Overnight decision to start a new cruise line - A publicity stunt?

[WvW]

In the news

05/01/2007

The first to join the fleet is Celebrity Journey (previously known as Pullmantur's Blue Dream); Celebrity Quest will begin sailing this fall. Both measure 30,277 tons and carry 710 passengers.

05/04/2007

Celebrity, which took on Journey and Quest after parent company RCCL acquired the Spain-based Pullmantur, had originally planned to fold these 30,777-ton, 710-passenger boutique ships into its Celebrity Xpeditions sub-brand -- but it changed its mind. "We learned that these ships don't just constitute a slightly more upscale product than Celebrity," Fain said. "They are so distinct they deserve a line of their own."

05/06/2007

Azamara Journey, the flagship of brand-new line Azamara Cruises, is ready. The ship set sail from Cape Liberty Cruise Port on its inaugural Bermuda voyage just after 11 a.m. EST today after a one-day delay.

“Changed its mind”??

I cannot believe that one makes an overnight decision to start a new cruise line instead of adding ships to an existing fleet. This requires huge organizational and logistic operations.

Was this simply a publicity stunt to announce only at the very last moment that these ships will form a separate line? (Though under the umbrella of…) or was this actually an impulsive decision made days before the inaugural sailing?

[nlvc12]

I think they're going to use it to deny some transferred perks from Captains Club and/or Stockholders. Don't know yet, for example, whether RCCL stockholders will get their benefit. What about Captain's Club or RCCL loyalty program credits? are they going to start a new "club"?

 

Of course, I think the above would be a mistake but...

 

Nlvc12

[ecslady]

According to the FAQ section of the Azamara website:

 

Q.

Will this brand have its own loyalty program?

A.

Celebrity’s Captain’s Club will extend to guests who become loyal guests of Azamara. Captain’s Club members on Azamara will receive benefits similar to Celebrity.

 

Q.

Will reciprocal benefits apply, between Azamara, Celebrity and Royal Caribbean?

A.

Yes. Because the Captain's Club program has been extended to cover the new brand, reciprocity benefits remain unchanged. Azamara guests who are Captain’s Club members will be credited on their Celebrity’s Captain’s Club account.

[Susan-M]

Was this simply a publicity stunt to announce only at the very last moment that these ships will form a separate line? (Though under the umbrella of…) or was this actually an impulsive decision made days before the inaugural sailing?

 

My feeling is that it was neither of these situations - it's probably been in the works but just not ready for an announcement until last week, and not an impulsive decision made in the past few days because a TA on CC mentioned that they have promotional material in their office.

[Mr. Tucker]

and not an impulsive decision made in the past few days because a TA on CC mentioned that they have promotional material in their office.

 

And that promotional material was titled "Celebrity Journey".

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again - this campaign has been a nightmare of mis-information right from the get go. Very little information was made available and most who had bookings on Zenith were really kept in the dark until very recently.

 

Calls to Customer Service on the same questions had different responses depending upon the day and person you spoke with.

[xplrcrzn]

The origins of RCL's decision to create a new line are not really germane to the quality of the final product. And there really is no basis for the negativity of some posters toward the new line at this early stage other than personal bias--e.g., angry smokers, fans of Oceania who fear competition, etc. The company deserves praise for taking risks that will benefit many Celebrity fans (and others) who are looking for a more intimate, upscale experience without leaving the Celebrity fold, who want interesting and unusual itineraries, etc. Ultimately, this move may also benefit Oceania fans ("Mr. Tucker," etc.) by providing the type of competition to Oceania which encourage it to improve its product further and (perhaps) lower prices. Let's give Azamara a chance to prove itself.

[Susan-M]

I've said it before and I'll say it again .

 

OK .... but I agree with xplrcrzn's comments .... I would rather be positive, give them a chance and know that the final product is what counts. And I like what they are offering :)

[Andy]

Calls to Customer Service on the same questions had different responses depending upon the day and person you spoke with.

 

Hi Mr. Tucker !

