beat us, they'll get us to bug the cr*p out of ourselves. (Over New Years, an incoming TSA dweeb confiscated a pair of padded 2lb. exersize weights from my 14 year old daughter the returning domestic ATL - TPA portion of a US to Switzerland flt.; these "weapons"? had been expressly deemed OK (less than 5 lbs.) by prior US TSA staff coming and going as well as Swiss authorities until Atlanta... Go figure!

[dmk]

And to DMK: it was not any general rif raf that took down our Towers!

 

hcat

I hardly think your comment was necessarry nor appropriate to this discussion!

[Ephraim]

Our neighbors to the north have always been touchy at the border. About 10 years back - pre 9/11 natch - I recollect a CAN immigration guy that dissed me for not having a passport, wouldn't accept a Florida driver's license accompanied by a Soc.Sec. card as evidence of U.S. citizenship, then just fumed when he couldn't explain away a voter registration card which he dissed for not being photo I.D.; all of this so I could LEAVE!

 

Now it's interesting how one instantly becomes less of a security threat when you drop $250 in the hat!

 

Of course US INS/TSA is a paragon of...

 

Through "Homeland Security", terrorists finally figured out that if they can't beat us, they'll get us to bug the cr*p out of ourselves. (Over New Years, an incoming TSA dweeb confiscated a pair of padded 2lb. exersize weights from my 14 year old daughter the returning domestic ATL - TPA portion of a US to Switzerland flt.; these "weapons"? had been expressly deemed OK (less than 5 lbs.) by prior US TSA staff coming and going as well as Swiss authorities until Atlanta... Go figure!

 

Canada charges CAD$200 for the paperwork, the US charges USD$265 for the paperwork, just to be exact.

 

Where were you that they checked your paperwork to leave the country? I've NEVER heard of that. I have seen airlines check, because they are fined if anyone shows up without proper ID. And by proper ID at that time they mean a passport (even expired) or a birth certificate plus a photo ID. I don't know about the US, but we give Social Security cards to non-citizens, they always start with a 9, though, if they don't have citizenship.

 

I was coming into the US two years ago when an American border guard asked me why I didn't travel with my passport. I said because it wasn't required, I have two copies of my birth certificate and my driver's licence for photo ID.

 

In any case, as I posted in the Ports of Call - Canada section, this appears to be a tempest in a teapot. Most of the tourist organizations are saying that there aren't seeing any changes at all and only the SF Chronicle reported this. Even Holland-America itself has said that they haven't seen any problems at all since this system has come into play.

[woodofpine]

I was "hassled" and that's what is was... absurd... processing through the international departures section of Calgary airport leaving from the (1996?) Rotary International Convention. It left a bad taste alright; at least I wasn't trying to bring an attache of product samples into Canada! Ask any US businessman what that was like pre-9/11.

[Waterlily777]

I was "hassled" and that's what is was... absurd... processing through the international departures section of Calgary airport leaving from the (1996?) Rotary International Convention. It left a bad taste alright; at least I wasn't trying to bring an attache of product samples into Canada! Ask any US businessman what that was like pre-9/11.

 

Ask any Canadian businessperson what it is like to go into the US if you declare that you are going on business.

 

And the issue of requiring adequate documentation when leaving Canada by air, whether before or after 9/11, is/was for the protection of the country where the traveller is landing. Once they leave Canada, they're not a problem for Canadians!

[FastFreddie]

hcat

I hardly think your comment was necessarry nor appropriate to this discussion!

 

Lighten up dmk will ya! You're the one who started with the rif raf comment. I know it was supposed to be funny (at least that's the way I took it but come on huh!)

 

 

FF

[woodofpine]

Ask any Canadian businessperson what it is like to go into the US if you declare that you are going on business.

 

And the issue of requiring adequate documentation when leaving Canada by air, whether before or after 9/11, is/was for the protection of the country where the traveller is landing. Once they leave Canada, they're not a problem for Canadians!

 

OK - what's it like...

 

Waterlily, thanks for confirming to Emphraim that CAN customs do like to give a happy send off to departing visitors (why just enforce Canadian regs when we can pretend to enforce EVERYBODY'S). The next time I encounter it heading south, I'll have to thank them for protecting me from myself!

:rolleyes:

[aaerobear]

FYI folks, when leaving Canada from Vancouver/Calgary/Edmonton/Winnipeg/ Toronto/Montreal and maybe a couple others you are NOT being hassled by the Canadian officials..there is no real formalities from them, You are, in fact, clearing US customs and immigration. those are all US citizens and employees of our Homeland Security force (otherwise known as customs and immigration)

 

They are basically foreign based US citizens, so any complaints about "hasseling" etc. should be directed to the US side, not the Canadian side. This has been in place for many years and has proven to be very efficient as there can be many more flights from those cities to different cities in the US that may not have those services available to travellers (customs etc.)

[BobBeaSea]

FYI folks, when leaving Canada from Vancouver/Calgary/Edmonton/Winnipeg/ Toronto/Montreal and maybe a couple others you are NOT being hassled by the Canadian officials..there is no real formalities from them, You are, in fact, clearing US customs and immigration. those are all US citizens and employees of our Homeland Security force (otherwise known as customs and immigration)

 

They are basically foreign based US citizens, so any complaints about "hasseling" etc. should be directed to the US side, not the Canadian side. This has been in place for many years and has proven to be very efficient as there can be many more flights from those cities to different cities in the US that may not have those services available to travellers (customs etc.)

 

aaerobear is bang on the money with this post so for any American business folks or just ordinary travellers, you were hassled by your own Customs and Border Patrol folks.

[hcat]

Good news! Several cruiselines have trips leaving to Alaska from Seattle RT or ones you can fly home to from Alaska--which I would prefer anyhow-- they have short stops at Victoria at night which is a lovely town but not a big deal if missed. So for those who might have a 30 yr old situation, Alaska is still an option...On the east coast guess you will have to go to Paris instead of Quebec...

Thanks to cc once again for bringing us helpful information.

[woodofpine]

FYI folks, when leaving Canada from Vancouver/Calgary/Edmonton/Winnipeg/ Toronto/Montreal and maybe a couple others you are NOT being hassled by the Canadian officials..there is no real formalities from them, You are, in fact, clearing US customs and immigration. those are all US citizens and employees of our Homeland Security force (otherwise known as customs and immigration)

 

They are basically foreign based US citizens, so any complaints about "hasseling" etc. should be directed to the US side, not the Canadian side. This has been in place for many years and has proven to be very efficient as there can be many more flights from those cities to different cities in the US that may not have those services available to travellers (customs etc.)

 

I LOVE IT!

 

Given that this was 1996, I don't think this armed maple leaf uniformed Canadian Customs Official sitting in a Canadian airport 100+ miles from the border was "basically" a "US citizen"! :D (Given the hypersensitivity of our northern neighbors toward the "independence" thrust upon them in 1867, I'll bite my tongue.) I would've LOVED to have seen his driver's license and voter registration, eh! And when the fights are to Mexico or Japan, what's he then? C'mon folks... I can readily take the "we learned it from you, we just receiprocate" line, but take a little responsibility for your own...