Barbarians Breach Walls...Jeans are OK

[Surfgirl]

Really? NCL has allowed jeans in all the restaurants on ships sailing from Houston (Texas) for years. I never experienced a loss of ambiance on these cruises. It shouldn't be any different anywhere else.

 

If you want formallity, I suggest sailing on ships sailing for cruise lines that have two, three, four, five, six, or seven days a week where you must be formally dressed to dine in the main restaurants.

 

By your reasoning, then... if you want informality.. then I suggest you stay home and eat at Chuckie Cheese. :D

[jentroubles]

Ambiance--- big old snort there. Lets see--next we will get rid of crying children, request that everyone wear white gloves and don't forget....NO LAUGHING!

[taxmantoo]

Who made you the etiquette king/queen?

 

If you're going to inforce proper hat etiquette, maybe you should learn the rules first.

 

Hats are allowed indoor in various locations, including lobbies, eleveators, and hallways.

 

Very interesting and time consuming research Ron, but still WRONG.

You should have researched just a bit more to discover that a baseball cap IS NOT a hat in the pure sense that all your quotes refer to. Just go to Wikipedia and you will see the difference.

Most of your quotes originate from the UK where you hardly see any baseball caps (even in the Tube) except on Amercian heads.

[shoreguy]

Ambiance--- big old snort there. Lets see--next we will get rid of crying children, request that everyone wear white gloves and don't forget....NO LAUGHING!

 

In fact crying children should be removed from the dining room until they calm down :eek:

[Sea Hound]

Based on the increase of ad hominem arguments in this thread, I think it has run its course.

 

Maybe everyone should agree to disagree?;)

 

Sea Hound:D

[lovesublime]

I have to agree with Surfgirl. We just returned from the May 20 Pearl to Alaska. For dinner at Cagney's my husband and son wore dress pants with long sleeve buttoned up shirts-I wore a skirt and heels. We sat in view of a table full of elderly people and ALL of them were in warm up suits. The kind with strips down the sides of the legs. I was a little offended, because Cagney's is a nice restaurant and does deem a dress code of sorts. It does kind of spoil the ambience. Besides, the side at the entrance clearly states no track suits.

 

Hey, I know it's Alaska and I know it's cold, but come on...

[Droopy_Sails]

In fact crying children should be removed from the dining room until they calm down :eek:

 

Hell, maybe hysterical Texans in baseball caps should be removed from the dining room until they calm down. :D

[novusordomundi]

We should all be so lucky to have something as trivial as the wardrobe of the complete strangers who happen to be co-dining in our general vicinity represent the major hardship in our lives....

 

If having to dine six feet from someone in a track suit or <gasp> jeans is the worst thing that happens to you, you've had a pretty darned good day.

[Tobintemp]

I. For dinner at Cagney's my husband and son wore dress pants with long sleeve buttoned up shirts-I wore a skirt and heels. We sat in view of a table full of elderly people and ALL of them were in warm up suits. The kind with strips down the sides of the legs. I was a little offended, because Cagney's is a nice restaurant and does deem a dress code of sorts. It does kind of spoil the ambience. Besides, the side at the entrance clearly states no track suits. .

 

Maybe the airline or the ship lost their luggage. Would hate to be limited to the buffet or room service if my luggage went astray!

[electricron]

By your reasoning, then... if you want informality.. then I suggest you stay home and eat at Chuckie Cheese. :D

 

But I don't have to, becuase NCL has "Freestyle Cruising and Dining", where "Resort Casual" dress is always appropriate.

 

Of course, I could sail on Cunard's Queen Mary 2 where "Formal" dress is always appropriate. Take your pick, I chose mine, and it's NCL.

[electricron]

Very interesting and time consuming research Ron, but still WRONG.

You should have researched just a bit more to discover that a baseball cap IS NOT a hat in the pure sense that all your quotes refer to. Just go to Wikipedia and you will see the difference.

Most of your quotes originate from the UK where you hardly see any baseball caps (even in the Tube) except on Amercian heads.

 

I did. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baseball_cap

It is most associated with those who play baseball. However, the baseball cap is far more than just a part of baseball players' uniforms; it is arguably the most popular style of hat in the United States and many Western nations, as well as in Japan.

 

Another version of the baseball cap, worn often—but not exclusively—by farmers and migrant agricultural workers, is the plastic mesh cap with foam fronts and a farm feed supply company logo or the like printed on the cap. This style of baseball cap is sometimes called a "trucker cap" because of its blue collar associations. It is also known as a "gimme cap" due to its being given away for free as a method of advertising.