 

I am sure you know this, but your above statement has always been a chronic problem with Celebrity's customer service, and not only related to Azamara. You can ask 10 different people the same question, and get 10 different answers. That is something that must be improved at Celebrity, and should never happen at a more premium line such as Azamara. I hope they will improve on this in the very near future.

[Nutrioso]

I haven't heard many comments on the positives of competition in any marketplace. AZ will strive to the utmost to provide a better product than O. It will force O to "stand tall", reevaluate its existing product in an effort to maintain a really super product. No backsliding allowed here. The end result, hopefully, will be two improved products at a lower price.

[Mr. Tucker]

OK .... but I agree with xplrcrzn's comments .... I would rather be positive, give them a chance and know that the final product is what counts. And I like what they are offering :)

 

Fair enough to give them a chance.

 

I do hope they keep Oceania on its toes and I do hope that they turn out to be of similar quality to Oceania as that gives me two additional ships to consider.

 

I just think they went about their business in a manner that would not evoke alot of confidence in those who were switched from Zenith to Journey. I saw no reason for the information black-out and their whole start-up procedure just left a bad taste.

 

It would be nice if they succeeded and based upon the recent downward spiral of Celebrity I think they were smart to separate themselves and aim at a different demographic to help bolster their future success.

[SheilaNC]

Completely agree with Susan. Come on, folks, let's wait for reviews and more facts before bashing anything and every change that Celebrity makes. This is an exciting, competitive industry and surviving and thriving in the current environment requires change and attention to the customer base. The number of suggestions/concerns/complaints over the past few years deserved attention. Now that changes have been made, I'm happy to reserve comments (positive and negative) until I have the opportunity to experience the changes in person AND lucky me, I get to do so in just a few weeks.

 

I promise to keep careful notes and post a complete report when we return AND will send comments from Bermuda when I find Internet cafes. For now, I'm excited to be part of this new experiment and thrilled to be back on a cruise ship with new places to explore and enjoy!!

[Andy]

Hi Everyone !

 

I totally agree with Susan & Sheila. I am more than willing to give Celebrity/Azamara a chance before I pass any judgement on this venture. Personally, I am very excited about it. The only problem is, I have over 6 months before my Quest sailing :). I wish I could be on a Cruise sooner !

 

The other issue for us, is that even if we DO love Quest, we probably wont be sailing on Azamara for a long time after this sailing, as it appears the Caribbean is not in their plans for late 2008 and beyond. Not that I disagree with their plans, as these ships are best suited for very exotic itineraries. Hopefully, they will have more ships within a few years... I am betting they will expand the fleet sooner rather than later, and there will be at least one Caribbean option in the future.

[SheilaNC]

Hey, Andy,

Are you saying the Quest from Rome to Venice in fall 08 is no longer on the books? We were hoping to book while on Journey :(

[Andy]

Hey, Andy,

Are you saying the Quest from Rome to Venice in fall 08 is no longer on the books? We were hoping to book while on Journey :(

 

Hi Sheila !

 

While I dont know exactly which sailing you are referring to, Quest has plenty of Rome sailings in Fall '08, so it is probably still there.

[bepsf]

Fair enough to give them a chance.

 

 

Either Az will succeed and the boys from the RCCL Executive Suite will be patting themselves on their collective backs at the next few Shareholder's meetings...

...or we've all just witnessed the introduction of the cruise industry's Edsel.

[LHT28]

I haven't heard many comments on the positives of competition in any marketplace. AZ will strive to the utmost to provide a better product than O. It will force O to "stand tall", reevaluate its existing product in an effort to maintain a really super product. No backsliding allowed here. The end result, hopefully, will be two improved products at a lower price.

I don't think you will see any price reduction unless RCCL subsidizes AZA to be more competitive.

Small ship + less passengers = higher pricing.

 

I am an O fan and think they have a good product and waiting to see how AZA does before commenting.

It is early days and they have ticked off a lot of Celebrity fans.

[woodofpine]

These posts reflect the issues present when a mega-line (RCL/X here) decides to create a "brand" (personally, I've always hated that term as used by cruise industry suits) out of thin air - independent operating heritage being absent. When Carnival Corp. started applying the term "brand"; it was used to describe acquired lines (HAL, Costa, Cunard, Princess) that all had a lengthy prior independent existence and heritage.

