Cruise Lines Stopping Agent Discounting!!??!!

[Susie]

I'm concerned about several cruise agent e-mails I've received recently indicating that Carnival, Royal Caribbean and Celebrity are mandating that their agents stop their discounting to their customers. This is very disturbing and would seem to end up having a very negative impact on the cruise lines by increasing the prices of what customers are paying. I receive many e-mails from various agencies weekly and I am alarmed at this recent news. I spoke to one agent and was told that after this Friday, August 13, they must stop discounting or they will be retaliated against by the cruise line. If I had only seen it from one agency, I wouldn't be so alarmed but I've seen it several places now. I don't know the specifics of how the agency will be impacted by the cruise line if they do offer discounts to customers but this results in the cruise line's "bread and butter" (the cruiser) incurring much higher prices. We already experience so many additional fees and now this! Comments anyone?

 

Thanks for your input on this important topic to all avid cruisers!!!!

[nosnobunny]

Their new mandate will most certainly be changing my future plans. I have two cruises booked for 2005 and that's the end. After that it will be land vacations for me. I'm very weary of the games they're playing. :(

 

Beth

[lunyma]

Yes, it is true that cruiselines have new regulations for agencies, but it is not directly against discounting. The new regulations prohibit the agencies from PUBLISHING prices that are lower than cruiseline offerings. You can still call or email an agency for a quote, and it may or may not be lower than their published price. As for the agencies that are sending out emails saying that they will no longer be allowed to discount (I've gotten a few myself), It's a scare tactic, to get you to book and commit soon. I mentioned this on the RCCL board, and I'll say it again here. I would NOT want to do business with an agency that is attemting to scare the public with innacurate news, so that their bookings will rise at this time.

[Nitemare]

There are some lengthy and well researched posts on this subject on the cruiseline boards here. I know the Celebrity board has some great information if you'd like to catch up on folks' research.

[Susie]

Thanks! I didn't realize I was bringing up something that had already been discussed at length. I'll check for the other threads.

[kitty9]

The cruise lines are trying to protect their product from being devalued by the low-ball internet agencies. My TA has said that the cruise lines are only trying to level the playing field between the regular full service agencies and the internet agencies. The new rules don't mean you can't have a creative agent who will do special things for their clients. The cruise lines also want to stop what's known as agent hopping---that's where a client will go to different agencies or internets, pit one against the other in terms of price, and then book with whomever gives up more of their commission.

 

And if you think the internet agencies will try and get away with posting the same prices that the cruise lines publishes and then give huge discounts over the phone, think again. The cruise lines will most likely have "moles" who will book with internet agencies and will report to the cruise lines which agencies are low-balling the prices. Then the cruise lines will blackball those agencies and refuse to book anything from that agency.

[fodorspeter]

Agencies are prohibited from "advertising" rates different than the cruise line standard pricing. This doesn't mean that when you talk to an agent that they can't give up part of their commission. It does mean, however, that any rates refered to on websites or search engine results must be the standard cruise line pricing. This will level the playing field between the "brick and mortar" agencies, the online agencies and the cruise lines themselves.

 

In my opinion, this is just the first step towards eliminating cruises from the travel agents portfolio similar to what has happened with airline, hotel and rental car bookings. Direct booking cruises in a year or two will be as common as direct line booking airline flights, hotel rooms and rental cars. The next step will be eliminating commissions for cruises as the airlines did with their commissions.

 

Travel agents will be reduced to servicing an ever-shrinking population that doesn't know how to or trust the computer online booking process. Young people today wouldn't even think to call a TA to book airfare, hotels or rental cars. They probably don't even know that's how we had to do it ten years ago.

 

Peter

[nosnobunny]

Peter I think you've hit the nail on the head. Airlines did this several years ago. I believe this is only the first step to price increases across the board, not just RCCL.

 

Beth

[wwinfl91]

It is too bad we can't all get together and do something to stop this trend but I suspect it is too late. With only two really major cruise companies, Carnival and all its lines and RCL they almost have a monopoly on the market and it is only a question of time before they started tightening the screws on us.

 

Hopefully it won't get as bad as the airline industry. Especially since my wife and I really liked to cruise.

 

Talk at you all later.

[bUU]

There is no reason to think that this will result in any increase to fares. It didn't in the airline industry, where fares were relatively unaffected by commission changes. I just paid $143 for two people roundtrip, Providence to Philadelphia. That's about the lowest it has ever been. Pretty impressive given the incredible increases in costs to provide air carrier service, due to 9/11 security and sky-rocketing fuel costs.