 

Beginning in the 1980s, the baseball cap also came to be associated with film directors, especially Spike Lee, Steven Spielberg, and Michael Moore, replacing the beret in the popular image.

 

The military also uses baseball caps as part of the uniform, especially the United States Navy. Used mostly with the utility uniform and coveralls, the baseball cap usually has a command logo on the front to denote command affiliation. Also baseball caps of a particular color are worn to denote a specific function of a person or particular job. Two examples are in the United States submarine force, red baseball hats are worn by drill monitors who facilitate and critique members of the boat's crew during drills. Also in the United States Army, parachute riggers wear red baseball caps as part of their uniform. In Slovenia, policemen on motorcycles wear baseball caps as a part of their uniform, when they remove the helmet.

 

A cap is a hat.

hat

Pronunciation: 'hat

Function: noun

Etymology: Middle English, from Old English hæt; akin to Old High German huot head covering -- more at HOOD

1 : a covering for the head usually having a shaped crown and brim

2 a : a distinctive head covering worn as a symbol of office b : an office, position, or role assumed by or as if by the wearing of a special hat <wore many hats in her career>

 

cap

Pronunciation: 'kap

Function: noun

Usage: often attributive

Etymology: Middle English cappe, from Old English cæppe, from Late Latin cappa head covering, cloak

1 a : a head covering especially with a visor and no brim b : a distinctive head covering emblematic of a position or office: as (1) : a cardinal's biretta (2) : MORTARBOARD

 

The only difference between a hat and cap is that a cap has no brim, while a hat does, along with a shaped crown.

 

Etiguette rules for hats and caps are identical.

[KeystoneCruiser]

I have to agree with Surfgirl. We just returned from the May 20 Pearl to Alaska. For dinner at Cagney's my husband and son wore dress pants with long sleeve buttoned up shirts-I wore a skirt and heels. We sat in view of a table full of elderly people and ALL of them were in warm up suits. The kind with strips down the sides of the legs. I was a little offended, because Cagney's is a nice restaurant and does deem a dress code of sorts. It does kind of spoil the ambience. Besides, the side at the entrance clearly states no track suits.

 

Hey, I know it's Alaska and I know it's cold, but come on...

 

When we did Alaska on the Star, I too saw a warm-up suit. A family came in on the optional formal night, the kids were in jeans and t-shirts, the father in a sweatsuit and the wife in one of those nylon warm-up suits. Although I have seen nylon warm-up suits in the restaurants at other times, it is the only time that I have seen a sweatsuit in one on a cruise.....must be something about Alaska...lol.

 

But in all seriousness, we have discussed on these boards, that NCL is sometimes hit and miss with their dress code enforcement. Some have reported people being turned away while others (including myself and you), have reported people being allowed to dine in obvious violations of the dress code. We have come to the conclusion that sometimes the crew is afraid to confront rule benders for fear of negative comments and creating a scene.

 

I believe that NCL's dress code is very fair and provides passengers with a good array of dressing options. Although I have never dressed up on a cruise beyond a polo shirt and nice pants, I have also never been lower than the "resort casual" code. I think all people should at least follow that reasonable minimum request. While I don't think people should dress below the code, I also don't like it when people try to scare or coierce people into dressing up on NCL cruises just because "it spoils the ambiance." (As far as ambiance, Cagney's is no different than any other restaurant on the ship and so no additional dress code is needed.)

 

The last time I dined, what the people were wearing at the next table was of no matter to me nor did it ruin the ambiance of my dinner. My ambiance is dictated by the people I am sitting with and the conversations that we are having! People should stop worrying about what everybody else is doing and worry only about themselves!

[electricron]

When we did Alaska on the Star, I too saw a warm-up suit. A family came in on the optional formal night, the kids were in jeans and t-shirts, the father in a sweatsuit and the wife in one of those nylon warm-up suits. Although I have seen nylon warm-up suits in the restaurants at other times, it is the only time that I have seen a sweatsuit in one on a cruise.....must be something about Alaska...lol.

 

But in all seriousness, we have discussed on these boards, that NCL is sometimes hit and miss with their dress code enforcement. Some have reported people being turned away while others (including myself and you), have reported people being allowed to dine in obvious violations of the dress code. We have come to the conclusion that sometimes the crew is afraid to confront rule benders for fear of negative comments and creating a scene.