 

Here, the term has the aroma of pure gloss and marketing. That may be unfair too since the ships are somewhat different as is the cruise style and itineraries. But the fast - waive of the wand, X bookings presto Azamara - undermines stronger separate identity that might have been achieved with a bit more lengthy operational workup independent of X staff. But that's part of the superficiallity of it, there apparently is no indepedent Azamara staff.

 

At least when GM sought this type of start up with Saturn they actually built a new independent plant for production.

 

Citicism aside, the overall cruise product looks to be attractive (look out Oceana).

[Sky Sweet]

I don't know if was a publicity stunt, but even if it was I don't think it was a bad idea. Since Azamara's product appears to be very different from a typical Celebrity Cruise, I think it was wise for RCI to create a separate division for it.

 

During the early nineties, Mazda had planned to enter the luxury car market with a new division, but instead made a luxury car without a separate brand identity for it that was marketed and sold in their regular Mazda showrooms. This luxury car was very pretty and received excellent reviews for its then revolutionary engine that packed a lot of horsepower into a small engine. Unfortunately, this luxury car didn't last very long and I attribute its demise to Mazda not creating a separate division for it like Toyota did for Lexus.

[isujim]

Having been in marketing for over 30 years I can assure this was NO overnight decision. Focus groups, research and the like all went into this decision, which IMO was decided a long time ago........

 

they whetted everyone's appetite and then made the announcment. Now that is not to say the deicison is right or will work out..........anyone remember the "New Coke" from about 10 years ago?:)

 

As a long time RC cruiser........I think we are going to book a cruise on the Journey or Quest..........we have been following the development of the plans for these ships for a couple of months.

 

RC as a parent company will have 3 distinct "brands" (if by reputation only).........it will be interesting to see how it all shakes out in the end.......which by the way.......isn't over yet by any stretch of the imagination.

[woodofpine]

OK - so by taking the existing bookings and not having a separate phone line to say "Azamara Cruise Line" (or do they?) this project is a tad more transparent than comparable situations (car brands etc.); Big Deal! In time, it will have a separate image and identity. It is after all a different "product".

 

Maybe they picked the name "Azamara" because the vowels roll off the tongue just like "Oceana"... marketing research... If you can't dazzle them with footwork, baffle them with bullsh*t!

 

As I recollect, there was a major rumor a year or so ago that RCI quietly approached Del Rio & Co. at Oceana about a buyout. RCI was rebuffed. (Given what happened with Princess, this apparently isn't RCI's strong suit.)

 

RCI/X has loyalists and economies of scale; it wants this market so, "If you can't join'em, beat'em!".

[GIFTofGAB]

The origins of RCL's decision to create a new line are not really germane to the quality of the final product. And there really is no basis for the negativity of some posters toward the new line at this early stage other than personal bias--e.g., angry smokers, fans of Oceania who fear competition, etc. The company deserves praise for taking risks that will benefit many Celebrity fans (and others) who are looking for a more intimate, upscale experience without leaving the Celebrity fold, who want interesting and unusual itineraries, etc. Ultimately, this move may also benefit Oceania fans ("Mr. Tucker," etc.) by providing the type of competition to Oceania which encourage it to improve its product further and (perhaps) lower prices. Let's give Azamara a chance to prove itself.

 

I agree.

Let's stay postive here, folks! Bottom line? I am a die hard Celebrity fan, but was beginning to tire of the same ole ships and especially the ports; this peaks my interest and tickles at my pocketbook, and that's got to be a good business move on their part. Surely, naming a whole new line seems a little silly, but if it gives them a better shot at attracting new passengers and goosing the competition, I say, more power to 'em.

 

"A Cruise Ship by any other name would ... uh, make a cruise just as sweet?!?!?!?"

[richsea]

I don't know if it was a knee jerk reaction or an overnight decision, but I just received the latest Captain's Club Celebrity News today which looks like it was printed 03/02/07 & pages 4 and 5 have a big spread on Celebrity:confused: Journey & Quest extolling exotic ports & new locations. It sure looks like a knee jerk reaction on the face of it.

