Carnival to cut pay to agents making own pricing scheme

[Travelitis]

I have mixed feelings. I like protecting the mom and pop agencies, but I don't need Carnival to protect me from an agency. If an agency wants to use its override commission to reduce the cruise fare, that sounds good to me. I always have a TA, even when I just have them assume the booking. It's good

to have another person involved, just in case we should forget it's time for final payment. It's never been a bad thing that I've regretted.

 

While many or most folks on CC don't need an agent to book a cruise, there are many consumers who really benefit from a TA. We were at a table with 3 other couples who were 1st-time cruisers. Two of the couples had no idea there were formal nights. This is basic stuff a decent TA would've told them.

[CruiseFever]

Some of the above comments are pretty dang slanted.

 

For a more objective take on the 2nd phase of Carnival's pricing policy due to go into effect on January 1, see Cruise News Daily.

 

This really should not have anything but a positive effect for passengers and small travel agencies who can now compete with the big boys who've been eating their lunch for years, driving many out of the business or forcing them to work for some big outfit themselves.

 

Our enemy on prices is not this policy but the supply and demand thing. With no new builds coming into service in the new future, demand is going to catch up with capacity and prices will go up. The best thing we, the passengers who sustained the cruise lines during the post 911 slump, can do is holler loud and clear that we don't like this.

 

In return, mark my words, the cruise lines will beef up the perks for past guests and offer us discounts like we've never seen before. They need us, they want us, they appreciate our past busness. They're not going to price us out of the market. They'll try to push us a little bit with things like a charge for fancy coffee after dinner or other fees specific to users but that should just be expected like in any other business.

 

Anybody notice the charge for "shop supplies" on your car repair invoice in recent years? Same deal.

 

That's not what we need to be concerned about. Its the (I bet) 10 to 20% increase in base cruise fare that's to be feared.

 

We (members of this board) are pretty good at getting around the system, working it to our advantage and finding bargains. Those skills will need to be razor sharp in the future to keep cruising at the pace we've been the last few years.

 

But we can do this

 

I, for one, WILL find a way to do it.

 

All of the sudden those Cruise Critic group cruise rates are looking more attractive all the time. That's one way.

[halos]

I, for one, like this... Too many online sites are stripping their prices down by eliminating customer service... too many times, people see poor customer service by the TA as a reflection on Carnival. I'm sure Carnival is tired of the million phone calls they get each day about pricing and TA's... they can't and won't help you if you are with a TA, once again, a bad reflection on them, but you can't blame them... I for one would rather pay a little higher price for a good TA for any trip I take... seen too many people suffer by bargaining for the rock bottom price...

 

This will help the 'stupid' consumer, but not the savy one.

I found a great price on line with an agent that was reputable and had no problems at all because I did the homework and I don't mind doing the work. I CAN do the work myself, and I LIKE doing it, so why should I have to pay a TA to do what I can do on my own??

The more money I save, the more I can cruise. Carnival will lose money from me, not gain, if I have to pay more.

[BigDave]

This is Great news!

 

...for RCCL.

[eroller]

Some of the above comments are pretty dang slanted.

 

For a more objective take on the 2nd phase of Carnival's pricing policy due to go into effect on January 1, see Cruise News Daily.

 

 

 

Objective? Cruise News Daily? Not so sure about that.

 

Ernie

[eroller]

I for one do not like this idea. Not everyone wants or needs a high level of customer service.

 

 

Exactly. I know I don't. After 50 something cruises on all the major lines I don't need advise from a travel agent. I just need them to book the cruise, process the payments, handle any special requests, and get me my tickets. I don't need hand holding nor do I want it. Pretty basic stuff.

 

I use an agency that many know of for "experienced cruisers" who know exactly what they want, and all communication is via email. I'm very happy with them because they offer the exact level of customer service I need, but with their low overhead and volume they have amazing prices. They also have no "hidden" charges. I'm not sure how this will effect them?

 

Ernie

[eroller]

It will become even more difficult for travel agents to reduce prices via their commission, as the next step by some major cruise lines will be a commission cut. Over the years it seems many major lines have been slowly side-stepping the travel agent. Online booking engines on their websites, direct marketing, and even PVP's (Personal Vacation Planners) that act very much like a travel agent in making your cruise arrangements. You can even speak to the same person over and over again when you call. Carnival was even testing kiosks in a few major malls to help sell directly to the consumer. While the cruise lines will probably never admit it, they are trying to reduce distribution costs and travel agent commissions are an obvious target. If part of the commission is being rebated by agents anyway, why not cut it and keep the extra money? It's interesting because this is the same way airlines initially started excluding travel agents. First it was commission cuts, then commission caps, then no commission at all. Eventually airlines (and hotels) started offering the best, guaranteed fares, directly on their website to promote even more direct bookings. With Carnival trying to level out the playing field as far as pricing, I see travel agents eventually playing a lesser role. Why book through a travel agent when you can get the same or better price directly through Carnival? As it is, many travel agents charge some hidden booking fees, and even cancellation penalties above and beyond what the cruise line charges.