 

I believe that NCL's dress code is very fair and provides passengers with a good array of dressing options. Although I have never dressed up on a cruise beyond a polo shirt and nice pants, I have also never been lower than the "resort casual" code. I think all people should at least follow that reasonable minimum request. While I don't think people should dress below the code, I also don't like it when people try to scare or coierce people into dressing up on NCL cruises just because "it spoils the ambiance." (As far as ambiance, Cagney's is no different than any other restaurant on the ship and so no additional dress code is needed.)

 

The last time I dined, what the people were wearing at the next table was of no matter to me nor did it ruin the ambiance of my dinner. My ambiance is dictated by the people I am sitting with and the conversations that we are having! People should stop worrying about what everybody else is doing and worry only about themselves!

 

I agree with you wholeheartly, keep your busy nose out of my vacation.

[halos]

I understand how people feel about ambiance. When I'm on a cruise with Traditional Dining, it's a little displeasing to see people come to the dining room in casual clothing on formal nights...this is why the whole Freestyle Concept seemed odd to me. If you're going to tell people they can dress casual on a formal night, and you have a mix of suits/tuxes and dockers with polos, why bother having a formal night at all?? To me, formal only feels formal when EVERYONE does it, but that's just me. I'd feel awkward wearing a gown and having women with capris around me. So when I cruise on a more traditional ship, we pack the tux and the gowns, but when we sail NCL for the first time this Nov, we're not going to bother with them.

 

As far as seeing people totally blow off the dress code by wearing sweats and jeans, it goes to show you, even if you lower the bar and allow people some freedom to be casual, they still will push it further.

[Surfgirl]

But I don't have to, becuase NCL has "Freestyle Cruising and Dining", where "Resort Casual" dress is always appropriate.

 

Of course, I could sail on Cunard's Queen Mary 2 where "Formal" dress is always appropriate. Take your pick, I chose mine, and it's NCL.

 

No, you don't have to agree with me.

 

But, alas, you are distorting the conversation. Nobody is talking about formal dress. We were talking about jeans and baseball caps in the dining rooms.

 

Resort casual (nice pants or skirts and tops, and pretty sun dresses for the women) (khaki pants, button down shirts for the men). That's hardly formal.

 

I like NCL, thank you. But, you know.. since you're trying to make judgements about which cruiseline is right for me, I'll make a suggestion to you. Maybe Windjammer Barefoot Cruises is more up your alley. Dressing for dinner on a WBC simply means putting on a clean t-shirt.

[Surfgirl]

Thanks, Halos. You said it better than me!

[electricron]

No, you don't have to agree with me.

 

But, alas, you are distorting the conversation. Nobody is talking about formal dress. We were talking about jeans and baseball caps in the dining rooms.

 

Resort casual (nice pants or skirts and tops, and pretty sun dresses for the women) (khaki pants, button down shirts for the men). That's hardly formal.

 

I like NCL, thank you. But, you know.. since you're trying to make judgements about which cruiseline is right for me, I'll make a suggestion to you. Maybe Windjammer Barefoot Cruises is more up your alley. Dressing for dinner on a WBC simply means putting on a clean t-shirt.

 

But I replied to baseball caps as well, if not on this thread, on another. Baseball caps follow the same etiquette rules as derby hats. Jeans are perfectly okay with ships sailing from Houston (Texas), they should be perfectly okay from anywhere else too.

 

Fashions change, please don't leave proper attire at pre World War I or II era. CQ is the American male fashion authority today, has been for several decades. You are decades behind the times, fashion wise.

[jentroubles]

pretty sun dresses for the women--- sorry.....NOT a barbie and that is NOT my vacation. I outgrew playing dress up years ago.

 

I also outgrew the need dress to impress others. I will wear what I am comfortable in-- which will never be 'formal' dress.

 

So to all who insist on judging others by what they wear-- feel free to snort at my outfit in the dining room and roll your eyes :p I'll be enjoying my meal and will pay no mind to you !

[Surfgirl]

pretty sun dresses for the women--- sorry.....NOT a barbie and that is NOT my vacation. I outgrew playing dress up years ago.

 

I also outgrew the need dress to impress others. I will wear what I am comfortable in-- which will never be 'formal' dress.

 

So to all who insist on judging others by what they wear-- feel free to snort at my outfit in the dining room and roll your eyes :p I'll be enjoying my meal and will pay no mind to you !