 

I think I understand the why of it....they want to justify the higher rates & compete with Oceania. I just feel that this whole episode is contrived & makes Celebrity look a little rediculous.

[Andy]

I don't know if it was a knee jerk reaction or an overnight decision, but I just received the latest Captain's Club Celebrity News today which looks like it was printed 03/02/07 & pages 4 and 5 have a big spread on Celebrity:confused: Journey & Quest extolling exotic ports & new locations. It sure looks like a knee jerk reaction on the face of it.

 

I think I understand the why of it....they want to justify the higher rates & compete with Oceania. I just feel that this whole episode is contrived & makes Celebrity look a little rediculous.

 

Hi Rich !

 

One minor comment.... I heard the Captains Club newsletters have a HUGE delay between the time it is put together, to mailing, to recieving it at home. I have often noticed that the information is dated by the time it gets to us. That could easily be why there is no mention of Azamara in there. I believe Royal Carribbean no longer mails the Crown and Anchor magazine for this reason. My guess is Celebrity will follow suit in the near future, as they are now putting the Captains Club magazine online.

 

One of the reasons I previously enjoyed the magazine, was for the Captains Club coupons. Now that most of the coupons are not of much value, and very restrictive, and the content being dated, the magazine is not that much of big of a deal for me any longer.

 

On the bright side, at least there is something about Journey and Quest in the magazine !

[joeinsb]

We love Oceania and can't wait to sail on them again (in March 2008, to be exact). We also love the R ships, which are part of the whole scheme, so having two more Rs at sea, is a plus. Therefore, we plan to sail on Azamara, which as a Celebrity brand, should be pretty darn nice.

 

But here's what's troubling: in the long run, how will RCI treat Azamara when it comes time to pay the bills? Will they cut corners, as some long-time RCI cruisers have accused them of doing to Celebrity? Or will they allow Azamara to maintain its independence without the corporate meddling that's so evident at Carnival and (I suppose) RCI?

 

If I were a betting man (I leave that to my wife, the blackjack player), I'd put my money on Oceania--provided they aren't put out of business by RCI and its deep pockets.

[Andy]

We love Oceania and can't wait to sail on them again (in March 2008, to be exact). We also love the R ships, which are part of the whole scheme, so having two more Rs at sea, is a plus. Therefore, we plan to sail on Azamara, which as a Celebrity brand, should be pretty darn nice.

 

But here's what's troubling: in the long run, how will RCI treat Azamara when it comes time to pay the bills? Will they cut corners, as some long-time RCI cruisers have accused them of doing to Celebrity? Or will they allow Azamara to maintain its independence without the corporate meddling that's so evident at Carnival and (I suppose) RCI?

 

If I were a betting man (I leave that to my wife, the blackjack player), I'd put my money on Oceania--provided they aren't put out of business by RCI and its deep pockets.

 

Hi Joe !

 

I wanted to say, your post was excellent.... all great comments and observations. I also wonder about the same issues. As most of us are long time Celebrity customers, we are well aware that Celebrity has done a poor job of making their most loyal customers feel appreciated, especially of late. I wont belabor my reasons for feeling this way, as they have been discussed countless times on the Celebrity board. As the Management of Azamara will be the same people as X, one has NO choice but to wonder if they will bring the same strategy (I sure hope not) to Azamara. On the bright side, being that Azamara has to "prove" themselves... I feel they will do whatever it takes to make this brand a winner. Only time will tell if I will be right or not, but if I were a betting man, I would be betting with Azamara management, and not against them.

 

With the birth of Azamara, I feel that Oceania will have to do a lot of looking over their shoulders so to speak, as they will be very interested, perhaps even worried about what Azamara will become over the next few years. I wonder if Azamara would be here today, had Oceania agreed to sell to Royal Caribbean not too long ago. Either way, Oceania is the competition now, and Royal Caribbean has a ton of money behind them. I highly doubt they will fail.

 

With that said, I feel the market can easily support both lines, although I do wonder if Azamara and Oceania will combine at some point. No matter what ultimately happens, I wish them both Oceania and Azamara nothing but the very best in the future !