 

I think in the future there will always be a place for travel agents, but probably not for the average joe who books a basic 7-day cruise to the Caribbean or Alaska. Travel Agents will be used for more exotic, long, and complicated vacations that require multiple hotels, tours, air routing, car rentals, etc. Of course all this is just my opinion, but years ago I watched major airlines make many of the same moves Carnival is making today. Travel agents seemed shocked then, but I think the writing was on the wall. If I were a travel agent I would be paying close attention right now.

 

Ernie

[GoinCruisin]

Well, if said agency is indeed reputable, than this new policy won't affect them.. if they are not advertising non carnival approved pricing and promotions, then they will not be affected, so no big deal.... this policy is in place for the ones that are NOT reputable and making up their own rules... The ones dropping comms to offer a great price and then charging an $80 service fee to book and hiding port charges until they reel you in, among others. If an online agency is following Carnival guidelines, then this won't affect them...

[hdawson]

Ernie. According to Carnival's Annual Report about 90% of their bookings come from travel agents. About 95% for most other lines. I think it prudent for cruiselines that protect those agencys that have contributed so much to the growth and popularity of cruising and their particular cruiseline business. Again, there have been some (few) agencys that have defied the rules for bookings using promotional fares when the client is not elgible for, in order to unfairly cut out the agencys that play be the rules. I suspect that Holland America has already suspended taking bookings from one online agency at least temporarily.

[LadySpoilt]

Exactly. I know I don't. After 50 something cruises on all the major lines I don't need advise from a travel agent. I just need them to book the cruise, process the payments, handle any special requests, and get me my tickets. I don't need hand holding nor do I want it. Pretty basic stuff.

Ernie

I agree with Ernie and Snowball, this may help the smaller Travel Agents, but it will financially hurt the "experienced cruiser" who does all their own homework and basically needs only someone to take their reservation and payments.

I also think this may well be the first step to Carnival taking over most of its own bookings, much like the Airlines have done.

Sandra

[eroller]

Ernie. According to Carnival's Annual Report about 90% of their bookings come from travel agents. About 95% for most other lines. I think it prudent for cruiselines that protect those agencys that have contributed so much to the growth and popularity of cruising and their particular cruiseline business.

 

 

I agree, but as cruise lines look to cut costs the travel agent distribution system stands out like a sore thumb. Unfortunately large corporations like Carnival don't always do what is fair. They do what is best for the bottom line and their shareholders. Travel agents also used to book 90%+ of air tickets as well. Travel agents were huge supporters of major airlines and airlines were responsible for a majority of their incomes. I think most of us know what kind of commissions airlines pay these days. 0%. I can't even guess what percent of air bookings are made through travel agents today, but I imagine it's very small. Unfortunately travel agents got screwed, and many closed, especially those that were not able to adapt quickly.

 

I could be wrong about all this, but I watched the same scenario unfold years ago between the airlines and cruise lines. I hope it never gets to that point with cruise lines, but there is no denying that cruise lines are taking small steps to bring in more direct bookings.

 

Ernie

[GoinCruisin]

Guys, if you read the initial statement, this policy is being put in place to punish the unscrupulous agents out there, not ALL TA's and not ALL online TA's... just the ones that are advertising rates and promos that are not approved by Carnival... The ones that are using sneaky tactics to reel people in and then get slapped with a surprise, and no customer service to remedy any problems... In my business, if any of my vendors start advertising on my behalf and then start screwing my customers, you better believe I'm going to put some more firm rules in place to protect the vendors that ARE following my guidelines and ARE taking care of my customers.... when my customers are upset, it does not reflect on the vendor, it reflects on ME. If everyone on this board is using reputable TA's, then nobody should see an effect... why NOT cut comms from people that are using underhanded tactics? If they get away with it, then why not have all the TA's do it... then we ALL start having problems.

[tjevans]

Just a quick, knee-jerk reaction to having read the story . . .

 

I, for one, don't like it. I haven't used a TA since 95 mainly because of the internet. When I did book my only cruise, I researched exactly what I wanted, and I shopped just for price, the way I do with every major purchase. I wound up using an online TA, but before I did that, I even researched their reputation, and found it extremely favorable.