 

Gee, I didn't know sundresses were formal wear :rolleyes:

 

How sad for you that you don't take pride in your appearance. :(

[Cosmopolitan]

pretty sun dresses for the women--- sorry.....NOT a barbie and that is NOT my vacation. I outgrew playing dress up years ago.

 

I also outgrew the need dress to impress others. I will wear what I am comfortable in-- which will never be 'formal' dress.

 

So to all who insist on judging others by what they wear-- feel free to snort at my outfit in the dining room and roll your eyes :p I'll be enjoying my meal and will pay no mind to you !

 

Sundresses? Sorry, haven't heard that term since I fell off my dinosaur:)

 

Need to impress:confused: Impress who?

It takes a lot more than dress to impress me.

 

Jentroubles...you got it right..FREESTYLE:)

 

Isn't it only pigs that snort :-)

[Surfgirl]

Sundresses? Sorry, haven't heard that term since I fell off my dinosaur:)

 

 

Guess nobody in your family has been shopping lately:)

 

http://www1.talbots.com/talbotsonline/product/itempage.aspx?BID=&item=M84787&h=M

 

http://www1.bloomingdales.com/catalog/product/index.ognc?b=0&ID=87474&CategoryID=3401&PseudoCat=b.comSearch&PageID=http%3A%2F%2Fsearch%2Ebloomingdales%2Ecom%2Fexec%2F%3Fq%3Dsundress%26u1%3Dq%26pdp%5Fnav%3D1%26n%3D1

 

http://www.saksfifthavenue.com/main/ProductDetail.jsp?FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=282574491577357&PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524446158012&R=713259413636&P_name=Eileen+Fisher&sid=112E0461926A&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=1408474395222441&bmUID=1180583735663

 

http://shop.nordstrom.com/S/2932671?Category=&Search=True&SearchType=keywordsearch&keyword=sundress+in+All+Categories&origin=searchresults

[Surfgirl]

But I replied to baseball caps as well, if not on this thread, on another. Baseball caps follow the same etiquette rules as derby hats. Jeans are perfectly okay with ships sailing from Houston (Texas), they should be perfectly okay from anywhere else too.

 

Fashions change, please don't leave proper attire at pre World War I or II era. CQ is the American male fashion authority today, has been for several decades. You are decades behind the times, fashion wise.

 

Jeans are not OK in a nice restaurant. They never were, and they still aren't. Nor are baseball hats.

 

Yes, GC is the American male fashion authority today. I bring your attention to #5:

 

5. BRING BACK THE DRESS CODE

I’m sick of putting on a jacket to go out to dinner and finding myself surrounded by velour tracksuits. At the very least, announce your lack of standards with a sign: we welcome slobs.

 

http://men.style.com/gq/features/full?id=content_4194

[Host CMLA]

Hi guys...As ALL of you know, this debate comes up a few times a month and the same people state their same arguments over and over. It never resolves anything and the thread usually has to go because of the nastiness. It is possible to state your opinion of the dress code without passing judgment on everyone else. Please, let's not fight or name call...thanks.

[Duff Man]

Why do you keep asking that question, when those of us who do care have answered it? Again... the answer is... Because it ruins the ambiance of the dining experience.

I don't know if ambiance is the right word, but I know exactly what you are trying to say Surfgirl.

 

Look at it this way. When you go to a place like Cagneys or Bistro, what does the restaurant itself look like? Do they have plain tables without tablecloths? Plastic dinner ware & ugly plates? Bare walls? NO! The restaurant is intentionally made to look nice, dare I say classy? So why shouldn't the guests? I agree that a poorly dressed group detracts from that. Otherwise just make it a cafeteria. I wouldn't let a poorly dressed group bother me, but there is a point to what Surfgirl says.

 

To me, dress also is also meant to show respect. Today you don't see that.

 

As for baseball caps, in many U.S. cities they are prohibited from schools, bars, nightclubs, etc. because particular hats or colors may be considered gang affiliations. Sadly.

[Don Haynes]

I think its funny that so many are expecting men to wear formal of 50 years ago whereas women aren't. In 1950 a woman wasn't considered a lady unless she wore a hat, as much as a man wasn't a gentlemen unless he wore a hat.

 

Times have changes and fashion has too.

 

Since the host, NCL chose not to require formal and or semi formal attire, resort casual is okay in their dining rooms. And since blue jeans and caps are considered resort casual by NCL, what is the beef?

 

Since many of the other cruise lines are bending their rules, and won't come out and change them outright, I say bravo for NCL. Finally, at least NCL says what their dress policy is.