[momofmeg]

It is too bad we can't all get together and do something to stop this trend but I suspect it is too late. With only two really major cruise companies, Carnival and all its lines and RCL they almost have a monopoly on the market and it is only a question of time before they started tightening the screws on us.

 

Hopefully it won't get as bad as the airline industry. Especially since my wife and I really liked to cruise.

 

Talk at you all later.

Five airlines are in major trouble. Only three will probally survive possibly 2. We are airline employees so I know-these lines can't lower their prices because they are going under. Lines like air Tran survive because they pay their employees substantually less and benefits like health insurance are pitiful.

 

I can understand why Delta gripes about paying their pilots $190,000 a year when they only actually fly about 20 hours a week, but still if you have ever been in a thunderstorm on a plane-can see nothing as the fog is so thick, could not even see the airport until you are like a foot off the ground on the runway and that pilot is able to land you safely then you feel he is worth every penney and then more.

[nosnobunny]

If you want to see what a monopoly does to any industry, come to Canada and take a look at Air Canada. :mad: They've had a monopoly for years, have exhorbitant prices and are still in financial trouble. I'm lucky. We live near the border and either drive all the way to Florida or to a US airport in Buffalo or Detroit for much less expensive flights.

 

Beth

[fodorspeter]

in the long run. Yes, some airlines are in trouble - but the demand for air travel remains high and only the low cost providers should survive. This is pure competition at its best and the result will be good for all travelers.

 

Cruises need to go thru the same process. The way it is today, the competition is amongst the travel agencies trying to maneuver pricing to get the business. This is too confusing for the travelers. Eliminate the middle-men (TA's) and allow the cruise lines to compete with one another. Put the price out there for an inside cabin on an Eastern Caribbean sailing for Princess, RCCL, Celebrity, Carnival, etc. and let the traveler decide without having to hunt for the lowest RCCL fare, or the lowest Carnival fare. This, then, reduces the decision to service, food, cabin size, etc. - those things that should differentiate the competition.

 

In this day and age, travel agents provide nothing to the economic equation and that cost (commissions) needs to be eliminated.

 

Peter

[bUU]

TAs used to provide a valuable service. Now the ones that do cannot make any profit on doing so, because folks take their business to electronic booking agents that don't provide such high-cost value-added service.

[spongerob]

It sounds like some agencies are starting a misinformation campaign. Consumers will do as they have always done - vote with their wallets.

[fideauxdon]

From what I've seen this week, I've become convinced that some TAs are using the new mandates to push up their sales significantly in the near term. I've received emails that blatantly state that there won't be any more discounts, so I better book now. However, the agency that I usually use has quietly explained, via it's website, how they will provide cost information in the future, and it seems to me that the discounts will be essentially what they are now.

 

For my part, I'll tell my friends why they shouldn't deal with the "sky is falling" merchants of doom.

[Kami's pal]

I prefer the services of my Ta. She knows all the regulations, my preferences, my history, and hopes. She makes suggestions, I do research, ask questions, and she takes care of details. Plus, she's available, or others in her office are, if things go badly. She's a real voice that doesn't put me on hold, ask me to chose from a menue of options none of which address the problem, question or need that I immediately have. I still use her even to book the very inexpensive WEST Jet flights here in Canada. And because I do buiness exclusively with her, she's willing to forego commission on that item. Yes, perhaps on an $8000 CND trip, I might pay 2 or 3 hundred more than if I booked it all myself, or through cruise line, but I trust her. Cruise lines have not earned my trust. I am still waiting for replies to 2 emails I sent to HAL!

[lunyma]

The cruise lines are trying to protect their product from being devalued by the low-ball internet agencies. My TA has said that the cruise lines are only trying to level the playing field between the regular full service agencies and the internet agencies. The new rules don't mean you can't have a creative agent who will do special things for their clients. The cruise lines also want to stop what's known as agent hopping---that's where a client will go to different agencies or internets, pit one against the other in terms of price, and then book with whomever gives up more of their commission.

 

And if you think the internet agencies will try and get away with posting the same prices that the cruise lines publishes and then give huge discounts over the phone, think again. The cruise lines will most likely have "moles" who will book with internet agencies and will report to the cruise lines which agencies are low-balling the prices. Then the cruise lines will blackball those agencies and refuse to book anything from that agency.

 

Read Peter's post, Darcie. He explained it best...

[lunyma]

From what I've seen this week, I've become convinced that some TAs are using the new mandates to push up their sales significantly in the near term. I've received emails that blatantly state that there won't be any more discounts, so I better book now. However, the agency that I usually use has quietly explained, via it's website, how they will provide cost information in the future, and it seems to me that the discounts will be essentially what they are now.