 

This new policy may be good for people who need their hand held through every little transaction in life, but it's not good for people who know what they want.

[steveaaaa]

So this means that CC will not be able to post any group pricing that is not in line with CCLs pricing because every post on this board for a CC cruise (that lists $25 deposit,ect) is an advertisment?

Steve

[GoinCruisin]

No, those are group cruise rates that Carnival approves... It is directed to the TA's that advertise anything that Carnival does not approve or fall within their guidelines... Groups could not get the $25 deposit without Carnivals approval, since the deposit goes to them...

[gatour]

I am not sure why everyone is getting so upset about this policy, it only applies to ADVERTISING. Once you contact a TA, they can quote you any price they want, including any commision kickbacks. So the TA's you are currently using will still be able to give you the prices that they currently give you. They just can't advertise it.

[VentureMan_2000]

Exactly. They don't want TA's advertising rates lower than those published. They can quote a rate how they want. Carnival just doesn't want people calling them saying, "I saw a lower price advertised over at 'Super TA'. I want that price too".

It just ticks off the customer and wastes Carnival's time. In short, this is a bad customer experience. And really, that is all the cruise lines are about... providing a good customer experience end to end.

Nothing worse than making a purchase for $2000 and seeing it advertised somewhere else for $1800.

[tjevans]

[quote name='gatour']I am not sure why everyone is getting so upset about this policy, it only applies to ADVERTISING. Once you contact a TA, they can quote you any price they want, including any commision kickbacks. So the TA's you are currently using will still be able to give you the prices that they currently give you. They just can't advertise it.[/QUOTE]

So say there's a certain well-known online cruise-only TA, we'll call them "cruise rapid." You have to contact them and request a quote. That company will not be affected by this new policy because they're not giving you an advertised price. Is that correct?

[CruiseFever]

[quote name='eroller']Objective? Cruise News Daily? Not so sure about that.

Ernie[/QUOTE]


I am

[emerald777]

[QUOTE]Exactly. They don't want TA's advertising rates lower than those published. They can quote a rate how they want. Carnival just doesn't want people calling them saying, "I saw a lower price advertised over at 'Super TA'. I want that price too".[/QUOTE]
This isn't going to stop the above actions. The price for any one sailing changes daily. Especially on the cruiselines own website. I've been watching the price for my next cruise and everyday I go to RCCL to check my sailing. On average, 3-4 times a week the price for my Cat cabin has changed. So people will still be calling wanting the lower price when it does drop.

And as for the claim that it will only affect advertising and not actual price, I personally will be irritated if I can no longer research the price of my cruise by just checking online rates without having to actually talk to an agent to find out what the "real" rate will be.

I doesn't sound to me like it's being used to punish those agencies which use bait and switch tactics. Are there really that many people who go ahead and book with an ageny once a person realizes they have been tricked? I hope the vast majority of people are smarter than that. If someone is smart enough to use the web to research their price, they are smart enough to realize a bad deal when the final price is announced. I just don't think CCL is so "nice" that they are doing this to "help" travel agencies maintain their bottomline. They either want a higher price across the board or they want more people to use their own booking system.

[emerald777]

Here's another quote from cruisenewsdaily -

[QUOTE][i]It's explained best by outspoken Carnival president Bob Dickinson who recently said that if travel agencies are giving away part of their commission, they are telling the cruise lines they don't need it, so the lines may as well keep it.[/i][/QUOTE]
So, we lose the competitive pricing offered by large agencies, CCL makes more money and smaller agencies will still fade away because more and more experienced cruisers will just bypass the middleman......

[VentureMan_2000]

Just like a electronic stores price Gty, if the price isn't advertised, they don't have to match it. Unadvertised prices are considerd "Hear-say".

[Snowball]

That quote sure sounds to me like Carnival is trying to punish the discount t/a's that are willing to cut their commissions to increase sales. I still don't see how any of this will benefit the customer - still sounds like price fixing to me. :rolleyes:

[eroller]

[quote name='CruisingIsLife']I am[/QUOTE]

Isn't Cruise News Daily owned and published by a travel agent? I'm not sure how "objective" that can be. Not to say there isn't good information, but the information can be spun into whatever direction is desired.

Ernie

[jcanino]

I am not sure if anyone realizes it, but if you book a cruise with an agency that deeply discounts the cruise price, for any reason, and that agency goes out of business, the booking reverts to the cruise lines. Once that happens, your price also reverts to the original price quoted to the agency PRIOR to them making a discount adjustment. The cruise line does not care of any "deal" made between the agency and the consumer.