 

For my part, I'll tell my friends why they shouldn't deal with the "sky is falling" merchants of doom.

 

 

I totally agree, and I will NOT do business with a company that makes unwarranted *threats*!

[curly4dana]

i'd just like to add my 2 cents in here, if y'all don't mind. a few of my cruise friends mentioned a few emails they'd gotten regarding the discount/no discount policy. i'm with peter!!! if my t/a told me i'd better book now or i won't get the "good" rates...i'd dump her in a heartbeat. i'm a former t/a...before the airlines dumped us and everyone went to the internet. i was THE only way for people to book anything, much less get any information on their destinations.

 

i frequently book on my own with the cruise lines, because we usually make split second decisions. i then turn my pkg. over to my t/a to handle to details. as for hotels and air...i'm afraid i use the internet. i feel for the brick and mortar agencies, due to the flux of cyber agencies, but don't try using the scare tactic on me!

i'm with peter all the way!!!

[Susie]

I've been reading the two diffirent cruise message boards about the recent announcements from Carnival and RCL. There seems to be a distinct difference in what Carnival is limiting (adverstising) and what RCL is limiting (advertising and rebating/discounting). The quoted statements from RCL make it clear that they will not tolerate rebating to the consumer. The RCL statements were confirmed by that board's originator who is a highly regarded cruise authority.

 

I've gotten a quote this week on an RCL cruise for next year (it is only $25/person more than I paid in 2002 for a Voyager class ship, exact same cabin - I was surprised by that). I plan to check over the next few weeks to see what happens to that price going forward. With any luck, maybe all of the anxiety over this will have been for nothing.

[fodorspeter]

is a little suspect. I have yet to see in black and white where RCCL has definitively said they will "manage" to no discounts or rebates. They may have indicated that they will monitor advertising and take action against agencies that don't comply - but I seriously doubt that they will attemp the impossible - monitor actual net prices paid by the traveller.

 

Besides, as I pointed out on the other board, Carnival will lead the pricing policies as they are the market share leader. If Kelloggs puts toys in their children's cereal, so do the rest. We will get to pure competition with cruises just as with airfare. We'll log on, check the boxes and decide which cruise line to use based on their product quality (food, service, entertainment, etc.) instead of getting confused by going thru agents. God bless free trade.

 

Peter

[Susie]

but what do I know?

 

I think the current method of shopping for cruises is a real pain. I HATE having to call or request quotes from numerous agencies before I can proceed with a booking. I ALWAYS wonder if I'm getting a good deal or not. Having the internet available to monitor pricing has helped a great deal.

 

When I'm at dinner on a cruise, the last thing I want to talk about is who paid what. Who wants to walk away feeling like they were way over charged for their vacation?

 

Time will certainly tell and it will be interesting to watch. Fortunately, I'm booked for my next three cruises so I won't have to be too concerned about this for a while.

[bUU]

I'm with you, Susie.

[momofmeg]

in the long run. Yes, some airlines are in trouble - but the demand for air travel remains high and only the low cost providers should survive. This is pure competition at its best and the result will be good for all travelers.

 

Cruises need to go thru the same process. The way it is today, the competition is amongst the travel agencies trying to maneuver pricing to get the business. This is too confusing for the travelers. Eliminate the middle-men (TA's) and allow the cruise lines to compete with one another. Put the price out there for an inside cabin on an Eastern Caribbean sailing for Princess, RCCL, Celebrity, Carnival, etc. and let the traveler decide without having to hunt for the lowest RCCL fare, or the lowest Carnival fare. This, then, reduces the decision to service, food, cabin size, etc. - those things that should differentiate the competition.

 

In this day and age, travel agents provide nothing to the economic equation and that cost (commissions) needs to be eliminated.

 

Peter

 

Problem is if you have a good education and making a substandard wage with lousy benefits you will go elsewhere when you get a better job offer- so WHO do you think will be flying those planes? Personally I want someone THAT KNOWS what he or she is doing. That also goes for the other jobs. Don't you want a QUALIFIED mechanic checking out the plane you are flying on? I do.

 

Sadly since Sept. 11 and all the security that is done now makes flying costs much more expensive. The airlines have also been hit with the sky-high fuel costs. Yes some will be survive but all the airlines will basially be flying greyhounds-no frills-just a seat. I still want the pilots to be well qualified and also the mechanics. Some things I can do with out-hey I will even brown bag it for a longer flight if necessary-that is fine and I will even deal with having a cramped up seat but I want the pilot and mechanics to be qualified.